265 réponses à ce sujet

[daoster]

I guess the thing here is, do the ends justify means? For TIM and Cerebus as a whole, yes, the ends justify the means. And Cerebus can do what they do because they're not really responsible for governing. It's easy to throw near unlimited resources when you have one goal in mind, it's another thing to devote time and resources when you're also responsible for Citadel Space.

And whatever Cerebus' original goal at its inception was, it's obvious it's been severely warped. That's made obvious enough when you disobey TIM's orders at the end and tell him to screw off.

The reason why TIM didn't install a controlling chip wasn't because he didn't want to go overboard. He didn't install it because he didn't want to get a diminished Shepard. Mordin says that mind control, by indoctrination or otherwise, diminishes intelligent and free thought. TIM wanted the Shepard that defeated Saren and Sovereign (even as a Paragon in ME1, he went rogue for the original mission, remember), not a diminished Shepard that was being controlled by a chip.

Though I don't think a Full Paragon Shepard would ally himself with Cerebus to stop the Reapers in the next game anyways...screw Cerebus and screw the Council, Shepard will probably just be doing things his way.

Modifié par daoster, 01 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[Garuda One]

This thread is becoming a Paradox. Not to mention that this thread is black and white. The majority of the people in this thread ether strongly agree with OP or people who strongly disagree with the OP. Not to mention the OP is long gone.

[mamba 12]

I felt the same way at first. But when i found out TIM sold me out, i knew there would be a chance to cut ties with Cerberus. Thank you, Endgame.

[Guaritor]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

To the OP I completely agree with you. I despised Cerberus. Bioware's 'story' reasons for why you had to work for them had more holes than a sieve. The whole concept of Shep dying, Cerberus and Shep's synthetic upgrades not to mention the treatment of Wrex, Liara, Kaidan/Ashley made this game a fairly hateful experience for me.

Holes?  They're seriously the quickest way to save uncountable human lives... any paragon worthy of being called paragon would take that option.

I like how they handled Wrex, nice to know my best buddy is doing what he always wanted to do, save his entire species.  Ash kinda dissappointed me, i thought after all we had she would trust me, though she did send an email afterwards.

The upgrades I can live with, its likely shep had upgrades before he died anyway... if you do the sidequest with the pregnant lady and genetic modification of their baby in ME1, the one dude says its no more harmful then the modifications that all soldiers get.

[Mallissin]

@gethsemani87: LOL, nice. So true.



I still don't think the majority of the other posters get it. You got to play for the "good guys" in the first game (Alliance was the cooperative Paragon) and the "bad guys" in the second game (Cerebus was the drastic-measures Renegades). Come the third game, everyone lines up with you and you decide which type of universe will survive the Reaper invasion.



This gave all of us a chance to try all four sides of the coin, meaning you could play a Paragon in a Paragon world, Renegade in a Paragon world, Paragon in a Renegade world or Renegade in a Renegade world. Of course the characters in their respective environments have a leg up, why would you expect something unnatural?



Anyway, I'm sure there were plenty of Renegade players who were annoyed they had to play nice in the first game and they looked silly complaining, but now Paragons get a chance to look like crazies too and a few are exercising that right in this thread.



Well played by Bioware!

[danien.grey]

Since most points have already been argued over and over again, and since we're beating a Dead Horse, I have to get my two cents in too.



I don't want to repeat anything that's already been stated; I just to throw a juvenile suggestion out there: You know, you could avoid working for Cerberus at all and just not play the game?

[Terraneaux]

I don't want to repeat anything that's already been stated; I just to throw a juvenile suggestion out there: You know, you could avoid working for Cerberus at all and just not play the game?

That *is* juvenile.  We're talking about ways we believe the game could have been better.

[Mallissin]

Terraneaux wrote...

I don't want to repeat anything that's already been stated; I just to throw a juvenile suggestion out there: You know, you could avoid working for Cerberus at all and just not play the game?

