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[Vanguard Alpha]

llFlapjackll wrote...

Plain & Simple peeps.

Legion says that it may have been better for humanity to make there own future instead of letting the technology do it for you.

Bottom line the reapers are coming and they need to be stopped if one destroyed the base the chance of survival goes down just compare all the weapons on the normandy based on reaper technology without and then going thru the relay you would have died.

Saving the collector's base may very well jump technology a 1000 years ahead and we don't have 1000 years to just sit around researching stuff that doesn't exist.

So what if the illusive man plans on dominating the galaxy after destroying the reapers atleast we weren't systematically deleted from the galaxy!

The Reapers are coming and are the bigger threat here they need to be stopped.

Irrelevant, any techonological gains from the base would pale in comparison of what that massive reaper fleet is going to throw at the galaxy. In the end, all it would accomplish is shift the balance of power in cerberus favour and alienate the few precious allies Sheperd had.

The Protheans acted as one, they were more advanced and they got ripped apart, technology alone is not going to win this.

My guess is that Shepherd will need to perhaps, seek the Reapers creators, maybe look for races that have somehow survived previous harvestings, or find a way of stopping the fleet period because in a stand up tecnological fight with or without the base, The Galaxy would not be on the winning side.

[pelhikano]

I mostly chose the "keep the base" option because I'm curious how they will handle that as a consequence in ME3.

[Scharfschutzen]

I've decided that when facing extinction I'm a consequentialist, and the preservation of the collector base will have the consequence of providing the galaxy with the capability to fight the reapers more effectively, possibly remitting the threat of extinction, or destroying the reapers entirely. When the stakes are this high, it's no time to be philistine. We need this technology, no matter how it was created, who created it, or what it is.

[pelhikano]

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

Irrelevant, any techonological gains from the base would pale in comparison of what that massive reaper fleet is going to throw at the galaxy.

"Irrelevant" is a little too much I think, after all the Thanix cannon that was developed from the knowledge gained from studying the remains of Sovereign was pretty damn effective at killing the very powerful Collector ship, even when mounted on a relatively small ship like the Normandy. Studying the materials on the station would at least give some hints on how to progress, and with so many different races I think there are good chances someone comes up with an innovation that the Reapers may not expect.

[Jonathan Shepard]

john william wrote...

Sounds like you guys are the ones indoctrinated!

Seriously, all Shepard has to do is whisper to the alliance or the council about it. Problem solved.

Also: it's not a reaper ship. It doesn't have the natural psychological attack to it.

Precisely my reasoning and I hope every single person who chooses the Paragon choice has twice as hard of a time defeating the Reapers in ME3. I seriously hope so. Because Miranda knows where The Illusive Man is. She could kill him, since he's evil, and take over Cerberus with Shepard and use the base with the Alliance for good. 

There. Problem solved. So why the hell is saving the base Renegade? Makes no sense to me either.

[this isnt my name]

I blew it up, because TIM will use it to have a human dominance for the galaxy, I dont want it to be like that and am going to live with the consequences, and as te ship is made by reapers it wont do much as they know the tech and likely they know how to counter it.

[laffy007]

I'm all for saving the base-but do you really think the reapers are gonna go all hudson ( ) on us? Hell no, they're are going to take that base back faster than you can say "i'm such an idiot".

Also paragon= Let all races hold hands and sing

renagade= Screw the krogan, the turians,and any other scumbag race that aren't humans. Nuke em' let god sort it out, and progress means lives.

[paramite]

I picture it as being like the atomic bomb. Yes, it is a horrible creation, but it also ended WW2 and in the process saved millions of lives. It's also is a good way to keep contries from attacking each other (M.A.D.) 
The base is an abomination, but the knowlege gained from it can help defeat the reapers. Like others have mentioned on here, the thannix cannon is reaper tech.
I don't think that TIM will be able to just keep all the tech to himself, cerberus is too small to handle that many reapers shown at the end and it's not like shepard can't steal the data and give it to all the other races.
Also, how in the heck is TIM going to send a crew in there to research the base anyway? The normandy is the only ship with the reaper IFF, so he's going to have to have shepard involved and I'm definitely sharing the tech with everyone.

After all, it's not like you can't just blow it up later.

Modifié par paramite, 02 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[RandomPot322]

Four pages and this is the best thread I've ever read. So fun.

Just a thought though. Why does it matter? do we really care if you get a Renegade point for saving the base?

