375 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Atlia]

Being the end game, I think people are overestimating the difficulty of accounting for a dead or alive character. Take Thane or Jack, if they died than you simply will have 2 less squad mates and all their dialog, the world itself will not really change at all (remember we have been given hints that dead party members will have consequences in ME3). Look at Legion, if it died you would probably just get another Legion unit. Some characters like Wrex, Tali, or Miranda would require more work because they have more attachments to possible major story arks to the story, quarian home world, taking down Cerberus, genophage resolution/krogan move closer to extinction. For example (this is speculation) if there is a geth/quarian scene as many fans are hoping, if you come back to the Flotilla with Tali you get a warm welcome and perhaps a mission will be a bit easier, if Tali is dead you will face nothing but animosity from the quarians and thus making rallying them to your cause a bit more difficult.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

I find it extremely hard to believe none of the me2 squadmates will return. Sure they all COULD die, but it's not quite on the same level as Kaiden and Ashley, where one of them HAD to die. I'm very certain liara will be back, i'd be suprised disappointed if tali didn't return... Vas Normandy T_T must stay with me.



There is also the whole online option in me2 which relays info to bioware, maybe they will take into account which characters die the least in me2 and incorporate them in me3? Seems like it could be a possibility perhaps. I also am fairly certain they'll bring back some new characters from me2. I'm thinking something along the lines of 2-3 from me1, 2-3 from me2, and half the crew will be new.

[unclee]

RandomPot322 wrote...

Well, assuming all of them live, Thane'll die in a year or so, Samara's off doing her Justicar thing, and Zaeed (like anyone cares about him) is doing his merc thing. Legion probably leaves to help Geth prepare for Reaper invasion. So you have four characters with logical reasons for leaving.
That leaves Garrus, Tali, Jacob, Miranda and Jack as potentials.
Tali can become ship's engineer, making her a shipmate, but not squad. Jack can very easily go, screw this ship (if not LI).
Miranda might leave to be the TiM.
Garrus becomes a weapon specialist, so becomes like Tali.
and Jacob, well whatever.

I'd be fine with that, as long as those characters who switched to crew members had squademember-like dialog progression. Would hate to see all that character progression in ME2 go to waste.

Though Miranda would probably stay. If you take her with you for the final boss, and you choose to blow up the place, she tells TIM to stick it and pretty much says tells him she quites.

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

I highly doubt any of them will be back as squad mates -- it would add way too much work.

It would be nice to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm expecting a brand new line up.

Modifié par Nithrakis Arcanius, 01 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[yoshibb]

RandomPot322 wrote...

Well, assuming all of them live, Thane'll die in a year or so, Samara's off doing her Justicar thing, and Zaeed (like anyone cares about him) is doing his merc thing. Legion probably leaves to help Geth prepare for Reaper invasion. So you have four characters with logical reasons for leaving.
That leaves Garrus, Tali, Jacob, Miranda and Jack as potentials.
Tali can become ship's engineer, making her a shipmate, but not squad. Jack can very easily go, screw this ship (if not LI).
Miranda might leave to be the TiM.
Garrus becomes a weapon specialist, so becomes like Tali.
and Jacob, well whatever.

Your missing Grunt and Mordin. I can see Jack leaving to go off on her own too, partially because it's unfair that Thane dies for femsheps while all three options are still open for males, also cause it seems like in her character not to stick around too long. I can see Grunt heading to help Wrex and Mordin staying on the ship though. 

I think the best way to do it is have half still on your ship while the other half still playing a big role building an army. Like say you go to get the geth army's loyality, Legion would be there for the whole quest and it would be much harder to get the geth's help without him. 

For me, more focus on old squadmates and choices, less on combat and a whole new crew. Use the system and characters you already have. Don't bring in the new when most people are only interested in the old. 

[RandomPot322]

unclee wrote...

RandomPot322 wrote...

Well, assuming all of them live, Thane'll die in a year or so, Samara's off doing her Justicar thing, and Zaeed (like anyone cares about him) is doing his merc thing. Legion probably leaves to help Geth prepare for Reaper invasion. So you have four characters with logical reasons for leaving.
That leaves Garrus, Tali, Jacob, Miranda and Jack as potentials.
Tali can become ship's engineer, making her a shipmate, but not squad. Jack can very easily go, screw this ship (if not LI).
Miranda might leave to be the TiM.
Garrus becomes a weapon specialist, so becomes like Tali.
and Jacob, well whatever.

I'd be fine with that, as long as those characters who switched to crew members had squademember-like dialog progression. Would hate to see all that character progression in ME2 go to waste.

