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[EthanDirtch]

Hey all,

Don't know if this has been done (can't search ~shakes fist at Darkspawn, as it's always the Darkspawn...always!~), but I wanted to see which top 5 moments or character personalities that made you really mad!

I just want to point out that any time a story gets an emotional response from you of any sort--whether it be tears, or rage, or laughter--is a sign of good storytelling all around: writing, voice acting, virtual acting, music, atmosphere, etc. So kudos to BioWare, for giving us 5 reasons to really wanna punt a chihuahua!

Note: You can include any element from all released content thus far! That means even 'Return to Ostagar', so for those who have not played that yet, be warned!

Note #2: Just because something made you angry, doesn't mean it was bad, as I mentioned a few lines ago! This isn't a list of "things I don't want to see in DA:A and beyond", or a list of "mechanics, items, or bugs that made me mad". This is simply a list of story elements that elicited an emotional response! 





5. The Dwarven Caste system: First, let me add that the Caste system and the dwarven history are both brilliant. I haven't read too many books that go into Dwarven society too much, and I don't know of any Dwarven societies existing in real life, so to see a piece of media painting the Dwarves in this way is awesome. Gives depth to the world of  Thedas. With that said, the Caste system makes me angry! Such unfairness! Even if I was to roleplay as one of my characters, I doubt any of them would appreciate or approve of the Caste system, unless I made one that was downright evil and uncaring. What really riles me up too is that Harrowmont is the "good" candidate, but Bhelen is the one that actually effects some change to the Caste system. And Bhelen's a jerk! I could have also listed parts of what we know of the Qunari here, but since we don't really know them or interact with them aside from Sten (and a few unfortunate mercernaries), I'm not gunna list them.



4. Arl Rendon Howe: Man, even if you didn't play the Human Noble origin, he still royally pisses you off! Aside from Darkspawn in general, he's one of maybe three characters you *really* wanted to kill! His betrayal of the Couslands is also very reminiscent of an event in "A Song of Ice and Fire".



3. Zathrien of the Dalish Elves: His hypocrisy is quite epic. It's natural for the Dalish to be combative and confrontational with Humans, and what those humans did to his family is barbaric, but he pretty much did what they did and condemned humans (or werewolves) simply because they are what they are (or what they were made to be, in the werewolves' case). It made me wanna kill him...but I haven't, at least not yet >_> 



2. Loghain Mac Tir: The fact that he was so willing to sacrifice his nation because of his paranoia and pride...It's what makes it almost impossible for me to ever save him and let him be a Grey Warden. On top of that, he was selling Ferelden Elves, got Duncan and Cailan killed, tried to kill me on numerous occassions (and a couple of playthroughs! XD), and it's a small wonder that he's at all considered a hero.



1. The Desecration of Cailan: This only appears to those who played through "Return to Ostagar", but that scene with Cailan's body...really boiled my blood! And Cailan wasn't even a character I particularly loved either.

[Thor Rand Al]

Definitely Howe especially after the comments he make's n I played female human noble:

Howe: Your parent's died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrape heap wood along with his Antivan w**re of a wife.


That was when I wanted to go into a blood rage n grab him through the screen n just knock the shyt out of him lmao


Bhelen is a jerk period... Even after I said I didn't give you the crown to become a tyrant, i wish I could've said nevermind Harrowmont can have the crown


Seeing Cailan like that was very disturbing, I did get emotional there, choked up even...

Bioware does a very good job of sucking you into the game emotionally... 1 of the reason's I love this game so much cause it does draw you in...

Edit

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 01 février 2010 - 07:02 .

[errant_knight]

EthanDirtch wrote...

Hey all,

Don't know if this has been done (can't search ~shakes fist at Darkspawn, as it's always the Darkspawn...always!~), but I wanted to see which top 5 moments or character personalities that made you really mad!

I just want to point out that any time a story gets an emotional response from you of any sort--whether it be tears, or rage, or laughter--is a sign of good storytelling all around: writing, voice acting, virtual acting, music, atmosphere, etc. So kudos to BioWare, for giving us 5 reasons to really wanna punt a chihuahua!