Bioware tends to define clearly what Paragon and Renegade. Helping Cerberus is Renegade, in any form. Notice all the paragon choices are "I'm not working for them, I'm using them".

So, helping Cerberus is saving the base, so Renegade.

If this has already been stated, sorry for repeating.

[aimlessgun]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

And so the cycle begins anew...
I love forums

Indeed, as soon as the people who were arguing/refreshing constantly have to go to work or class, a new crop springs up to discuss the same. Not a bad thing, really.

[FROST4584]

I am glad to see I wasn't the only person that thought that keeping the collector base was a good idea. This was discussed in another thread and things got heated. I will just some up my thoughts in addition too keeping the base. Anyone else felt like Bioware could have offered us a middle ground. I was dissapointed that their wasn't a option to share collector base with other races and the Alliance.

The two choices we had at the end of ME2 , were nothing , but to set up the TIM for Mass Effect 3 as Sheperd's big enemy. Destory the base he hates you. Keep the base, its obvious that will do something evil with it. Either way there will be two fronts. One will be the reapers and the  other will be the TIM.

Modifié par FROST4584, 02 février 2010 - 02:48 .

[LotharanAeron]

I don't really think there was any middle ground that was viable. You were on a Cerberus ship monitored by TIM. Your only way to transmit data at the time was to TIM. Based on what we know of him, and the incompetence of the council races in this matter, I highly doubt he would authorize this information being leaked to anyone else. You could do it anyway, but with his connections and your current lack of credibility with everyone else, these two choices are the only truly viable options.



I may be mistaken (I'll have to find the video again), but I swear I remember seeing Cerberus vessels closing in on the station after you turn it over to them.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Lets give one of the most powerful pieces of technology to an organization that has done horrible experiments on human beings and for the most part are terrorists. Might as well give it to Batarian pirates. No thanks. Saving the galaxy needs to be a collective effort, not an anthropomorphic one.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 02 février 2010 - 03:23 .

[Inverness Moon]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Saving the galaxy needs to be a collective effort, not an anthropomorphic one.

The council and the alliance seem to disagree with you.

[jxd73]

Because we are supposed to fly around the galaxy and pretend to be everyone's mom.

[HeyUder]

I chose to keep the base as a paragon shepard, and that came after much thinking between the two choices. I figured that each choice had equal side effects, and each was a 50/50 choice, like so



Keep it:

- Risk of Illusive Man being bad, using it to further aid Reapers/destruction

- Chance the Illusive Man uses the technology to give humanity a BIG edge



Destroy it:

- Risk of destroying something that could save a lot more lives when the reapers attack

- Chance that you destroying it deeply hurts the Illusive Man's possibly insidious plan



I think the Illusive Man should continue to be morally ambiguous right until the end of ME3. Talk about an interesting character. I hope he ultimately turns out to be good and disappears, with no one finding out his true identity.

[aimlessgun]

LotharanAeron wrote...

I don't really think there was any middle ground that was viable. You were on a Cerberus ship monitored by TIM. Your only way to transmit data at the time was to TIM. Based on what we know of him, and the incompetence of the council races in this matter, I highly doubt he would authorize this information being leaked to anyone else. You could do it anyway, but with his connections and your current lack of credibility with everyone else, these two choices are the only truly viable options.

I may be mistaken (I'll have to find the video again), but I swear I remember seeing Cerberus vessels closing in on the station after you turn it over to them.

You control the ship at this point, your whole crew is loyal is expresses dislike of TIM. It wouldn't be difficult to tell lots of people and to provide lots of evidence. It's not like Shep can't jack the ship. He just has better things to to do during the mission. Afterwards wresting it from TIM should be a piece of cake when you can devote your whole effort to it. Take ship>bring Galactic News to collector base.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 02 février 2010 - 04:17 .

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Saving the galaxy needs to be a collective effort, not an anthropomorphic one.

The council and the alliance seem to disagree with you.

Maybe your council does.

[Weaponslayer]

IMO, it didn't look like shepard just destroyed the base and threw away all the research. Judging by the datapad Joker hands on to Shepard, they seemed to have hacked for the necessary data while blowing up the base anyway. Well done bioware. That decision really blurred the line between paragon and renegade.

[jkashx]

I just figured I spent the whole game trying to get to the thing why not keep it around for some nice upgrades and if TiM wants to do something evil with it I'll blow him up too.

