77 réponses à ce sujet

[Volourn]

"Every time I offer to help someone out she comes up with something snarky to say"



That's not true. There are certain times where she does approve of helping others. A good example is at the often talked about Recliffe with Jowan. She approves if you let him go.



Sometimes she can come across asbeing petty or evil; but that's not really true. It's more like being bias and hating those who hate her. It's a nasty cycle. The Circle/Chantry and their follows label free mages like Morrigan has evil beasts to be hunted down and murdered. In turn, she doesn't feel the need to protect them or kiss their butt. Why should she care about the fate of those who would gladly turn her into a robot (The Circle), or help a cowardly old geezer (the weaponsmith in Redcliffe) who won't even fight to save his own hometown because he's crying over his missing daughter when the town needs saving.





"sweet talk in camp and throw some shiny gifts"



You want to know what's funny about this? The three gifts she gets the biggest boosts for our two books for her personal quest, and a mirror that is a sappy reminder of her lost childhood. Not exactly 'evil'. Or shallow.



I honestly believe Morrigan is not only BIO's best character ever; but best written. Period. Totally awesome.

[MassEffect762]

The intrigue is that she cannot be turned not that shes "all that and a bag of chips".

Add in the "fresh" realism and this is the result.

The forbidden fruit effect if you will.

*Cough* Cash cow *Cough*

Modifié par MassEffect762, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:23 .

[Akka le Vil]

The problem with Morrigan is that she seems to basically just wait for a pretext to pout.
She's completely contradictory, hypocrite and in denial, and has MASSIVE penalties each time you aren't a yes-man to what she wants to hear at that moment - even if what you say is logical and practical, but her hidden needy side was waiting for you to be nice (but only at the second question, because at the third you have to be ruthless otherwise you're "weak").
I'm trying to play the really practical, ruthless guy, and I still have to meta-game to get her approval up.

She is laden with double-standard and contradiction, very immature and hypocrite. And despite all this, she LECTURES you
Seriously, Morrigan, deal with your issues and get a bit of consistency before trying to teach other about what they should do.

Armiece wrote...

Personally, I found her to be an immature twit who needed to get her pedestal kicked out from under her a couple of times.

I'm also rather bemused by the fact that while there's a decent amount of complaining on these forums about Alistair being whiny...in my gameplay experience, Morrigan was far, far more likely to complain. I guess boobs let you get away with anything.

Yeah, quite right. A man can't be sad for having his father figure killed, it's "whiny", but a girl in revealing outfit can be a needy, hypocrital b*tch in denial and not only get away with it, but be praised for being "a strong woman". Wow.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:25 .

[Malkut]

I don't know why people have a problem with Morrigan. There are a million-billion gifts for her and every conversation gives you points if you just nod your head and agree with her while being noncommittal. I've gotten her into bed right out of Lothering.

[Volourn]

Considering that Morrigan has a 'mother' who wants to take her body over (and who knows who or *what* her father is), it's not like she has any baggae. Just listen to her childhood stories. The difference between the two is that Allistar comes off as whining when talking about hsi tragic past (just ask him to be king) then talk to Morrigan about, say, Flemeth breaking her cherished mirror or when the templars have tried to kill her in the past. Not whining just matter of fact. Even when she finds out her mother's plans for, she doesn't cry about it, she goes about doing something about it.



And, I disagreed with Morrigan quite a bit, and I didn't get major penalties for it. In fact, the only times I would get penalties was when I had some fan after svaing and decided to insult her repeatedly like asking her why she was here. Otherwise, the penalties are very minor, and like I said about, she even approved more than once when I went to help someone.





"The forbidden fruit effect if you will."



But, she isn't. In fact, she makes that very clear. However, it's clear that she feels more than she wants to and isn't happy about largely because of her upbringing no doubt.

[Flash Aron]

... ha made that she loved me (friendly, adore, love),

had sex with her and

kicked her away ...



telling her, sex with Leliana is more fun :-)



anyway ... with all that shiny gifts, had both girls at +100 till the end ... but of course Morrigan only friendly after I broke up with her ...

