375 réponses à ce sujet

[hawat333]

More importantly, Jack and Mordin.

Just saying.

[RandomPot322]

yoshibb wrote...

I'd much rather they simply focused on the big choices rather than conrad verner and the like. If there was just one key mission where things went different depending your choice on the council, I would be happy. In other words having two different distinct paths in that mission. I gave you an example above of a possibility.

You say have have faith, but unless we complain Bioware won't do anything. I said nothing and had faith that my choices would matter in the sequel. But I got nothing from it. Meanwhile, the people who asked again and again for more Tali/Garrus and better combat, got what they wanted. So I can't just sit quietly and have faith. I need to complain so they understand I will not be happy if they just scrap everything and go with a new crew. 

complain isn't the best way to get Bioward to do what you want.
What do you mean, you choices did matter, just not in the way you wanted. I liked the fact that they impacted in all sorts of small ways. It gave depth to the world.
And it doesn't matter if they go with a new crew. they basically did it this time around, and I don't see people ****ing that you can't have all those you kept alive? Not even half your crew back?
Come on, you're complaining to complain. You aren't even providing critisim. you're yelling at them for not doing exactly what you wanted.
You know what, I would love to have the choices to have bigger influences, but it didn't happen. I still loved the game, and they did have my decisions matter.
P.S. you not being happy means nothing.

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

Something of note:



Where there were multiple "Big" choices in ME1 like the Rachni Queen, Wrex on Virmire, Council live or die, and Anderson or Udina. There's only 1 of these in ME2, the Collector Base at the end. Is it possible they're leaving room for some of those "other" choices to be whether or not some specific characters live or die in ME2.



I mean, Idk, maybe they just realized, "Oh ****, we made too many big variables the first time, let's only make one this time around." We'll see.



That said, I expect Liara back definitely, probable Human Virmire Survivor, and I expect at least one, but only two maximum of the ME2 squad possibly back. If said character dies in ME2, you lose that one character (or possibly 2, but no more than that) for ME3, and that acts as the squadmate you can leave behind in ME3 (e.g. Garrus in ME1, Grunt and Legion in ME2)

[RVonE]

RVonE wrote...

Here's the problem: if BioWare wants to please everyone they'll have a ton of squad members for ME3. This is unlikely to happen so some members need to be cut. Since it is much harder to write new story for characters that are well developed I think Tali and Garrus are the first to be cut. They've had two games worth of being a squad member and both had a romance subplot. All other characters have only had one game to develop their story (or one and a bit, like Liara). These are the characters that will be easier to develop in ME3 so I predict Garrus and Tali being sidelined. For Tali, the story hooks are there: she seems to be a candidate for filling her father's place on the admiralty board (this can also work if she's first exiled, think about it).

For those who remember, I used to be very active in the Tali love threads before it was known that she was going to be romanceable, so this is the worst case scenario for me. But this is what seems most logical to me.

[Sereaph502]

ShadowAldrius wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

I'm more concerned about whether or not they'll get a good role. Wrex's role didn't exactly measure up to his popularity.

Some of your ME2 squadmates will most definitely be back. All of them can die, but not all of them WILL be dead. It depends on what the default is and how the ME3 squad works. Personally, I'm partial to the 'pick and choose' idea for it. Rather than having a set of squadmates you always have. It'd be extensive, but they won't have to give them all long extensive personal quests like they did in ME2.

 

.

You wouldn't need them.  You already resolved some of your crew's personal issues.  Theres no real reason for them to come crying to you with their problems anymore.  Maybe some Shepard/crew missions where they were assigned a mission and asked shepard to help out, but they can be short, and don't need to be "help me solve my family problems!"

To be hoenst, they don't need to add more characters in ME3.  it's the last of the series, and as I've said: they don't have the time to have you chase down more squad members throughout the whole game like in ME2

[unclee]

Sereaph502 wrote...

ShadowAldrius wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

I'm more concerned about whether or not they'll get a good role. Wrex's role didn't exactly measure up to his popularity.

Some of your ME2 squadmates will most definitely be back. All of them can die, but not all of them WILL be dead. It depends on what the default is and how the ME3 squad works. Personally, I'm partial to the 'pick and choose' idea for it. Rather than having a set of squadmates you always have. It'd be extensive, but they won't have to give them all long extensive personal quests like they did in ME2.