Though Miranda would probably stay. If you take her with you for the final boss, and you choose to blow up the place, she tells TIM to stick it and pretty much says tells him she quites.

Well, I hated Miranda so didn't take her anywhere.
But have them be like shipmates would be great. Replacing the crew would be even easier, though I'd hope they'd keep it if you saved them. Wanna see if I can continue Kelly.
Back on topic though, I'm sure they could come up with menial duties for certain members of the squad that don't have lives or business away from the normandy.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

unclee wrote...
I'd be fine with that, as long as those characters who switched to crew members had squademember-like dialog progression. Would hate to see all that character progression in ME2 go to waste.

If they gave them squad member like dialog profession, they may as well bring them back... having them still maintain a mass of dialog defeats the purpose of holding them out because they died for some people. I can't see them going this route at all.

[RandomPot322]

yoshibb wrote...

Your missing Grunt and Mordin. I can see Jack leaving to go off on her own too, partially because it's unfair that Thane dies for femsheps while all three options are still open for males, also cause it seems like in her character not to stick around too long. I can see Grunt heading to help Wrex and Mordin staying on the ship though. 

I think the best way to do it is have half still on your ship while the other half still playing a big role building an army. Like say you go to get the geth army's loyality, Legion would be there for the whole quest and it would be much harder to get the geth's help without him. 

For me, more focus on old squadmates and choices, less on combat and a whole new crew. Use the system and characters you already have. Don't bring in the new when most people are only interested in the old. 

Crap, sorry bout Grunt and Mordin.
Grunt'll be gone, and I don't know how old Mordin is, so depending on how much time passes he may be too old.
Thane dieing is almost a given though, doesn't matter. It'd be great if ME3 sidequest is to go to his funueral.
But you'd probably need an entire new squad. But you know, Bioware did make us care for most of this new squad, I'm sure they can do the same again.

[Faerlyte]

yoshibb wrote...

Commisar_V wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

So you'd be completely understanding if Tali was brought back for a small cameo role where she essentially told you to ****** off?

Because that's basically what happened to all the squad members who could die in Mass Effect 1 or in the case of Liara simply a love interest. They got like 5 minute cameos, and 3/4 of them weren't exactly friendly. 

Seeing as it's the last game for Shepard, so they say, I wouldn't be okay with it, per se, but I wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit either.

I would be definitely disappointed, though.

And my argument still invalidates Mox's claim of 'If they can die, they must.'

I have a hard time believing that a large amount of the Tali/Garrus fandom wouldn't be creating chaos on the boards if they were relegated to the role Kaiden/Ashley got. I've seen people saying they wouldn't even buy the last game if that happened.

We're just going by the pattern Bioware has set already. You can die = you get a cameo role. Garrus and Tali couldn't die so they came back as squadmates. Do I want that to happen? No, I want the fact that I saved all my squadmates to matter, I want them back. But up until this point Bioware hasn't done anything groundbreaking as far as this whole import thing goes.  

The Rachni? They'll be there in ME 3
The Council? They'll be there in ME 3
Wrex? ME3
Love Interests? ME3

Any big choice in Mass Effect had no immediate effect on the plotline of Mass Effect 2. Right now, we've got a lot of promises, but we got a lot of promises before Mass Effect 2 as well. That's why I'm a little doubtful they'll put effort into bringing back squadmates for big roles in 3 when their track record hasn't been that great. 

All I know is ME3 is last, and if they don't do all this stuff they are promising, then they will probably lose a faithful customer. 

Or perhaps they've had a plan all along. You know you're LIs are coming back in ME3 - that's basically a given at this point. I'm sure Bioware had their reasons for what they did. Ashley/Kaiden are what I consider to be canon romantic leads, while Tali and Garrus were addendum squadmates in ME1, and we got them as romantic options in ME2 because we wanted them - they go against the established design that Bioware had with ME1's LIs though, so that could mean anything in the long run. 

The bottom line is, Garrus and Tali have got a lot less chance of having relevance in ME3 than Ashley/Kaiden, in part because they're aliens and the humans always seem to take bigger roles (lame), but also because the ME1's LIs weren't in ME2 for a reason. They were also basically thrown at your feet in ME1 to encourage you to choose them, and then to make sure they survive for ME3. I'd say that makes whoever has a ME1 LI in the driver seat for ME3. 

Now I can imagine it's disappointing what very little screen time the ME1 LIs got in ME2,  but as a member of the Tali/Garrus fandom, I'm basically staring at the finale of the Mass Effect franchise with serious reservations of there being a satisfying ending for me. At least you still have that hope. Nobody wants their dream game to end with their favorite characters and LIs being footnotes because it was possible for them to die in ME3. Because ultimately, if the trilogy ends with a fireworks and excitement with your ME1 LIs, it will make all the difference regardless of ME2. 