Needed a lot more time to get Leilana into bed and from adore to love ...



strange they don't have problems when you try all girls in the perl, only -1 per session :-O

[Ahisgewaya]

Volourn wrote...

Considering that Morrigan has a 'mother' who wants to take her body over (and who knows who or *what* her father is), it's not like she has any baggae. Just listen to her childhood stories. The difference between the two is that Allistar comes off as whining when talking about hsi tragic past (just ask him to be king) then talk to Morrigan about, say, Flemeth breaking her cherished mirror or when the templars have tried to kill her in the past. Not whining just matter of fact. Even when she finds out her mother's plans for, she doesn't cry about it, she goes about doing something about it.

And, I disagreed with Morrigan quite a bit, and I didn't get major penalties for it. In fact, the only times I would get penalties was when I had some fan after svaing and decided to insult her repeatedly like asking her why she was here. Otherwise, the penalties are very minor, and like I said about, she even approved more than once when I went to help someone.


"The forbidden fruit effect if you will."

But, she isn't. In fact, she makes that very clear. However, it's clear that she feels more than she wants to and isn't happy about largely because of her upbringing no doubt.

Exactly. Morrigan is someone with a LOT of baggage and a very Real sort of character if you get to know her. Everyone who hates her seems to be forgetting that she was RAISED BY A FREAKING MONSTER! In the sense of her mother being evil AND her mother being an inhuman thing that wants to eat her soul. Literally.
Now, given this information I am surprised so many find it odd that she is seriously messed up in the head.
On the other hand I couldn't stand Leliana, who came off to me as utterly shallow "ooo! pretty shoes!"

[Naturalus]

Volourn wrote...

"Every time I offer to help someone out she comes up with something snarky to say"

That's not true. There are certain times where she does approve of helping others. A good example is at the often talked about Recliffe with Jowan. She approves if you let him go.

Sometimes she can come across asbeing petty or evil; but that's not really true. It's more like being bias and hating those who hate her. It's a nasty cycle. The Circle/Chantry and their follows label free mages like Morrigan has evil beasts to be hunted down and murdered. In turn, she doesn't feel the need to protect them or kiss their butt. Why should she care about the fate of those who would gladly turn her into a robot (The Circle), or help a cowardly old geezer (the weaponsmith in Redcliffe) who won't even fight to save his own hometown because he's crying over his missing daughter when the town needs saving.


"sweet talk in camp and throw some shiny gifts"

You want to know what's funny about this? The three gifts she gets the biggest boosts for our two books for her personal quest, and a mirror that is a sappy reminder of her lost childhood. Not exactly 'evil'. Or shallow.

I honestly believe Morrigan is not only BIO's best character ever; but best written. Period. Totally awesome.

I agree with you I don’t see it evil from Morrigans perspective that she don’t like you helping the Circle / Chantry that really only wants to murder or turn mages like Morrigan to slavery. I hardly see any evil there that she despises those mage that support slavery system of all mage. You have to remember that templar’s and Circle of mages have hunted Morrigan for all of her life like an animal just to be caged in the nice tower or turned to tranquil or killed.

Then PC comes and helps Circle to clean up their own mess they have caused when some mages decide to use blood magic to break free from slavery from some point of view PC that helps circle of mages is more evil than Morrigan who don’t like helping slavery system.

Morrigan is very interesting character she don’t like that you waste time of helping those that are weak and many times caused their own problems. This adds realism to the story that PC can’t have the energy to save every weakling that can’t do anything to improve their own life themselves. It sounds first tile evil but when story go forward you come to understand that Morrigan has very important world turning plan and duty that saves life of the PC and makes something very important from that perspective wasting time to help some random weaklings that can’t solve their own problems is just time waste. Especially when time table is very short Blight is coming and in danger of destroying everything. 

