74 réponses à ce sujet

[AttackDog]

This is about evolution of the industry.



There was a time when everyone purchased music CDs. Then a lot of people started pirating music, eventually the music industry and the consumers found a happy medium. Now most people are more then happy to just go to Amazon or iTunes and plop down some cash for digital downloads of music. The same thing is happening with TV shows. Before they were free and you watched them when they were on. Now you can go to iTunes and pay a few bucks so you can watch it whenever you want.



The gaming industry is going through something similar. They are trying to find a happy medium with the consumer for DLC, while also combatting the 'garage sale effect' that the re-sale market has created.



Think about it. Game Stop is a trading outlet for games, they buy a game from you for $7 and sell it to someone for $20. BioWare and EA make exactly zero on that transaction. If 25% of the 2 million first week copies of Mass Effect 2 were sold through re-sale outlets then BioWare/EA lose $30,000,000.00 in revenue. That is a huge number!



Personally, I am fine with it. If you pay for the game for $60.00 you get everything that you would expect from a brand new fully featured game. If you are not willing to buy a new game then you must deal with the consequences... companies are not doing this to hurt the gamers, they are trying to resolve an issue where a used game broker/middle man is purchasing up their intellectual property and reselling it at a profit while not sharing a dime with the publisher/developer.



Eventually this won't be an issue anymore. Digital Distribution will probably take over the industry eventually... it will be like Steam for your Consoles.

[Mezinger]

I don't like EA... I don't like that Bioware is no longer independent... And for people who think EA doesn't have any influence (or publishers in general never mind owners) that is just wrong... and I would suggest you should follow video game industry news a bit closer... however that said EA are not likely to be "killing kittens at board meetings"... wow that's just dark...



Anyway somewhere buried deep in these forums there's some links to the YouTube interview with one of the Bioware founders Ray Mayzuchuck(sp) entitled the After Math of Mass Effect 2 (worth a watch) and he clearly says something to the affect... our old school fans better suck it up... appealing to the mainstream is something you have to do in today's industry to stay viable... It's a sad day for the rest of us when independent developers can no longer afford to create a grade A games that appeal to a niche market...



I fear its the beginning of the end of video game creativity and innovation from blockbuster developers... future innovation will come from one or two people working in a basement ala Braid... which is better than no innovation at all but comes with certain limitations...



And everything else will be more of the same for the ADD crowd.



</rant>

[kiyyto]

Abriael_CG wrote...

To put it down simply, the preowned gaming market has become big, and has started to seriously damage the earnings of software houses and publishers, in favor of retailers, that can grab profit from a game multiple times, and deprieve the developer from further sales.

Tough ****.
That is life. Deal with it. It isn’t going to change until digital distribution takes hold on consoles, like steam has on the PC.

Abriael_CG wrote...
My best friend is the store manager of a Gamestop, we decided to have a little experiment. We marked the inside of the case of five preowned copies of Assassin's Creed 2. Of those five, one was resold just once and we never saw it again, three were returned and resold once again. And one was returned and resold TWICE, this before the end of december.
That was, a total of 5 (original sale, the only one for which the publisher/sh saw any money) +5 (first resale) + 3 (second resale) + 1 (last resale) = 14 people that, in less than two months, played the game, and only 5 (30%) of those sales actually supported the developer.

You seriously think that developers are going to stand for that much longer? 
You should be already happy that they're not using more draconian measures to fight that (like for instance limited activation codes). Instead they're still allowing people to but it preowned if they so wish, with a lil less content but still perfectly enjoyable. It's a very balanced approach. 

You are a tool.
Gamestop is a rip-off. They hardly discount any good game more than $5.00 and the cerberus network is $15.00.
Besides that, developers have no right to tell someone what to do with a game after they’ve bought it. you can and should be able to sell it to whomever you want. 

This is not going to change and retail knows that very well, which is why you always see GOTY editions a year after the initial release. The games business works just like any other - it realizes that different people have different price points at which they will commit to a sale.

If you have to have the latest game on release day you will pay the most, if you can wait a year you’ll get it cheaper and actually get the entire game.

Abriael_CG wrote...
The preowned market, while sure advantageous for many, is a leak in the gaming market, through which lots of money pours out of the cycle, and is basically lost to the market itself.

