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[Gold Dragon]

iinfinity wrote...

when duncan kills jory just after the joining ritual.. i thought "duncan, you murderous ass!"

Even in my first playthru, I saw that coming a full mile away.  I was even expecting it.  My thought was:  Serves him right.

I doubt that I could really come up with 5, but the one that really ticked me off was:  Nelaros' death (City Elf Female, as Rogue).  I had known it would happen.  But still got upset about it.  Actually, even worse than Vaughan (Whom I enjoyed killing).

[Bibdy]

remylass wrote...


And my #1!  Riordan.  I would like to kick him in the teeth.  I was surprised not many talk about him.  He comes to the Landsmeet to say that we should make Loghain a Grey Warden, and that there are reasons to want as many as we can.  However, he hears Alistair protest.  Not once, does he pull Alistair and I aside and tell us that one of the 3 of us has to die to kill the Archdemon.  I mean, that could have changed certain attitudes, I think.  THEN, he jumps off of a building onto a nimble flying archdemon, and dies.  Well, thanks for that.  Guess it is up to us.

You know, if he hadn't done that, you'd be throwing rocks at a very capable, very flying, very death-spewing, taint-fueled dragon, rather than fighting it on the ground

[dkjestrup]

Goldana. x1000000

[mark holford]

remylass wrote...


And my #1!  Riordan. 

Okay, he may  not be my #1 - but he did make my top 5...
#5 - Riordan - Just couldn't wait to take on the Archdemon 5 on 1... must attempt to take it on alone... and die trying....  Why not stick to the plan and take it by #'s. 

#4 - Anora - Little tramp says she will side with me making Alister King, and then backstabs me at the landsmeet.  So I decided to reload, tell her I would support her and turn it around on her....  Backstabbed her instead....

(if only a *real* backstab was an option)

#3 - Alister, having deferred all decision making to the PC for 80+ hours of gameplay, decides after I choose to make him King that *he* gets executive decision making power to determine the fate of Loghain.  Suddenly it's are you going to lop off his head, or am I?  No third option.   Now one of us is going to have to sleep with the swamp witch if we're both to survive this mess.....

#2 - Jowan  - I can't believe he was my *friend*.   I had no regrets in having him executed.

#1 - Isolde - Sets up her son with a blood mage/apostate to avoid having to follow the "rules" everyone else has to live by.  Almost destroys everyone she is supposed to be ruling... 

Some notable absences:
Loghain - I can see his point of view, and appreciate his course of action even if I don't agree with it. 
Arl Howe - I've only played with an elf mage so far... his absence from my list may change very soon when I start my human noble playthrough.

Congrats to the bioware team for a great game - not many evoke so much emotional response.  This game has held my attention like no other. 

[Bibdy]

mark holford wrote...

remylass wrote...


And my #1!  Riordan. 

Okay, he may  not be my #1 - but he did make my top 5...
#5 - Riordan - Just couldn't wait to take on the Archdemon 5 on 1... must attempt to take it on alone... and die trying....  Why not stick to the plan and take it by #'s. 

But, he sacrificed himself to give you guys a chance! What exact plan did the three of you have to kill the thing? The blood thing can FLY. You have to bring it down somehow, if you're going to stab it. Rjordan taking the opportunity to disable its ability to fly was monumental in beating it.

[mark holford]

Bibdy wrote...


But, he sacrificed himself to give you guys a chance! What exact plan did the three of you have to kill the thing? The blood thing can FLY. You have to bring it down somehow, if you're going to stab it. Rjordan taking the opportunity to disable its ability to fly was monumental in beating it.

Crushing Prison / Petrify / cone of cold / blizzard / sleep

You know, standard boss immobilization techniques....  Worked on practically every other boss we had to deal with.  Even Loghain (bless his heart) didn't have a chance versus my Arcane Warrior....

EDIT
Okay - and one close tie with Riordan - King Cailan.  What is with this warrior-wannabe who's goal in life is to be the herioc King who deals the fatal blow to the archdemon - ending the blight....  Haven't you heard, that only happens in movies.  In real life the inexperienced King get's crushed by the Ogre - OGRE!  Not the archdemon, a stinking measly OGRE!  Leave the archdemon slaying to the professionals.

