243 réponses à ce sujet

[skyferret]

Saskuatch wrote...

who here wants this to happen, I thought it was so lame this option wasn't available in this game, it seems like they almost included it because Tali does do some flirting with femshep  but doesnt go any further,

Given Tali's lines, I think they might have meant to, but didn't feel like having f/f without the choice for m/m too. (and though I'd want Tali romanceable for a female Shepard, I wouldn't want it without that equality)

Of course, Kelly and Morinth kind of go around that, but that's how things go sometimes. Neither of them's a true love interest; they get a looser leash.

[RVonE]

Naltair wrote...

I can see that, we can disagree on her character traits but nothing has really made her seem bisexual or lesbian by any means and she seems for all intents and purposes a more "normal" member of her gender for her species. Maybe my interpretation is incorrect but I never caught any vibe that she would pursue a same sex relationship even before ME2 came out.

I think that was just wishful thinking on many people's parts.

Edit: I think she does have a fixed character, a set of traits that we can say is Tali and not Tali.  Just as they can be applied to Wrex, or any other character.  Even Harkin's role in ME2 is consistent with his portrayal in ME1.  Liara breaks some of her mold but that is because she had some traumatic events happen to her.

Here I agree mostly with you. The thing I'm trying to say is that the notion of Tali's character is ultimately dependent on her writers. If the writers decide that in ME3 she'll be totally jaded and cynical about saving the galaxy, then at that point that has become her character. I'm not saying that Tali shouldn't have a fixed character, I'm saying that there are plenty of examples that show that writers often change their minds or try to 'evolve' a character--and this, more than the notion of it not being in her character, determines her sexual nature in ME3. I mean, I somewhat feel that way about what they did to Garrus (it is explained in the story quite well, but he's not quite the Garrus that I've come to know in ME1).

[Naltair]

I understand.



To me I see Garrus aka Batman aka Archangel as a natural progression of who he was in the first one. He is a man obsessed with justice by any means and working within the rules will not work for him.



But yes you are correct they could totally change her up next go around, and that would be her character I just hope they keep it consistent.

[Saskuatch]

so it is perfectly in character to have a romance across species with entirely different means of reproduction etc, but all of a sudden someone is the same sex as the alien and the alien is going to say ewwwwwwwww. I mean thane is a lizard and probably has a cloaca, and he still gets it on with femshep.

[Naltair]

Saskuatch wrote...

so it is perfectly in character to have a romance across species with entirely different means of reproduction etc, but all of a sudden someone is the same sex as the alien and the alien is going to say ewwwwwwwww. I mean thane is a lizard and probably has a cloaca, and he still gets it on with femshep.

I am not saying it totally makes sense but sure, it's obvious she finds human males attractive or at least Shepard who is a hero as is.  She explains quite clearly her interest in one of the sweeter lines in the game I must add.

I am not saying it makes total but sense but I guess sure she just isn't into women of any species in that way.  Despite being different species there seems to be in the ME universe any way a set of traits that define males and females not so much physically but definitely emotionally and psychologically.

[Saskuatch]

Naltair wrote...

Saskuatch wrote...

so it is perfectly in character to have a romance across species with entirely different means of reproduction etc, but all of a sudden someone is the same sex as the alien and the alien is going to say ewwwwwwwww. I mean thane is a lizard and probably has a cloaca, and he still gets it on with femshep.

I am not saying it totally makes sense but sure, it's obvious she finds human males attractive or at least Shepard who is a hero as is.  She explains quite clearly her interest in one of the sweeter lines in the game I must add.

I am not saying it makes total but sense but I guess sure she just isn't into women of any species in that way.  Despite being different species there seems to be in the ME universe any way a set of traits that define males and females not so much physically but definitely emotionally and psychologically.

the only reason you get to that line is because you are male shep, the dialogue was written specifically for that, its not that it was in her character bioware has always made mass effect as a personal experience and how your decisions are what effects matters. So you playing as male shep from me1 to me2 is what impacted Tali's character, helping her on her pilgramage etc. But someone else playing the game as femshep did the same thing, Tali's character is dependant on the choices you make. I mean than if you sell out her father she shouldnt be interested in your regardless.

[this isnt my name]

I hope she never is, same for most characters because most people want everyone to swing both ways, honestly not everyone dose so its the same ingame.