Note: You can include any element from all released content thus far! That means even 'Return to Ostagar', so for those who have not played that yet, be warned!

Note #2: Just because something made you angry, doesn't mean it was bad, as I mentioned a few lines ago! This isn't a list of "things I don't want to see in DA:A and beyond", or a list of "mechanics, items, or bugs that made me mad". This is simply a list of story elements that elicited an emotional response! 





5. The Dwarven Caste system: First, let me add that the Caste system and the dwarven history are both brilliant. I haven't read too many books that go into Dwarven society too much, and I don't know of any Dwarven societies existing in real life, so to see a piece of media painting the Dwarves in this way is awesome. Gives depth to the world of  Thedas. With that said, the Caste system makes me angry! Such unfairness! Even if I was to roleplay as one of my characters, I doubt any of them would appreciate or approve of the Caste system, unless I made one that was downright evil and uncaring. What really riles me up too is that Harrowmont is the "good" candidate, but Bhelen is the one that actually effects some change to the Caste system. And Bhelen's a jerk! I could have also listed parts of what we know of the Qunari here, but since we don't really know them or interact with them aside from Sten (and a few unfortunate mercernaries), I'm not gunna list them.



4. Arl Rendon Howe: Man, even if you didn't play the Human Noble origin, he still royally pisses you off! Aside from Darkspawn in general, he's one of maybe three characters you *really* wanted to kill! His betrayal of the Couslands is also very reminiscent of an event in "A Song of Ice and Fire".



3. Zathrien of the Dalish Elves: His hypocrisy is quite epic. It's natural for the Dalish to be combative and confrontational with Humans, and what those humans did to his family is barbaric, but he pretty much did what they did and condemned humans (or werewolves) simply because they are what they are (or what they were made to be, in the werewolves' case). It made me wanna kill him...but I haven't, at least not yet >_> 



2. Loghain Mac Tir: The fact that he was so willing to sacrifice his nation because of his paranoia and pride...It's what makes it almost impossible for me to ever save him and let him be a Grey Warden. On top of that, he was selling Ferelden Elves, got Duncan and Cailan killed, tried to kill me on numerous occassions (and a couple of playthroughs! XD), and it's a small wonder that he's at all considered a hero.



1. The Desecration of Cailan: This only appears to those who played through "Return to Ostagar", but that scene with Cailan's body...really boiled my blood! And Cailan wasn't even a character I particularly loved either.

Yep those were definitly my top five, although I would never have conceived of headbutting a kitten. So ultimately evil Nice turn of phrase, though! I'll have to remember that....

It also really pisses me off when Eamon and Tegan talk about what desperate straights they've come to in making Alistair king right in front of him, although I recognize that it's mostly game mechanics that demand that. It still irks the heck out of me.

Within the moments you mentioned, the one that makes my blood boit the hottest, is when Duncan sees Cailan killed and looks up to see the signal fire lit and no sign of Loghain's troops. Corallary to that, when Ser Cautherin leads the troops away, knowing what it means. A lot of people admire her for her loyalty, but I disrespect her for her lack of principle. She knows it's wrong. You can see it on her face.

I dislike Isolde in the extreme, but she's too weak and lacking in character to actually hate, although I certainly hold her in contempt.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 février 2010 - 07:20 .

[SuperMedbh]

The City Elf origin remains my favourite, so Vaughn, Vaughn, Howe, Vaughn, and Loghain (for the slavery).

[Kiwiya]

5. "Who is thees WOMAHN, TEAGAAAHN?" Ok, ok, tiny annoyance, but who *doesn't* hate Isolde, seriously? **** nearly ruined everything, for herself, Eamon, Teagan, Connor and, hell, even Jowan with her selfishness. Motherly love is understandable, but not to the point that it could very well kill the child in question... and everyone else, too.



4. The dwarf candidates for king. A nice old coward who supports anti-progressive tradition, or the power-hungry bastard who wants to fix society and will lie, bribe and murder to do it? Not to mention that you can't even talk to them before making your decision. Horribly frustrating the first time around.



