156 réponses à ce sujet

[Beavisan]

Maybe there will be customizable squad armor in an future DLC?

[Khavos]

newcomplex wrote...

The funny part is you guys are just manipulating with lore established in the game and novel to further your goals of character customization.   Funny and ironic.    

Nah.  If I was doing that, I'd point out that every mercenary and soldier in the game, biotic or otherwise, has the good sense to wear body armor into combat, whereas my ultra-elite squad has decided that surviving to save the universe is only a close second to looking cool.  

[Svest]

The simple answer to why the characters are less customizable is cost. There are nearly twice as many squad members in ME2 as there were in ME1. Adding many customizable suits for each of them would be incredibly expensive. The devs chose to make the characters distinctive and give up on a little realism so they could devote those resources elsewhere. Would people have preferred they went back to the "prefab" level interiors so Miranda could have a proper space suit?

[Noktarn]

Beavisan wrote...

Maybe there will be customizable squad armor in an future DLC?

This is what I am hoping for.

Not asking much... just some head protection for the guys who (reasonably) should be able to toggle them on and off.

If Jack doesn't "want" to use one cause it screws with her biotics or whatnot fine... I can get that.  Garrus? Zhaeed? The Dino guy (Sorry never use em, forget his name)? Zane (why not some awesome splinter cell getup?)? Jacob? These people should have toggable options.

Some sort of simple hoods or cool trinkets should be available for the biotic types.

Some of us just do not like seeing squadmates faces in every fight. I like my guys in badass gear.

[Noktarn]

Svest wrote...

The simple answer to why the characters are less customizable is cost. There are nearly twice as many squad members in ME2 as there were in ME1. Adding many customizable suits for each of them would be incredibly expensive. The devs chose to make the characters distinctive and give up on a little realism so they could devote those resources elsewhere. Would people have preferred they went back to the "prefab" level interiors so Miranda could have a proper space suit?

The simple answer is DLC.

I'll buy some coke's for squad helmets =p

Modifié par Noktarn, 01 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[Gorn Kregore]

lol you guys take games so seriously its funny

[Svest]

Noktarn wrote...

Svest wrote...

The simple answer to why the characters are less customizable is cost. There are nearly twice as many squad members in ME2 as there were in ME1. Adding many customizable suits for each of them would be incredibly expensive. The devs chose to make the characters distinctive and give up on a little realism so they could devote those resources elsewhere. Would people have preferred they went back to the "prefab" level interiors so Miranda could have a proper space suit?

The simple answer is DLC.

True, and I bet if they added DLCs that added a lot of character customization many people would buy them (myself included).  However, until that time I am very happy they chose not to sacrifice other aspects of the game when the characters already look really good, even if a few are a little unrealistic.

[Noktarn]

Svest wrote...

Noktarn wrote...

Svest wrote...

The simple answer to why the characters are less customizable is cost. There are nearly twice as many squad members in ME2 as there were in ME1. Adding many customizable suits for each of them would be incredibly expensive. The devs chose to make the characters distinctive and give up on a little realism so they could devote those resources elsewhere. Would people have preferred they went back to the "prefab" level interiors so Miranda could have a proper space suit?

The simple answer is DLC.

True, and I bet if they added DLCs that added a lot of character customization many people would buy them (myself included).  However, until that time I am very happy they chose not to sacrifice other aspects of the game when the characters already look really good, even if a few are a little unrealistic.

It's a pretty big sacrafice when your entire game revolves around looking pretty over cool (or practical).

If it was a sacrafice at all... you and the other guy can only assume that is why we don't have toggable helmet options... yet Garrus was already modeled with a helmet, as are everyone in space with the rebreathers.

The code and tech are there already.

Modifié par Noktarn, 01 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[Svest]

Noktarn wrote...
It's a pretty big sacrafice when your entire game revolves around looking pretty over cool (or practical).

It was a sacrafice at all... you and the other guy can only assume that is why we don't have toggable helmet options... yet Garrus was already modeled with a helmet, as are everyone in space with the rebreathers.

The code and tech are there already.

I was being a little more general than just having helmets you can toggle.  Different people have different preferences as to what they want customizable.  For you its helmets, which is fine.  For others its something else. 

Even then, if they slapped a helmet onto certain characters it would look completely out of place so they would require an entirely new suit.

its also a pretty big assumption on your part that just because somone had a helmet in a cutscene that all the work is done already.

