109 réponses à ce sujet

[ladydesire]

Upper_Krust wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Upper_Krust wrote...

However, I should point out that the changes I am suggesting would not alienate casual gamers at all, because I am not asking for greater difficulty for combat, simply greater variety to combat.

That greater variety would do exactly that, simply because some folks already have trouble with the game on the easiest setting,

The ability to complete the game on 'easy' difficulty, can still be balanced to 'be' easy.

Just like a monsters statistical differences between difficulty levels, so can any tactical mechanics we introduce.

For example. I have suggested that Hurlocks attack in a phalanx, gaining a defense/armor bonus for each Hurlock adjacent to the hurlock you attack. If that defense/armor bonus is +2 on normal, +3 on hard and +5 on nightmare, it might only be +0.5 on easy.

I think you're missing the point I was making; if you alter a monster's tactics like you suggest, there are going to be people that have even more trouble with the game on the easy setting than they already do. I spent what seemed like 45 minutes the other night trying to figure out how to beat an Arcane Horror that had a pretty large party of Undead in the area, on easy; I finally had to zoom out to the tactical view to see get a good enough field of view to figure out how to beat him (I play on PC).

or expect the normal setting in DA to be like the normal setting in any other RPG they have played.

I fail to see how that could really be judged. Difficulty is as much subjective as objective.

Also in Dragon Age, you can change the difficulty at ANY stage of the game.

Didn't Bioware say themselves that Normal was somewhat more difficult than what a similar setting in other RPGs was?

I recall someone saying earlier in this thread that it shouldn't be possible to set the party AI up in such a way that it could defeat the monters AI; however, what is overlooked is that the monster AI in this game only have maybe 5 tactics slots the entire game whereas your party ends up with around 25 tactics slots by the end of the game.

The monsters have as many tactics slots as Bioware want to give them.

It varies from 5 to 11, from what I've seen in the Excel files that come with the toolset. And there are quite a few times that I have seen Hurlocks use their shields, though not in the way that you've suggested.

They also likely only have a fraction of the abilities that members of your party do.

Yet another reason why each monster ability should be as unique as possible.

In other words, you want the monsters to be able to throw things at you that aren't easily countered; I can understand that, but at the same time I realize that Bioware doesn't want to design a game where the abilities don't fit with the lore, which is likely why you don't see Darkspawn using advanced combat tactics like a phalanx. Maybe they will add these in the Expansion, though.

[Feraele]

There was an article posted in another thread..in regards to the making of DA:O 2, and that the Devs are working on making things even better than DA:O the original. Guess we'll have to wait to see what that is.


http://social.biowar.../9/index/922541

Modifié par Feraele, 03 février 2010 - 12:45 .

[Feraele]

Also..have been thinking for awhile now..to appease the gamers that find nightmare easy street..that Bioware could maybe develop an new difficulty level? How about "Hell on wheels" difficulty level. hehe

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again ladydesire! :-)

ladydesire wrote...

I think you're missing the point I was making; if you alter a monster's tactics like you suggest, there are going to be people that have even more trouble with the game on the easy setting than they already do.

Not if we balance any changes.

Something that might make a massive difference at nightmare, might only have a tiny or inconsequential difference at easy difficulty.

For instance, lets take the same game played at the four difficulty levels...and lets add a single monster to the same encounter.

Base encounter...Revenent + 4 Skeletons

On easy lets add... one extra skeleton
On normal lets add... one arcane horror
On hard lets add... one extra revenant
On nightmare lets add... one high dragon

The difference in difficulty to someone playing on easy might well be comparable to that of someone playing on nightmare.

Now I am not suggesting have more monsters or tougher monsters in different difficulties, no. My point above was simply to illustrate that something which might make an encounter much more challenging at nightmare, when scaled down and balanced for easy, may only make a tiny difference.

I spent what seemed like 45 minutes the other night trying to figure out how to beat an Arcane Horror that had a pretty large party of Undead in the area, on easy; I finally had to zoom out to the tactical view to see get a good enough field of view to figure out how to beat him (I play on PC).

Sounds like an epic battle indeed. One to tell the grandkids. I had several battles like that in the game, the Sloth Demon kicked my butt for over an hour as I recall.

Didn't Bioware say themselves that Normal was somewhat more difficult than what a similar setting in other RPGs was?

I honestly couldn't tell you. I'm unfamiliar with such a quote.

It varies from 5 to 11, from what I've seen in the Excel files that come with the toolset. And there are quite a few times that I have seen Hurlocks use their shields, though not in the way that you've suggested.

Frankly, with what I'm suggesting I doubt I would require more than 5. Though it might require a new sort of custom tactic and/or formation tactic.

"Hurlock gains [insert bonus] to [insert statistic] when adjacent to another Hurlock."
Behaviour: Defensive
Formation: Square (allied Hurlocks)

"Shriek gains [insert bonus] to [insert statistic] for each additional Shriek attacking the same target."
Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: Swarm (allied Shrieks)...first Shriek attack nearest enemy, all other Shrieks attack the same enemy. 