3. Alistair's pissy-run-away Landsmeet scene is just the worst. Letting Loghain live is the most sensible thing you'll ever hear, and I want to do it everytime, but his pouty angry face and royally ****ed endings afterwards always seem to stop me. Doesn't mean I don't spend the rest of the game berating him for being such a child. ><



2. Betrayals in the origins, i.e., Howe (DAMN YOU HOWE, NOT MY ADORABLE NEPHEW WHO QUOTES STEPHEN COLBERT!), Bhelen, Leske and Jowan. I think I screamed at my monitor all four times. They're just completely unexpected... Okay, maybe Bhelen and Jowan have some foreshadowing. But they *all* caught me off guard the first time.



1. Ser Cauthrien. I know she's a great character, but the scene when you first call the nobles to Denerim, where Howe and Loghain are at least pretendign to be civilized and she all but spits in your face. She's the only character I always intentionally plan to track down and kill later.

[TheBlackBaron]

5) Arlessa Isolde and Queen Anora
'Nuff said.

4) The Dwarven Royalty
Actually, you could probably extend that to the entire nobility. It just reeked of being mired in minor issues while the nation outside burned.

3) The **** from the City Elf origin
Now, unlike some people here, I am not addicted to pretty elfies and their plight in the Denerim ghetto. But I still hated this guys guts.

2) The Chantry
Don't get me wrong, I loved concept, the set-up, the WH40K influences. I just hated how they tended to work in-game. Most of this is directed at the priests themselves - I feel almost as much sympathy for the Templars as I do for the Mages, as they're both forced into it at a young age and kept on a very tight leash by the Chantry; Templars for the Mages and forced lyrium addiction for the Templars.

1) Arl Rendon Howe
At least Loghain was just paranoid - Howe was most definitely a sadist. Plus, he's voiced by Tim Curry. Anytime his wonderful voice acting gets used for a character, you know they're gonna be a villain.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 01 février 2010 - 07:11 .

[EthanDirtch]

Has Tim Curry ever been a good guy, either voiced or in live acting? lol Tim Curry just drips evil! Though I'm sure he's a nice guy if you met him XD

[Kiwiya]

...Nigel Thornberry was a good guy? xD

[TheBlackBaron]

EthanDirtch wrote...

Has Tim Curry ever been a good guy, either voiced or in live acting? lol Tim Curry just drips evil! Though I'm sure he's a nice guy if you met him XD

I don't know. I'm sure Tim Curry is a great guy in person, it's just that he sports that Beard of Evil and everything kind of flows from there.

[RobinMichelleB]

1. Howe killing my family in the Human Noble origin. I am not to the end of my Human Noble playthrough yet, and I am SO looking forward to killing him.



2. Loghain's betrayal of the king at Ostagar. I swore at the TV very loudly when I saw this for the first time, and it just makes me angrier each time I view it.



3. I was incensed when I ran into the farmer at Lothering who told me that on top of everything else, Loghain had issued a bounty for the Grey Wardens and said that they had betrayed the king. And then I just kept hearing it! I always kept my cool and simply said that it wasn't true without bashing Loghain, though. Seemed more politically appropriate.



4. I love Alistair more than anything in this game, so I really wanted to punch his stupid sister in the face when she was mean to him after I brought him to see her. I was still neutral for Alistair's sake, but she was never anything but ungrateful.



5. And this is sort of random, but I got really tired of everyone complaining about me being a woman. The game says that women and men are generally considered equal (and for the most part, I did feel that the game reflected that), but it was especially annoying at Ostagar when all the Grey Warden recruits (and even Alistair!) are like, oh, I didn't realize you were a chick. Well, Duncan told you my name was ANNA, did you think I was a guy?

[AnniLau]

Kiwiya wrote...