You've got a job = being king.
Your army & the grey wardens have a job = stopping the blight.

It's all lovely and noble to be leading the troops into battle, but when it goes all wrong it leaves the country in a mess.

Modifié par mark holford, 02 février 2010 - 02:01 .

[ashez2ashes]

Earl Eamon. I went to all that trouble to find Fereldon's version of ark of the covenant, fought dragons, killed a mountain full of evil cultists, save his wife and child and then when I wake him up? He disregards or outright ignores everything I say, all the while having everyone think he's so "noble". BS. The guy threw away Alistair because his $%^&* wife said so, and the ONLY reason he wants Alistair on the throne is because of his blood and so he can manipulate him behind the scenes. At least Anora is upfront about wanting power.

[DPSSOC]

Ok just got through the assault on Redcliffe as a HN and had a new rage moment. When I accuse Isolde of not being on the level and she says in that oh so irritating voice, "Who is this man Teagan?" I was overcome with the urge to say, "I'm your Teryn wench, show some respect," and then kick her off the nearby cliff.

[FierachEredasSoulchiou]

The point of Riordan having you guys break up into smaller parties was so that the Archdemon could not clearly detect the Grey Wardens coming and amass its soldiers to counter the only thing that could really kill it.

Now, that said.

1. Nothing in the game has pissed me off more then Loghain, and Howe when I was playing as a HNM. I sorta had the inkling that something was going to happen, when I talked to one of Howe's guardsat the very beginning, and when it actually happened, well, yeah. Eventually realising that Howe was Loghain's right hand, and dealing with all of the bounty hunters, and misinformation, and the news that the Wardens were the traitors, no amount of sympathy for the man's original intentions would sway me from killing him, be it by Alistairs or my own hand. I WAS particularly annoyed that I don't get an option to simply run my sword through Howe's throat while he's speaking his last words to hear him gurgle on his blood and die though. Ser Cautherian, as my PC didn't know her personally, was let off easily enough to begin with. She just wanted to capture me right? I did just kill Howe after all, so, I might as well let this poor mislead woman live. I killed her at the Landsmeet when she said she wouldn't stand aside despite all Loghain had done though.

2. Isolde. Idiotic Orlesian fishwife. I had originally really wanted to sacrifice her, and I made it plainly clear that I didn't like her and thought that something was up, but I supposed for the sake of Arl Eamon that I was going to try and reduce deaths and damage to Redcliffe as much as I could, and that included saving both if I could. Watching Isolde kill her own son in a another playthrough though, truly moved me like few other things did.

3. Anora. On one hand, I can appreciate her governing strength, her intelligence, and her ability to lead. On another, that betrayal thing when I'm trying to save her, that really pissed me off.

4. Goldanna. Just Goldanna. My HNM pc held his peace until after he exited to let Alistair know how he felt. My HNF was going to kill Goldanna for calling her a tramp if Alistair didn't hold her back.

I'll have to think on my 5th though.

DPSSOC wrote...

Ok just got through the assault on Redcliffe as a HN and had a new rage moment. When I accuse Isolde of not being on the level and she says in that oh so irritating voice, "Who is this man Teagan?" I was overcome with the urge to say, "I'm your Teryn wench, show some respect," and then kick her off the nearby cliff.

Heh.

"THIS. IS. REDCLIFFE! -punt-"

And thus, any chance of recruiting Redcliffe's soldiers against the blight was lost.

Modifié par FierachEredasSoulchiou, 02 février 2010 - 02:55 .

[melkathi]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Earl Eamon. I went to all that trouble to find Fereldon's version of ark of the covenant, fought dragons, killed a mountain full of evil cultists, save his wife and child and then when I wake him up? He disregards or outright ignores everything I say, all the while having everyone think he's so "noble". BS. The guy threw away Alistair because his $%^&* wife said so, and the ONLY reason he wants Alistair on the throne is because of his blood and so he can manipulate him behind the scenes. At least Anora is upfront about wanting power.

I just wanted to say:
I don't think Arl Eamon threw Alistair away because of Isolde. I think Alistair, as a kid, simply interpreted it that way.