That *is* juvenile.  We're talking about ways we believe the game could have been better.

Really? Because it feels more like a whinefest. OP is annoyed he has to work with gangsters in the Terminus systems, which are pretty much the government on each world, yet had no problem working with the Council who caused two genocides (Rachni and Krogan). Bioware intentionally balanced the two like that to give you some perspective and perhaps make you realize that both have their faults you'll have to overcome later.

[Terraneaux]

I just think that the writer or writers really, really wanted Cerberus to be front and center in this story, at the expense of protagonization and setting integrity. Yeah, the council are idiots and Cerebus is the only way, apparently, but that's because *they wrote them that way*. The thing that makes the second episode 'dark' are, apparently, Shepard's inability to think outside of the box and his apparent insistence to work with cerebus. Much better intro? Have an army of Geth or indoctrinated Rachni attack and conquer earth as the second game opens, thus establishing that DAMMIT THERES NO TIME and giving an excuse for an all-human council to have a tenuous enough hold on the galaxy that there's a fair amount of reconciliation between the paragon and renegade me1 endings.

[Terraneaux]

Mallissin wrote...

Really? Because it feels more like a whinefest. OP is annoyed he has to work with gangsters in the Terminus systems, which are pretty much the government on each world, yet had no problem working with the Council who caused two genocides (Rachni and Krogan). Bioware intentionally balanced the two like that to give you some perspective and perhaps make you realize that both have their faults you'll have to overcome later.

My Renegade character is more what my complaint is in reference to.  He has no problem committing genocide ('Depends on the species, Turian!'), but is going to harbor a grudge the size of the Traverse against Cerebus for what happened on Akuze.  And it's not like this isn't something that Bioware couldn't have seen coming, THEY WROTE THE DAMN SOLE SURVIVOR BACKGROUND and I think it's even the default.  Now maybe EA was breathing down their necks for a release date and they didn't have the time to refine the story as much as they would want to, but the extensive protagonization of the Illusive Man at the expense of Shepard makes me doubt that.  The story is about Cerebus, and about how they're the only people with the virtues necessary to solve the problem.  Shepard's mostly along for the ride.

[TuringPoint]

Illusive man is not the protagonist. We wouldn't be following Shepard if he were. He wouldn't have brought Shepard back to life if he were the protagonist.

[vigna]

Many valid points there. As I was playing through--it is an RPG-- I played thinking that "those ***cks at Cerberus have put a bomb in my body or something worse". If I had been in Shep's situation I would be wondering how in the hell they even brought me back? If I disagreed would they threaten my friends? I played never trusting Cerberus and always kicking them in the 'nads when I had the chance. It helped greatly. It was restricting and constricting, but life can be that way as unrealistic as you find that scenario.

[Nozybidaj]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shepard's mostly along for the ride.

This was my main problem with the whole story.  Shepard in ME1 was a very strong willed character, a leader, and willing to do the right thing regardless of what others said or wanted.  The Council calls him a liar, he proves Saren is a traitor.  They tell him the Reapers are a fairy tale, he proves them wrong.  They ground his ship and tell him to stay out of it, he steals the ship and saves the galaxy anyway.

Now we come to ME2 and he finds out the most evil and vile organization from ME1 wants his help, what does he do?  Just does what he is told?

TIM:  Shep we need your help.
Shep:  Wait aren't you the bad guys?
TIM:  Nah, we're the good guys now, lolz.
Shep: Ok, lets go, lolz.

I get the whole "work with the devil to do the right thing" angle on it but that doesn't mean we should just flat out trust and follow the devil's orders without any sort of resistance at the least or outright sabotage of his other plans at best.

Apparently when Cerberus rebuilt Shep they forgot to give him a backbone.