3. Alistair's pissy-run-away Landsmeet scene is just the worst. Letting Loghain live is the most sensible thing you'll ever hear, and I want to do it everytime, but his pouty angry face and royally ****ed endings afterwards always seem

I just did this, but married him off to Anora, so I was able to talk to him after the Archdemon nommed Loghain. He said he wasn't angry anymore, but I kept wishing I'd had the option to tell him something like, "I never intended for Loghain to live. If you'd actually trusted me or our friendship, you might have realized that." I like Alistair and I understand why he was upset, but I was pretty disappointed by his behavior and there wasn't really a dialogue choice to express that.

Oh, and Vaughn,  Howe, Isolde, Goldanna. Also, I wanted to poke Anora in the eye when she complained about Alistair's jokes, but that's a far cry from headbutting a kitten.

Modifié par AnniLau, 01 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[Jaulen]

5. Zathrian, most definitely, couldn't have said it better myself...his hypocrisy is amazing, although he is pretty easy to talk into doing the right thing, so he 'kind of' redeems himself



4. Ser Cathrian...I talked her out of attacking once.....but i just hate the hero addled woman so much that I would love to be able to kill her and kill her and kill her again. Really woman, you're fealty should be to the king....ESPECIALLY when you know turning your back on him means his certain death.



3. Deep Roads and the Fade at the Circle Tower....not becuase they are hard or anything....but I just find them annoying...(although it IS fun to shapechange!)



2. Arl Howe....haven't played a HN yet, but I always want to kill that weasly looking btard.



1. Isolde. If she hadn't been such a dumb twit, the whole army of undead thing, and possibly having to kill Connor wouldn't have had to happen.

[Jaulen]

Ah....I forgot to add #0. Number one most annoying thing in the game to me, is Alistair's hissy fit if you want to keep Loghain and make him a warden.ESPECIALLY after you find out that killing Archdemon = death.



But, it is keeping in line with Alistair's character.....and I agree with AnniLau....if there had been a chance to persuade him "Come on, Trust me! Have I lead us wrong yet?" What would be better than to have the AD eat him?

[Cuddlezarro]

in no order

1)Howe murdering your entire family as a noble

2)Isolde in general while I dont condone punching women in the face in real life it felt so good doing it on the play through I killed conner because my god her voice... is just.. TEEEAAAAGGGAAAANNNN!!!!! *ears bleed* oh and the fact her stupidity nearly got the town she ruled over destroyed

3)Not being able to Talk to Alistair about *why* I want to spare Loghain at all I can understand him being angry and all but unless you harden him and marry him off to Anora he either gets executed or becomes a drunk, but I would have liked to be able to tell Alistair that I planned to feed Loghain to the archdemon

4)your Mother as a dwarf commoner lets just say i know PERFECTLY well what its like to have an abusive drunk for a parent and needless to say I absolutely *hated* my dwarfs mother shes ungratful self centered and just a down right **** who does nothing but complain and wallow in booze

5) Wynn's relationship "advice" if your romancing Zevran as well as how long it takes for her to apologize for being a **** who acted like your a angst ridden teenager in lust and would drop your responsibilities just for the sake of sex despite being an adult

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 01 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[Sabriana]

5, Tied to # 2 somewhat. My PCs are women, and the constant 'you're a woman?' got on my nerves. Especially the "I swear I'm the bravest one here, and I'm a woman." line the PC can say at the joining. Come on my girls. Don't let yourself be drawn in all this misogyny. The reason it's so high up (at # 5) is because the HNFs get treated as an equal by her family.

4. Isolde. I can understand the wish to protect your child. Heck, I'd do the same, but she goes to extremes, and can't see that she is killing many people left and right through her actions. Redcliffe village was on the brink of being wiped out, the castle is already almost devoid of people. These people were under her care, she's the Arlessa.
She can't possibly be stupid enough not to realize that Connor has become an abomination, but she continues on the path of destruction. After my PCs tell her that she is as much to blame as Jowan, she goes all righteously indignant, and only after Teagan tells her that her actions made Jowan's actions possible does she shut up.

3. The Chantry and their treatment of the mages. and the templars. To call it inhuman is putting it mildly. There are few here and there that are tolerable, such as the sister with the meal-time chant in Denerim, the revered mother in Redcliffe, the sister tending to the refugees in Lothering (the one that gives you the 'Plants" quest), and a few more here and there. Not enough to make the Chantry as a whole any better than a power-grabbing, humanity stifling, bunch of religious zealots.