Do you realize how stupid you sound?
Do you like regurgitating the words of a media ****?
Try this: Don’t be a tool and think for yourself. The 21 billion dollar gaming market doesn’t need your help, but if you feel like donating more money to their pockets through your own stupidity, they’ll be happy to take your money from you.

Abriael_CG wrote...
Personally, I'm much more happy if money from my purchase goes to support the developer and in turn finance more content/sequels/games that I can enjoy, Instead of going to lay dead in the coffers of Gamestop with the developer not seeing a dime.

I repeat, you are a tool.
No video game is actually worth $60.00. Nothing is sold for what it is worth, hence profit.
If I absolutely love a video game then I might buy it, maybe, but that hardly ever because quality games belong to very few developers. Mass Effect 2 is disappointing precisely because BioWare is capable of creating Mass Effect + Mass Effect 2, but instead we have what we’ve got.

**** gamestop and **** the developer who releases a **** game.

Abriael_CG wrote...
So, yeah, the Cerberus Network is a very positive thing. It doesn't FORCE you to buy the game new, but it encourages you to do so, or if you don't, to still give some money to the developer, keeping at least part of the money from your purchases in the cycle of the market instead of fattening a retailer that contributes nothing to the market itself.

You love being moronic.
Cerberus encourages you to pay more money than you should have to pay in order to play the game, because by adding cerberus they are keeping a portion of the finished game from you, and forcing you to pay an extra $15.00 if you didn’t buy the game retail. This isn’t DLC. This is extortion.

I agree with the OP, tool.

[AttackDog]

Mezinger wrote...

I don't like EA... I don't like that Bioware is no longer independent... And for people who think EA doesn't have any influence (or publishers in general never mind owners) that is just wrong... and I would suggest you should follow video game industry news a bit closer... however that said EA are not likely to be "killing kittens at board meetings"... wow that's just dark...

Anyway somewhere buried deep in these forums there's some links to the YouTube interview with one of the Bioware founders Ray Mayzuchuck(sp) entitled the After Math of Mass Effect 2 (worth a watch) and he clearly says something to the affect... our old school fans better suck it up... appealing to the mainstream is something you have to do in today's industry to stay viable... It's a sad day for the rest of us when independent developers can no longer afford to create a grade A games that appeal to a niche market...

I fear its the beginning of the end of video game creativity and innovation from blockbuster developers... future innovation will come from one or two people working in a basement ala Braid... which is better than no innovation at all but comes with certain limitations...

And everything else will be more of the same for the ADD crowd.

Wow... I guess we can agree to disagree if you feel like Mass Effect 2 is some sort of dumbed down effort from BioWare that lacks creativity... but really... wow.

[kiyyto]

AttackDog wrote...

Think about it. Game Stop is a trading outlet for games, they buy a game from you for $7 and sell it to someone for $20. BioWare and EA make exactly zero on that transaction. If 25% of the 2 million first week copies of Mass Effect 2 were sold through re-sale outlets then BioWare/EA lose $30,000,000.00 in revenue. That is a huge number!

Your number is so far away from reality.
You really think that 1/4 of first week sales are from used games?
Wow, so how long have you been working at EA?
It must be a pretty easy job, convincing kids that they are killing good games by not supporting developers with that extra five bucks. Meanwhile, you (EA) are the one running around buying up gaming houses and diluting all the good studios into tap water.

[kiyyto]

Mezinger wrote...

I don't like EA... I don't like that Bioware is no longer independent... And for people who think EA doesn't have any influence (or publishers in general never mind owners) that is just wrong... and I would suggest you should follow video game industry news a bit closer... however that said EA are not likely to be "killing kittens at board meetings"... wow that's just dark...

Anyway somewhere buried deep in these forums there's some links to the YouTube interview with one of the Bioware founders Ray Mayzuchuck(sp) entitled the After Math of Mass Effect 2 (worth a watch) and he clearly says something to the affect... our old school fans better suck it up... appealing to the mainstream is something you have to do in today's industry to stay viable... It's a sad day for the rest of us when independent developers can no longer afford to create a grade A games that appeal to a niche market...

I fear its the beginning of the end of video game creativity and innovation from blockbuster developers... future innovation will come from one or two people working in a basement ala Braid... which is better than no innovation at all but comes with certain limitations...

