379 réponses à ce sujet

[Comguard2]

@ Starscream



Hm, I think you have forgotten Zaeed and Legion?



Or did you send them back/they died?



If a character is not loyal it is pretty sure that he doesn`t survive.



But know it makes sense why no Character with leadership or AR is killed by missing upgrades: so you can still make a perfect playthrough of the collectors base.

[Starscream723]

Comguard2 wrote...

@ Starscream

Hm, I think you have forgotten Zaeed and Legion?

Or did you send them back/they died?

If a character is not loyal it is pretty sure that he doesn`t survive.

But know it makes sense why no Character with leadership or AR is killed by missing upgrades: so you can still make a perfect playthrough of the collectors base.

No, like I said

I killed legion at the first door, and sent Zaeed with the crew. This applies to ALL of those 5 tests listed.

I'm wondering if the AR user or Leader has to be loyal in order to count towards the points total. Or maybe they count for 2/3 of a point, or something silly like that. [Mordin Voice]Need more data.[/Mordin]

And good call on the upgrades death sequence, though I think a couple can die if you take certain characters with you to fight the Zappy Eye Thing.

[Comguard2]

Right, Legion can die if you sent Tali...hm, Tech-Guy for Tech-Guy...



Guess if you take Jack Samara would die...the other Biotic.

[Starscream723]

I haven't done this, because I was fully loyal/upgraded, but I think Jack dies BEFORE you pick a team, so she's unsaveable if you haven't upgraded that part of the ship.



According to the OP, Legion replaces Tali if you pick her, and Garrus replaces Thane if you pick him.

[Qario]

I'm about to start the Reaper IFF mission. Saved Jack's loyalty mission for last so that I could aquire as many paragon points as possible, but it still wasn't enough, I chose miranda in the fight and Jack's disloyal, can't change her mind when talking to her either. There are no more quests or assignments I can do now, so I'm wondering, will there be situations where you can aquire paragon points when starting the reaper IFF mission? I rly want Jack loyal

[The Wolfen]

Starscream723 wrote...

Testing my theory on Nimirel's post...

Okay, so by process of elimination, for the AR users, Zaeed was gone, so were Samara and Grunt, but you did leave Garrus and Legion.

Therefore, you left at least two AR users. Check.

You also get at least two more points from Leadership (Garrus and Jacob), and maybe a third from Miranda (I couldn't tell if you meant she died here, or just before).

Either way, it gives you a total of four or more "survival points" for that section, and Mordin survived! The theory holds up here.


Wolfen... dammit. What was the loyalty status of those you left behind? I cannot test loyalty without replaying the entire game, but perhaps that is a factor?

Everyone in the squad is loyal, all character-specific upgrades are done.

I'm beginning to wonder if using having to use Unity has anything to do with it, as both my attempts so far have had me needing to revive Jaeed during the final battle due to him getting stuck on top of a cover object. Other than that I'll try changing some of the dialogue options later today to see if I can save Mordin that way, or kill someone else to prove they matter.

Just had another thought. Someone posted earlier that when they used Garrus as the first Fireteam Leader he took a gutshot during the cutscene at the end of that section. When I used Miranda for both Fireteam Leader positions she was fine on the first one but took a hit during the cutscene of the second one. Maybe we're meant to be watching out for injuries during cutscenes and adapting?

It's also possible that the game adds up 'firepower points' based on the door-hold team's weapons and the relevant generic and character-specific upgrades, I know I wasn't 5/5 on either ARs or SMGs, though I was on Heavy Pistols, Sniper Rifles and Shotguns.

Modifié par The Wolfen, 02 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[Comguard2]

The character specific upgrades are not important. I didn`t upgrade Legion and Grunt, they both survived.

[Starscream723]

I really wish a dev would come along and put us out of our misery.



Okay, replace "us" with "me" and "our" with "my".

[The Wolfen]

Comguard2 wrote...

The character specific upgrades are not important. I didn`t upgrade Legion and Grunt, they both survived.

Did anyone at all die?

[Comguard2]

Just Mordin at the end, but that was because of my end-squad. When I change the team for the boss he survives.



The AR and leader problem...makes me crazy.

[Ken Ueno]

The Wolfen wrote...

Just had another thought. Someone posted earlier that when they used Garrus as the first Fireteam Leader he took a gutshot during the cutscene at the end of that section. When I used Miranda for both Fireteam Leader positions she was fine on the first one but took a hit during the cutscene of the second one. Maybe we're meant to be watching out for injuries during cutscenes and adapting?

I'm fairly certain that the 'fake out' with the Fireteam Leader clutching his stomach only happens in the second rendevous point (and it happens every time; it's either this or they actually get shot in the stomach and die).  In the first rendevous, the Tech Specialist is the one who pays with their life.

