80 réponses à ce sujet

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

It seems the developers overvauled magazine capacity. Sure submachine gun A might allow me to fire twice as long as submachine gun B, but if I'm playing on Verteran/Hardcore/Insanity that's irrelevant because if I stay that long out of cover I'm going to get dead. All the large magazine versions of each weapon class seem to suck.

The exceptions are:
-The Revenant Light Machine Gun. Even with its massive ammo capacity, it still has the highest dps of all Assault Rifles.
[Edit]
I was wrong about the Collector Beam.

Revenant can't headshot very well and can miss a lot of shots. It is definitely not the best assault rifle because it's inaccurate as hell, especially if you have any FPS skill at all (not like you need much with Adrenaline Rush). Think of the Revenant like Sasha in TF2.

you just stick to infiltrators and giving ****** poor advice to boot. Rvenant has fine accuracy up to medium range when you have adrenaline rush going. And why would you be shooting it without adrenaline rush? Adrenaline rush reduces recoil, sherlock, and if you really  want to fire it outside of adrenaline, there is something that REAL FPS players know how to do with automatic weapons to increase their accuracy: use 3-5 shot bursts. Duh.

[WillieStyle]

Taking burst into consideration only alters the ranking of submachine guns in my opinion. Some may argue that it affects Shotguns as well. I disagree, but your millage may vary.

In the case of sniper rifles, considering burst actually makes the viper look WORSE in comparison to the Widow.

Relative rate of fire for the viper is 240/70 = 3.43
But since the Viper only fires in 3-shot bursts, its burst damage is only 81.9*3 = 245.7
The Widow, on the other hand, deals 368.3 damage with a 1-shot "burst."

Widow > Viper unless you're really bad at aiming.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 01 février 2010 - 07:59 .

[vhatever]

Viper doesn't fire in burst. WTF dude? do you even play this game? Youa re the only person here that says more ignorant stuff than hoff.

[MANoob]

Actually Viper beats Widow against trash mobs outright because Widow is simply an overkill.

[WillieStyle]

vhatever wrote...

Viper doesn't fire in burst. WTF dude? do you even play this game? Youa re the only person here that says more ignorant stuff than hoff.

In this context, by "burst" I mean the number of shots you can get off in a typical ~2 second sniper window.
Do others find they can get off more than 3 shots with the Viper before cloak  wears off?  May be I just suck at this game but I can't.

Actually Viper beats Widow against trash mobs outright because Widow is simply an overkill.

Heh! This is true if you can kill the enemy with 2 shots or less from the Viper.  In that case, the Viper will last longer on the same amount of ammo.
However:
1) I rarely if ever run out of sniper rifle ammo.
2) I wouldn't use either sniper rifle against anything I could finish off so easily.  I either pop out an SMG/Pistol to finish it off or leave it to my squad mates while I snipe something else with more hitpoints/armor.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 01 février 2010 - 08:12 .

[rumination888]

Different weapon types also have different range penalties. Despite the fact that all weapons deal double damage, even the sniper rifle recieves an additional range penalty up close. I think only the Geth Pulse Rifle has 0 range penalty, and only the shotgun removes the ranged penalty completely at melee range. The Revenant is in the category of LMG for a reason. Theres a reason why people experience it downing enemies faster than the Vindicator.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

It seems the developers overvauled magazine capacity. Sure submachine gun A might allow me to fire twice as long as submachine gun B, but if I'm playing on Verteran/Hardcore/Insanity that's irrelevant because if I stay that long out of cover I'm going to get dead. All the large magazine versions of each weapon class seem to suck.

The exceptions are:
-The Revenant Light Machine Gun. Even with its massive ammo capacity, it still has the highest dps of all Assault Rifles.
[Edit]
I was wrong about the Collector Beam.