[Mallissin]

Terraneaux wrote...
My Renegade character is more what my complaint is in reference to.  He has no problem committing genocide ('Depends on the species, Turian!'), but is going to harbor a grudge the size of the Traverse against Cerebus for what happened on Akuze.  And it's not like this isn't something that Bioware couldn't have seen coming, THEY WROTE THE DAMN SOLE SURVIVOR BACKGROUND and I think it's even the default.  Now maybe EA was breathing down their necks for a release date and they didn't have the time to refine the story as much as they would want to, but the extensive protagonization of the Illusive Man at the expense of Shepard makes me doubt that.  The story is about Cerebus, and about how they're the only people with the virtues necessary to solve the problem.  Shepard's mostly along for the ride.

Alright, so a Renegade in the Renegade world feels like Cerebus is being made out to be the "good guys". Why's that surprising? Cerebus are Renegades too and TIM your counterpart. You're the Renegade with a small team doing great things and he's the Renegade with a huge organization that has troubles succeeding. Had you not blown the collector base, it would probaby be the first genuine success for Cerebus.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if TIM was lying when he said he knew the collector ship mission was a trap. After playing ME1 and noticing time after time that Cerebus kept failing at almost every one of their own missions, they seemed really incompetent and desperate.

The fact they put Miranda and Jacob on your team, who are probably their only agents to ever succeed in anything (in Mass Effect Galaxy and the Lazarus project), means he was desperate enough to put all his good eggs in one basket and I bet blew almost all of the organization's resources to do it. They consistantly do Hail Marys that you interrupted in the first game and are the quarterback for the second.

So, maybe Bioware wanted you to feel enough pity for the guy to keep the base intact? The same sort of pity they used against you to save the Council in the first game? Wouldn't that be an interesting juxtapose in ME3, hmmm?

Modifié par Mallissin, 01 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[Terraneaux]

Mallissin wrote...

Alright, so a Renegade in the Renegade world feels like Cerebus is being made out to be the "good guys". Why's that surprising? Cerebus are Renegades too and TIM your counterpart. You're the Renegade with a small team doing great things and he's the Renegade with a huge organization that has troubles succeeding. Had you not blown the collector base, it would probaby be the first genuine success for Cerebus.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if TIM was lying when he said he knew the collector ship mission was a trap. After playing ME1 and noticing time after time that Cerebus kept failing at almost every one of their own missions, they seemed really incompetent and desperate.

The fact they put Miranda and Jacob on your team, who are probably their only agents to every succeed in anything (in Mass Effect Galaxy and the Lazarus project), means he was desperate enough to put all his good eggs in one basket and I bet blew almost all of the organization's resources to do it. They consistantly do Hail Marys that you interrupted in the first game and are the quarterback for the second.

So, maybe Bioware wanted you to feel enough pity for the guy to keep the base intact? The same sort of pity they used against you to save the Council in the first game? Wouldn't that be an interesting juxtapose in ME3, hmmm?

They don't mention anything like what you say, instead Cerebus is made out to be some omnicompetent organization who is the last hope for the galaxy.  Funny, I thought that was Shepard's job.  

Just a little nitpick, from the beginning of the game, there's that technician who was trying to kill Miranda, and you could *tell* he was not on the up-and-up by his dialogue options, but there's no opportunity to confront him, until Miranda shows up.  It just comes off as a ham-fisted attempt to make her look cool, in the same way that the beginning of ME2 comes off as a ham-fisted way to make Cerebus look cool.

[Mallissin]

You'd have to play the first game to see most of the blunders in side missions. There's one or two blunders in the second game as well.



http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Cerberus



I think the confrontation you mention was meant to make her seem cold and regret-less, yet you find out the opposite in the later loyalty mission. Just a way of building the contrast. No more silly than Thane's entrance or Legion's introduction. All meant to provide a small bit of surprise now and a little for latter too (if you make the effort).

[Merchant2006]

Well, all I can say is that if BioWare makes you hate a certain group in the game, or makes you love a certain character, the moment that love/hate appears then it's a sign that they have done a great job in making an amazing game.