Reasons:

1) Arl Eamon is too much of a calculating git. Alistair could have been a thread to Cailan, so he had to be brought up a way in which he'd never even consider usurping Cailan's rule. What better way of making him a templar? The belief he was instilled as a child that he had no claim to the throne, coupled with Chantry indoctrination, would ensure that he did not even consider such a claim. At the same time, if he was to achieve rank in the Templars, his relation to Cailan by blood could be used to further strengthen Cailan's rule.
After all, that's what was usualy done in the middle ages anyway: 1st son inherits title and land. 2nd son joins the army. 3rd son joins the clergy. With the Chantry only having priestesses, a son would have to join the Templars - similar to Bann Alfstanna and her brother.

2) Alistair seems to contradict himself a bit. On one hand, noone was told who his father was. Not even the Lady of the Castle, Isolde. On the other hand, he does not like telling people, because they treat him differently once they know. What is it Alistair? Was it such a big secret that Arl Eamon risked to ruin his family peace over it or did people treat you differently after finding out?

[DPSSOC]

FierachEredasSoulchiou wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Ok just got through the assault on Redcliffe as a HN and had a new rage moment. When I accuse Isolde of not being on the level and she says in that oh so irritating voice, "Who is this man Teagan?" I was overcome with the urge to say, "I'm your Teryn wench, show some respect," and then kick her off the nearby cliff.

Heh.

"THIS. IS. REDCLIFFE! -punt-"

And thus, any chance of recruiting Redcliffe's soldiers against the blight was lost.

Are you kidding I'd be a hero.  The children would come out and begin singing "Ding Dong the Witch is dead" while the men and women kneeled before me as a vision of the Maker's mercy.  Now yes I might have some explaining to do once Arl Eamon wakes up but he seems sensible enough to acknowledge my track record.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

1) Goldanna, for being a COMPLETE AND UTTER BI7CH! After all the nice things I've done (Including giving her the last of my coin) she calls my Ophelia a wh**e in pursuit of Alistair's royal coin?! I regretted there was no "Burn the witch on a stake" option.



2) Duncan shishkebabing Jory. I knew that Jory along with Daveth were gonna be redshirted from the moment I met them. I just didn't expect Jory to go out like that. It made me yell "WTF DUNCAN?!" outloud. Couldn't you just disarm the scared fool and forcefeed him the blood, and THEN kill him if he decides to survive and turn on you?



3) Both Dwarwen candidates. I chose Bhelen, and even though he acted like a total jack, his policies benefited the Dwarwes as a whole. And that's BEFORE I learned of what he did. The other choice wasn't any better...



4) Rendon Howe. BLOODY RENDON HOWE!! Do I really have to say anything except I wish there was a more violent, slower death I could have inflicted upon him. I would have loved to torture the bastard to death.



5) MARJOLAINE!!! Words cannot describe how much I wanted to kill her and everyone else who wronged Leliana. I had a very special connection with Leliana and when she told me about what Marjolaine did to her, of what happened to her while she was locked up in Orlais, my BERSERK light went on. The only thing I wanted to do was find Marjolaine, murder the bloody wh**e, feed her corpse to the Darkspawn, grab a horse, go to Orlais, get a cup of coffee, find and murder every single guard thet wronged Leliana, and return to Ferelden bringing a nice pair of dragonskin shoes back to my favorite bard.



Pheew...

[VampOrchid]

Lets see if I can do this in two different sections.



Top 5 ppl in game that made me want to tear out my hair...



1. Anora : everything about her. OMG! but that right there tells yah that it's just plain good game/story telling. But OMG. That woman! Once I realized there was the option to flip her the "you're a b***h" switch. I used it alot!



2. Riordan : K, here's a guy we've known in story for about, uhmmm 10 mins total, and he's all btw, this is how stuff is going to be done. Wow, that bugs me. If you talk to Wynne at camp, at one point she says it's been almost a year...A YEAR...that you've been on this kill the archedemon quest. Holy crap Mister Riordan, I think I have some stuff on my resume that makes me qualified to have an opinion. Thank. You. Very. Much. Or was that just me thinking this?