[FredegarKadere]

There are benefits and risks.. I played as a paragon the whole game, but let the base stay intact. The Collector Base represents a possible danger, but destroying it loses a resource that would be hard to duplicate. If Reaper technology is bad stuff then we may as well go destroy all the Mass Relays and the Citadel. Reaper tech is dangerous after all. My entire crew voiced their concern over my decision, but that is why I make the decisions.

The Collectors were able to 'warp' precisely to a location without the need for a mass relay. They had the ability to detect 'stealthed' ships. Their weaponry was based on a different method of whatever. Particle beams and all that. Figuring out ways to fight, avoid, resist those type of abilities would give the free galaxy a huge advantage.

The Alliance isn't all care-bears and sunshine. Alliance operations did some bad stuff which can be seen in both ME1 and ME2. Even Jacob tells you about his involvement in outside the line jobs for the Alliance. No better than Cerberus.

Cerberus isn't all psychos and killers. I got the feeling that the Illusive Man was trying to rein in Cerberus' more extreme cells. Jack's biotic testing facility, the Lazarus Facility, etc all got botched by people on the inside who went 'bad'. It was stated numerous times that Cerberus wasn't anti-alien, it was pro-human.

To sum it up: I figure if the Illusive Man tries to double-cross me or stand in the way of the unification of the Galaxy then I have the loyalty of the crew of the Normandy, except maybe EDI.. Tali or Legion could handle her though. Word can be sent out to the Alliance and the Council of all relevant data.

[falloutgod13]

I said it at the the start of the thread. This goes out the... ignorant, yes, that's the proper word for their lack f understanding. If TIM were to build a reaper how would he control it? Yeah.... come on now... sentient being with free will bent on harvesting organic species. Why would anyone build a reaper if the reapers are trying to kill them?



Obviously the people who started saying that were not paying attention in the game. To build a machine whose operating program consists of a large number of minds would be idiotic. You think any species forced to make up a reaper would be happy about it? Not to mention it would be a reaper, why would it work for organics? It probably wouldn't and lets say hypothetically one did. What good would one reaper be against thousands of reapers?



I don't know why I even bother pointing out the flaws in these people arguments. The vast majority of them sound too cognitively challenged to comprehend the fallacy in their statements. Then again I'm not doing it for them, I'm doing it for the sake of reason and logic. Something inane arguments of "omg tim will build a reapper somgsxor it's evil!" lack.

[AtreiyaN7]

newcomplex wrote...


The only reasons mass relays are used by reapers are to speed up the growth of galactic civilization, so the reapers have more to reap.   

The only gain against the eternal war against reapers were when the protheans reversed engineered mass relays.

Reaper tech.   

Yeah, I think I mentioned the Conduit right up there. :PPPP Of course, for millions of years (or who knows how long) everyone came out on the losing end when making use of the Reaper technology. The Protheans were smart and lucky, but not quite lucky enough, seeing as they ended up servants of the Collectors (oops). The point is that using the relays and the tech is what the Reapers want and have always wanted us to do (well, maybe not right now with Shepard fighting them and succeeding - twice!).

Edit: OOPS, quoting up there got scrambled - reduced down to newcomplex's quote now - bleah.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 02 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Proud Larry]

Using Reaper technology against Reapers sounds like a TERRIBLE idea.

We have no idea what the Illusive Man is really after.

Worst of all, it might convince some people that making a Reaper is not a bad idea.

I opted to save humanity "without sacrificing its soul" as Shepherd put it. I believe strongly that it is the Human ingenuity and diversity which got us "this far" in the galaxy and I have faith that it will save Humanity without the use of Reaper technology. Using Reaper technology would pervert that same Human nature, both by preventing us from thinking of our own ways of dealing with things (that the Reapers might not be expecting) and by allowing the Reapers to already know what they are up against.

[falloutgod13]

As far utilizing alien technology or things we don't understand I have something to point out. If the first hunter gatherers let fear get in the way of playing with fire we wouldn't have a warm meal. If the people afraid of nuclear radiation won out we wouldn't have the power needed to run a lot of things. Fear is understandable, it's what keeps us alive and makes us think before we act. However, when a fear becomes a phobia it destroys people. People with phobias can't lead normal lives in severe cases. If you really have a fear of reaper tech then you might as well stay away from the mass relays and never set foot on the citadel. However, most of you have and it didn't kill you so get over it.