It's like acting, if you can make the audience love/hate your character and portray it in that way, you've done a good job in acting. (Hate as in... grrr... what an arrogant c*nt, or ahhh I love that person, so kind, not 'I HATE DIS ACTING') xD

[Malanthris]

I think there are many issues and varying degrees of justification.



Really, people always seemed skeptical of the exact scale of the reaper threat. It seems most people were of the mind that the threat was mostly played up. Then you "die". Suddenly you're alive again two years later and attached to Cerberus. Of course no one is really going to trust you now.



These are, of course, plot devices in a story that is being told by Bioware. Like it or not, it's their story. One can easily poke holes in it if that is the goal. It's not hard to poke holes in just about anything ever created. I chose to just enjoy the story as a bit of entertainment.



As someone that plays through as both paragon and renegade (though I prefer the "paragon" path) I didn't find it too difficult to justify things. You never really agree with Cerberus. Plus the saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" can hold true. If one pays attention you'll notice that protesters and rebels really very rarely get anything meaningful accomplished. The best way to enact change is from within. By the end you've brought just about every single member of your crew over to your line of thinking and better yet, you've built something even Cerberus, Council or Alliance can't stomp on. You've forged a team all loyal to you and cut a swath through the galaxy with every step. You've made a difference yet again and people everywhere will speak your name in respect or fright.

[ModernDayMoriarty]

I'm not quite gone yet, actually!

For a start, no I don't object to having criminals on the team, but there is a limit. I don't like having assassins and Jack is described as an insane, psychotic and extremely powerful murderer. That is just a little too far over the line for what I'd want.

My moral standpoint is explained excellently by Mordin - Sometimes it's about saving people, sometimes it's about killing dangerous people.

This game is different from others, in that there isn't any of the usual 'events that force you together' that explain why morally dubious characters can end up in predominantly good parties. It's an artform, where writers try to mold the story so a bond forms.

This games makes you actively go out and seek such people to recruit however, even if your personal morality would suggest you'd put a bullet through their head, before you'd ever consider letting them come with you. You're placing not only your life, but the life of your men in their hands, after all. You can't keep an eye on them all the time.

I'd have wanted to know far more about Jack and at least interview her, before I'd accept her (and she'd fail that interview, given who she is). Bioware have a history of giving pretty much everyone a sob story to try and win you over. I don't condone what was done to Jack, but I don't condone what she did to her victims either.

Piracy, kidnapping, murder... I'm sorry, but there's no place on my team for such a person.

The real issue wasn't even about that though, was it? It was about the morality of throwing that switch, endangering all those lives just to get the job done. And people can quote from the 'Needs must' textbook of warfare - but they're adoptng the Renegade view.

My character's view is that she doesn't need someone that dangerously unstable threating her crew and undermining their morale in battle (Kelly is very nervous about her, as is Joker). So she certainly wouldn't risk all those lives, just to get her out.

My character isn't stupid - that's the whole point. Just accepting Cerberus' views IS stupid. She is never given any evidence whatsoever that the Reapers are involved in this. And she certainly has other options, if you were just allowed to articulate them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have ended up with Cerberus, anyway. I know there is a limit to how the game can bend its story. I've always accepted that. But the way it's handled shows no respect for the Paragon players intelligence and deliberately stifles them to fit the story.

Because they want it to be a kind of 'Paragon Shepard joins Cerberus because she must, but like Saren and Sovereign, is slowly acclimatised to their ways etc', so they can have their scene with Ashley or Kaiden where they say 'Oh, do you even believe you're doing it your way anymore etc etc.'

I'm sorry; it'd be a nice idea, sure. But Shepard knows full well what Cerberus is like and how dastardly they are. No amount of retcon is going to change that fact for people whose personal morality says that torturing and experimenting on innocent people is just hideous and a crime, regardles of circumstance.

Asking people to put aside morality and the need to make the wicked pay for the good of all etc, is the Renegade way of doing things. And in a game that claims to allow full control of what your character thinks, you've got to allow for the fact that some don't want to play their Shepard like this.