Revenant can't headshot very well and can miss a lot of shots. It is definitely not the best assault rifle because it's inaccurate as hell, especially if you have any FPS skill at all (not like you need much with Adrenaline Rush). Think of the Revenant like Sasha in TF2.

you just stick to infiltrators and giving ****** poor advice to boot. Rvenant has fine accuracy up to medium range when you have adrenaline rush going. And why would you be shooting it without adrenaline rush? Adrenaline rush reduces recoil, sherlock, and if you really  want to fire it outside of adrenaline, there is something that REAL FPS players know how to do with automatic weapons to increase their accuracy: use 3-5 shot bursts. Duh.

So you're gonna take a fully automatic weapon that does less damage per shot and fire it in bursts in the exact same way the Vindicator does and still do more DPS than the Vindicator? Yea that makes perfect sense. Also, Adrenaline Rush doesn't reduce recoil, it makes things fire slower sure, but this doesn't reduce recoil, it just makes it easier to compensate for felt recoil. This is pointless because the main problem with the Revenant is the random cone of fire that increases as you shoot it, not the screen jumping around due to the recoil.

I'm done arguing with people of vastly inferior intellect. It's like arguing with a 12 year old, pointless and pathetic. Have fun wallowing in your stupidity.

[WillieStyle]

This has the potential to be a very valuable thread. Can we please not undermine the OP's hard work by turning it into a flame war?

[WillieStyle]

rumination888 wrote...

Different weapon types also have different range penalties. Despite the fact that all weapons deal double damage, even the sniper rifle recieves an additional range penalty up close. I think only the Geth Pulse Rifle has 0 range penalty, and only the shotgun removes the ranged penalty completely at melee range. The Revenant is in the category of LMG for a reason. Theres a reason why people experience it downing enemies faster than the Vindicator.

Could you explain weapon range penalties please?
Do weapons get a damage penalty for firing at long range, or close range, or both?

[vhatever]

LOL. That "increasing random cone of fire" is what the recoil does. ROFL. DUH.



And you act like you are some sort FPS player, much like you act like you know what you are talking about in ME2. Please do go away, and quit offering garbage information.

[Hoffburger]

rumination888 wrote...

Different weapon types also have different range penalties. Despite the fact that all weapons deal double damage, even the sniper rifle recieves an additional range penalty up close. I think only the Geth Pulse Rifle has 0 range penalty, and only the shotgun removes the ranged penalty completely at melee range. The Revenant is in the category of LMG for a reason. Theres a reason why people experience it downing enemies faster than the Vindicator.

True but not. Taken from another thread:

Regarding range -- there are four effective ranges for every weapon:
Melee, Short, Medium, and Long. By default, they are specified as 300,
800, 1500, and 2000 respectively. The following weapons have different
ranges:

Shotguns 300/400/800/1200
Sniper Rifles
300/800/2000/3000
Flamethrower 300/500/800/1000

Each range
confers different damage multipliers. For all weapons except for sniper
rifles, the multipliers are 2.0 for Melee, 1.25 for Short, and 1.0 for
Medium and Long. For sniper rifles, the multiplier is 1.0 at every
range.

So the Vindicator and the Revenant have the same range mods.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

LOL. That "increasing random cone of fire" is what the recoil does. ROFL. DUH.

And you act like you are some sort FPS player, much like you act like you know what you are talking about in ME2. Please do go away, and quit offering garbage information.

Someone else explain to the kid the difference between recoil and random cone of fire. He obviously has never fired a real weapon and can't understand the difference. I refuse to explain it to him.

[rumination888]

WillieStyle wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Different weapon types also have different range penalties. Despite the fact that all weapons deal double damage, even the sniper rifle recieves an additional range penalty up close. I think only the Geth Pulse Rifle has 0 range penalty, and only the shotgun removes the ranged penalty completely at melee range. The Revenant is in the category of LMG for a reason. Theres a reason why people experience it downing enemies faster than the Vindicator.

Could you explain weapon range penalties please?
Do weapons get a damage penalty for firing at long range, or close range, or both?

Pretty sure its both. Its there to enforce an optimal range on weapons. The OP talked a little about it in this thread. I dont know the exact formula, so don't ask.