 

.

You wouldn't need them.  You already resolved some of your crew's personal issues.  Theres no real reason for them to come crying to you with their problems anymore.  Maybe some Shepard/crew missions where they were assigned a mission and asked shepard to help out, but they can be short, and don't need to be "help me solve my family problems!"

To be hoenst, they don't need to add more characters in ME3.  it's the last of the series, and as I've said: they don't have the time to have you chase down more squad members throughout the whole game like in ME2

If they just added back the two characters from ME1, Ashley/Kaiden and Liara, that would up the squad count to 12 (taking out Zaeed from ME2). Would be a pretty bold move if Bioware did that and then said, "if someone didn't survive in ME2 then your squad is smaller." So if 4 died in ME2 then your squad is only 8 people. Would really drive home the "there are consequences to squad members dying in ME2."

Would be interesting to see. I'm really curious as to how their going to handle this.

[RiouHotaru]

I highly, HIGHLY doubt Bioware would even remotely consider the possibility of sidelining Garrus and Tali. The ONLY reason they sidelined the ME1 LIs was to keep them alive so they could have an impact in ME3. Of the 10 squaddies in ME2, six of them are LIs, which means they HAVE to play significant roles. Otherwise fans and players will feel as though the time and effort they put into wooing those characters, or even going out of their way to make ME1 Shepards SPECIFICALLY for the purposes of romancing ME2 characters (as I did) would've felt like a total waste of emotion and time.



Bioware would be comitting developer suicide if they even conceived of such an idea.

[Sereaph502]

Personally, I think it would be easier on the bioware devs if they just made something like this:



Default Shepard: everyone survives the mission.



Then depending on what you import, you'd have a list of who died. And they just don't appear. period. Replaced by others, maybe.



They really don't need to be trying to make some weird alive/dead list for default considering all these options. Just make it simple: Everyone survived. If someone wants to import a save where some died, then their squad is either smaller or they get replaced. If someone imports a save with everyone alive, continue as is, maybe have an option to let a few squadmates go if they absolutely want to put the ME1 characters back in your squad.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I highly, HIGHLY doubt Bioware would even remotely consider the possibility of sidelining Garrus and Tali. The ONLY reason they sidelined the ME1 LIs was to keep them alive so they could have an impact in ME3. Of the 10 squaddies in ME2, six of them are LIs, which means they HAVE to play significant roles. Otherwise fans and players will feel as though the time and effort they put into wooing those characters, or even going out of their way to make ME1 Shepards SPECIFICALLY for the purposes of romancing ME2 characters (as I did) would've felt like a total waste of emotion and time.

Bioware would be comitting developer suicide if they even conceived of such an idea.

It's not so much as a case of developer suicide as it is having no reason to do such a thing.

[yoshibb]

RandomPot322 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

I'd much rather they simply focused on the big choices rather than conrad verner and the like. If there was just one key mission where things went different depending your choice on the council, I would be happy. In other words having two different distinct paths in that mission. I gave you an example above of a possibility.

You say have have faith, but unless we complain Bioware won't do anything. I said nothing and had faith that my choices would matter in the sequel. But I got nothing from it. Meanwhile, the people who asked again and again for more Tali/Garrus and better combat, got what they wanted. So I can't just sit quietly and have faith. I need to complain so they understand I will not be happy if they just scrap everything and go with a new crew. 

complain isn't the best way to get Bioward to do what you want.
What do you mean, you choices did matter, just not in the way you wanted. I liked the fact that they impacted in all sorts of small ways. It gave depth to the world.
And it doesn't matter if they go with a new crew. they basically did it this time around, and I don't see people ****ing that you can't have all those you kept alive? Not even half your crew back?
Come on, you're complaining to complain. You aren't even providing critisim. you're yelling at them for not doing exactly what you wanted.
You know what, I would love to have the choices to have bigger influences, but it didn't happen. I still loved the game, and they did have my decisions matter.
P.S. you not being happy means nothing.

How am I complaining to complain? Look around these forums, there are plenty of people complaining about the direction of Mass Effect 2. This thread is about asking for Tali/Garrus back in ME 3. I don't understand how you think choices really matter. They were the bare minimum that you could do. I don't know a better way to put this. 