[Sklibbles]

Would it not also be safe to assume that whatever toxins there are that require a rebreather mask can only be absorbed through the lungs? Or even when you're about to bone Tali, she explains how she loaded up on medications to prevent infection. Would it not be reasonable to say that Miranda and others could be doing the same?

Miranda isn't a warrior in the same way that Jacob and Garrus (and others) are, she's an Officer who specializes in biotics (with a dose of tech). Biotics certainly will not require armor in the same respect as a soldier or mercenary like Zaeed or Grunt do, because they aren't drawing most of the fire. They're hanging out manipulating the battlefield carefully instead of gunning everything down. Now I may be going out on a limb here, but having crazily heavy armor would severely restrict one's ability to get in tune with their body and use biotics to their full effect (similar to why we never see Jedi wearing armor except for a few exceptions, those being some of the generals of the Clone wars).

It also seems relevant to point that wearing armor seems to have a significant effect on a party member's ability to cast biotics (the exception being Shepard, for reasons unknown). The only biotic party member who wears a clear representation of armor is Jacob, who's biotics are more limited than those of Samara/Jack. Thane really doesn't have "armor" in the sense that the warrior-centric party members do, obviously because of his need for extreme flexibility and other traits an assassin of his nature would require.

Going back to Miranda, I hate to try to find an explanation for the catsuit because I just love it so much, but she *does* work for Cerberus and is pretty high up in their ranks. I don't think it's out of the question that she's subject to the result of expensive technologies in her clothing that have at least some level of ability to manifest kinetic/biotic barriers. Again, most of my claims are assumptions of justifications for aspects within the ME universe that Bioware didn't spend several more hours penning Codex entries for.

Any thoughts?

Modifié par Sklibbles, 01 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[Noktarn]

Sklibbles wrote...

Would it not also be safe to assume that whatever toxins there are that require a rebreather mask can only be absorbed through the lungs? Or even when you're about to bone Tali, she explains how she loaded up on medications to prevent infection. Would it not be reasonable to say that Miranda and others could be doing the same?

Miranda isn't a warrior in the same way that Jacob and Garrus (and others) are, she's an Officer who specializes in biotics (with a dose of tech). Biotics certainly will not require armor in the same respect as a soldier or mercenary like Zaeed or Grunt do, because they aren't drawing most of the fire. They're hanging out manipulating the battlefield carefully instead of gunning everything down. Now I may be going out on a limb here, but having crazily heavy armor would severely restrict one's ability to get in tune with their body and use biotics to their full effect (similar to why we never see Jedi wearing armor except for a few exceptions, those being some of the generals of the Clone wars).

It also seems relevant to point that wearing armor seems to have a significant effect on a party member's ability to cast biotics (the exception being Shepard, for reasons unknown). The only biotic party member who wears a clear representation of armor is Jacob, who's biotics are more limited than those of Samara/Jack. Thane really doesn't have "armor" in the sense that the warrior-centric party members do, obviously because of his need for extreme flexibility and other traits an assassin of his nature would require.

Going back to Miranda, I hate to try to find an explanation for the catsuit because I just love it so much, but she *does* work for Cerberus and is pretty high up in their ranks. I don't think it's out of the question that she's subject to the result of expensive technologies in her clothing that have at least some level of ability to manifest kinetic/biotic barriers. Again, most of my claims are assumptions of justifications for aspects within the ME universe that Bioware didn't spend several more hours penning Codex entries for.

Any thoughts?

Justifying it for the biotics and adepts is fine. They probably would be more effective in combat without a helm. It doesn't however, explain why Shepherd can toggle a helmet on/off to no detriment however, if playing the "magic" classes. Also spits in the face of ME-1 toggable helmet options.

Thane/Shep (Dep. on class)/Grunt/Zhaeed/Jacob/Garrus are more soldierly, take fire, and should have toggable helms or different armor options should be present. There's no good reason they can't enter the fray protected on the noggin.

There's no reason rebreathers can't also be toggable based on player choice. What if I, as a commander of the team, want them to wear them for added protection? I like to consider my teams lung safety, as well as looking badass. I love using Zhaeed in the "dirty air" maps due to that great rebreather/facemask he wears. Why can't I choose when to see it applied? I think he looks like a complete dork without some headgear.