3. Isolde : Shut. Up. That's really all I can think off when it comes to her. When I first met her I was so hoping that there was going to be more lines to choose from then what I had, like "get bent!" Ugh, I can go on and on about that one.



4. Howe : Other then the fact that he kills my PCs family, everything else about him just bugs me. Even in the little cut scene cinematics, bleh. He's a character I love, because I HATE him so much!



5. Loghain : wow...really...enough said there.



Now for the top 5 moments that made me angry, good job Bioware, getting emotions from your gamers, is a job well done...



1. Cailan's death. OMG! The attention to detail that went into that moment. It was made to ****** people off!



2. Playing through the second time, meeting Cailan again and thinking "Wth? How didn't I know they were brothers the first time?" Is it just me or do they even seem to have a bit of the same personality and even sound A BIT alike?



3. Finding that damned Sloth demon in that ridiculous maze at the Tower. OMG! I hate it. I dread it every time! I love the dream scenes, but hate hate hate going through it argh!



4. When playing through as a Noble you are never reunited with your brother and never get to tell him 'the news" yourself. Like come on! You have to run around fixing all your little party memebers issues to gain love, trust and some boom boom time in a tent, but no one ever stops and says hey "PC" what can we do to help you? LMAO. How about help me find my brother. Oh sure he's there at the party time at the end, but come on. Everyone of us thinks, hey wonder how that convo went.



5. The Ashes. Why is it the Guardian gives you a hard time about getting a pinch of that stuff, but now everyone is going to come by all willy nilly and keep grabbing some? Why don't they have to pass the dragon and go threw the Gauntlet? What's up with that? I kill that priest dude on every second playthrough, just cuz he erks me.

[Mistersunshine]

Ugh, I just had a rage moment right NOW. I wrote a big long post here and the forum page glitched out and erased it all. Boo.



Anyway, really good thread.

[Alexadroid]

Rage moment:

1. Getting dumped by Alistair: First of all, I bought this game after a rather sudden messy break-up in hopes that it would take my mind off the situation...I had no idea the game had a relationship component. I got sucked in and it helped me get some distance from the real life situation...until I got dumped in a sudden and messy fashion AGAIN. My reaction to getting dumped in game was "OH NO YOU DIDN'T." Jerk.


I have to laugh at the ironic parallels to my real life. Needless to say, I'm now a Zevran fan.


2. Arl Eamon trying to undermine Anora- Dude, I felt bad trying to usurp Anora, I feel like she was living in a man's world and had paid her dues to become queen. Arl Eamon harping on the fact she didn't produce an heir was just annoying to me, he needs to take some women's studies classes. Also the fact he's dating someone as young as Isolde is rather depressing (for Isolde)


3. Tamlen's Death- I mentioned this in another thread, but doesn't anyone care that you just murdered your love interest in camp? No? Well can we at least not revel in his death and avoid yelling out witty banter while attacking him? That's just depressing.


4. Branka- I do agree she is the worst. Giving up her entire house to be violated by darkspawn. You are one sick lady Branka... plus you are rude to me, so you've gotta go. I'll never take her side, especially when Caridan calls me "friend"

Modifié par Alexadroid, 02 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[Mistersunshine]

The only NPC who truly enraged me was Vaughan. He was the most evil character in the entire game, to me. If I'd had to make a choice between only killing the archdemon or Vaughan, I'd have killed Vaughan and let the archdemon go.



Vaughan and his men really were the worst villains in the game, and it was incredibly satisfying to slaughter them. More so, for me, than Arl Howe or any of the other bad guys.



Because the whole Vaughan storyline was so horrific and enraging, I was deeply gratified by this exchange:



The recently-raped Shianni looks up at you from the ground, traumatized, and asks in a broken voice, "You killed them, didn't you? You killed them all?"



You answer, "Like dogs, Shianni."



That was the most potent moment in any of the origin stories for me, and probably the most emotionally fulfilling single line of dialogue that I as a PC got to deliver in the entire game.



Sadly, I wasn't given the option of such vindicating lines or choices in response to most of the other moments in the game that made me angry. But Vaughan was the worst, and I'm very pleased that I did, indeed, butcher him like a dog.