And that requires much more from the dialogue than this game allows you. Even if we do end up working alongside Cerberus, we need to feel we did everything we could to find another way, that the reasons why we can't are well written and considered (and not biased 'The Man hates your guts and won't look out for the Little Guy' 'isms). 

And we want the opportunity to be at least as judgemental and confrontational with Cerberus and TIM as 'Gades were allowed to be with the Alliance and Council (you can KILL the Council for crying out loud!) 

And what's all this talk of the Council and genocide?

The Council did not cause two genocides though, did they? The Rachni were insane and couldn't be reasoned with. The Krogan were the ones who exterminated them and do you honestly think they would have listened if the Council said to go easy?

As for the Krogan, it isn't a genocide (though my Paragon does consider it a dubious solution at best). I'm loath to discuss the Genophage, because it isn't a very good storyline anyway. It's just a wishy washy rerun of the Tremere/Assamite Blood Curse story from White Wolf's Vampire: The Masquerade.

I mean, you can't go to war because you can't replenish numbers fast enough? How long are you planning on this war taking?!

And let's put this 'There's no time to do it the Paragon way' to bed, shall we?

You;'re forgetting that Shepard has to spend what even at a conservative guess, is months criss-crossing the Terminus systems, to recruit this new crew. The travel times and quests when they arrive, mean Shepard is wasting months out there.

Impounding the Normandy would remove the need for that. A crew can be arranged in days - unless the entire Alliance are all on holiday!

Impounding the Normandy and rotating an Alliance crew on would take a fortnight at best. You have your Spectre status back and carry great weight with humans anyway (and humanity has a C-Sec captain in the docking bay). 

Cerberus are on record as of ME, for commiting various atrocities, of which you have proof - you download info several times at Cerberus plants for example. Has all this info just disappeared all of a sudden? That would mean an outrafeously far reaching conspiracy - which is never hinted at.

So you have grounds to arrest them - quite apart from the fact they've showed up in the Normandy! Do you not think the Alliance and Turian military would be just a little suspicious of that? They can only have acquired those plans through espionage, bribery etc. 

So let's not be bandying time around. The need to recruit a new team and then win their loyalty takes -ages-. That is something that wouldn't be needed with a Citadel/human crew - Shepard's their hero and she's just returned from the dead!

Again, I'm not saying this should have actually happened. I know that the sequel needed to be darker and working for Cerberus is an interesting concept. It's just the railroaded execution and insistance on trying to retcon Cerberus into something not quite so black as they were before.

Take your conversation with Miranda later in the game. You ask her again why she works for them. You mention the medical experiments and say you saw their monsters.

But then she reels off excuses, saying this that and the other about husks being dead already and rachni being a dead race etc. And Shepard just sits there and accepts it, only mentioning Jack's treatment - but accepts Miranda's 'It wasn't me' excuse!

What about Akuze? What about Toombs? What about Kahoku? Why doesn't Shepard ask EDI to get Kahoku's wife and children on the line, so Miranda can explain how great Cerberus are to them?

And what about the Thorian Creepers? Even if we accept that Cerberus had no hand in this with Exogeni (which I don't believe for one second, but hey...), what did she think they were going to do with this knowledge of creepers?

Just use the ones they have and never make any more? Please!

They'd be studying how to make more creepers before the milk got cold, and to make more you need more test subjects to convert. She seriously needs to wake up and Shepard should have been able to say something about any of this.

But all we get is 'Why do you like Cerberus?' Have you ever heard a lamer, more timid question? 

It's because Cerberus is being retconned. Bioware are cherry picking the bits that don't seem so bad and largely just ignoring the rest of it, because it's inconvenient to how they want Cerberus to appear in this game.

And lastly, this debate is made so awkward because Bioware have been so damning in their writing of the Council and Alliance. They haven't written them with anything like a realistic or sensible touch. 