It's unfair to Bioware not to speak my mind and then get angry because they didn't do the things I wanted them to. I'm trying to help them as much as help myself. They've made promises and if they don't keep them, then there will be a major backlash. If we all sat quietly, nothing different would happen and they all would assume that we were completely happy with ME 2.

I liked Mass Effect 2 a lot, but I could've been a lot better. And I'm going to tell them why. If you think that's complaining to complain, so be it.    

[unclee]

Sereaph502 wrote...

Personally, I think it would be easier on the bioware devs if they just made something like this:

Default Shepard: everyone survives the mission.

Then depending on what you import, you'd have a list of who died. And they just don't appear. period. Replaced by others, maybe.

They really don't need to be trying to make some weird alive/dead list for default considering all these options. Just make it simple: Everyone survived. If someone wants to import a save where some died, then their squad is either smaller or they get replaced. If someone imports a save with everyone alive, continue as is, maybe have an option to let a few squadmates go if they absolutely want to put the ME1 characters back in your squad.

^This. 1000x this. It would actually put some weight behind people dying in the end of ME2 (in the form of a smaller squad to choose from).

[RiotLaFontaine]

yoshibb wrote...

RandomPot322 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

I'd much rather they simply focused on the big choices rather than conrad verner and the like. If there was just one key mission where things went different depending your choice on the council, I would be happy. In other words having two different distinct paths in that mission. I gave you an example above of a possibility.

You say have have faith, but unless we complain Bioware won't do anything. I said nothing and had faith that my choices would matter in the sequel. But I got nothing from it. Meanwhile, the people who asked again and again for more Tali/Garrus and better combat, got what they wanted. So I can't just sit quietly and have faith. I need to complain so they understand I will not be happy if they just scrap everything and go with a new crew. 

complain isn't the best way to get Bioward to do what you want.
What do you mean, you choices did matter, just not in the way you wanted. I liked the fact that they impacted in all sorts of small ways. It gave depth to the world.
And it doesn't matter if they go with a new crew. they basically did it this time around, and I don't see people ****ing that you can't have all those you kept alive? Not even half your crew back?
Come on, you're complaining to complain. You aren't even providing critisim. you're yelling at them for not doing exactly what you wanted.
You know what, I would love to have the choices to have bigger influences, but it didn't happen. I still loved the game, and they did have my decisions matter.
P.S. you not being happy means nothing.

How am I complaining to complain? Look around these forums, there are plenty of people complaining about the direction of Mass Effect 2. This thread is about asking for Tali/Garrus back in ME 3. I don't understand how you think choices really matter. They were the bare minimum that you could do. I don't know a better way to put this. 

It's unfair to Bioware not to speak my mind and then get angry because they didn't do the things I wanted them to. I'm trying to help them as much as help myself. They've made promises and if they don't keep them, then there will be a major backlash. If we all sat quietly, nothing different would happen and they all would assume that we were completely happy with ME 2.

I liked Mass Effect 2 a lot, but I could've been a lot better. And I'm going to tell them why. If you think that's complaining to complain, so be it.    

Since ME3 will represent the culmination of all our choices, I think we're going to see the ramifications of some of the larger choices we made in ME1.  For those that spared the rachni queen, we already know she'll likely play a role in ME3 based on our encounter on Illium plus commentary on the Galactic News.

Also, ME2 has HUGE decisions regarding the genophage as well as the quarians.  They're presented in a subtle manner, but the impact that they have is enormous and without a doubt on the level of the rachni queen.

[RiotLaFontaine]

unclee wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

Personally, I think it would be easier on the bioware devs if they just made something like this:

Default Shepard: everyone survives the mission.

Then depending on what you import, you'd have a list of who died. And they just don't appear. period. Replaced by others, maybe.

They really don't need to be trying to make some weird alive/dead list for default considering all these options. Just make it simple: Everyone survived. If someone wants to import a save where some died, then their squad is either smaller or they get replaced. If someone imports a save with everyone alive, continue as is, maybe have an option to let a few squadmates go if they absolutely want to put the ME1 characters back in your squad.

^This. 1000x this. It would actually put some weight behind people dying in the end of ME2 (in the form of a smaller squad to choose from).

The only issue with this is that it will encourage players who had heavy losses to simply start fresh in ME3 for full roster access.  They'd need to create a canon set of survivors, but it'd need to be logical as to who lives and who dies.  They handled this very well with the ME2 default.