As for the AR/Leader points, this is starting to get a little too complex.  Occam's poking me with his razor...

[Starscream723]

One thing is certain - it is possible to determine whether or not everyone survives the final stage JUST by changing who you take with you/leave behind.



I'm sure there must be some kind of hidden value for each character, and the total needs to be above a certain amount for everyone to make it through. Whether this value is related to weapons, or skills, classes... that's annoying. Hell, maybe each character has a hidden predetermined "Big Damn Fight" score based on how badass the programmer thought they were. Maybe that's what makes the difference. But it surely can't be a random coin toss, because replicating circumstances from the same pre-mission save doesn't result in any variation in outcome at all.



Please Bioware, I'm literally begging now... can one of you designers have mercy and just explain how you did it? We've all played through and either died or not died by now, there's no harm to be done. Please? Pretty please? Pretty please with an asari on top?

[GotchaNL]

I doubt BioWare would explain it. At least not for at least several months.

[Sursion]

I've seen Thane die in the drive core explosion. It's not just Tali and Legion.

[The Wolfen]

Jack Anvil wrote...

Has anyone considered that the "X Factor" may be squad member specializations?

Salarian Genius vs. Salarian Savant

Usually, one specialization boosts weapons, and the other boosts health. Maybe choosing a certain specialization contributes to survival.

I believe I maxed out all my team's class specialisations, and chose the defensive option for most, if not all, of them. Mordin is a Salarian Genius.

[GarethLorn]

I had everyone except for Miranda loyal (I lost her loyalty by siding with Jack; my logic was I'd rather have her mad at me than the most powerful biotic ever, who happens to sleep next to my engines).



I hadn't even downloaded Zaeed.



The only squad member upgrades I had were Mordin's omni-tool and Legion's sniper.



I had about half of the upgrades total, including all of the ship upgrades except for the Med Bay.



My mission plan:



JACOB went through the ducts. I didn't want to risk losing Tali or Legion, and he volunteered.

GARRUS lead the first fireteam.

MIRANDA AND THANE were in my squad. I took Miranda because she already wasn't loyal, and I had spited her by not letting her lead the team. I didn't want her to do something like shoot Garrus in the back.



JACOB was killed by an explosion trying to close the door.



We regrouped.



JACK was the biotic. My logic was that I couldn't remember if she was the most powerful biotic ever, or just the most powerful human one. Regardless, that seemed like an impressive resumee, and I hadn't used Samara enough to get a good sense of her. We made it through fine.

MIRANDA led the second fireteam. This was probably a mistake, but I didn't want her and Jack in the same squad and Garrus was with me.

GARRUS AND THANE were in my squad.



We regrouped again. Miranda had been shot in the hip, and I was worried, but no one was dead yet. I found my crew. Only Dr. Chakawas was alive. This saddened me. I had done every sidemission before coming to the suicide mission, trying to make myself a high enough level that I would be able to charm Miranda into forgiving me and regain her loyalty. I never did.



MORDIN went back with Dr. Chakwas. I figured Mordin would be crap at holding the line. He had said so himself. I would have sent someone more capable with her, but at that point the only truly combat-oriented character I had left with them was Grunt, and I didn't want a squad of specialists holding out by themselves.

GARRUS and THANE accompanied me to the final boss.

Shepard gave a MIXED PARAGON/RENEGADE speech. I never mentioned anything about hurrying.



I killed the boss fairly quickly. I only lost one platform.



At the end, it showed a picture of MIRANDA being dead on the floor. I assumed this was because she had been shot earlier, but apparently that happens no matter what.



While I was making up the various teams throughout the sections of the level, I was careful each time to make sure all the groups were balanced. I didn't want to deny any given group biotics, or techs, or what have you, and risk them getting overrun because they were unbalanced.



Overall, I was pretty disappointed. Losing the entire crew of the Normandy was a huge blow to me. I consider Jacob and Miranda acceptable losses. Miranda was a Cerberus lackey, and it was Jacob's god-given duty to die first. I was looking forward to those drinks he and I were supposed to have afterwards, but ah well. I'm currently going through my second playthrough with plans for everyone to survive.

[Ken Ueno]

Just made my best effort at getting the bloodbath ending and failed. Apparently recruiting all 11 team members provides too much cannon fodder and it's no longer possible to kill everyone, even with zero upgrades and nobody loyal. There are only 9, possibly 10, deaths (three on the Normandy, the Tech Specialist, the second Fireteam Leader, one squadmate during the biotic walk, the crew escort, both squadmates at the end, and possibly the mysterious death holding the line).

