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[Lord Atlia]

My take on the Reapers. The geth call them the old machines, perhaps a reference to the old gods of Lovecraftian fame. They probably have limitless age unless someone kills. Every so often they go to the galaxy and pick races of power and process them into a new reaper (a god representing that race) and build up their pantheon. Like the old gods their motivations for doing this are probably beyond comprehension or logic.

[AlphaJarmel]

Veritasinpersonam wrote...

My take on it so far is that the Reapers use this as their method of reproduction. Considering the revelation of the 'many minds one will' of the Reapers, they probably harvest only what they consider to be the best races into a new Reaper, which appears to be something of an expression of each race.

Its akin to selective breeding, they look for the best stock in order to reproduce.

This make some sense as it falls into what they were trying to explain with Legion in that human minds can't comprehend an inorganic one.   They mention in the codex I think that it's hard for people to imagine how a software only oriented mind would work.  We can't understand the Reapers because we are organic in nature and it being somewhat inorganic is hard to imagine.  Not that their motives or goals are beyond our comprehension, it's just that it's too foreign.

The genetics part is correct as NPCs keep mentioning how humans are different due to their genes and their personalities.  Samara mentions how every human is unique and Mordin says how humans have such wide diversity.  This falls into line with the Reapers.  Each Reaper is to be able to act on its own, as its own nation or country and humanity fits well into this description as we are all unique and different.

[Jigero]

Who said the reapers are immortal? for all we know the machine side of them maybe immortal, but the organics might need replacing, they might even go bad after 50,000 years and need a fresh supply. Also Reapers aren't the squid ships, that's just a vessel of the reapers, the reapers are just a collection of minds with in the vessel.

[AlphaJarmel]

Jigero wrote...

Who said the reapers are immortal? for all we know the machine side of them maybe immortal, but the organics might need replacing, they might even go bad after 50,000 years and need a fresh supply. Also Reapers aren't the squid ships, that's just a vessel of the reapers, the reapers are just a collection of minds with in the vessel.

They're pretty damn close to immortal.  If you can last 50,000 years in hibernation in dark space then you're for all intents and purposes, immortal.  Just because it hasn't been tested yet doesn't make it false.

[Jigero]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Jigero wrote...

Who said the reapers are immortal? for all we know the machine side of them maybe immortal, but the organics might need replacing, they might even go bad after 50,000 years and need a fresh supply. Also Reapers aren't the squid ships, that's just a vessel of the reapers, the reapers are just a collection of minds with in the vessel.

They're pretty damn close to immortal.  If you can last 50,000 years in hibernation in dark space then you're for all intents and purposes, immortal.  Just because it hasn't been tested yet doesn't make it false.

immortal by human standard but to them 50,000 year may just be a weekend break, Albert Einstein said all time is relative. The Asari don't veiw them self as immortal,  but they live alot longer then any other race.

[AlphaJarmel]

Jigero wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Jigero wrote...

Who said the reapers are immortal? for all we know the machine side of them maybe immortal, but the organics might need replacing, they might even go bad after 50,000 years and need a fresh supply. Also Reapers aren't the squid ships, that's just a vessel of the reapers, the reapers are just a collection of minds with in the vessel.

They're pretty damn close to immortal.  If you can last 50,000 years in hibernation in dark space then you're for all intents and purposes, immortal.  Just because it hasn't been tested yet doesn't make it false.

immortal by human standard but to them 50,000 year may just be a weekend break, Albert Einstein said all time is relative. The Asari don't veiw them self as immortal,  but they live alot longer then any other race.

Again I don't think duration is a problem for them.  When you reach into the millions of years category, you've pretty much become immortal.  All of their ships look pretty pristine and capable.

[FREEGUNNER]

Sovereign said "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension". So their ultimate goal may be unexplainable to us much like teaching a dog quantum physics or describing color to a blind person.

Modifié par FREEGUNNER, 01 février 2010 - 02:51 .

[AlphaJarmel]

FREEGUNNER wrote...

Sovereign said "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension". So their ultimate goal may be unexplainable to us much like teaching a dog quantum physics or describing color to a blind person.

Again I think it's like trying to understand an advanced form of the Geth.  Legion and the codex mention how hard it is for organics to understand how the Geth work and the Reapers a step beyond that.  It's not so much past our intellect but rather so foreign to us.  I would say describing color to a blind person is probably the best analogy.  It's not so much the blind person being stupid but its beyond their "hardware" if you will.