As Cerberus have been retconned into something less black, the Council is made to go back completely on the Paragon end sequence, where Udina is all fire and wrath about the Council getting involved and doing its bit. And the Counscilors (even the Turian one) have come right around on Shepard (and it isn't just for Shep's benefit, because they talk like this after she has left and only the camera - i.e us) is left on them.

But in this game, they went right back to writing specifically to make people dislike the Council and they've prettied up Cerberus for the cameras something fierce in this one.

And that just frustrates. The Conrad 'You were a jerk who put your gun in my face' mistake is indicative of the whole 'But we assumed you'd be Renegade' approach that permeated the game.

I don't want to belabour this (too late, I know) and I honestly had intended to move on. It just really did ruin a game that I'd been looking forward to, so I guess that's why I took a final look over the thread.

I'm not looking for trouble - I don't think anyone here is. It's just been a bitter pill to swallow.

And to the guy who said I was gibbering whilst huddled over my computer. Well, it's less of a huddle and more of a crouch really... 

Seriously, behave. Forums are for debating issues that interest us. I think it's obvious that even if we disagree, this is a subject that definately interests us.

 

 

Modifié par ModernDayMoriarty, 01 février 2010 - 11:31 .

[bbfan13]

I love this topic.  I completed my first playthrough and these issues never really hit me.  It had been a while since I had played ME1 so this didn't ruin the game for me.

I did make one mistake though when I started the game.  I imported my level 60 Shepard not thinking that this was just a speed playthough on insanity.  I didn't do any side missions, no li, etc...  So I didn't get the full experience I was expecting.  Not wanting to go back an reload the level 48 version of the same Shepard that did complete everthing I decided to make a new ME1 character to bring in the things I wanted to bring to this game.  That is when it hit me that there is no way I would ever work for Cerberus.  I just complete the Cerberus base mission with the dead Admiral.  Sorry, my spacer/war hero/paragon isn't going to be able to overcome that.

I am very surprised that the writers would allow such an obvious contradiction to occur in what is a fairly well writen story.  Maybe they expected most people to be like me and have forgotten a little bit so we wouldn't care.  They should know better with Sci-Fi fans!

The thing that is troubling to me is that the fix for this is so simple that I can't believe they didn't think of it.  I apologize if this has stated before.  I have read about 2/3rds of the posts and haven't seen it.  One tiny plot change and a few dozen lines of dialogue.  Instead of telling me in the first five minutes that I am working with Cerberus, tell me at/near the end of the game.  The rest of the story could stay the same.

Your first reaction might be that not figuring out you were working for Cerberus would make less sense, but I disagree.

- It is not unreasonable that given the events of the last two years that humanity would have lost track of Cerberus.
- Don't you think that Cerberus would take advantage of the confusion and maybe change their name so that they are not advertising that they are a black ops group that went rouge shortly before the events of ME1?
- Many of the points of the OP would have made sense with the team sucking you in without knowing who they really were.
- The ending would have been cleaner with you decision to destroy or save the collector ship and the final conversation with TIM would have great!
- The Liara L.I. story would have fit better and could have been done in ME3 instead to help explain why she was so cold.  (Thank you You-Tube for showing me what I missed due to my loading error)
- The investigation into who really built the ship could have started when you arrived at the Citadel and you meet Anderson.
- You would feel that same sense of betrayal that you felt when you realized that Morrigan was just using you to make a baby in DA:O.

Obvioulsy the story is written and can't change.  I love the game but I still think it is fun to discuss these issues.  This form of entertainment is still in its infancy and the ME series is showing us where it can go.  I really approve of what Bioware is doing but I also believe it is our responsibility as gamers to show that we care and push them to be better with constructive criticism instead of just flaming at what we don't like.  We expect our books, movies and TV series to be tightly written.  I think we should strive for no less in this medium.


  

 

[RuinerGaming]

I wish when you met Ashley/Kaidan they would give you a ultimatum to leave Cerberus or lose them.