[Naltair]

Saskuatch wrote...
the only reason you get to that line is because you are male shep, the dialogue was written specifically for that, its not that it was in her character bioware has always made mass effect as a personal experience and how your decisions are what effects matters. So you playing as male shep from me1 to me2 is what impacted Tali's character, helping her on her pilgramage etc. But someone else playing the game as femshep did the same thing, Tali's character is dependant on the choices you make. I mean than if you sell out her father she shouldnt be interested in your regardless.

Well yeah being a certain gender is a choice that has a large impact on the game and how people react to Shepard.  gender roles matter, not to say one is better than the other as to say the choice makes a difference in the outcome of the narrative on a personal scale. 

It affects who wants to be intimate with you and who does not and how people first perceive Shepard.

But we are getting off topic with is Tali as a female LI, it isn't in game the choice is moot and I doubt that will change.

[Saskuatch]

this isnt my name wrote...

I hope she never is, same for most characters because most people want everyone to swing both ways, honestly not everyone dose so its the same ingame.

this is a game based on your choices it is essentially a choose your own adventure type thing, when you play the characters can be straight etc etc it shouldn't affect it when someone else plays. With that logic than if you are a renegade Shepherd that committed the genocide of the rachni and other atrocious acts then there should also be characters that don't swing both ways in terms of morality. But if you are evil incarnate you can have a relationship with the same sweet innocent Tali.....

[Naltair]

It is an interactive story, but there are limits.

technical limits not so much the morality or sexuality ones.

Just mean there is no infinite resource, they have to make choices.

Overall ME2 is a triumph of those choices.

Modifié par Naltair, 01 février 2010 - 01:49 .

[Brahlis]

Gay romance is gay.



No, seriously, what's the point? To whet the appetite of a very small group of fans? Not worth the time.

[Saskuatch]

Naltair wrote...

Saskuatch wrote...
the only reason you get to that line is because you are male shep, the dialogue was written specifically for that, its not that it was in her character bioware has always made mass effect as a personal experience and how your decisions are what effects matters. So you playing as male shep from me1 to me2 is what impacted Tali's character, helping her on her pilgramage etc. But someone else playing the game as femshep did the same thing, Tali's character is dependant on the choices you make. I mean than if you sell out her father she shouldnt be interested in your regardless.

Well yeah being a certain gender is a choice that has a large impact on the game and how people react to Shepard.  gender roles matter, not to say one is better than the other as to say the choice makes a difference in the outcome of the narrative on a personal scale. 

It affects who wants to be intimate with you and who does not and how people first perceive Shepard.

But we are getting off topic with is Tali as a female LI, it isn't in game the choice is moot and I doubt that will change.

ok than Tali on a whole is a softie, who would take the higher moral ground, why would she at all choose to pursue a shepherd who she has witnessed execute people, ignore people in need and let them die, even give that quarian in the first mission to cerburus and let him suffer at their hands.

[SomethinNothing]

A character having simply the potential to swing either way has no effect on you or their character unless you choose to pursue that route. Some of you talk about the potential of Tali being bi as if it would make her an entirely different and completely unappealing character to you when she wouldn't really change at all.

[Xena_Shepard]

I would've enjoyed it, but in the end I'm happy it was in the game at all.

[Jared_704]

What do quarians think of homosexuality anyway?

[Saskuatch]

Jared_704 wrote...

What do quarians think of homosexuality anyway?

I would imagine them to treat it the same as interspecies romance....I mean they would be opposed to homosexuality why? because it is unnatural? and interspecies sex is? but in the ME universe interspecies relations seem to be the norm of things........

[Naltair]

Saskuatch wrote...

ok than Tali on a whole is a softie, who would take the higher moral ground, why would she at all choose to pursue a shepherd who she has witnessed execute people, ignore people in need and let them die, even give that quarian in the first mission to cerburus and let him suffer at their hands.

That question goes for any Love Interest though not just Tali, and I don't have a good answer beyond the limitation of the medium and the fact that these games just don't have a complex AI algorithm to account for all those variances.

As to the statement of why it matters, it does not I am just sating that she isn't but I do have a slight ulterior motive in the belief that not every character needs to be bisexual, just for popularity sake.  In fact I would go on record as to say that making Liara the bisexual option although in-character for her species was a bad move on BioWare's part since there was no "equivalent" for men and set a bad precedent.

