379 réponses à ce sujet

[sbear3737]

Interestingly, I didn't have Miranda loyalty but she never died on my playthrough, I just never used her for anything.

[Justin2k]

DuffyMJ wrote...

What I can't understand is how is Samara not a good leadership/fireteam choice? SHE'S 1,000 YEARS OLD!!! Garrus, who aspired to be a no-rules spectre type and who got his whole elite team wiped out and rages hardcore all the time is a good leader, but Samara who lives by a disciplined code and is a super biotic and is unbiased and has no worldy attachments is a poor leader?

I'm sorry but just help me out here, even Miranda -- if you pick Samara -- is like "she has unmatched experience... great choice!" and when you pick Garrus she's like "well, I GUESS he knows what he's doing..." And Miranda clearly doesn't have leadership skills... she shoots dudes she suspects of teachery on sight, is constantly second-guessed, is hated by Jack...

And then Jacob too? He's no more qualified than Ashley or Jenkins would be! 

But no... Samara is a poor leader.  <_<

Samara works alone.  She is not a leader.  The first time in years and years of working with people is helping Shepard.

Garrus was a leader in C-Sec, he has experience of fighting reapers, his mercenary group were only wiped out because of betrayal but he managed to hold off hundreds of mercenaries with strategy and a sniper rifle.

Jacob is a high ranking soldier, one of the best.  As was Ashley.  Jenkins was a rookie who died right at the start.  Unfair comparison.

[Ultima9999]

Everyone survived first time
Though only Dr. Chakwas survived :/
This thread has been a great help btw, i had a suspicion i might have been able to save more of the crew and it turns out i can so thanks

Modifié par Ultima9999, 09 février 2010 - 10:27 .

[Catfish42]

fett51 wrote...


I got the achievement on my first playthrough as well, this is my second.   Have everyone loyal, all the upgrades save the heavy pistol damage on haestrom which I forgot to look for.  Initially I had tali in the chute, garrus as fire team leader both times, and samara as biotic shield, with grunt and miranda as squadmates.  I switched those up a bit as I retried the level obviously, but I kept losing someone regardless.  Even flat started it over once and Garrus still died like a redshirt. 

I'm hoping someone can correlate what I said with their experiences and figure out what the hidden variable is, since in my case at least it's clearly less to do with someone specific dying and more to do with just killing someone period.  

I think you need a minimum of assault and biotics holding the line. Do you have zaeed recruited? Try leaving either grunt or miranda behind; if its based on the number of soldiers and powerful biotics you may do better taking tali and legion/thane. Not sure on this last part, but its the only thing i can think of besides this second playthrough being bugged (a rather large possibility).

*edit just remembered something:

Doubtful that its a check against the biotics/assault power of the door group though b/c i've succeeded with zaeed+samara and tali+garrus in my final group. For the shield section i had miranda and zaeed in my group but i don't think it makes a difference. Give it another try with this setup though; good luck to you.

Modifié par Catfish42, 09 février 2010 - 11:41 .

[JaegerBane]

Ken Ueno wrote...
The X-Factor                                                                                                                                                                             

Some people also report having trouble keeping a character (typically Mordin) alive at the end, where they must hold the line until Shepard kills the last boss.  This seems to be related to a choice or choices made during the final mission, as rearranging team roles from the same savegame will affect whether this mysterious death happens or not.  Character upgrades (e.g. Mordin's omnitool), loyalty, time taken to kill the boss, and number of team deaths have been ruled out as the cause.  Could still be dialog choices, choice of who 'holds the line', how well you got to know them on the Normandy, etc.  Still looking into this one.

Indeed, Mordin was the one I lost despite putting my team mates into their respective optimal roles. I have heard there is a glitch regarding Mordin - i.e. if he's not in your personal final team, he dies.

I've yet to test this.

[JaegerBane]

Davidos Wolfe wrote...

Well, Mordin just bleedin' died on me.
Freaking got every single upgrade, yes, every damn little thing, made rearrangements to my teams to get him in and still he keeps freaking dieing. Reloaded about 50 times. Kept a good relationship with him, no arguments or nothing.


I'm done, f*** him.

Same here.

[Thorn Harvestar]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ken Ueno wrote...
The X-Factor                                                                                                                                                                             

Some people also report having trouble keeping a character (typically Mordin) alive at the end, where they must hold the line until Shepard kills the last boss.  This seems to be related to a choice or choices made during the final mission, as rearranging team roles from the same savegame will affect whether this mysterious death happens or not.  Character upgrades (e.g. Mordin's omnitool), loyalty, time taken to kill the boss, and number of team deaths have been ruled out as the cause.  Could still be dialog choices, choice of who 'holds the line', how well you got to know them on the Normandy, etc.  Still looking into this one.