[Ahisgewaya]

Leliana clearly doesn't beleive in the things the chantry does, but every other word from her mouth is "maker this, maker that". It got old real fast. Then she tells my elven character about how "good" the elves who are slaves in Orlais have it. Then she talks about missing her pretty shoes. I have rarely been as sickened by a character as I was with Lelianna. She will be staying in camp for all of my playthroughs from this point on.

Morrigan on the other hand, disagrees with me sometimes, but I find her conversations actually enjoyable. She is an interesting case study. At first I thought I would hate her and her rediculously skimpy clothing, but the more I speak to her the more I understand why she feels the way she does. The same could not be said of Leliana, as the more I speak to her the more I want to vomit.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:01 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Volourn wrote...

I honestly believe Morrigan is not only BIO's best character ever; but best written. Period. Totally awesome.

Agree completely.

[Silensfurtim]

i like morrigan.. because shes an atheist lol

[Errel]

Volourn wrote...

"Every time I offer to help someone out she comes up with something snarky to say"

That's not true. There are certain times where she does approve of helping others. A good example is at the often talked about Recliffe with Jowan. She approves if you let him go.

Sometimes she can come across asbeing petty or evil; but that's not really true. It's more like being bias and hating those who hate her. It's a nasty cycle. The Circle/Chantry and their follows label free mages like Morrigan has evil beasts to be hunted down and murdered. In turn, she doesn't feel the need to protect them or kiss their butt. Why should she care about the fate of those who would gladly turn her into a robot (The Circle), or help a cowardly old geezer (the weaponsmith in Redcliffe) who won't even fight to save his own hometown because he's crying over his missing daughter when the town needs saving.


"sweet talk in camp and throw some shiny gifts"

You want to know what's funny about this? The three gifts she gets the biggest boosts for our two books for her personal quest, and a mirror that is a sappy reminder of her lost childhood. Not exactly 'evil'. Or shallow.

I honestly believe Morrigan is not only BIO's best character ever; but best written. Period. Totally awesome.

Completely agree, I'm playing mostly as good, although my PC tends to get impatient with cowards. I really like Morrigan, she's not nearly as shallow or evil as she seems.

She's also the one that convinced me to release Sten from his cage. I had a hard time deciding because i knew he was awesome, but c'mon he murdered an entire family including the children lol.

[Naturalus]

Ahisgewaya wrote...
Exactly. Morrigan is someone with a LOT of baggage and a very Real sort of character if you get to know her. Everyone who hates her seems to be forgetting that she was RAISED BY A FREAKING MONSTER! In the sense of her mother being evil AND her mother being an inhuman thing that wants to eat her soul. Literally.
Now, given this information I am surprised so many find it odd that she is seriously messed up in the head.
On the other hand I couldn't stand Leliana, who came off to me as utterly shallow "ooo! pretty shoes!"

This is reason I liked Morrigan a good number there was more deepness in the Morrigan story than many of the other characters and in the end if you have romance with Morrigan you can make her little bit insecure about the fact the she fell love with your PC that she did not realize being capable of because Morrigan was raised by very powerful and intelligent monster in the wilderness without any other social contacts. Morrigan had no chance to show emotions not even once during her whole childhood because that monster that raised her would have destroyed her for being too weak. Flemeth only wanted potent daughters that are strong because that made transitions easier when Flemeth eats their soul if target is strong. This forced Morrigan to be as capable and strong as she can be. I hardly see this any type of evil if you just want to survive and being strong and without emotions is your only chance to survive.
 
I agree it sux sometimes that you can’t make everybody in your group happy but this adds realism to the story that there are always somebody who can’t accept your decisions. On the other hand if you pick up good persuade skills to your PC you could lesser damages from some disapprovals a lot.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Every time I hear her speak it's like nails on a blackboard and I just want to stab her in the face.

[Ahisgewaya]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Every time I hear her speak it's like nails on a blackboard and I just want to stab her in the face.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Every time I hear her speak it's like nails on a blackboard and I just want to stab her in the face.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

True. Morrigan is a person and she is a problem.