[RavenholmeCP42]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

badmammajamma04 wrote...

Wait you're saying that when Miranda's in space, she wears the breather mask with her normal suit?? Wow that is pretty bad... Maybe they thought we'd be mesmerized by her fine buttocks?

yeah, just look at the mission when your inspecting the derelict reaper, a lot of times (especially at the end) your in space with zero gravity and you have your sealed hard suit while she and others (Thanes hoodie lol) have only a breathing apparatus and everything else is exposed. I mean I would marry Miranda in a heartbeat, but cmon....seriously?

In a game with such attention to detail I thought this was really detracting from the immersion of the experience.

You're inside the Reaper's mass effect field, which is still active. Same with the collector vessel. I imagine that's keeping atmo in. To be fair, when you do stuff to the reaper, you end up with a helmet on. But yeah, Miranda/Jacob et al not wearing hardsuits is idiotic

[Drakron]

Except Thane wears a helmet, same with Grunt and Garrus that DO have a helmet during those sections along with Sheppard that will put his helmet on.



I cannot speak for Jacob since I never taken him on such missions so that leaves Mordin (medic/scientist), Jack, Miranda, Samara (that are all Biotic characters) Legion (that is not going to need it for obvious reasons), Tali (helmet on at all times) and Zaeed (DLC and there are worst things on him that the lack of a helmet).



The only ones that stand out as could have a helmet is Zaeed and Mordin as their their clothing/armor mesh would not create issues, I would guess since Mordin is a Salarian it would require a unique helmet to be created for him alone as Zaeed ... again, there are worst things then that.

[Sklibbles]

Noktarn wrote...

Justifying it for the biotics and adepts is fine. They probably would be more effective in combat without a helm. It doesn't however, explain why Shepherd can toggle a helmet on/off to no detriment however, if playing the "magic" classes. Also spits in the face of ME-1 toggable helmet options.

Thane/Shep (Dep. on class)/Grunt/Zhaeed/Jacob/Garrus are more soldierly, take fire, and should have toggable helms or different armor options should be present. There's no good reason they can't enter the fray protected on the noggin.

There's no reason rebreathers can't also be toggable based on player choice. What if I, as a commander of the team, want them to wear them for added protection? I like to consider my teams lung safety, as well as looking badass. I love using Zhaeed in the "dirty air" maps due to that great rebreather/facemask he wears. Why can't I choose when to see it applied? I think he looks like a complete dork without some headgear.

I can see what you're saying and I would agree with you that a toggle on/off helmet idea would have been a good idea. I think the main thinking of Bioware was that a helmet severely limits your vision, and a rebreather helmet would probably limit your ability to hear as well (where is this enemy fire coming from? Or, even hearing it in the first place.) I can understand you wanting to wear a helmet for basic protection, which obviously Shepard can do. However, I feel that being able to control *every* aspect of your party members seems slightly unrealistic in a sense. These people are the best at what they do in the entire galaxy, so why would I force them to wear a helmet if they never do?

To me it's really about respecting what your squadmates fighting styles are and adapting them to your own, not demanding they do things your way. You're trying to earn their trust and loyalty, and I really doubt that forcing them to wear a helmet and additional armor when they clearly do not desire it (unless of course, they need it for environmental reasons like toxins, a vaccum, etc.) would be a good idea for a leader to make.

[sinosleep]

Khavos wrote...

The vacuum part doesn't bother me all that much.  I don't think you ever fight in a vacuum to begin with.

My gripe was more that she - and several others - decided it'd be cool to walk into mercenary bases in street clothes.  Just doesn't make a lot of sense no matter how much suspension of disbelief you give it.  That, of course, is really just stemming from the lack of customization complaint that's at the heart of all this.

Here's the thing, they aren't military, so they can wear whatever they want. I'm currently in the police academy, did you know that cops AREN'T required to wear bullet proof vests? Even though on any given day they may well wind up in a firefight? So what are cops wearing then? Cloth, knowing they can wind up in a firefight. Cloth.

Sure unlike cops these characters KNOW they're going into battle but it's still essentially the same thing. Most of the characters that aren't wearing some kind of combat gear are biotics any way, so that's always it's own explanation.

[RogueAI]

Those pervy 12 year old kids don't need an explanation on why Miranada is in a skin-tight outfit in combat.