Mordin was in my final squad, so I only got 9 deaths. Samara and Zaeed survived despite having no loyalty, no previous squad usage, and the bare minimum of character conversations.

I also let the game run for over 3 hours after the Joker level while I ate dinner and watched part of Lost.  All the crew members were still alive when I rescued them, which makes it reasonable to conclude that clock time does not determine their fate.  I'll test planetary landings, relay jumps, and minor missions later.

Modifié par Ken Ueno, 03 février 2010 - 04:02 .

[Qario]

After reading through most of the thread I feel like it's still abit unclear wether you can do Legion's loyalty mission before going through the omega relay. Some have written that you can do legion's loyalty mission directly after the reaper IFF mission and having the whole crew survive, and some say that you'll lose half your crew.

[MasterMenace]

N7 missions affect the normandy crew

[Qario]

MasterMenace wrote...

N7 missions affect the normandy crew

I see. Can anyone confirm that they did legion's loyalty mission directly after the reaper IFF mission and saved the whole crew?

[PurplePox]

I did Legions loyalty mission right after I got the IFF, and my entire squad and crew survived.

Also, the only way I can reliably save Mordin is to have him escort Doctor Chakwas and the rest of the crew back to The Normandy, otherwise he dies(I have his upgraded Omni-Tool, and he is loyal but he still dies everytime I leave him to fight)

[Unifermius Matty]

With the Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion argument I used paragon to end it while maintaining both the loyalty of both team members. In addition to trying to use team members evenly, I talked to each team member regularly... Joker included, he says some pretty funny stuff about EDI early in the game.

I got the upgrades for all crew members as well as all ship upgrades; so none of my team died before boarding the collector base. However, I did a couple of missions after the crew was abducted, so only Chakwas and four or five other crew members (who didn't re-appear on the Normandy after the mission) survived.

My mission proceedure (on veteran difficulty) went like this:
My Tech Specialist was Legion. I selected Garrus as the first fireteam leader, he did fairly well. I had Mordin and Grunt with me on my squad; as I was a sentinel I plowed through collectors and harbingers quite quickly. Garrus did take a slight hit as the door shut, but everyone survived.
My biotic specialist was Samara. Once again I selected Garrus as the fireteam leader, and he did very well. I took Mordin and Grunt with me on my squad, everyone survived. I sent Zaeed back with the crew, they survived too.
Prior to the boss scene I gave two paragon speeches (I did not mention hurrying) before I took Mordin and Grunt with me to the boss. Everyone that stayed behind to hold the line survived. Both Mordin and Grunt survived the reaper's aftermath, and Shepard survived too. The base went kaboom and the Normandy zipped out of there.

I've only played through once so I don't know if being fully paragon/renegade effects the survival rate. With regards to the post-abduction stuff, has anyone opted to 'take time preparing their crew' only to go to Omega-4 straight away anyway? I'm curious if this effects anything.

Also, Mordin and Grunt with Sentinel-Shepard make for an excellent team: as a tank Grunt keeps any close-combat people at bay, while mage-Mordin's tech powers hinder snipers/distance enemies. Shepard's area push and heavy warp abilities phase out husks and harbingers respectively, though overload is a good alternative to warp. Tech armor is a must to keep Shepard sweeping, and cryo helps Grunt ram things in some situations. As for my bonus power, I trained in neural shock as it helps Sentinel-Shepard get easy kills on unarmored infrantry that might otherwise slow you down.

Modifié par Unifermius Matty, 03 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[Comguard2]

Mass Effect doesn`t stop the real time, time is interpreted as "Actions".



You can sit in your cabin and lisrten to music, forget to turn out your box, go on vaccation, 2 weeks later - no problem, no action consumed.



But you land on a planet - first action. I was actually pretty lucky because I landed on Omega for some shopping.



Wonder if travelling to another system and scanning counts as actions, too.



And Legions loyality mission was also the last.



Concerning the deaths: even with 10 squadmates everyone can die:



1: hull breach

2: engine overload

3: ship damage

4: bad tech

5: bad group leader

6: bad biotic

7: bad group leader

8: illoyal character at the door/not enough characters at the door

9: illoyal character at the boss: dies

10: illoyal character at the boss: dies



And when Shepard is the only one left there is nobody who can help him aboard the Normandy > dead.



Hm, that's why it makes no sense to me that Ken`s Samara survived despite having no loayality. That`s the decisive factor for survival, otherwise it would be of no use.

[EatinMcRib]

I'm certain I saw a redshirt get impaled by a cluster-husk-thing coming out of the elevator during Joker's sequence. I'm pretty sure that guy's dead.

Modifié par EatinMcRib, 03 février 2010 - 08:36 .