[Ahisgewaya]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
True. Morrigan is a person and she is a problem.

So you now think of her as a person? Now we're getting somewhere!

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 27 novembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Errel wrote...

She's also the one that convinced me to release Sten from his cage. I had a hard time deciding because i knew he was awesome, but c'mon he murdered an entire family including the children lol.

Yup, got to admit, she ensured one of my characters whom I thought would just leave him to die released him, when she said those words about him, my power mad dalish elf PC registered it as "He could be a good tool to use"

I can see how some people really don't like her both from an OOC perspective and IC perspective. Each to their own, I say. I personally like her from OOC perspective, but that is mainly because I like diverse characters, if the only party members we could have were prissy, whiny, goody two shoes who would like us doing every single heroic act possible, it'd be quite dull I think. Also would make it hard to play a truly bad unmanipulative character for those that want to do such.

Also I doubt 'Origins' will be the last we see of her

[Alex Savchovsky]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Also I doubt 'Origins' will be the last we see of her

I have no doubt we'll see her again. Apart from being the best designed, most discussed, loved and hated character around... she's probably the most important one too.

[Bluemax151]

Morrigan is capricious by nature. She even openly admits it in dialogue. There's that one adage "Actions speak louder than words". Yeah Morrigan talks a lot of big game for the most part but in reality acts on nothing. It's nice to see everyone vocal and playing the game pretty much takes the cards they're dealt in "life" at face value though...

[Never]

I like Morrigan, but I like her in camp. Where she stays.

[1Parmenides]

Someone in another thread said Morrigan needs a Kreia (Kotor2) style lesson of how helping others make them more dependent upon you and makes you more powerful.



Even evil characters benefit from helping person X find their friend. Wherever there is opportunity for power/influence to be gained .... THAT is pragmatic.



Morrigan is only short shortsightedly pragmatic. Nevertheless, I enjoy her... though some places... I just know to leave her at the tent.

[Vansen Elamber]

It seemed to me when I played a female human mage that Morrigan was much more receptive to that character then my elf male rogue, and seeing as the rogue could not heal he took Morrigan pretty much everywhere he went in the game and my mage basically just left her in camp the entire game. However it seemed that when I did talk to her in camp she liked my girl mage much better then the elf male and all it took was a few choice gifts here and there to keep her content to stoke her fire in camp and not complain about it. Come to think of it my mage must have forgot to talk to her when it came time to kill Flemeth for her because I never even got offered that and she still knew all about the ritual....

[Vilegrim]

Rememer she has never had a positive relationship before the PC arrives in her life, she has had flings that flemmeth ended for her, her only permenant relationship is with an immortal body thief who plans to destroy her sould and steal her body, is it any surprise she isn't well adjusted? When you break her barriers in the friendship/romance option she is really vulnerable, really insecure she doesn't belive she deserves anything good, you are the first person to ever treat her well, even love her, you actually reach the person she could be if Flemmeth hadn't messed with her head so much, and that person is actually a fairly decent human being. Incredible writing Bioware, thank you for this character.

[Alex Savchovsky]

1Parmenides wrote...

Someone in another thread said Morrigan needs a Kreia (Kotor2) style lesson of how helping others make them more dependent upon you and makes you more powerful.

Even evil characters benefit from helping person X find their friend. Wherever there is opportunity for power/influence to be gained .... THAT is pragmatic.

Morrigan is only short shortsightedly pragmatic. Nevertheless, I enjoy her... though some places... I just know to leave her at the tent.

As I said in another thread, you're not taking into account the fact that Morrigan is grown up outside of the society, in the wilds. She never actually get any benefit from helping others, because she didn't have anybody to help, in the first place. No wonder she doesn't see the point of doing random favors to others. The thing that she was taught to value is survival. With the upcoming Blight, the random favors become not just pointless, but a waste of time and effort, which are better spent on stopping the Blight. Note that she doesn't mind helping Arl Eamon, she disagrees with helping the blacksmith's daughter - which is perfectly sensible.