35 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Capt. Obvious wrote...
First of all, point out to me where in the first post he was being negative?

Can do.
"Bioware storylines are copypasta"
"Bioware also seems incapable of [...]"

about something with no real arguments to back up his claim in a place where fans of this thing were meeting

He was only active for a day. He was still holding his point before he went offline. The argument that QuiTamGogh presented wasn't entirely that good either. Seagloom seemed to have a much better argument than QuiTamGogh, and that's the only time that I viewed Question2's response to her first post in the topic as not really that meaningful.

This has little to do with the point I am making.
(as was already pointed out) the only "argument" he has is a very vague scheme that would basically fit any RPG ever developed*.

And the response to QuiTamGogh is a classic straw man argument. Rather than responding to the "The point is that if you abstract a story to a certain point, it is the same as every other story", Question2 only answered to the weaker points.

Proper response? Whether he's a bad debater or not, it doesn't make him a troll.

I'm not talking about quality here, mind you. I'm talking about the simple willingness to be responsive to someone else's arguments. In my opinion, a straw man argument is proof enough that you are unwilling.

By saying, "Good day to you, Sir Troll", that's offensive. Anyone could assume that you are trying to hurt the person. Hell, again, if you knew he was a troll in the first place, why do you bother when you know(or at least I think you know) that he will probably come up with a fallacious response?

As I already said, I was willing to do some trolling until the mods would lock the thread.

There was nothing inflammatory about the message. It was a criticism brought up by him on BioWare's somewhat cliche story which it is, especially when you notice how it follows sort of the same story like it's other games.

And would you mind explaining this story to me, because I have played a number of BioWare games now and I really don't see it?

There was nothing outrageous about the post. Nor off-topic. Nor extraneous. Nor offensive. Nobody I see here was offended.

Define trollish.

It is behavior aimed to be provocative in nature in order to cause argument. Some common tools are insults, obviously incorrect statements, questionable statements without proper reasoning behind them, nitpickery, ignoring other people's arguments, starting topics that are certain to turn into flame wars...



*Yes, there may be exceptions. And the ancient evil thing, as I have already admitted, can be avoided... But that's beside the point I think.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 03 février 2010 - 01:55 .

[Dahn-Var Starcloak]

BioWare is simply sticking to a proven recipe. As long as it sells...

Xzaws wrote...

Question2, thank you for ranting for me. I have the same thoughts about this.
BTW, Are there any games with plot like in Planescape: Torment?
Just a good story without ancient evil, annoying heroic protagonist and saving the galaxy...

PS: T received relatively little attention. Methinks it was too unconventional and possibly too original (minus the protagonist with amnesia part) to be particularly attractive to the masses.

[Ponce de Leon]

I've heard a lot of people complaining about PS:T for the lack of making their own character with an appearance they'd like. But storyline speaking and else, it's a very nice game. Lot of good characters, good story, good idea in general. Also, brilliant way to use the Infinity Engine. In fact, I think that PS:T has the best graphics of all IE games.

BUT... would the game be possible without BioWare's engine to start with? I think not.

[smore006]

Without really reading the topic:

there's some rule that if you post (even "possible minor") spoilers, that's supposed to be done in the spoilers forum. Without having a game registered, that's not possible. Conclusion: you weren't entitled to post the thread at all, OP.

I'm sorry but reading a complaining post from someone potentially not even in the possession of said game(s) is just not fun.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

smore006 wrote...
there's some rule that if you post (even "possible minor") spoilers, that's supposed to be done in the spoilers forum. Without having a game registered, that's not possible. Conclusion: you weren't entitled to post the thread at all, OP.
I'm sorry but reading a complaining post from someone potentially not even in the possession of said game(s) is just not fun.

Uh, which spoiler forum would that be, Neverwinter Nights, KotOR, Mass Effect or Dragon Age: Origins? The only cross-over forum is here.
And by the way, this "rule" of yours is at times even broken by moderators, so it can't be that strict.
Example:
http://forums.biowar...585807&forum=17

Without really reading the topic:

Believe it or not, one can see that.

Why am I writing this, smore006 isn't going to read it anyway, is he?

[Seagloom]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Why am I writing this, smore006 isn't going to read it anyway, is he?

Probably not, but maybe someone else with the same ideas will read it and learn.

I have nothing meaningful to contribute in this post. Just wanted to chime in my agreement with dark-lauron on Planescape's graphics. It still has the best looing incarnation of Magic Missile in my opinion, and some of the higher level spells are amazing. That is all. >.>

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 février 2010 - 02:22 .

[LdyShayna]

Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...
PS: T received relatively little attention. Methinks it was too unconventional and possibly too original (minus the protagonist with amnesia part) to be particularly attractive to the masses.

Speaking for myself here - I disliked it because the more I played the game, the less I liked my own chartacter.  I also couldn't connect in any meaningful way to the NPCs.  The story was fine, and finding out what was going on was the only thing that got me to play even 3/4 through the game (at which point I stopped and just went out to get a synopsis to spare myself havign to finish it).

It wasn't really so much that it was original or different, but it was different in a way I found near impossible to relate to, and I need to relate to the characters in some way to care about a story or story based game.

[Vansen Elamber]

The only thing that kind of bothers me about the DA storyline is the fact that you do not get the choice to say no to the Grey Wardens. In fact in one playthrough I took every single dialogue choice that was against the Grey Wardens and Duncan still went ahead with the ritual as if I was a willing participant. At the very least they should have added the possiblity of the PC drawing his or her weapon and trying to kill Duncan, I think I could have done it to tell the truth.



Now I know the development time would have been about double what it was for DA but if they had two paths like that, one where you want to be a Warden, and the other where you kill Duncan at the ritual and become a renegade Warden, I would have liked that a lot more. But the game is fun none the less as I have played it through on pretty much every Origin the game has to offer...

[DarthCaine]

http://hellforge.gam...PG-Cliche-Chart

[Humanoid_Taifun]

DarthCaine wrote...

http://hellforge.gam...PG-Cliche-Chart

Interesting read.
Though some points are rather funny ("With your mission well under way, your every effort is thwarted by an evil or sinister organization" - Uhuh, would you prefer it if the enemy simply waited in their castle for you, as they did in the old Mario games?) others hold merit. It seems that BioWare has a very specific idea how a proper RPG should begin.