[mrs_anomaly]

It would be difficult for non organics to understand us as well.

[AlphaJarmel]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

It would be difficult for non organics to understand us as well.

To an extent but we're easier to read due to our "hardware" of chemicals controlling our emotions and reactions.  We rely on emotions and morality to guide us while something only based on software has no concept or perception of emotion.  Legion mentions this a couple of times in that they understand us but can't respond like us.  Legion is really the most interesting and philosophical character in the game as he brings a whole new depth to the game.  Too bad you only get him at the end.

[Madolin]

Lord Atlia wrote...

My take on the Reapers. The geth call them the old machines, perhaps a reference to the old gods of Lovecraftian fame. They probably have limitless age unless someone kills. Every so often they go to the galaxy and pick races of power and process them into a new reaper (a god representing that race) and build up their pantheon. Like the old gods their motivations for doing this are probably beyond comprehension or logic.

I was wondering if anyone else thought of the Reapers as the Elder Gods from H.P. Lovecraft. I kept expecting Cthulhu to pop out, towards the end of ME1. XD

[Arquibus]

The "beyond your comprehension" line is just what intelligent, arrogant enemies always say about their plans. Looking through science fiction and fantasy, aliens, robots, dragons, wizards, demons, etc. have all been known to say such things to the adventurers that encounter and try to thwart them. The idea that we cannot comprehend something is merely underestimation of our intellect. It's the assumption of an evil genius that his victims are far beneath him. Its a defense mechanism to make mistreatment of others ethically safe, because one is simply superior. Thinking of the Reapers as having the same sort of motivations we have, albeit on a different level, is probably more conducive to learning their actual intent.

[AlphaJarmel]

Arquibus wrote...

The "beyond your comprehension" line is just what intelligent, arrogant enemies always say about their plans. Looking through science fiction and fantasy, aliens, robots, dragons, wizards, demons, etc. have all been known to say such things to the adventurers that encounter and try to thwart them. The idea that we cannot comprehend something is merely underestimation of our intellect. It's the assumption of an evil genius that his victims are far beneath him. Its a defense mechanism to make mistreatment of others ethically safe, because one is simply superior. Thinking of the Reapers as having the same sort of motivations we have, albeit on a different level, is probably more conducive to learning their actual intent.

I think in this case Sovereign is actually correct.  Their minds are so radically different than ours it would be like having a dog try to understand how the human mind works.  Dogs act on instinct and humans not so much among a thousand other things.  It's such a different viewpoint, it's impossible to look at it and understand how it works.

[Fuzzyrabbit]

They harvest because for all their advanced technology they cannot exist for hundreds of thousands of years without degradation. They need resources for repair and reproduction. Also, they are not what might be considered an "organic" AI like the Geth. They have trouble learning, and need organic races to develop along new branches of technology they wouldn't have thought of, so they can improve upon those developments and improve themselves.



Their ultimate purpose in drawing out their existence for so long and building such a powerful fleet is unknown. Maybe they're worried about an even more powerful enemy. I mean, if you think about it, some species would have had to have knowingly made the enormous sacrifice of lives necessary to create the first reaper. Hundreds of thousands of their own people, dissolved alive and filtered into a synthetic shell. For what purpose? What made them so desperate? What could such an advanced race be so afraid of?

[Pexxithan]

Another reason why the reapers would cull the galaxian populous every so often is to add certain traits to their own. This would be a driving reason behind harvesting *only* humans instead of the other species in the universe. As far as we know in the past two cycles, humans were the only ones to stand up to a Reaper and destroy it. Of course they would be wanting to add whatever traits humans possessed to their own. To know your enemy is to be your enemy.



At the same time, the Reapers also need servants to serve their own purposes. Which is why they converted the protheans as well as the keepers. And if you have a species that is able to thwart your servant's progress, it's just worthwhile to keep them around in some fashion as well (for the protheans it was their modification of the keepers). I'd be willing to bet that the Collectors themselves are actually the surviving protheans from Ilos.

[SunfighterG8]

Take it from Vigil people!



Your survival depends on stoping them, not on understanding them!

[Shannara13]

SunfighterG8 wrote...

Take it from Vigil people!