And everything else will be more of the same for the ADD crowd.

This guy has it exactly right.
Very few actual people, actual gamers, would defend EA or bash people buying games used. Most likely what you see all over this forum are lowly people from a social engineering company who register at this site and get paid $8.00 an hour to say good things about the game and the company that owns it. It happens all the time.

[AttackDog]

kiyyto wrote...

AttackDog wrote...

Think about it. Game Stop is a trading outlet for games, they buy a game from you for $7 and sell it to someone for $20. BioWare and EA make exactly zero on that transaction. If 25% of the 2 million first week copies of Mass Effect 2 were sold through re-sale outlets then BioWare/EA lose $30,000,000.00 in revenue. That is a huge number!

Your number is so far away from reality.
You really think that 1/4 of first week sales are from used games?
Wow, so how long have you been working at EA?
It must be a pretty easy job, convincing kids that they are killing good games by not supporting developers with that extra five bucks. Meanwhile, you (EA) are the one running around buying up gaming houses and diluting all the good studios into tap water.

To clarify I think that very little of the first week sales was from used games... you make a good point, it was a poor choice to use as an example number.  I was just using an example number that might be more relevant after the game is out for six months...

[lyravega]

obie191970 wrote...

If you think EA had any influence over the design direction of ME2, you are crazy. This is the game that Bioware wanted to make, like it or not.

A publisher "lends" money to a developer. In return, expects developer to finish the game in given time period. They can interfere with anything, or even cancel the title if sales are going to be low, aka, there's another project that'll get them more money. When the game is out, most of the money goes to publishers, not developers. That's what I think anyway.

[Abriael_CG]

Elder Drake wrote...

I wasn't going to post back but wow, you are an ass.

You continue to show a lot of coherence. First you complain that people insult, then you proceed to be the insulting one. Funny.

kiyyto wrote...
Tough ****.
That is life. Deal with it. It isn’t going to change until digital distribution takes hold on consoles, like steam has on the PC.

And guess what, that's exactly what they did with the Cerberus Network. They "dealt with it".

Abriael_CG wrote...
You are a tool.

Told by you, given your general tones. That seems to be quite a compliment.

Gamestop is a rip-off. They hardly discount any good game more than $5.00 and the cerberus network is $15.00.
Besides that, developers have no right to tell someone what to do with a game after they’ve bought it. you can and should be able to sell it to whomever you want.

And in fact they're not telling anyone what to do with what they bought. They are encouraging people to buy the new product instead of preowned. Which is a quite positive attitude.

This is not going to change and retail knows that very well, which is why you always see GOTY editions a year after the initial release. The games business works just like any other - it realizes that different people have different price points at which they will commit to a sale.

This is all good and well. In fact the Cerberus Network doesn't prevent you from buying the game preowned. If you want, go ahead. But there's no reason why you should demand the same rights and content as the ones that actually pay full price and support the industry.

Do you realize how stupid you sound?

Do you realize how rude and profane you sound?

Do you like regurgitating the words of a media ****?
Try this: Don’t be a tool and think for yourself. The 21 billion dollar gaming market doesn’t need your help, but if you feel like donating more money to their pockets through your own stupidity, they’ll be happy to take your money from you.

Actually, the market cycle is a well proven economy concept, it has nothing to do with the media.
I don't "donate" anything. I pay a price to purchase a product (and a good product to boot). If everyone reasoned like you there would be no "21 billion dollar market" and no games to play.

No video game is actually worth $60.00. Nothing is sold for what it is worth, hence profit.

You know, gam developers aren't benefactors that make their games for charity. They're companies, and they need a profit to continue working. If you aren't willing to pay $60 good for you, don't buy it, or buy it preowned. You won't have the content from Cerberus, big deal.
Or maybe you're just envious because you want EVERYTHING for a lower price? In that case, though luck.

Cerberus encourages you to pay more money than you should have to pay in order to play the game, because by adding cerberus they are keeping a portion of the finished game from you, and forcing you to pay an extra $15.00 if you didn’t buy the game retail. This isn’t DLC. This is extortion.

The game is complete and 100% playable without zaeed and the cerberus content, so your point is moot, I'm afraid. You're given four perfectly viable options:

1: Buy the game new and have all the content
2: Buy the game preowned and STILL have a perfectly playable and enjoyable game
3: Buy the game preowned and then purchase the cerberus content separately
4: Don't buy the game at all, since it's not doctor's orders to play it.

