22 réponses à ce sujet

[Ratsneve]

I'm still having a huge problem with tactics.  This is my second time through the game.  The first time I gave up in the tough boss battles and used a trainer to sustain party health only.  That was an elf mage.
In this second play-through the PC is a human rogue but the first boss battle against an Ogre once again required the health assist though it was close a couple of times.  I've learned that backstabbing is a great tactic for the rogue to use and I think I've been successful several times.  However...is there any way for the rogue to use his backstabbing tactics in a real-time battle or is it always going to be turn-based?  I really would like to get away from turn-based.

[soteria]

If you mean, can you set up tactics for your rogue to get behind targets and backstab, then no. Once you get Coup de Grace, though, you can use a stun and backstab people in the face so it gets easier.



Honestly, I haven't used tactics a whole lot--I end up controlling my party a lot of the time. I've heard the advanced tactics mod is good, though. You could try watching some of the videos in my signature to see how I use a rogue in different fights. Chokepoints, Denerim Guards, the Tower of Ishal, and maybe one or two others are done with a rogue.

[Ratsneve]

Thanks for the input Soteria. Since I forgot to pickup around the top of the tower and missed getting Havard's Shield even I replayed the Ogre. It took two tries largely because I still forgot to heal characters. The second try I healed a couple ones getting weak and move the PC and party around. I poisoned my weapons and got in several backstabs. But I also switched to the family sword rather then the daggers. Anyway the Ogre dropped and the Rogue finished him off neatly. I searched the place and got the missing items. So that was my first successful boss battle without cheating!
1) I'm wondering about a couple things. If you don't use a character and leave them in camp they continue to level up on their own. Would it really matter much if I only manually level up the PC but let all the NPCs level up automatically--even ones I use in the party? I'm pretty sure Morrigan picks up healing on her own--I guess that's the big if because if she doesn't the party has to stick with potions. I know...I can leave them to manually level up, save the game, turn automatic on and see what they do and if it doesn't make sense restore and do it manually!
2) I gave the necklace to Morrigan and the silver bracelet to Alistair because it wasn't earmarked for anyone else. They both said their 'wows' and I got +5 points from each.
3) Can you/should you order the party? If I select the lead character first they will be in front and the rest will follow.
4) One thing I want to build up early is lockpicking so I don't miss a chest; Coupe de Grace; Lethality; and Momentum; stop Strength at 20 so I can get the drakeskin leather; build up Dexterity and Cunning as far as I can; Max-out Coercion and Poison Making... I think I need Weapon Training too and what else?
5) The problem is I don't want to spend time with every NPC's stats/spells/skills/and talents  I've got though maybe I will and get over it?

Modifié par Ratsneve, 02 février 2010 - 01:35 .

[dkjestrup]

I hate tactics too, and would ignore them. Sadly though, you can't move around characters you aren't controlling in the console version (why bioware?!) so I need them.

[SusanStoHelit]

The vanilla tactics suck. I hate to have to micromanage all my party. If I want to play a mage, I roll one and play them. I don't want to control them while playing a rogue. For me, a party is only for dialogue, and bodies to help in combat. I don't want to control each and every single thing they do. By stopping twice every 1.5 seconds.



And Advanced Tactics helps a lot, although it doesn't fix everything. The latest version - just a couple of days ago - now lets backstabbing companions actually manoeuvre for backstabs - without you having to position them.

[Silensfurtim]

as a Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale player, the crappiness of the tactics mode doesnt bother me. i love to play DAO the way I played BG and IWD.



I hate auto-characters and auto-mode. its so cheesy and it lacks challenge.

[Kupacmac]

I spend a lot of time updating and tweaking my party's tactics. I'm impressed with how much control Bioware gives you with them, you just have to learn what the capabilities and limitations are. The default tactics are crap IMO, adjust them yourself. There are a few things that are missing, but you can pretty much make the non-controlled characters behave as you see fit.

[haroldhardluck]

Ratsneve wrote...
I'm still having a huge problem with tactics. ...

The Tactic screen and its options work really well but you do have to select
the right options and it is not obvious which options work best.

The order is important. For example with a mage, the Petrify Spell followed by the Stonefist spell always results in a one/two punch that usually Shatters the foe.

The first slots tell the character to use healing and lyrium potions. Then comes the attack commands.