2. Vaughn. All my PCs are human women, but talking with Soris and then with Vaughn, plus the fact that both my HN warrior and my HN rogue are in love with Zevran, made Vaughn ripe for their murder knife.

1. Alistair and Riordan at the Landsmeet. That really made me angry. Yes, it is clear that the more Grey Wardens the better. It is also clear that Alistair has plenty of reasons to really hate Loghain, but so have my HNs, and even my mage to an extend. Riordan keeps saying that there are compelling reasons, but there is no way my PCs can pull him aside and ask him to elaborate. I got the "Duncan feeling" of being told to "trust me that everything is done for a reason" - sort of a mental trip back to Ostagar prior to the joining. Alistair leaves the Grey Wardens? Why did Jory have to die then? The whole thing is a big, big mess (not in the writing, but in human relations kind of ways, understand?)

I know I left out the two biggest antagonists, but the reason I did so was simply because I expected nothing less from them, and therefore wasn't particularly put out most of the time (as a player). Howe ticked me off far more than Loghain, because Howe is a snivelling weasel out only for himself. It was so very sad to see my HNs dead family and her mother insisting to stay behind and try to buy her and Duncan time. The massacre of everyone she holds near and dear was heartwrenching.

Loghain is different in that he does it to keep his oath to Maric, but everything spins horribly out of control very quickly. He does all the wrong things to stem the tide, but it's hopeless. He is to blind and to paranoid to see that he's losing control. There are a few cut-scenes where he looks very depressed, upset, and even sad, but he fails to do the right thing each and every time.

[Kaoschizm]

The kitty quest always pisses me off, I've never been able to save the little girl from that stupid cat.

[blademaster7]

5. Teagan revealing that he had a way to enter the castle AFTER I saved his pathetic village.

4. Dwarven politics. Fight for me in the proving, clear out the scumbags in dust town, find me a paragon... Solve your own damn problems and give me my troops.

3. Anora stabbing me in the back. No need to say anything further.

2. Howe's betrayal. The fact that you could kill him later is nice, but still it made me very mad. When the guardian asked me if I regret leaving my family to die in the hands of Howe, I snapped... I thought my character was gonna collapse right on the spot.

1. "I have a plan, you see. A way out. The loop in your hole".

And everything that comes after that. aka "Once I get what I want I'm leaving you... I have no further use for you... "
Wasted 140+ gold for a dagger, invested 4 skills in coercion with cunning to the max and you just let her get away...

[Chas1024]

Jowan, if you choose the dialog option "I never saw a problem with blood magic, myself." he gives you a lecture on the evils of blood magic, hypocrite!



Kaoschizm, it is possible to save the girl from the demon. I felt really guilty on the one occasion I did the deal with the cat. There was the father thanking me for rescuing his daughter and she was talking in that creepy demon voice and he doesn't notice.

[Sresla]

Can Anora and Isolde be my top 5 and then 6-10 be the ones I list here? No?



1. Anora. She has GOT to go. Her betrayal at Howe's castle is something I have NEVER gotten over on any of my playthroughs. One of the best lines is the one you can give her when you get back to Arl Eamon's estate, "That's so sweet. It almost makes me want to kill you less." I married her once with my Human Noble and was glad to see that I prevented a Ferelden Golden Age because she and I fought all the time for power. If I could have, I would have talked Zevran into assassinating her.



2. Isolde. Ya. That one's already been discussed. She goes around the twist for her son and while I've got empathy for the situation in a very general sense (wanting to protect your child), I don't think in my coldest moment could I ever allow the slaughter of hundreds of people just to let him live.I'm always very snarky in the dialogue to her and letting her know that I think she's to blame for it all. Feels very pre-DA:O Orlesian though, she probably considers the villagers nothing but dirt.