And since this game seems to be targeted towards 12 year olds, I guess that isn't much of a surprise.

[RogueAI]

sinosleep wrote...

Khavos wrote...

The vacuum part doesn't bother me all that much.  I don't think you ever fight in a vacuum to begin with.

My gripe was more that she - and several others - decided it'd be cool to walk into mercenary bases in street clothes.  Just doesn't make a lot of sense no matter how much suspension of disbelief you give it.  That, of course, is really just stemming from the lack of customization complaint that's at the heart of all this.

Here's the thing, they aren't military, so they can wear whatever they want. I'm currently in the police academy, did you know that cops AREN'T required to wear bullet proof vests? Even though on any given day they may well wind up in a firefight? So what are cops wearing then? Cloth, knowing they can wind up in a firefight. Cloth.

Sure unlike cops these characters KNOW they're going into battle but it's still essentially the same thing. Most of the characters that aren't wearing some kind of combat gear are biotics any way, so that's always it's own explanation.

Yes, because cops go into Wars right? What you said doesn't make sense at all. If there is a hostage situation, the police don't send in a cop who has no body armor at all. They send in heavily armed swat. Patrolling and combat are different.

Really, you have to be a blind fanboy to think that the characters running around without armor makes any sense. You are apparently fighting the biggest threat to the galaxy, and Miranda can only muster enough energy to put on a skin tight outfit.

The alternet outfits should have been armor so it would make sense that they would be loyal and survive.

[AddoExAtrum]

Icematt12 wrote...

I'm now trying to think of a time when squad members are in a vaccuum environment. I can't think of one at the moment, but I do agree that certain members are not equipped to survive in such conditions.

Not sure if anyone posted to this yet but when you go to the Heretics base you are in a 0 g 0-low oxygen environment and legion even says so. The Geth have no need of such things.

I have noticed Jacob, Miranda, Morinth/Samara, and Mordin all use breather masks in this area. And if your curious about Morinth I would tell you but sorry I'm not into spoilers!

Modifié par AddoExAtrum, 02 février 2010 - 05:02 .

[TheKnave69]

Svest wrote...

The simple answer to why the characters are less customizable is cost. There are nearly twice as many squad members in ME2 as there were in ME1. Adding many customizable suits for each of them would be incredibly expensive. The devs chose to make the characters distinctive and give up on a little realism so they could devote those resources elsewhere. Would people have preferred they went back to the "prefab" level interiors so Miranda could have a proper space suit?

It doesn't matter how many there are in the squad.  It would be human M/F armor (Drell would use human), F Quarian, M Krogon, M Taurian and M Salarian.  So 6 basic models.

Modifié par TheKnave69, 02 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[freedman007]

Laterali wrote...

Man there's so many of these threads... Can we look at this objectively? This is a game where there are giant bugs running around with laser beams, and big lizards crawling through air vents shooting blue people with tentacles for a head. And "Big, stupid jellyfish" asking whether or not you feel fortunate that the heat sink is spent or not... And you're here saying it's not realistic cause they aren't wearing armor while fighting aliens that look like they have a butt where their head should be...

My advice, relax. There are far greater worries in this life than how BioWare is going to explain how their shields work... This is a piece of fiction after all, things don't have to fit neatly in our world of logic. Otherwise instead of playing Mass Effect 2, we'd be playing Have You Filed Those TPS Reports 7....

ok yea i get it, its fiction, but just because somthing is fiction doesn't  justify a lack of practical creativity (and i mean that in this aspect of the game alone). so by just accepting whatever happens in the game no matter how ridiculous or impractical it may seem ,we should also accept as a possibilty that sheppard can fart lasers out of his arse to vanquish his enemys. all things are possible in fiction right? in the context of real life its all meaningless, but in the context off mass effect its kind of silly thats all i'm sayin' but i do see your point  

Modifié par freedman007, 02 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[sinosleep]

RogueAI wrote...

Yes, because cops go into Wars right? What you said doesn't make sense at all. If there is a hostage situation, the police don't send in a cop who has no body armor at all. They send in heavily armed swat. Patrolling and combat are different.

Really, you have to be a blind fanboy to think that the characters running around without armor makes any sense. You are apparently fighting the biggest threat to the galaxy, and Miranda can only muster enough energy to put on a skin tight outfit.