Your survival depends on stoping them, not on understanding them!

“Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.” -Sun Tzu

[Veritasinpersonam]

Sun Tzu never had to fight giant race sucking organic/tech horror amalgamations.

[MerrickShep]

Flacracker wrote...

Dellingr wrote...

the reapers harvest organics for their biomass (which they use to construct new reapers, since they're not entirely synthetic after all), and it takes 50,000 years for enough biomass to develop to make a decent number of reapers. It's their method of reproduction

Yeah I know that but why do they need to make more?

So they can continue, continuing the cycle.

[Myrmedus]

I have two theories on them:



1. Service to organic life and the Universe as a whole.



They wipe us out every 50000 years to keep organic life, and Universe as a whole, safe from our own volatile natures and exponentially increasing advancement and population. We're not systemically 'accounted for' in the Universe because we're not in balance with our surroundings, which means eventually we'll destabilize things.



The Reapers come and wipe our organic life when it starts hitting a critical point, remove all the technology so the next wave of organic life doesn't advance too quickly and allows them to live for a period of time until they become a threat to the galaxy/Universe/themselves once again. A select few who prove themselves are given the opportunity to 'ascend' to a higher level of existence instead of being killed, not unlike the Rapture in Christian belief.



2. Survival



Both through procreation and eliminating impending threats. The rate at which our technology increases, increases itself, as time goes on - because of this exponential behaviour it means eventually it will go out of control, boom into an advancement singularity and we'll ascend as will our technology. If that happens we're a threat to the Reapers so they wipe us out before that happens.



The one weakness of that theory is I don't see much POINT in Reaper survival if they don't have some other goal. All they do is destroy, reap, procreate and sleep - for a species so intelligent you'd expect more than more instinctual behaviour.

[Shannara13]

Veritasinpersonam wrote...

Sun Tzu never had to fight giant race sucking organic/tech horror amalgamations.

The same reasoning still stands. Knowing your enemy is important. It helps to predict what they will do so you can defend against it and it helps you manipulate them into doing what you want.

Modifié par Shannara13, 01 février 2010 - 04:00 .

[acbernie]

I don't think the end 'boss' is a reaper. Its far too small isn't it? Plus ILM's smile at the end of the game if you hand him the collector base isn't too inspiring Plus the reapers shown at the final bit of the game seem to all look alike.

[MerrickShep]

acbernie wrote...

I don't think the end 'boss' is a reaper. Its far too small isn't it? Plus ILM's smile at the end of the game if you hand him the collector base isn't too inspiring Plus the reapers shown at the final bit of the game seem to all look alike.

It's an incomplete reaper.

[acbernie]

Point! But look at the body, for what its worth that metal framework is going to be the basis on which the Collectors/Harbringer are going to add the skin/shell to it. Its still tiny!



*Aside* Wouldn't it have been awesome if they did finish building it and the thing attacked the citadel? Imagine the cinematic!

[Arquibus]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Arquibus wrote...

The "beyond your comprehension" line is just what intelligent, arrogant enemies always say about their plans. Looking through science fiction and fantasy, aliens, robots, dragons, wizards, demons, etc. have all been known to say such things to the adventurers that encounter and try to thwart them. The idea that we cannot comprehend something is merely underestimation of our intellect. It's the assumption of an evil genius that his victims are far beneath him. Its a defense mechanism to make mistreatment of others ethically safe, because one is simply superior. Thinking of the Reapers as having the same sort of motivations we have, albeit on a different level, is probably more conducive to learning their actual intent.

I think in this case Sovereign is actually correct.  Their minds are so radically different than ours it would be like having a dog try to understand how the human mind works.  Dogs act on instinct and humans not so much among a thousand other things.  It's such a different viewpoint, it's impossible to look at it and understand how it works.

I disagree. The Reapers were created by organics. When asked, Sovereign doesn't deny this, but deflects it. The Reapers were created with an organic purpose in mind. Whatever that purpose was, their software approached it from a different perspective, and wiped out the creators. However, apart from what everyone generally has been saying about not understanding an AI's processes and decision making, they tend to approach things from a simpler, rationalistic mindset which only gets complex when you examine how many variables they process. The way we process information is not so different, even if we account for fewer variables because our abilities and time frame are lesser. I fully believe they have an understandable goal in what they are doing.