I SO wanted to ditch them after what they did in ME1, and Captain/Admiral/Council member Anderson would most likely give you a ship if you had left Cerberus even if the council would not support you themselves.

[ModernDayMoriarty]

Great idea in my opinion, BBfan, but there are 3 problems that I can see with it.

1) It would definately be leaked onto the internet and everyone would know anyway.

2) Even if you somehow avoided that, it would be probably be one of those 'You saw it coming ages ago' things.

3) Bioware were already coming under fire for repeatedly putting in plot twists a la M Night Shaymalayan.

I'm a massive, massive fan of detective fiction and this teaches you all the little tricks to spotting twists. I clocked the KOTOR 1 twists straight away for example. It's not brainpower, just the fact that it happens so often in 'Tec fiction.

I saw Revan was wearing a helmet and thought 'Why have they done that?' I ran through the likely possibilities and could only come with one as a credible answer - and it was correct.

But yes, in principle, that might have been a better way. It just would have been very difficult to keep that secret.

[Jonathan Shepard]

You make such a good point, but here's the thing--
Cerberus did give you your life back (they used your DNA to reconstruct you-- in theory, it's possible, so I had no qualms with that), but you're right about Paragons not being able to call out TIM when they should be able to... and I never thought about discussing the whole life-death thing and religion. But the religion thing would've been an even worse controversy than sex was the first time around, so I can see why that was avoided. As the discussion of the life-death situation... it's like Akuze. I wouldn't really want to talk about it either.

But in the end, if you bring Miranda with you, and go Paragon, she and Shepard both tell TIM to **** off basically, and at the end, he's so pissed off and so resigned that I did a happy dance in my heart. Shepard basically takes over Cerberus it seems to turn it around into something better. At least, that's my hope.

Though, in my first playthrough, I kept the station... seems smarter, and like the Paragon decision will actually backfire since, y'know, you can't use that tech against the reapers. I hope that's a HUGE influence in ME3, unlike how saving the council changes nothing seemingly from ME1 to ME2... the biggest change seems to be whether or not Wrex lives.

Modifié par Jonathan Shepard, 02 février 2010 - 12:15 .

[ModernDayMoriarty]

The whole 'Dead for two years' thing is just embarassing. It's basically forgotten as soon as it's mentioned, and Shepard takes dying withiut even losing a step! It's practically refererred to more in jokes, than in serious conversations!

If you're not going to explore the mental trauma and baggage that comes with that, then don't do it! It stretches credibility beyond breaking point, without just cheapening it in such a dismissive way.

It's irritating, because it seems to have been part of the 'Get everyone in the situation of needing to find a purpose in life'. And to do that to Shepard, you had to have all your friendships and romance and position etc taken away, so they could do their 'Accept the hand of the devil and find your new purpose...' story.

The breakup of the romances seems to have hit many people quite hard, as well. I know a lot of people really weren't thrilled with that.

Like with Liara... A kiss, how're you doing, back to business and never mention their romance again... What?!

If they're not to let you express your emotions and anger/sorrow at losing all of this, then it just becomes 'Plot McGuffin to make Shepard do X'.

It's not good enough.

[bbfan13]

MDM...Good Points



The first one doesn't bother me so much as finding spoilers is a personal choice. I avoided everything about this game like the plague. I was upset at the trailer they showed during the NFC championship game because I thought it gave away too much. After I finish, I will look up everything I missed, but I like surprises.



Your second point is valid and crossed my mind even while I was writing. I was thinking that you wouldn't be able to drop too many clues before someone would put it together. Thinking more about it, TIM existence might be enough for most people to figure out without some massive misdirection that could feel cheap.



Your final point never hit me but I must conceed 100%. Having played all of them exept Jade Empire, they do have a bit of a formula don't they?



Your points about Jack from the earlier post are good as well. I personally like the character, but neither of my Shepards would allow her out in public.