I normally have the mages run through their spells on nearest enemy. Warriors and rogues go through their special attacks sucn as Overpower, Sweep, etc. Disabling attacks (Dirty Fighting, Paralyze, etc.) are usually the first attack and the last is a general attack any enemy. Nearest Enemy works better than Any Enemy as sometimes your characters will decide that the farthest enemy is as good as any.

As a result, I can usually leave my characters to fight on their own most of the time. I usually take them over to target bosses and for crowd control such as Cone of Cold. There are options to target bosses but I find that there are usually not enough slots for most characters to devote one just to bosses. The only reason for controlling the rogue is backstabbing. The extra hit points are worth it for bosses. Otherwise I let the rogue cycle through his Tactic options.

Harold

[soteria]

1. They gain experience back at camp, but you have to bring them into the group and level them up all the same. I do NOT recommend letting the game auto-level them, unless you're willing to play on normal or easy. The game will make a real mess of things.



2. Yes, those gifts and a few others can be given to anyone for +5, rather than the +10 they get if they really like it.



3. Generally, when you're exploring, it's best to select the toughest character and control them when you're running into danger. That way they get hit with all the nastiest spells first.



4. Your plan is pretty good for your character. You'll want to consider what specializations you're taking. Duelist/Assassin is pretty good for a dual wield rogue, although Bard and Ranger are strong enough as well.



5. I recommend getting used to it and levelling your companions as well. It doesn't take very long--just max Morrigan's magic, and give her cone of cold, crushing prison, heal, sleep, and death hex. Alistair, give him more or less equal strength and dexterity until he can wear massive armor, then just raise his dexterity. You'll want him to have taunt, shield expertise, and shield mastery. For Dog or a Sten or Oghren raise their strength mostly.

[Ratsneve]

3. I think I'm finally figuring out this tactic after going about 1.2 times through the game now.

5. Thanks! This makes some sense with what I've been doing. I'm thinking Sten is better then Dog. He's the first into massive armor and two-handed sword but even he can't wear the Blood Dragon Armor yet and iirc that still isn't the best armor in the game.



This is as good a place as any to add this new item... My rogue trap detection 'sucks'. She just sets off the traps but never detects them in time. Is this because you not only need the Talent 'Deft Hands' tier to disarm a trap (which I have) but you also need the Skill 'Trap-Making' tier to detect a trap. Since the PC rogue isn't detecting the traps successfully that must be my starting point on this. Thanks.

[haroldhardluck]

Ratsneve wrote...
This is as good a place as any to add this new item... My rogue trap detection 'sucks'. She just sets off the traps but never detects them in time. Is this because you not only need the Talent 'Deft Hands' tier to disarm a trap (which I have) but you also need the Skill 'Trap-Making' tier to detect a trap. Since the PC rogue isn't detecting the traps successfully that must be my starting point on this. Thanks.

Cunning is what spots and disarms traps but Trap Making adds some points to spotting traps. I had one rogue with a Cunning of 32 with no Trap Making skills who did just fine spotting and disarming traps. I recommend getting one level in Trap Making and concentrating on increasing Cunning as it is useful for far more than just traps for a rogue.

Harold

[Ratsneve]

Funny... Right after posting this we had a random encounter between locations with Darkspawn and a dozen traps. After killing the DS the rogue could easily see and approach each trap and right click and disarm each trap. So her skill/talent seems to be working fine. The first trap-making doesn't mention trap detection but the second one in from it does. The traps that the rogue messed up on was on the bridge to the tower at Soldiers Peak. She missed every one of those and got her foot stuck in all of them. It really doesn't matter to much because I'm playing on Easy and the damage, if any, is nothing.

[Kupacmac]

My biggest problem with traps is being able to target them while enemy are jumbled around them. The game seems to want to target enemy first. Even using the D-pad I had a hard time finding the traps. Eventually I learned a trick to it... whenever your PC Rogue detects a trap, instantly open up the wheel thingy. Then you can pan around and find/target the traps easily. It sucks that the game pauses when you do that.

[TUHD]

Kupacmac, I take it you play on console then?

On the PC, it is easy. When your rogue detects a trap, pause and sent them there manually (unless they're dead of course, which happens often enough if you don't watch them closely).