[catofnine]

Alexadroid wrote...
4. Branka- I do agree she is the worst. Giving up her entire house to be violated by darkspawn. You are one sick lady Branka... plus you are rude to me, so you've gotta go. I'll never take her side, especially when Caridan calls me "friend"

This.  I truely enjoyed sinking my daggers into her kidneys.  Think of all the betrayals in the game, that one disgusted me the most. 

3.  Also hated being marked by the mortality/healing debuff spell by enemy casters. 

2. Vaughan hurting Shianni.  I hadn't planned on going all vigilante justice on his sorry behind, but when I saw her on the floor in the arl's estate and those men around her  I was ready to cut him to bits and burn that house down to ground.

1. Archers + scattershot.  They're not as bad as when I encountered them on my first playthrough, but wow getting chain stunned by them in the back alleys of Denerim or in the market warehouse did bring on a severe case of nerdrage on my part and sent my blood pressure through the roof.   I can deal with the melee stuns, but the ranged ones just made me mental.

[Behindyounow]

5)Alistair throwing a hissy fit at the landsmeet. Making Loghain a grey warden is a punishment, not an honour.



4)Ser Cauthrien. Nobody calls me a churl you ****. Gutting her was its own reward. The Summer sword was just a nice bonus.



3)Isolde. Killing her wasn't that satisfying. Punching her, killing Connor and making her live with the consequences of her idiocy was much better.



2)Morrigan. The less the sequels have to do with her the better. I dont want some arrogant cow as the villain in the next one thanks.



1)Anora. Go die. Slowly and painfully.

[Vicious]

Wynne. Apparently the vanilla game has some disabled text that can be re-enabled through Mods. Wynne turns against you if you are a blood mage and tries to kill you, despite the fact that it's perfectly OK to be a Grey Warden blood mage as they have to pull out all the stops to defeat the Darkspawn.



While i'm not surprised they took it out since it made no sense, I downloaded a mod that re-enabled it and sure enough, she confronted my blood mage/AW pc as soon as I went to camp.



She, like Alistair, was one of those characters I REALLY liked at first, and then as time went on I grew to hate them more and more until now I downright despise them. I don't think I've EVER disliked a Bioware character as much as those two.

[Spuro]

1. Loghain's face. I half-expected the Joker to pop up any scene with Loghain in it and yelling "why so serious?!" Seriously he's got a permanant scowl on his face like as if he ate too much extra hot curry and can't seem to find a loo to relieve himself. No wonder he's so evil.



2. That guard that works for Vaughn. First he killed poor innocent Nola in cold blood, then he murders my City Elf's groom-to-be, not to mention he needs his buddies with him to do both murders. I'm thinking he's the type of bully that acts all tough with his mates, and the second he is confronted alone he would cry like a little baby. I'm glad to have gutted the idiot!



3. Vaughn himself. I find him more repulsive than Arl Howe. At least Howe's evil deeds was for political power. Vaughn just kidnaps and rapes elven women for 'fun.' And he got bottled by an elven 'wretch' but needs a full escort of guards to exact his revenge. I'm guessing he was best buddies with that Nola-killing guard way back in school.



4. That old chantry lady at Ostagar. When Uldred suggested to use magic instead of lighting the beacon at the Tower of Ishal, stupid old chantry lady just butted in and spewed the usual chantry rubbish about how 'evil' magic is. If the mages were just allowed to use magic, Loghain would have less of an excuse for his inevitable betrayal, and the Battle of Ostagar could have been salvaged! And Uldred probably had personal 'issues' before the battle, and that bad mouthing form old chantry lady might have pushed him over the edge. So I blame the annoying old chantry lady for both the Ostagar disaster and the Circle of Magi incident.



5. Tamlen. Annoying brat gets himself killed because he can't even resist touching a mysterious and ominous looking mirror. Found in a room with a Berserkern. A room in ruins full of darkspawn and Maker-knows-what. I used to think Jowan was a bit thick but Tamlen takes the cake.

[Mistersunshine]

Unlike most of the people here, I liked Anora. I liked her a lot, actually. The first time my human noble rogue met her, he was already planning their wedding.



I didn't "like" or agree with Loghain or Branka, but I could get where they were coming from. They were out of line, and needed to be confronted, but they had at least a theoretically defensible position to work from.