[Paragonsheperd]

Tali and Garrus all the way! If these 2 are in my squad in ME3 I will be happy.

[D3thray]

I fully expect Bioware to write ME3 with a specific ME2 canon playthrough in mind, i.e. everyone survives, regardless of what actually happened in your personal ME2 playthrough simply because everyone but Joker could die.  That combined with the wide fanbase and the interests of good story telling simply means they have to do this.  They'll probably have canon choices as well simply because they are huge choices, i.e. did you destroy the Geth or save them, did you destroy the Collector Base or save it, did you kill Samara or Morinth.  There were honestly no choices of this magnitude in ME1 that would have a serious impact on the current storyline.  You destroyed Virmire and had no option of preserving it.

[RiotLaFontaine]

D3thray wrote...

I fully expect Bioware to write ME3 with a specific ME2 canon playthrough in mind, i.e. everyone survives, regardless of what actually happened in your personal ME2 playthrough simply because everyone but Joker could die.  That combined with the wide fanbase and the interests of good story telling simply means they have to do this.  They'll probably have canon choices as well simply because they are huge choices, i.e. did you destroy the Geth or save them, did you destroy the Collector Base or save it, did you kill Samara or Morinth.  There were honestly no choices of this magnitude in ME1 that would have a serious impact on the current storyline.  You destroyed Virmire and had no option of preserving it.

Thanks for pointing out the geth choice as well.  That makes three choices (aside from the base) that offer a larger galactic impact than rachni queen/council survival/Anderson.

[epoch_]

I need my two alien sidekicks or else the reapers are going to get me.

Modifié par epoch_, 01 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[sp333dd3m0n]

epoch_ wrote...

I'm so happy this thread is taking off

I need my two alien sidekicks or else the reapers are going to get me.

There have been so many people to whom that applies. I for one had both of them throughout both games. And most everybody had at least one of them in their party for the majority of either game. I think it's safe to assume that we'll be getting both back, and they'll more than likely be squad mates.

[epoch_]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Is it safe to say Garrus and Tali are the 2 most popular characters?

It certainly seems like it. Not sure how you couldn't like their characters after their loyalty missions. Especially Tali's.

Modifié par epoch_, 01 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[epoch_]

Paragonsheperd wrote...

Tali and Garrus all the way! If these 2 are in my squad in ME3 I will be happy.

Yup, these guys are the ones I'll really be gunning for. I like most/all of the squad mates so far but it just wouldn't be ME without these two.

[pri0ndisease]

Here's my rundown on what will happen.



First of all, BioWare stresses SO much on character development that they will NOT sideline anyone important to a great extent. Even Liara/Ashley/Kaidan haven't been entirely sidelined - they are sure to be back in a big way for ME3. Garrus/Tali are anchors for the series, and I don't see them being anything other than squadmates.



Lets not forget, Cerberus have brought people back from death before. Tali, Garrus and Miranda are all important members of the crew, and Cerberus might have learnt quicker and easier ways to do it due to the success of Project Lazarus. Expendable characters (characters probably not returning to a combat role) probably wouldn't get the same treatment as Garrus and Tali, thus making saving everyone still far more ideal to the player. They could explain it that Cerberus ships sent to investigate the area found only these few corpses, and decided to bring them back. A weak plot device, but one that could possibly work, and one I'd be mostly OK with. It could also be used for ANY of the characters that BioWare decides are integral to the story (but I'm sure they'd keep it to a minimum).



Liara - Will be back in a combat role. Most obvious choice for returning.

Kaidan/Ashley - Will most likely be back in a combat role.

Wrex - Won't return in a combat role, for the reasons he didn't return in ME2. Will be a key player in the Krogan storyline though.

Garrus & Tali - Back somehow, even if 'dead'. Too iconic for the series to lose.

Miranda - Probably back in some form, maybe not a combat role though. Perhaps an advisor.

Jacob - Probably just a cameo appearance. He's not particularly important.

Mordin - Guy is like 50, and Salarians rarely live past 40. I'm guessing if he is saved, we'll get a cameo of him on his deathbed or something.

Jack - A possibility of returning. Her story didn't seem entirely finished. I'd like to see a more mellowed, wiser Jack (but still psycho and powerful).