Just as it will make all the difference if I lose my favorite characters - the ones that have made the game meaningful to me, in ME3. It will be a great game I have no doubts, but for me it will have lost a great deal of what made it so memorable for me if Garrus and Tali are excluded. 

[DirtyVagrant]

I would still love Garrus and Tali to be squad mates, but I would still happy if they were very talkative crewmembers, much like if you were to talk to them on the ship if they were squad mates.

Those who want to continue that LI should be able, as should those who want Liara or Ashley/Kaiden, it'll be the conclusion of the arc for Shepard and we'd all like "our" own happy ending, you know?

[RandomPot322]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

unclee wrote...
I'd be fine with that, as long as those characters who switched to crew members had squademember-like dialog progression. Would hate to see all that character progression in ME2 go to waste.

If they gave them squad member like dialog profession, they may as well bring them back... having them still maintain a mass of dialog defeats the purpose of holding them out because they died for some people. I can't see them going this route at all.

Not really, I mean, not like you get that much Dialogue from Garrus now. Keep it to his level where you can chat them up a few times and then they start going "****** off Shapard"

[Inriri]

So why wouldn't they make full roles for all the potentially dead teammates? This is the grand finale, so why wouldn't they throw everything including the kitchen sink into it? Bioware is known for making games on a grand scale, so why wouldn't the third and final game in the trilogy not be one of the biggest games?



Hell, I hope they make it possible that the entire ME2 squad plus survivors of the first game make it in as playable, and then throw in a few more. Even with everyone the Normandy still feels kinda empty

[BlackwindTheCommander]

I demand its Garrus and Tali on the cover of ME3! (which would be ironic if you got both of them killed in ME2)

[marshalleck]

Liara - Biotic
Ashley - Soldier
Tali - Engineer
Kaidan - Biotic/Engineer
Miranda - Biotic/Engineer
Jack - Biotic/Soldier
Jacob - Biotic/Soldier
Garrus - Soldier/Engineer
Thane - Soldier/Engineer

Looks like a pretty well-rounded roster, no? What do these characters all have in common?

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[SorrowAndJoy7]

RandomPot322 wrote...

Not really, I mean, not like you get that much Dialogue from Garrus now. Keep it to his level where you can chat them up a few times and then they start going "****** off Shapard"

True, But... that's the majority of their dialogue... if they went that far it wouldn't be that hard to throw in a couple paragraphs for them to say over the other situations in the game. "Shepard we can't do this blah", "Who would do something like this"... you know just some generic lines that cover situations that happen while out on missions. The majority of their dialogue is on the ship through talking, A vast majority of it comes from the "investigate" options.

[RandomPot322]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

True, But... that's the majority of their dialogue... if they went that far it wouldn't be that hard to throw in a couple paragraphs for them to say over the other situations in the game. "Shepard we can't do this blah", "Who would do something like this"... you know just some generic lines that cover situations that happen while out on missions. The majority of their dialogue is on the ship through talking, A vast majority of it comes from the "investigate" options.

Well, the problem is programing the AIs for the character. especially if that AI has a chance not to be used.
You're better off just having a stiff board with their skin and dialogue options, well it's easier to do.

[RiotLaFontaine]

First off, as fans, I think we should all be as vocal as we possibly can regarding our love for Garrus and Tali, so that Bioware hears us. They went the extra mile for the fans of these two characters and I don't think it would be out of the question for it to happen again. Likewise, the ability for a character to die or to be skipped has already been ruled out as a roadblock to a squadmate position since Garrus was skippable in ME1.



We also need to consider variables. ME1 offered 6 squadmates that needed to be factored into ME2 as returning squadmates or cameos. ME2 will have 10 new characters total based on DLC rumors, 2 concrete cameos (Kaiden/Ashley/Liara), and 1 variable cameo (Wrex). So ME3 will require a minimum total of 15 character variables. Then factor into that 9 variable LIs. This is the baseline since every single character in ME2 can survive into ME3 and would need to be dealt with in some manner. Now, if ME3 were to have a new cast, you're looking at another 8-10 new squadmate character variables, which is spreading things very thin, especially since this is currently a middle act and the ideal storytelling device is, at this point, to focus on developing the core cast of characters further.



If ME3 were to combine the ME1 cast with the ME2 cast, you'd have a maximum of 15 selectable squadmates and a minimum of 5 for a custom-tailored experience.



