146 réponses à ce sujet

[casedawgz]

Whenever I have the option to make something blow up, I tend to take it. Just because I like to blow s*** up.

[dgcatanisiri]

I can go either way on this choice. Both sides have their points to recommend them. There are reasons for wiping them (correcting a faulty program) and reasons for destroying them (consequences of their actions). Frankly, I wish this were a decision with no Paragon or Renegade points because both choices are valid and justifiable from both directions on the morality scale.

While I don't particularly like the idea of brainwashing these geth back into the party line, I'm not exactly fond of wiping them all out because they came to a decision I disagree with.

I know what I've chosen in my games, but I have to admit that it's a difficult one, one that I'm not sure I could ever be satisfied by.

[R-Taco]

I blew them up, in part because free will is important, but mostly because anything tied to the Reapers has the risk of being corrupted or corrupting others.

[AdmiralCheez]

This is an insanely tough decision for me every single time I play it. The geth are conscious beings, so blowing them all up seems wrong, plus they could prove to be valuable allies later, and the data they collected while serving the Reapers may be crucial in defeating them. On the other hand, Sovereign is dangerous and so is the virus, the decision could easily backfire, and because they are conscious beings I don't feel I have the right to take away their free will.

So I go with whatever gives me the morality points I'm in need of. 8D

Seriously, though, this is one of those epic decisions that I hope ME3 has more of.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 09 novembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[Googlesaurus]

Rewrite them. The heretics are the only group in the ME universe to have direct communication and access to Sovereign without being indoctrinated; imagine the knowledge they would possess of a Reaper's design, its strengths and weaknesses. With that knowledge the geth would be able to develop counter technology much faster than any organic government.

[achwas]

DaeJi wrote...

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...
As Legion would likely say, that is a false anthropomorphism to apply to software programs.  They do not have free will, they are suffering from a systemic operating difference only.

Call it what you will, those Geth came to their conclusion on their own. If the Geth want to be seen as a real species, and Legion gives me the impression that they do, then they have to accept that different opinions will form.

Interesting - so we, as humans should not try to treat mentally divergent people through therapy and medications, restoring mental equilibrium but leave psychopathic individuals who start wars of aggression based on non-factual believes as they are, because ^free will is important ? Yeah, let's take their free will away permanently by blowing them up, so much ethical^^

As for me - rewrite, even if Tali started to whine about it (after that actually because Tali started to whine about it =) ), I suspect Shepard will need every Geth she/he can have in one's corner come the Reapers.

Modifié par achwas, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Bebbe777]

I will do a leap of faith with the Geth because God knows we could use their fleet in the upcoming war. If it fails, well, back and change that decision

Modifié par Bebbe777, 09 novembre 2010 - 01:03 .

[vigna]

Yeah, I'm assuming that allowing legion to fight by your side (instead of giving him to TIM) is the important relational decision. Letting the Heretics die or be rewritten is a risk either way...inherently.

[ShadyKat]

Anyone who thinks the Geth are alive should blow them up. Because if not, you are brain washing them, and taking away their freedom of choice.



With that said I rewrite them every time.

[Jabarai]

As to the topic, I blew them up, and I'm a hard core Paragon. 

Jayne7 wrote...

Side note: So is it a coincidence that the Repears refer to themselves as Legion in ME1 and ME2's AI (Geth)gets named Legion? Very interesting.....

He only agreed to be named Legion, after insisting on being simply the 'Geth'. But it was EDI who suggested the new name... Suspicious, to say the least.

achwas wrote...
.... I suspect Shepard will need every Geth she/he can have in one's corner come the Reapers.

Personally, I believe winning the Reapers will have nothing to do with battleships and firepower.

[achwas]

Jabarai wrote...

achwas wrote...
.... I suspect Shepard will need every Geth she/he can have in one's corner come the Reapers.

Personally, I believe winning the Reapers will have nothing to do with battleships and firepower.

So do I....but I also believe there will be a lot of "holding the line" and a more or less epic battle with "reapers vs everyone else" as the theme, akin to the battle of DA:O . These are not mutually exclusive, and make for time-tested drama ever since LOTR^^
And that's what the decision is about - does Shepard plan for the coming battle of ME-3 or settle old grudges from ME-1 ?
Go rewrite as long as it does not turn them into iGeths......

Modifié par achwas, 09 novembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Sursion]

I rewrote them. The only con is that they may turn back towards the reapers, but if that happens I'll just blow them to hell. It's not like Heretic Station was a difficult battle.

[Louis deGuerre]

I also really hope ME3 has more of these grey area decisions (also recommend The Witcher if you enjoyed this).