If none of those options appeals to you, then I'm afraid this is entirely your problem. As much as you'd like it to be different, Zaeed isn't included in your constitutional rights.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 02 février 2010 - 02:58 .

[Blue_dodo]

obie191970 wrote...

If you think EA had any influence over the design direction of ME2, you are crazy. This is the game that Bioware wanted to make, like it or not.

obie no matter what you say epeople are still going to beilieve that ea some how was at fault...for EVERYTHING


an wtf is wrong with the cerberous network, 15 bucks for free content in the future ? how is that bad ? I think people would at least be happierwith it then EA did before with securarom but NOOOO

god  I hate this forum

[Plasma Prestige]

The fact of the matter is, the armor customization, and upgrades int he first game were over complicated and time consuming. I had to spend about 2 minutes to properly organize inventory, determining what the hell everything was, and then assigning certain items to certain members based on their stats. This was just a pain in the ass. The new upgrades research terminal is far superior. This game doesn't dumb anything down, it tries to improve upon flaws of the first game. If you view flaws as assets, then you are the misled one here.

[Darth Drago]

I cant vouch for what possible influences EA may have had in this game development but I do have to agree that the Cerberus Network is a money grabbing scam. Think about it people, you either didn’t get the deluxe edition game because you cant find a copy or you cant afford to pay the extra money to get it be it the $69 retail price or the rip off $120 on Amazon. Now you get to pay an extra $15 for something that came in that deluxe edition to get access to some downloadable content. Keep in mind that deluxe edion would have only cost $10 more if you got it in a store. What a crock that is. This does sound like something EA would come up with when you look at the crap they try and con you to buy for their last Madden game. I have problem paying for the available downloadable content for Mass Effect but will not pay extra to be able to get to that content. As for the crap that was for Madden I consider all of that content as content that should have been in the game from the start. Games cost to much as it is its time to put our foot down on some of this fleecing us for more money. This Cerberus Network has nothing to do with pre owned games. If a game came with a special code to unlock something then that code should be as unique as the code for something like Microsoft points cards. It wouldn’t be able to be reused by someone else. Also when you download something off the X-Box marketplace its bound to your account and as far as I know shouldn’t be able to be transferred to another account.


I have yet to get me a copy of Mass Effect 2 since I do want to get the deluxe edition, not just for the downloadable content but the other stuff as well so I cant say anything about the game content but from what I’m hearing a lot of the changes are questionable at best as to why they would change it.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 02 février 2010 - 03:31 .

[Abriael_CG]

Darth Drago wrote...
I cant vouch for what possible influences EA may have had in this game development but I do have to agree that the Cerberus Network is a money grabbing scam. Think about it people, you either didn’t get the deluxe edition 

I can stop you right there.

The Cerberus network is included in ALL the original new copies of Mass Effect. You have to pay nothing extra.
The only way you won't have it is if you buy the game preowned, since the previous owner will have already used the code.

[Darth Drago]

Sorry, then I stand corrected on that but I didn’t see anything on the regular edition about a “Limited edition Cerberus Network card granting access to bonus content.” like its listed on the deluxe edition. Maybe I missed it when I glanced at the regular game at the store.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

God I really have to clarify something for those of you who are uninformed.



You don't have to be a member of the Cerberus Network to pay for premium ME2 DLC. The Cerberus Network is there to provide access to the free DLC.



You are not paying for the Cerberus Network in order to pay for premium DLC.



As for the "EA Effect" and other such nonsense... you don't know what you're talking about.



I can say with some certainty that Bioware has a good enough reputation and a strong enough market that EA does not butt in on design decisions. Obviously the publisher always has a say but I'm sure Bioware is given significant creative freedoms.



EA did not tell bioware "Get rid of the inventory system". They did not tell bioware "Make it a shooter!". Mass Effect HAS ALWAYS BEEN a Shooter/RPG hybrid. However, ME1 was an incredibly flawed game when you look back at it without your nostalgia goggles. You may not like some design decisions Bioware made with ME2 but to blame EA for it and to even go as far to say that the game is WORSE because of it?