Ratsneve, some advise:

- Each party member you use should use the lowest kind of potion you have when they're below 25% health. That should *normally* give sufficient breathing space to drink a potion. When facing a high dragon or another very tough enemy, attempt to give the potions to them manually - otherwise you'll find a very powerfull overwhelm, slam or 'pick&return' used against you, which likely will then will be an instant kill.

- I found out that Zevran has his tactics always set OK. He's the ONLY partymember/rogue I found so far who about never needs adjustement in his tactics. Another exception is Dog who just needs a slight change - but at higher levels, take other party members unless you've got no others.

- On the contrary, Morrigan can be a total disaster at times (that she suddenly goes melee. WTF???!)

- Wynne, Alistair, Shale and Leliana need adjustment at Hard and Nightmare difficulties - you *can* leave their current tactics at what it is as Normal, and don't bother at easy.

[Les Polar]

HAROLDHARDLUCK, I started this game as a Rogue and with all the traps that I have disable I gain a lots of XP to level up through the course of the game.Rogue can be tough as nail if you upgrade as DUALIST.

[Ratsneve]

Thanks... The problem still may remain that my rogue does not detect traps...and as far as that goes nothing said so far confirms the problem. The rogue PC's Cunning is 22 and Dexterity is 25+2. Yes, I'm playing on Easy so I don't need to hear about hard core tactics. I am avoiding needing to use the trainer this time which is great! She is one tier into stealth, 3 tiers into detection, and has no trap making. The party is having a pretty easy time now in battles including the bosses. I am pausing when needed to heal. I largely am still forgetting to use a variety of offensive & defensive potions which I wish I could somehow remember to use--it would be more fun! As I indicated in the op the trap detection didn't work at all on the bridge but was Very obvious and worked 100% in the random encounter a few minutes later--go figure. If I do need trap making then from the descriptions it looks like I may need the second tier since the first does not mention detection at all? Thank you for the helpful advise by all.

[Les Polar]

RATSNEVE, Next time your Rogue level up, put all the points on cunning for attributes (30+) and point trap making for talents and do not forget combat training.

[soteria]

You don't really need trap making. As others have said, just high cunning. Personally I think ~30 dexterity and ~50+ cunning by level 20 works pretty well.

[TUHD]

Well, trap making allows a faster (since further away from it) detection of traps at level 2 and 4 trapmaking

[haroldhardluck]

Ratsneve wrote...
Thanks... The problem still may remain that my rogue does not detect traps...

I suspect that the ease with which a trap can be detected is a variable. I noticed that in the deserted building in Denerim, my rogue is able to detect the first floor plate only half the time but detects the second floor plate all the time. However all the other traps are detected.  Similarly in the walkway to Avernus' tower about half the time my rogue can detect the traps and half the time my rogue cannot detect the traps.

Harold

[Ratsneve]

I just finished playing Return to Ostagar today and it was easy and fun though I recognized some minor things in it that even though BioWare delayed its release were not fixed. Anyway, I'll post that somewhere else. The PC rogue detected all the traps and disabled them except for the trip wire. You could see the trip wire and there was a path to walk around it over the snow but there was no right click recognition to deactivate it. The other foot traps were no problem. Although I could walk around the trip wire the rogue decided to set it off which brought a number of baddies running. The party doesn't seem to take any damage to speak of from traps--maybe because we are in Easy. Speaking of Easy / Normal Mass Effect 2 apparently allows you to change the difficulty on the fly. That might be a nice feature for DAO too if you are single player?  I actually might replay battles at higher levels to see what they might be like for the fun of it--call it sandboxing if you will.

Modifié par Ratsneve, 04 février 2010 - 09:16 .

[Ratsneve]

CommandoShepard wrote...

The strategy guide has some nice info on tactics that help though the character builds in there suck. I'm also surprised that you've beaten the game without getting a good feel for tactics. I guess I just prefer to control my main character and have everyone else follow and provide support, and setting good tactics for allies makes things much easier. Usually, the only time I switch away from my tank is when I need to tell Leliana to disarm a trap.

I think what you missed reading because I may not have made it that obvious in this post is that my first time through the whole game I used a trainer for health only.  This second time through I have so far been focussing on understanding tactics and like you control my PC and have everyone else follow and provide support.  I do a lot of backstabbing with my rogue now without even pausing and the mage keeps the party healed up.  She likes to cast earthquake though which I think I will change.  Friendly fire doesn't hurt because its Easy but the whole party like the baddies gets knocked down a lot.