Indeed, Mordin was the one I lost despite putting my team mates into their respective optimal roles. I have heard there is a glitch regarding Mordin - i.e. if he's not in your personal final team, he dies.

I've yet to test this.

I ended the game with Garrus and Tali in my personal team, and he lived. You got his personal Omni-tool upgrade you say?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Anyone managed to get the whole party and crew out with only 4 loyal members yet? If so who did you use, am thinking of just getting Garrus, Samara, Tali and Mordin loyal, with Samara and Tali being my final battle team and Mordin being escort, leaving Garrus with the others at the door.

[Memnon]

I have played through twice now and have yet to see Mordin die. The first time I sided with Miranda in the fight between her and Jack (didn't have high enough Paragon to mediate). Jack died at the end in the rubble. I chose Garrus to run the tubes and Samara as the first fire team lead and Garrus died; I picked Grunt as the second fire team leader, and he died. For the boss fight I had Zaeed and Miranda, both lived.

My second time through, I chose Tali to run the tubes, Garrus as 1st fire team lead, Mirannda as 2nd fire team lead; my companions for the boss fight were Legion and Thane; everyone lived there. Both playthroughs I took Samara as the shielder. I also upgraded EVERYTHING in both playthroughs except the heavy pistol, which I had 4/5. Every other weapon/biotic/tech/armor upgrade I maxed out ...


-S

Modifié par Stornskar, 10 février 2010 - 12:05 .

[JaegerBane]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...
I ended the game with Garrus and Tali in my personal team, and he lived. You got his personal Omni-tool upgrade you say?

Did anyone else die, though?

Come to think of it... I did actually upgrade Mordin's omni-tool with his personal upgrade, yes... but I didn't buy all the Tech damage upgrades. Didn't have the cash.

Geez, is that why he died!?

[Verit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen Mordin (loyal) only has a chance of dying when he needs to defend the door at the end? In any other scenario (you send him back with the crew or let him join your team) he'll survive? I guess it would make some sens story-wise, seeing how he mentioned he wasn't a fan of "holding the line"...

[Eclesis]

Here's a question - who picked up the line when you radio your door team at the end? For me it was Thane, which threw me for a bit because it'd been Miranda who had been doing all the coordinating. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the "hold the line" team might require a certain amount of combat strength (ie, characters whose main specialty is combat and do not fit any of the other roles, like Grunt, Thane, or Zaeed) for everyone to pull through.



I had Tali as the tech, Garrus both fire teams, Jack as biotic, Jacob for escort, final party Garrus/Mordin, all loyalty/upgrades, no deaths. Picked "I'm not throwing my life away" and "Someone has to hold the door" if that matters.

[Catfish42]

JaegerBane wrote...

Indeed, Mordin was the one I lost despite putting my team mates into their respective optimal roles. I have heard there is a glitch regarding Mordin - i.e. if he's not in your personal final team, he dies.

I've yet to test this.

Sent jacob back with crew, had mordin hold the line. He survived. Might be a glitch, but Idk. Messed around with other combinations, mordin's lived through them all.

Safest way is to just send mordin back with the crew; if you're big into RP you can rationalize that they're in bad shape and need a doctor. Mordin WAS with STG so he can take care of himself.

Probably unrelated but you may also want to make sure that you've explored all dialogue with him after his loyalty quest, including the bit about his favorite nephew. Mordin states that his nephew is his motivation to make it through, so having that conversation may or may not be important in keeping him alive.

[Catfish42]

On an off-note, does anyone know exactly how much Renegade/Paragon is needed to get Tali exonerated (without using the "rally the crowd" option)? Do i need all the way up to the next-to-last renegade segment filled or can i get by with the last 2 segments empty?



I only have Tali's and Samara's quests left and want to leave Samara's for last in order to accumulate enough renegade to break morinth's spell.

The scene where my shepard couldn't break out of the trance annoyed me. My character's supposed to be a complete badass **** and instead gets worked over by some asari.

[Canez fan 1988]

Catfish42 wrote...

On an off-note, does anyone know exactly how much Renegade/Paragon is needed to get Tali exonerated (without using the "rally the crowd" option)? Do i need all the way up to the next-to-last renegade segment filled or can i get by with the last 2 segments empty?

I only have Tali's and Samara's quests left and want to leave Samara's for last in order to accumulate enough renegade to break morinth's spell.
The scene where my shepard couldn't break out of the trance annoyed me. My character's supposed to be a complete badass **** and instead gets worked over by some asari.

I wasn't using renegade, but I had quite a bit of Paragon points when I did her mission and was able to get her exonerated without using the crowd. Same thing with Morinth, didn't really have a problem because those were two of the later loyal quests that I did.