Loghain's deal was that Orlais is the worst, most dangerous thing for Ferelden, period. Anything was acceptable if it kept the Orlesians out. Having read the novels, I could see his reasons for thinking that, and for going to the extremes that he did. Was he right? Oh, probably not, and his methods crossed a line of acceptability. He deserved whatever he got. But he didn't enrage me. I could see his side, at least a bit.



Branka was even less clear-cut. She very well might have been RIGHT. From reading all of the Codex entries in Orzammar and the Deep Roads, you can get a very strong impression that the dwarves are, essentially . . . doomed. That they're fighting what is very much a losing battle, and that it's only a matter of time before they are actually wiped out forever. If that's the case, then perhaps Branka's plan WAS, in fact, the only hope for saving the dwarven people. Which would make her otherwise atrocious choices suddenly seem a lot more justifiable. At least, it makes her possibly only a sadly misguided hero rather than an outright villain. Perhaps, anyway. Still, it's enough "reasonable doubt" to make me not hate her.



I'll definitely jump on the hating Isolde bandwagon, though. Wow, she was aggravating. The idea of kicking her off a cliff seems pretty appealing. Stupid Orlesian hag.



Most of my minor rage moments came from Morrigan, who was, frankly, just ridiculous with her disapproval of everything. I often found myself wanting to tie her up in ribbons and deliver her to the templars. "Let's see how much you disapprove of when you're tranquil, witch!"



I was deeply disappointed by what I would characterize as Alistair's betrayal at the Landsmeet. I get why he was upset, I understand his side of things, but his willingness to totally abandon his (now) best friend in the world, his cause, his duty, and the memory and meaning of Duncan's death, because he was throwing a fit . . . it really made me angry with him. To me, his decision there, in light of all we'd been through together, and all that was at stake, made me view him as nothing more than a petty, weak-minded child lacking in personal integrity. I'd expected more from him.



Arl Howe was obviously a really bad guy, and my character loathed him and was overjoyed to end his filthy life. But even he didn't really make me extremely mad. He was a great villain, but he didn't push my personal buttons enough to bring out the real rage. Not even close to on par with Vaughan in terms of making me want to rip him to pieces, in any case.



The injustices of the dwarven caste system were pretty appalling, too. The casteless baby and its mother, that brought up some bile.



Zathrian was a jerk, as were pretty much all of the Dalish, really. Whatever might have been cool or special about their "ancient culture" was more or less totally submerged beneath the GIANT CHIP on everyone's shoulder. But Zathrian was just unexcusable. What a tool.



Ser Cauthrien seemed unnecessarily rude, but didn't bother me all that much. I did enjoy putting her in her place, though.



I'd say that other than Vaughan, my biggest rage moment was Alistair's complete turnaround at the Landsmeet. Followed by a whole bunch of Morrigan nonsense.



But none of them held a candle to Vaughan and that whole situation. That really got to me.

[Chas1024]

mark holford wrote...
#2 - Jowan  - I can't believe he was my *friend*.   I had no regrets in having him executed.

I had a problem working out how he could have become my friend. I decided that my male mage only hung out with he because the chicks liked him (can't think why). As for my female mage, well he just sort of attached himself to her and the friend think was just his fantasy.

[Maximus741000]

Mistersunshine wrote...

Unlike most of the people here, I liked Anora. I liked her a lot, actually. The first time my human noble rogue met her, he was already planning their wedding.

You know, I found Anora to be the least of my hated characters, in comparison to people like Loghain, Howe, Cauthrien, Zathrian and Bhelen, she is in fact the lesser evil, despite the fact that time after time she's proved to be more hated than any other character, enough to make even the darkspawn look loved. AIronically her leadership of Ferelden is not a condemning one, I ruled alongside her as a male Human Noble, and during that character's story, I found more of her positive aspects, she even mentioned Teyrna Eleanor Cousland, the HN's mother, with kind familiarity.

Most of your poitns I agree on, EXCEPT for the attitude about the Dalish in general, they aren't all complete jerks like Zathrian, they've suffered a lot.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

When I learned that Loghain betrayed the Grey Wardens I was actually pretty mad...