Grunt - A doubtful return. Probably a nice cameo with the Urdnot clan. Perhaps he'll even try to kill Wrex and take his position, as opening the tank seemed a big decision with no discernable consequence in ME2.

Samara - Wont return to combat, perhaps will return as an enemy if you went renegade. She mentions that she hopes for the sake of your friendship that you never see each other after her oath is over, because she's seen you do things that make her have to kill you by her Code.

Thane - We'll probably get a cameo of him living out his last days. Won't return to combat.

Legion - Could be replaced by another Geth. They're all practically the same being anyway. Potential squadmate.

Zaeed - Just a cameo. Perhaps not even that.



As an aside, I'd LOVE to fight along Aria T'Loak. We know she can handle herself, and will definitely have a major role at least.

[Sereaph502]

pri0ndisease wrote...


Legion - Could be replaced by another Geth. They're all practically the same being anyway. Potential squadmate

If you talk about Legion he tells you that there is only one Geth out there like him, and that's him.  All other geth can't talk, and are pretty much inferior to legion in every way.  Chances are he might return, given his obsession with SHEPARD COMMANDER

[Imperator_Romanorum]

As potential love interests, I assume they'll both be back in some manner provided they live (and by not revealing Tali's face I suspect they're trying to continue to capitalize on Tali's loyal legions). I don't think there's any reason to assume that they or other ME2 characters will have their romance plots lessened in comparison to the ME1 romances. Granted Liara and Kaiden/Ashley may play a bigger role in the overall story, but that doesn't necessarily involve the romance plots, and a good number of people willl have playthroughs in which ME1 romances were not pursued.

However, I think that including Tali and Garrus as squad members as well in ME3 would add a lot to the experience. They provide a core of continuity and have been with Shepard through (almost) all his/her adventures. They will have insights and experiences that others will necessarily be lacking. Tali is among the most loyal to Shepard personally, she makes it clear that Shepard is the most important person in her life after the loyalty mission, and the Normandy literally is her home for the time being. Garrus has left behind just about everything else and seems to have made Shepard's cause his own raison d'être. They both have plenty of potential for storylines in ME3; Garrus has his ties with the Turian military and his father, and Tali could have a particularly compelling storyline if she has to deal with the possibility of the Quarians compromising with the Geth.

Bioware put a good deal of emphasis specifically on developing relationships with the characters in ME2 and a number of them don't seem in a hurry to leave, or might not even have anywhere else to go. I'd be sadly surprised if Bioware discarded them as squad members in ME3, and Tali and Garrus both have good reson to be included.

Modifié par Imperator_Romanorum, 01 février 2010 - 05:16 .

[huntrrz]

epoch_ wrote...

Seeing as this is the final act in the trilogy, all LIs MUST be considered as squadmates.

I gotta say something that will be REALLY unpopular...

There is absolutely no guarantee that we will be playing as Shepard in ME3.  This is the easiest solution to all the variations on which characters return - if the PC is not Shepard it doesn't matter.  New crew, affected by the choices 'Shepard' made in the first two games.

That would incite torches and pitchforks, but logistically it is the easiest solution...

I trust Bioware to come up with a solution we will enjoy.

(Hmmm...  Maybe the intro could have the 'surviving' characters pass the torch to a new PC.  That way a lot of variations could be handled without having to be reflected throughout the game.

Mass Effect 3: The Next Generation )

[Corti78]

huntrrz wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Seeing as this is the final act in the trilogy, all LIs MUST be considered as squadmates.

I gotta say something that will be REALLY unpopular...

There is absolutely no guarantee that we will be playing as Shepard in ME3.  This is the easiest solution to all the variations on which characters return - if the PC is not Shepard it doesn't matter.  New crew, affected by the choices 'Shepard' made in the first two games.

That would incite torches and pitchforks, but logistically it is the easiest solution...

I trust Bioware to come up with a solution we will enjoy.

(Hmmm...  Maybe the intro could have the 'surviving' characters pass the torch to a new PC.  That way a lot of variations could be handled without having to be reflected throughout the game.

Mass Effect 3: The Next Generation )

Except Bioware already said we are playing as Shepard as the ME trilogy is Shepard's story. If the ME2 Shepard dies a import save is not made and ME3 will not exist for that Shepard. You will have to play as a default or go back through ME2 and survive.