I hope you're all just a bunch of trolls, because otherwise you're just affirming your ignorance. Your inability to be properly informed before ****ing, your ignorance of EA's role in development and your complete disregard for subjectivity. (Waah I don't like X mechanic so therefore the game sucks and EA made it suck)

[RogueAI]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. You hit the jackpot. EA has totally ruined Bioware, and as long as I'm concerned, Bioware is EA. Just rename this site to EA social network since it really doesn't make any difference anyways.

Now we can expect to get nickeled and dimed to death. I expect overpriced mission packs, and for the fanboys to eat that excrement up.

[Veex]

RogueAI wrote...

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. You hit the jackpot. EA has totally ruined Bioware, and as long as I'm concerned, Bioware is EA. Just rename this site to EA social network since it really doesn't make any difference anyways.

Now we can expect to get nickeled and dimed to death. I expect overpriced mission packs, and for the fanboys to eat that excrement up.

If this is how you really feel prove it with your wallet and participation. Don't purchase BioWare games and don't support their products.

[Jonas TM]

As Tycho would say, EA is teh f***ing devil. That said I think ME2 was every bit as good as the first one if not better.



You can defiantly see EA's money grubbing mitts on some aspects, not the least of which being the DLC related stuff, but to say this game is rushed is utter nonsense. That's not to say some people don't have valid concerns; lack of weapon variety and differentiating skills between classes, and general "dumbing down" of some aspects. But, people should be far more worried about the future - ME2 was well along in development when EA bought Bioware, EA now has the opportunity to meddle with the third one from the ground up and do to it what all the doom-sayers believe they did to this one.



Do not delude yourselves, EA has not changed, they may have more indi games, but they will still ruin entire studios and franchises just to make a quick buck.

[AK118]

Samurai Pumpkin wrote...

I hate the fact that you see the EA logo TWICE before you have a chance to "Press any key to play" you know?

Mandatory splash screen that we can't get rid of and it's plastered on the start screen.

plus if you're offline, it says you can't connect to cerberus and flashes you again.

[Sabiusman]

EA planted its seeds of suck in the past, and now its time to harvest the hatred.

[jpetrey123]

ok i did not read all the posts through here, but i read a couple about "long time fans of bioware being...dadadada" bioware does not have to me just full fledged RPG's they can stray a bit. this game is great.

also about EA because of EA bioware has probably made a lot, and i mean a lot more money already. with EA's marketing, and bioware's game development they could make great games and a ton of money. only time will tell what EA does to bioware.

P.S. old school RPGs are on the way out the door. theres only so many ways the whole fantasy elves, orcs thing can be done. with futuristic guns and what not this direction for ME2 just feels right. alright the game could use a patch to put in some more armor custimaztion(sp). but overall good game.

[Bigeyez]

1. Who knows what DLC we'll get in the future. You're just speculating.



2. I'm not even going to get into this arguement. This is as subjective as subjective gets considering no one can even agree on the definition of what an RPG is.



3. And why shouldn't Bioware recieve money for their game? If you buy used you are giving your money to the retail store and Bioware doesn't see a dime. Making you pay 15 dollars to access DLC is the only thing they can do to fight against used game sales. Bottom line, if you like the game, support the company who made it. Don't buy used.

[ZMJ10]

screw EA they ruin games they just want money they dont care about the ppl or the art that is RPG

i hope bioware drops EA before the relase of ME3 soo they can do some real work.

[cv1545x]

I find it ironic that ME2 is about going under the control of Cerberus when Bioware has gone under the control of EA. Both organizations have a negative stigma attached and both organizations give off red flags in everything that they do.



When EA bought the NFL games rights back in 2004 to shut out all competition they said it was for the betterment of NFL football games and they would be able to do unprecedented things with their Madden game now that they had complete access and sole access into the NFL. The result: A game receiving the bare minimum up upgrades since 2004 until the present.



Kind of like how Cerberus claims that it wants to advance Humanities position in the galaxy. Actually I think it is clear they want complete control of the galaxy at the expense of everyone else.

[Starbiter]

Samurai Pumpkin wrote...

I hate the fact that you see the EA logo TWICE before you have a chance to "Press any key to play" you know?

Mandatory splash screen that we can't get rid of and it's plastered on the start screen.

pretty much summed it up.

whenever I see the EA logo i get sick.