91 réponses à ce sujet

[Soruyao]

*Police officer puts a single handcuff on a criminal. Criminal blinks.* "Aren't you supposed to have a pair of these and attach me to something?"



The cop just looks at him, confused.

[Conan1234100]

 I have tried to constantly be paragon but somehow when i chose a Paragon decision i recieved Renegade points when recruiting Samara

[SurfaceBeneath]

Mass Effect 1 did this too. Recall that the maximum points you could invest in your Paragon/Renegade score was capped at your Paragon/Renegade meter.



However, there is enough Paragon and Renegade points that even going just half of one and half neutral should still max it. My last playthrough I did as an experiment to see how high in both Renegade and Paragon I could get and I ended up achieving 100% paragon and slightly over 80% renegade.

[nenri]

Paragon / Renegade not about good or bad. Paragon character same goal as Renegade character : prevent extinction of cognitive life in universe; that is why paragon and renegade are not on a sliding moral scale.

Only difference is the philosophy to reach that goal : virtuous actions only matters for paragon characters -the deontological approach- whereas renegade characters are consequentialists, the goal justifies the means. The hero decides which approach to choose in ambiguous situations (Rachni, genophage, true geth)

I believe the paragon/renegade system could use some improvements but in regards to the story controlling ideas of the mass effect series (human potential in Mass Effect, human resolve in Mass Effect 2) the system is appropriate.

[FTA Talisman]

I guess I have to see your point. You can feel a little confined by the dialogue options if you think about it, and there are definitely points where I thought the options didn't make sense and weren't completely relevant to the situation.

[Luced0]

You have such a good point. I liked in Mass effect 1 that if I put enough skill points into Persuasion or intimidation or both I got my pick of how conversations went. I could be an ass whenn I wanted and help out the little guy or criminals when the mood took me. In me 2 I have to follow a very specific path thats basicly predetermined by how Much I leaned to 1 side or the other in ME 1 if I was lucky to enough to have not bin nuetral.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Luced0 wrote...

You have such a good point. I liked in Mass effect 1 that if I put enough skill points into Persuasion or intimidation or both I got my pick of how conversations went. I could be an ass whenn I wanted and help out the little guy or criminals when the mood took me. In me 2 I have to follow a very specific path thats basicly predetermined by how Much I leaned to 1 side or the other in ME 1 if I was lucky to enough to have not bin nuetral.

Your memory of the ME1 system is flawed. You were capped in how many points you could place in your persuasion skills based on how many Paragon/Renegade points you had. If you straddled the line in the first game, you could not max out either persuasion skill either.

At least in ME2 though you're not punished quite as badly for going the midline since at least you don't have to throw stat points in to persuasion skills any more.

[Jackal904]

I completely agree with the OP. It's very frustrating because I feel I can't choose the dialogue options I really want to choose.

[wowpwnslol]

The system was fine. You people cry too much.

[EternalWolfe]

Ok, not agree or disagree, but my main character from the First game as neutral, and imported into the second game as neutral. In the first game, he ended up 190 Renegade, 184 Paragon.



With him, as neutral in the second, I didn't have any problem with Paragon/Renegade until certain Loyalty Missions(Jack's, the final decision on Tali's, Miranda vs Jack), which I was able to do(barely, just enough Renegade for the last one) by changing to Agent class and equipping the Death Mask from Tuchunka.

[RovingRube]

I did like the duality of the morality system... puzzling over why I got Renegade points when I was trying to be a Paragon... feel it reflects that people are a mix of good and bad and that you are going to inevitably do some bad things when you are Shepard, that you have to live with. Or also considering that being a "Renegade" is not necessarily the same as being evil.

[Looy]

I agree about the morality system being linked to persuasion being stupid. I think any kind of morality tracking system is stupid.

[RovingRube]

Well .... also in defense of the morality system ... which perhaps is not best term.. but it reminded me of C.S. Lewis's proposition that people become better or worse only gradually, by consistently doing the right or wrong thing... so you are able to do harder and harder "good" things as you build yourself up ... or conversely it becomes easier to do even worse things... and people will go along with you because of the conviction you come to put behind what you say ... whereas if you're a neutral person... it's hard to persuade others if you are a neutral person ... although ... Jaheira in BG was "neutral", and she put strong conviction behind it!

[Yeled]

The issue isn't that there aren't enough paragon or renegade choices or that the system rewards on an either/or basis (or doesn't). The issue is the neutral choices net you nothing. You are always hurting yourself just a little bit by taking the middle path.



If they added in a third type of points, with corresponding unlockable dialogue options, so that every time you made a choice you got something for it, it would fix at least some of the OPs problem.

[yuncas]

Nomadder wrote...

I'm writing this not to get into a debate, but simply to voice my concern so that hopefully the devs see.  If others agree then hopefully they add their voices.
Mass Effect is supposedly about player choices, but at a certain point, if you
play any way other than "Super Nice Guy" or "Galactic Jackass" you
start finding yourself punished with fewer dialogue options, and in
many less desirable situations because of that.
(...Some of which would seem to be
common sense for ANYONE.  Like NOT picking a side in a cat fight. 
Apparently since I only had three bars of Paragon, and one of Renegade,
I was too stupid to figure out that YOU DON'T PICK A SIDE. 
Also, in the interrogatioon scene, since I was too much of a
goody-goody, I wasn't able to say "I'm a Spectre", but apparently
I wasn't too nice to think of beating the guy to a pulp... )
Why am I being punished for adding nuance and balance to my character?
Taking out persuasion/intimidation and simply basing it on choices might have seemed like a good idea on paper, but it actually discourages playing freely.  It discourages "playing like I would be".  It discourages real CHOICE.
To restate, why are we following a model of Specialization and Comparitive Advantage... for personality and morality???

I have other problems with the game, and I suppose I'll quickly list them just in case anybody from Bioware listens.  I'm sure some of these have been gone over in other posts so I won't go into detail.
Simplistic overhaul of inventory and skill systems.
Why do the character sub-plots now comprise the bulk of the game?

There, those are my concerns with the direction the series has taken.

 I agree with the original post. I would care to see somethig like a general persuade skill which could either be used to intimidate, inspire, or just simply convince. I definitley missed the middle of the road approach that was accesible in ME1. As to the concern for the inventory take a look at this thread if you haven't already. It's pretty well put together.