[rumination888]

Hoffburger wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Different weapon types also have different range penalties. Despite the fact that all weapons deal double damage, even the sniper rifle recieves an additional range penalty up close. I think only the Geth Pulse Rifle has 0 range penalty, and only the shotgun removes the ranged penalty completely at melee range. The Revenant is in the category of LMG for a reason. Theres a reason why people experience it downing enemies faster than the Vindicator.

True but not. Taken from another thread:

Regarding range -- there are four effective ranges for every weapon:
Melee, Short, Medium, and Long. By default, they are specified as 300,
800, 1500, and 2000 respectively. The following weapons have different
ranges:

Shotguns 300/400/800/1200
Sniper Rifles
300/800/2000/3000
Flamethrower 300/500/800/1000

Each range
confers different damage multipliers. For all weapons except for sniper
rifles, the multipliers are 2.0 for Melee, 1.25 for Short, and 1.0 for
Medium and Long. For sniper rifles, the multiplier is 1.0 at every
range.

So the Vindicator and the Revenant have the same range mods.

/facepalm
Thats only half of the ranged formula. As the OP pointed out, theres another multiplier called "friction".

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

LOL. That "increasing random cone of fire" is what the recoil does. ROFL. DUH.

And you act like you are some sort FPS player, much like you act like you know what you are talking about in ME2. Please do go away, and quit offering garbage information.

Someone else explain to the kid the difference between recoil and random cone of fire. He obviously has never fired a real weapon and can't understand the difference. I refuse to explain it to him.

You didn't say the "random cone of fire", you said the INCREASING random cone of fire, which is what the recoil is doing to your accuracy. It doesn't just push your aiming cursor away.

[WillieStyle]

Looking over Coalesced.ini,
All weapons seem to have:
MinFrictionDistance (usually between 0 and 300 units)
MaxFrictionDistance (usually between 500 and 200 units)
PeakFrictionDistance (between min and max friction distance).
FrictionMultiplierRange (two small values ~=0.2)
FrictionRadiusScale and Friction Height Scale.

It looks like Friction allows the devs to define how weapon damage changes with range for each weapon. However, it doesn't seem to be a simple equation. It looks like some weapons get a penalty for being too close while others don't. It also seems like a lot of weapons have an "optimum" firing distance around the middle of their range. This suggests that, even if you have very good aim, it might be worth it to move to cover closer to your enemies while fighting.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 01 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

MinFrictionDistance is globally set to zero which means (assuming I'm guessing correctly) that the penalty starts from zero meters. Shotguns override this value and apply penalty only after 320 units. 300 is also the value of melee range damage bonus, so at point blank range shotguns are especially deadly.

[WillieStyle]

Also the penalty is clearly nonlinear (hence the peak distance). Interesting concept.

Anyone know where I can find info on player abilities like Adrenaline Rush and Tactical Cloak?

[sticks435]

WillieStyle wrote...
It looks like Friction allows the devs to define how weapon damage changes with range for each weapon. However, it doesn't seem to be a simple equation. It looks like some weapons get a penalty for being too close while others don't. It also seems like a lot of weapons have an "optimum" firing distance around the middle of their range. This suggests that, even if you have very good aim, it might be worth it to move to cover closer to your enemies while fighting.

Yea, this seems logical. I remember during the x-fire stream Christina mentioned that they designed the levels/gameplay in a way that basically encouraged you to move forward while fighting, except for places where the enemies just weren't reachable.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Added burst values

[FireSarge]

the vindicator is a 5 round burst according to its in game description.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Game file says otherwise. There's an error in rifle description. I bet there are more mistakes.

[FireSarge]

i will double check but the rifle does fire 5 round bursts. at least the rifle makes the sound of fire 5 rounds

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

The sound is independent of these values. It's not much of a bug. Nobody would know without checking the file and burst value is just for calculation. I could set burst to 5 and reduce damage for the same result. Nothing would change in game, just these values which player can't see.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 01 février 2010 - 10:18 .

[vhatever]

Pretty sure it only fires three but i havent used it in a long time.