As to my own personal tastes I don;t care overly much for same sex relationships at all, but you are all entitled to them as you please.

Modifié par Naltair, 01 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[Saskuatch]

Naltair wrote...

Saskuatch wrote...

ok than Tali on a whole is a softie, who would take the higher moral ground, why would she at all choose to pursue a shepherd who she has witnessed execute people, ignore people in need and let them die, even give that quarian in the first mission to cerburus and let him suffer at their hands.

That question goes for any Love Interest though not just Tali, and I don;t have a good answer beyond the limitation of the medium and the fact that these games just don;t have a complex AI algorithm to account for all those variances.

As to the statement of why it matters, it does not I am just sating that she isn't but I do have a slight ulterior motive in the belief that not every character needs to be bisexual, just for popularity sake.  In fact I would go on record as to say that making Liara the bisexual option although in-character for her species was a bad move on BioWare's part since there was no "equivalent" for men and set a bad precedent.

As to my own personal tastes I don;t care overly much for same sex relationships at all, but you are all entitled to them as you please.

in mass effect you take the role of your character and pretty much shape the entire glaxy to what you please from mass genocide of species to giving factions crucial technology, saving colonies or letting them burn. If a character where bisexual and you played the game as a straight male shep then in your universe that character would be straight how would them adding flexibility and a slightly wider range to the game affect the character you percieve when you play. I mean I play my main campaign as a paragon in my world the rachni are alive and the collector base is destroyed, it doesnt matter to me what a renegade shep did and does not detract from my main campaign, why would a characters sexuality alter your perception of a character whom you are molding

[Jared_704]

I don't think we should change already existing characters to be bisexual. Make a new character in ME3 that swings that way is the way to go.

[Kyero]

/sigh i was wondering when some kid was gonna post this.



Tali = STraight



End of Disgussion. sorry, stick with your non-gendered Asari race.

[Saskuatch]

Jared_704 wrote...

I don't think we should change already existing characters to be bisexual. Make a new character in ME3 that swings that way is the way to go.

again how would it  be changing anything, because in your universe consistancy would remain.................as far as I know when I played ME1 and ME2, both as femshep multiple multiple times, Tali's character never showed a tendency to prefer one species or sex, hell there is not even any mention of her being in any relationships at all.

[Naltair]

I am not sure what you are arguing but everything you said is nothing that I even mentioned.



Your choices have 0 impact on mine, I am only debating the topic of why I think that arguing for a Tali same sex relationship is moot because it is written in stone that she is heterosexual.



The end.

[Saskuatch]

Naltair wrote...

I am not sure what you are arguing but everything you said is nothing that I even mentioned.

Your choices have 0 impact on mine, I am only debating the topic of why I think that arguing for a Tali same sex relationship is moot because it is written in stone that she is heterosexual.

The end.

where is it written in stone that she is heterosexual, please I would like to see this evidence.

[Naltair]

Saskuatch wrote...

Jared_704 wrote...

I don't think we should change already existing characters to be bisexual. Make a new character in ME3 that swings that way is the way to go.

again how would it  be changing anything, because in your universe consistancy would remain.................as far as I know when I played ME1 and ME2, both as femshep multiple multiple times, Tali's character never showed a tendency to prefer one species or sex, hell there is not even any mention of her being in any relationships at all.

If she does not try to romance you in ME2, then she showed a tendency right there.  You shape the story yes but the universe is in no place to bend to your will and change people's character because you wish it to be so.  You can argue till you are blue in the face but that won't change.

IF they change it, then they will, but I have serious doubts they will.

[Astalder]

Honestly I'm not sure BioWare has anything to gain from giving people same sex romances at this point. Why accept the grief on a game they want to heavily market when, frankly, the small segment of their fanbase that cares hasn't demonstrated a capacity to be satisified in like five years of their products. Asari don't count, the bisexual DAO elf is too stereotypical (he's so bad in fact that the character is dead to me), we want Garrus, we want Tali, we want Wrex, etc etc... geesh. Any other developer would have thrown up there hands a long time ago and said to hell with it. I don't even care personally... so long as it's obvious if I'm about to make that first move and I can make the teammate what I want I really don't care, but all these threads... they just make me want to write the movement off.