"Genlock uses [insert grenade type] if targets in blast zone outnumber friendly fire"
"Genlock has 2 grenades"
Behaviour: Cautious
Formation: Solitary

"Skeleton gains [insert bonus] to [insert statistic] until the skeleton standard bearer is destroyed"
"If the Skeleton standard Bearer is destroyed the nearest remaining skeleton will move to that spot, whereupon 'he' becomes a Skeleton Standard Bearer" 
Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: Skirmish

"Dwarf gains [insert bonus] to [insert statistic] when adjacent to another dwarf"
Behaviour: Defensive
Formation: Line (allied Dwarves)

ie. the idea here being that Dwarves gain a massive physical resistance bonus to being pushed or knocked down. So that they could block a corridor while allies attack from behind using xbows and ballista.

"Hurlock Alpha uses [insert potion] when reduced to 50% Health"
"Hurlock Alpha has 1 potion"
Behaviour: Defensive
Formation: Square (Hurlocks)

ie. If you stun the Hurlock Alpha, knock him down or take him out really quickly, you get the potion. Otherwise he uses it.

"Rage Demon gains [insert bonus] to strength when reduced to <75% Health"
"Rage Demon gains [insert bonus] to strength when reduced to <50% Health"
"Rage Demon gains [insert bonus] to strength when reduced to <25% Health"
"Rage demon explodes as a fireball when reduced to 0 Health"
Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: None...Attacks Nearest Enemy

Something like that.

In other words, you want the monsters to be able to throw things at you that aren't easily countered; I can understand that,

Could be something thats easily countered, or you might even counter it without knowing it (see Hurlock Alpha above)

but at the same time I realize that Bioware doesn't want to design a game where the abilities don't fit with the lore, which is likely why you don't see Darkspawn using advanced combat tactics like a phalanx. Maybe they will add these in the Expansion, though.

If not the Hurlocks (although I think its a good fit myself to the lore) then Human Soldiers or Dwarves.

Modifié par Upper_Krust, 03 février 2010 - 01:18 .

[bconk55]

EJ42 wrote...

Upper_Krust wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Having tactical elements does not make the game a tactical fight simulator.

You calling this game a tactical fight simulator is about like me calling Galaga a flight simulator.

Actually I never called it a tactical fight simulator, you did.

I said that combat was a big part of the game (you spend about a third of the game in combat) and 'that' combat is inherently tactical, as all single player games where you control a party of characters must be.

It is what it is.  Stop trying to make it be something else.

I fail to see why you deny the tactical aspect of the game? Do you also deny that in the game you can preset a companions 'tactics'?

You may want the game to be chess, but it's designed to be checkers (at best).  You need to learn to accept that.  This game is about storytelling, not about an incredible tactical challenge.

If you want that, then play RTS games.

The inclusion of tactics and multiple abilities (especially for mages) at the very least gives the illusion of an attempt at chess. They may have only reached checkers, but to say this game is designed as checkers seems to ignore things like tactics and spells that are designed to be used in conjunction. It also assumes an equality between design intention and design achievement, which I would argue is not the case, again, unless the inclusion of these features were just meant to be superficial.

[DN190]

Well for me personally I never played a game like this one. So it took me like 30+ hours to figure things out. And I've been playing on casual and I think it's a decent challenge being that I've never really knew how things used to work and stuff. But it's a really cool game when I figured things out, how to use items, how to compare armor, weapons, having conversations w/ my buddies etc. So yeah I didn't think it was too easy, but there's ways to make things more challenging though so no need to worry.

[DraconisCombine]

Kaoschizm wrote...


Unbind pause and play the entire game in real time, if that doesn't work then solo, if that doesn't work then solo naked, if that's still too easy then move to Korea and become a pro-gamer.

LMAO!Priceless!It reminds me what i said to friend of mine who died in nightmare level hardcore mode in Diablo 2.I said "What part of "Diablos minions grow stronger" did you not understand?The point being that he was able to solo nightmare mode,but forget the minions are stronger with a another player in the world with him.

If the games too easy time to move along to the next i guess.Better yet download the toolset and tailor a few levels so it is difficult.This is best if someone you know does it since you will probably slant it to your favor.Just saying...

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Don't mean to dredge this up again, but curious what you think of this solution to the difficulty debate.

http://social.biowar.../9/index/940802

[ccconda]

develop the mod and then get our feedback.

[Viz79]

Im afraid I have the same problem - the game is currently far too easy on nightmare and most fights are not even a challenge. This is my first go as well - Im hoping someone will have made a difficulty mod for my second playthrough. Either that or Ill try with no mages or something!



I can't imagine any BG/Planescape player that won't feel the same - simply those games required a high strategy level and combinations of spells and tactics to survive. If only DA reached those levels, it would be immensely satisfying.