3. Morrigan. Love her or hate her, but every time she disapproves of me doing anything remotely friendly (like rescuing a sack of kittens from drowning), it makes me want to slap her - yet somehow I've still not downloaded the 'Slap Morrigan' mod. I get it, you're on the Team of Ultimate Badasses, Morrigan, but c'mon. Kittens. And you want me to sleep with you at the end of the game to save my own life? I'm surprised my virtual penis doesn't shrivel up at the very thought of it. Every time she says she's going to give me a night to remember, I think, nightMARE to remember. I have evil moments but not liking kittens is where I draw the line.



4. That girl who buys puppies in the Denerim market and then does something weird to them. I don't know what the whole story is with that, it's gossip you get but it creeps me out every time I hear it. I'm an animal lover, what can I say.



5. That guy in the Dalish camp who can't get his girlfriend to marry him because he can't kill anything as a hunter. Ya, you're pretty much a total failure dude. Two years and not even a bunny? Seriously? I walk into the forest and stuff is running at me so fast that all I'd need to do is kneel down and with my sword in front of me and let them impale themselves on my blade. I help you out every time but I end up picturing them 5 years down the road, both miserable. I'm miserable just talking to him, I can't imagine what married life would be like with him.



Bad guys who got a bad rap:



1. Rendon Howe - That guy is cold. And I like him. If anything, he's a better villain than Loghain is.

2. Loghain - After going through RtO (without him in my party, mind), I have a better feeling for where I think he's coming from. Cailan seems willing to toss his daughter aside for the Empress of Orlais, despite how biologically or politically sound that decision might be, it'd make me pretty mad too, especially if I spent my entire adult life trying to drive the Orlesians out.

3. Avernus - Guy did bad stuff, but hey, he made me powerful too. And if he can keep me from eventually scrubbing off to the Deep Roads, I might just send him a few more subjects to experiment on. Maybe a few more like Ser Jory, who made me embarrassed to be grouped with him.

[Sabriana]

Sresla wrote...

<snip>

3. Avernus - Guy did bad stuff, but hey, he made me powerful too. And if he can keep me from eventually scrubbing off to the Deep Roads, I might just send him a few more subjects to experiment on. Maybe a few more like Ser Jory, who made me embarrassed to be grouped with him.

Aua and ouch.

[Kitako]

On my first playthourgh I supported Anora to be queen. All good.



On the second time I declared I was not going to support her. I totally didn't see it coming when she sided with her father at the Landsmeet (I know, I should have known).



I nerdraged hard.

[Terra_Ex]

1 Alistair's tantrum in the Landsmeet. Why... why can't you have the foresight to see Loghain can still be useful as a pawn in the greater scheme of things, you silly little man. My thoughts were that he should have grown up by this point in our travels, so I forced him into being king as a trial by fire.

2 Morrigan leaving before final battle - yep, removing a key character from my roster caused me much aggravation during the final battles - it does rile you up some though, which can then be channeled into destroying darkspawn..

3 Howe's final death - would've liked several choices before he finally kicked it. Howe gets to deliver a particularly cutting speech if playing as a human noble, would've been nice to reciprocate as he lay dying.

4 Wynne's mothers talk when romancing Morrigan - well written to be sure, but another example of how the team pretty much unites against her even before she's actually done anything wrong - very much guilty till proven innocent, which I'm sure many people can relate some part of their lives to.

5 Branka's inability to see what she'd done was wrong on so many levels (excluding player intervention.) Heck, had she even taken a look at that Broodmother she'd had a hand in creating.

[Hyper Cutter]

Branka... pretty much everything she's ever done, really.

[thegoldfinch]

Isolde is a bad, bad person.
TEAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN.
TEAGAAAN?
TEAGAAAAAAAN!
I hear her horrible voice in my nightmares just repeating his name, over and over and over and over again...

Modifié par pixieface, 01 février 2010 - 11:52 .

[beelzeybob]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Definitely Howe especially after the comments he make's n I played female human noble:

Howe: Your parent's died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrape heap wood along with his Antivan w**re of a wife.


That was when I wanted to go into a blood rage n grab him through the screen n just knock the shyt out of him lmao

Fergus is alive, and he's in the throne room after the archdemon is slain or at your funeral.