But those are really basic numbers I'm throwing out. If you look at storyline development, Garrus and Tali are given since they express the need to be "by your side." Likewise, the possibility that Tali can be exiled almost guarantees a position at your side (vas Normandy is damning). Legion's fascination with Shepard would likely continue at your side and would further Geth involvement on a personal level.



To keep this shorter than I intended, other character roles seem a little more clear-cut, such as Wrex, who would likely remain involved with dealings on Tuchanka and unification.

[sp333dd3m0n]

I'm just waiting for the announcement that ME3 has triple the amount of people working on it compared to ME2 and 1. If that actually happens I would readily expect to have bioware create quests and storylines that many people wouldn't see. Plus we've been told in the past that Bioware wants to create the third installment with the idea of just "letting go" and seeing what happens. Like having every choice we've made bring the game to a climax.

So having Garrus and Tali back for ME3 better happen!!!! Cuz tali better get outa that suit, at least enought to where i can see her face and arms. She should be able to find some sort of way to be able to walk around in just clothes. That would be hella tight!

Modifié par sp333dd3m0n, 01 février 2010 - 01:40 .

[yoshibb]

Faerlyte wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Commisar_V wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

So you'd be completely understanding if Tali was brought back for a small cameo role where she essentially told you to ****** off?

Because that's basically what happened to all the squad members who could die in Mass Effect 1 or in the case of Liara simply a love interest. They got like 5 minute cameos, and 3/4 of them weren't exactly friendly. 

Seeing as it's the last game for Shepard, so they say, I wouldn't be okay with it, per se, but I wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit either.

I would be definitely disappointed, though.

And my argument still invalidates Mox's claim of 'If they can die, they must.'

I have a hard time believing that a large amount of the Tali/Garrus fandom wouldn't be creating chaos on the boards if they were relegated to the role Kaiden/Ashley got. I've seen people saying they wouldn't even buy the last game if that happened.

We're just going by the pattern Bioware has set already. You can die = you get a cameo role. Garrus and Tali couldn't die so they came back as squadmates. Do I want that to happen? No, I want the fact that I saved all my squadmates to matter, I want them back. But up until this point Bioware hasn't done anything groundbreaking as far as this whole import thing goes.  

The Rachni? They'll be there in ME 3
The Council? They'll be there in ME 3
Wrex? ME3
Love Interests? ME3

Any big choice in Mass Effect had no immediate effect on the plotline of Mass Effect 2. Right now, we've got a lot of promises, but we got a lot of promises before Mass Effect 2 as well. That's why I'm a little doubtful they'll put effort into bringing back squadmates for big roles in 3 when their track record hasn't been that great. 

All I know is ME3 is last, and if they don't do all this stuff they are promising, then they will probably lose a faithful customer. 

Or perhaps they've had a plan all along. You know you're LIs are coming back in ME3 - that's basically a given at this point. I'm sure Bioware had their reasons for what they did. Ashley/Kaiden are what I consider to be canon romantic leads, while Tali and Garrus were addendum squadmates in ME1, and we got them as romantic options in ME2 because we wanted them - they go against the established design that Bioware had with ME1's LIs though, so that could mean anything in the long run. 

The bottom line is, Garrus and Tali have got a lot less chance of having relevance in ME3 than Ashley/Kaiden, in part because they're aliens and the humans always seem to take bigger roles (lame), but also because the ME1's LIs weren't in ME2 for a reason. They were also basically thrown at your feet in ME1 to encourage you to choose them, and then to make sure they survive for ME3. I'd say that makes whoever has a ME1 LI in the driver seat for ME3. 

Now I can imagine it's disappointing what very little screen time the ME1 LIs got in ME2,  but as a member of the Tali/Garrus fandom, I'm basically staring at the finale of the Mass Effect franchise with serious reservations of there being a satisfying ending for me. At least you still have that hope. Nobody wants their dream game to end with their favorite characters and LIs being footnotes because it was possible for them to die in ME3. Because ultimately, if the trilogy ends with a fireworks and excitement with your ME1 LIs, it will make all the difference regardless of ME2. 

Just as it will make all the difference if I lose my favorite characters - the ones that have made the game meaningful to me, in ME3. It will be a great game I have no doubts, but for me it will have lost a great deal of what made it so memorable for me if Garrus and Tali are excluded. 

I can definitely see this happening cause it's probably the easiest choice to implement into the next game. But that's not all that matters to me either. As I said, the choices in Mass Effect 1 are glossed over with no impact, all of them. I may be happy that my favorite character is back but I'm still gonna be mad if the squadmates I worked to help stay alive are thrown in useless roles that don't really make a difference. Which is why I want Tali/Garrus back along with everyone else, and I want people to understand how much it sucked that the characters that I really loved in ME 1 were kind of forgotten because it's too much of a risk to bring them back cause "new people wouldn't know what's going on."