[UnstableMongoose]

I have scientifically concluded that there is, for no apparent reason at all, a higher chance of Mordin dying in the final sequence after the Reaper battle than any other character by repeated test runs of the final mission. The time it took to kill the Human Reaper and all team leader/specialist combos were kept constant to within seconds.



Test runs were conducted with full loyalty and upgrades to all squad members and the Normandy with 100% of the non-combatant crew being rescued.



It appears that time influences how many members, if any, of the rearguard die, but if Mordin is removed from the group by being sent to guard the prisoner extraction or taken into the battle with the Human Reaper. On the Hardcore difficulty, even defeating the Reaper in less than a minute invariably resulted in Mordin trying a little bit too hard to scan the interior of the Collector base with his face. The exact same time differentials resulted in perfect "No Man Left Behind" clears when Mordin was kept out of the action.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

On one playthrough am going to go for the 'only 4 loyal but everyone lives' run (that is allegedly possible).



Going to get all of the upgrades that I can.

Loyal members will be Garrus, Mordin, Tali and Samara

Vent - Tali

Leader - Garrus

Escort - Mordin

Biotic - Samara

Leader - Garrus

Final Battle - Tali and Samara



That will leave the loyal leader Garrus along with the non-loyal leaders Miranda and Jacob, with the rest of the door defenders having all or partial combat spec apart from Legion, way I figure it even if most aren't loyal they'll survive as they got Garrus

[Wynne]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ken Ueno wrote...
The X-Factor                                                                                                                                                                             

Some people also report having trouble keeping a character (typically Mordin) alive at the end, where they must hold the line until Shepard kills the last boss.  This seems to be related to a choice or choices made during the final mission, as rearranging team roles from the same savegame will affect whether this mysterious death happens or not. 

Indeed, Mordin was the one I lost despite putting my team mates into their respective optimal roles. I have heard there is a glitch regarding Mordin - i.e. if he's not in your personal final team, he dies.

I've yet to test this.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can send him with the crew and have him still live. I did so and he was fine, and I haven't seen anyone saying that they had him die so far. Maybe I missed something, but if not then there is one way to keep him alive and still not take him with you.

Can anyone confirm/debunk this theory? Have you had Mordin die if he goes with the crew when he's loyal?

I'm not sure the rest is a glitch, though. I think maybe Mordin dies so easily because he is apparently older than the average life span of a salarian and thus more fragile than most. Maybe his fragility is intentional and unless you pick the truly perfect character for each job he dies?

Modifié par Wynne, 10 février 2010 - 04:55 .

[Lawliet89]

http://social.biowar...ex/1117936&lf=8



One of the devs posted something about Mordin in Hold the Line. Worth taking a look at.

[Ken Ueno]

Yep, sounds like that's the end of that. Dusty Everman confirmed that you must leave combat-oriented characters behind to hold the line or else a character dies (in order of squishiness, with Mordin apparently at the top of the list). Adding to main post.

I'll try to figure out who exactly the Combat Specialists are, but by process of elimination I think we already have a good idea of who.

[Ken Ueno]

Comguard2 wrote...

As a rule: don`t take two characters with the assault rifle skill (Samara, Zaeed, Garrus, Legion) with you, otherwise your Squad will be outgunned and somebody dies.

I think this is why Mordin dies that often at this point, because he is just a tech/science char.

Looks like you were right!  Sort of!  It may not be assault rifle skill per se, but there is indeed some sort of combat score tally being done in the background.

[CVGuile]

Ok, so it sounds to me that if Mordin isn't loyal you're screwed.

I have Mordin's omni-tool upgrade but he isn't loyal.  I read somewhere that Mordin and Legion can survive the escort mission if they aren't loyal so long as they have their upgrades (Omni-tool or Rifle) but both died when I tried despite having them.

As it stands...

Mordin dies on the escort mission.

Mordin dies if I take him to the last boss.

That means the only option is to keep him alive holding the line.  Which doesn't seem possible given the fact that at that point I'm short loyal party members.  I only have five.  Jacob, Miranda, Tali, Samara, and Zaeed.  I have to send a loyal party member back with the crew and then take two loyal party members to the final battle.  That leaves Mordin with Zaeed (who I'm pretty sure needs to be on the line) and one other loyal person.

Is it really impossible for somebody who isn't loyal to survive the escort mission?

I got caught off guard when the Collectors decided to go ape**** on my crew so I know I'm underprepared but it just feels wrong to be so close to a perfect result and have Mordin be the weak link.

Modifié par CVGuile, 12 février 2010 - 04:50 .

[Catfish42]

Can multiple characters die holding the line? And if they do, do you get to see them bite the dust, or do you just see one and hear about the others dying when (or if) you get back to the ship?

[Lawliet89]

You might wanna post this to Mass Effect Wiki when you are done =D



http://masseffect.wi...ass_Effect_Wiki