For those min/maxers amongst you looking for max advantage in me3 :

Have you considered that the 95% of the 'friendly' Geth might change their minds about organics once they see Shephard brainwashing their deluded fellows ? So that decision might backfire on you very badly in ME3



I blew em up. It's the ethical thing to do when the alternative is brainwashing.

[wookieeassassin]

Even though they are technically alive, I didn't have a ton of problems rewriting them. Yeah, the whole thing about free will, but its an alternative to blowing them to hell. I wanted to do mostly paragon in my playthrough so I over-wrote them, but if the choice was a "gray area" instead of a "good guy/bad guy" one I'd probably have kept blowing them up. They followed Saren and were trying to help the Reapers so they need to be blown up, plus rewriting them isn't completely foolproof.



As far as real life goes with people, not machine AIs, say you/your country/tribe/whatever was enemies with another group and that it was a black and white battle. Your side was completely right, the ones protecting innocents and trying to keep peace, while the enemies were ruthless bastards who were killing everyone because they wanted money or women as slaves. If you could completely stop it by "rewriting them" so that they weren't so damn evil, wouldn't that be a lot easier than killing all of them?



Also, this is more of a philosophical argument, but what is so great about free will? If you were to create life, or even an AI, couldn't you just create it in a way that it was happy and fulfilled to do what you wanted it to and didn't know the difference?

[Dean_the_Young]

The Heretics are dead regardless. Either dead because you blow them up, or because you erased what made them unique and an individual collective.



If you rewrite, though, some new life will exist, and can help save more come time against the Reapers. That's morally better than unproductive destruction.

[wookieeassassin]

Dean, you are correct if there is no chance the heretics will eventually come to the same conclusion again and continue to cause trouble. However, there is a chance though, and will the destruction they may cause if they come to the same conclusion be worth it? Or would it be better just to make sure it doesn't happen again.



I think I'd be an interesting discussion if someone would disagree/agree/comment on what I said in my earlier post. Assume that "rewriting them" means they won't change their mind later.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There is also a chance that the heretics could return and cause trouble even if you blow up the station. Legion mentions that there is a small chance that isolated pockets of heretics may remain and rebuild many years into the future.

[SimonTheFrog]

In either event it's friggin hilarious that the Geth let Shepard do the thinking when they clearly are obsessed with "building their own future" and legion musing how silly individualism is etc. Also, Shepard (same as the player) as absolutely NO clue whatsoever about how the Geth work. She doesn't understand a word about what makes the difference between the Geth and the Heretics (why do they not share the same logic?!) in the first place. What was it? Geth say 3 is more than 2 whereas Heretics say 2 is more than 1 or something like that? Lol.

So, if i was the representative of my people i would not ask somebody from another species who's sole distinction is that he killed some of my people in the past whether or not its good to either kill or brainwash a substantial part of my species.



Anyway, we don't know anything about how Geth work, why it was possible to have a schism in the first place and what the risks of brainwashing is. Just flip the friggin coin or decide because you like one colour of answers more than the other and let the writers decide what it all meant

[Dean_the_Young]

wookieeassassin wrote...

Dean, you are correct if there is no chance the heretics will eventually come to the same conclusion again and continue to cause trouble. However, there is a chance though, and will the destruction they may cause if they come to the same conclusion be worth it? Or would it be better just to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think I'd be an interesting discussion if someone would disagree/agree/comment on what I said in my earlier post. Assume that "rewriting them" means they won't change their mind later.

A 'non-zero probability' is a euphism for 'I can't honestly say it can't happen, but it's incredibly damn unlikely.' You have a non-zero probability of winning five lotteries in a row. You have a non-zero probability for being struck by lightning twenty times. You have a non-zero probability of never having any sort of car accident/fenderbender/door-scratch in your life.

You take a much greater risk with the Rachni, with the Krogan Genophage cure, even with the Collector Base, than with the 'non-zero probability' of the Geth.


And even if it does happen! Consider! The geth don't, can't, hide from eachother's thoughts when making sweet, sweet consensus. They'll know if a split is occuring again. They'll know if the Heretics are reverting again. And they'll know to not simply let them go this time.

[wookieeassassin]

Dean, well said.

[Weskerr]

mrsph wrote...

I blow them up them due to the problem with rewriting likely not being permanent (and there is the chance the heretics would take more geth with them the next time.) And rewriting them goes against the geth's moral philosophy of making your own future (the heretics would bring back Reaper junk)

If rewriting the heretics "goes against the geth's moral philosophy," then Legion would have had 100% consensus on his loyalty mission to blow the station up.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

We shouldn't have made the choice. We should have waited till those damn geth made up their mind. I am not a geth and my experience with them is BIAS. I don't care what they choose as long as THEY choose it.





I feel like a vast minority here...

[gethslayer7]

 KABOOM

[Wolfy2449]

rewrite them cause legion is awesome! xD

Epic uncounterable logic