You understand our concerns now. Bioware could take out your favorite characters because it's too hard to implement them. This is a trilogy where choices were supposed to really matter. I thought this was supposed to be groundbreaking, but right now it's leaning towards just another FPS type shooter with a little story thrown in. People who like Liara, Wrex, Kaiden, and Ashley should not be cut down and called whiners. It shouldn't be just Garrus and Tali coming back, it should be all of them. They do that, they get their money, and they create one of the greatest games of all time.

[marshalleck]

sp333dd3m0n wrote...

I'm just waiting for the announcement that ME3 has triple the amount of people working on it compared to ME2 and 1. If that actually happens I would readily expect to have bioware create quests and storylines that many people wouldn't see. Plus we've been told in the past that Bioware wants to create the third installment with the idea of just "letting go" and seeing what happens. Like having every choice we've made bring the game to a climax.

Will Mass Effect 3 continue the trend of incrementing the number of discs each game is shipped on by one? 

[Sereaph502]

Bioware let you import your Shepard from ME1 to ME2, meaning wether wrex lives or dies, if kaiden or ashley died, who your love interest was, all that data was imported.

You guys are acting like suddenly Bioware is going to take all of our control over the story away with ME3. Remember that hunt? "Your actions in ME2 will have dire ramifacations in ME3" Sure, they could mean any choices, but it's clear to me they mean who lives/dies in ME2.

Also. They made two achievements with the game: Survive the suicide mission, and have ALL your teammates survive. Bioware KNOWS that people are going to try and get through the game without any of their teammates dieing.

And as I said before, they could import who lived/died in ME1 into ME2. It's been years since ME1, technology is much much better, it's completely possible for them to do the exact same thing they did in ME1 with ME2. Hell, they could compile it into one big "Casualty report" column, which only lists who died during the final mission.

Honestly people, you need to stop letting your emotions and your "I WANT ASHLEY/KAIDEN AND LIARA BACK" desires get in the way of the truth: Bioware will not throw away all your team members in ME3 just because it was possible for them all to die in ME2.

Besides, if you want to play by that logic: It's possible for shepard to die in ME2. Obviously Bioware would have too much trouble bringing back the MAIN CHARATCER OF THE SERIES and will just decide to SPEND EVEN MORE RESOURCES ON CREATING A BRAND NEW CHARACTER INSTEAD OF JUST USING AN OLD ONE, meaning a new protagonist.

See how silly that sounds? Bioware has ALL the info they need on your ME2 crewmembers. It's EASIER for them to factor in the possibilities of who lives/dies than it would be for them to scrap everyone and make an entirely new cast.

One last thing:  If our choices are suppose to matter, then us keeping all our squad alive should be a logical outcome for ME3.  Otherwise, Bioware might as well come and tell us now that our choices don't matter, and now we need to play by whatever they want to do with ME3, with no regards to our choices, which was what they promised from the very beginning.

Modifié par Sereaph502, 01 février 2010 - 01:43 .

[unclee]

RandomPot322 wrote...

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

True, But... that's the majority of their dialogue... if they went that far it wouldn't be that hard to throw in a couple paragraphs for them to say over the other situations in the game. "Shepard we can't do this blah", "Who would do something like this"... you know just some generic lines that cover situations that happen while out on missions. The majority of their dialogue is on the ship through talking, A vast majority of it comes from the "investigate" options.

Well, the problem is programing the AIs for the character. especially if that AI has a chance not to be used.
You're better off just having a stiff board with their skin and dialogue options, well it's easier to do.

It also saves a lot of space on the disk. Not having to program the AI or their sidequest would probably leave a large amount of room for other things.

[RandomPot322]

yoshibb wrote...

You understand our concerns now. Bioware could take out your favorite characters because it's too hard to implement them. This is a trilogy where choices were supposed to really matter. I thought this was supposed to be groundbreaking, but right now it's leaning towards just another FPS type shooter with a little story thrown in. People who like Liara, Wrex, Kaiden, and Ashley should not be cut down and called whiners. It shouldn't be just Garrus and Tali coming back, it should be all of them. They do that, they get their money, and they create one of the greatest games of all time.

Bioware's proved that it will bring back characters, even ones that can die, like Wrex, but don't have to.
At this point, I think a lot of worrying is a bit unfounded. Like when the first trailer came out and everyone said they wouldn't buy the game cause they killed Shepard. And how they weren't going to follow through on their promises for importing your saves.
Not that I say give it time, I say look at what they've done, they know what they're doing. And I have faith that they'll do the right thing.