The alternet outfits should have been armor so it would make sense that they would be loyal and survive.

Actually Mr. Knowitall, hostage negotiators regularly wear minimal body armor, being as it's threatening to the hostage taker they are negotiating with. As I said, they aren't military, they aren't police, they can wear whatever the hell they damned well please.

TheKnave69 wrote...


It doesn't matter how many there
are in the squad.  It would be human M/F armor (Drell would use human),
F Quarian, M Krogon, M Taurian and M Salarian.  So 6 basic
models.

If it comes at the expense of individuality they can keep their stupid armor. In Dragon Age Origins Morigan had a different body model than all the other females in the game while she had on her default robes, but if you threw any other kind of robes on her she magically became the same boring model that every other female in the game is.

Miranda and Jack have two distinct body types, if losing out on armor swapping made that possible so be it. I friggen hate when EVERYONE in the the galaxy has the exact same body type and 1/8 of them share the same face. It's goddamned retarded.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 février 2010 - 06:34 .

[Offkorn]

musicaleCA wrote...

As for breather masks, it makes sense from a cinematographic point of view. Facial expressions are huge cues for us humans during conversation. They give whats being said more impact.

Which is why the DLC armor has unremovable helmets, and helmets stay on in conversation... right.

sinosleep wrote...

Miranda and Jack have two distinct body types, if losing out on armor swapping made that possible so be it.

How would giving the existing NPCs an armor option to match their casual option (just like Shepard has) in any way affect their unique body types?

Answer: It wouldn't, because it's still unique.

Modifié par Offkorn, 02 février 2010 - 07:04 .

[LCruven]

Wear the pink polka dot suit with a clown nose or your off my team



its a game people lighten the hell up

[sinosleep]

Offkorn wrote...

How would giving the existing NPCs an armor option to match their casual option (just like Shepard has) in any way affect their unique body types?

Answer: It wouldn't, because it's still unique.

I was replying to a very specific post that mentione m/f armor, not character specific armor. It's why I SPECIFICALLY brought up another bioware game in which they made that decision at the cost of individuality.

Morigan in her default robes has an individual body type.

Morigan in anything else and what they did was replace her individual body, with the same boring garbage cookie cutter piece of **** they used on every other female in the game and simply put her head on top of it because they couldn't be bothered with modelling every last piece of armor in the game to her indivudal body type.

Armor at the cost of individuality.

Modifié par sinosleep, 02 février 2010 - 07:17 .

[Ahglock]

freedman007 wrote...

Laterali wrote...

Man there's so many of these threads... Can we look at this objectively? This is a game where there are giant bugs running around with laser beams, and big lizards crawling through air vents shooting blue people with tentacles for a head. And "Big, stupid jellyfish" asking whether or not you feel fortunate that the heat sink is spent or not... And you're here saying it's not realistic cause they aren't wearing armor while fighting aliens that look like they have a butt where their head should be...

My advice, relax. There are far greater worries in this life than how BioWare is going to explain how their shields work... This is a piece of fiction after all, things don't have to fit neatly in our world of logic. Otherwise instead of playing Mass Effect 2, we'd be playing Have You Filed Those TPS Reports 7....

ok yea i get it, its fiction, but just because somthing is fiction doesn't  justify a lack of practical creativity (and i mean that in this aspect of the game alone). so by just accepting whatever happens in the game no matter how ridiculous or impractical it may seem ,we should also accept as a possibilty that sheppard can fart lasers out of his arse to vanquish his enemys. all things are possible in fiction right? in the context of real life its all meaningless, but in the context off mass effect its kind of silly thats all i'm sayin' but i do see your point  

ME1 was relatively hard sci-fi, so its a game didn't fly as a bad explanation and everyone who had a brain and was going to get shot at wore armor of some kind.  ME2 decided to ****** on the lore for the cool effect.  Is this a huge issue, not really.  But it is something that would have been easy to fix and it ws dumb of them mot to. 

Oh wait unless they basically already did it and they only need to polish it up  abit and now you get to pay for what should of been in the game.  I really hate what DLC has become.  When DLC was hey its been a year and we've added some new missions and scenarios to extend the life of our game it was cool.  Now its here is the stuff we could of and should of put in the game in the first place but we delayed it so we could gouge you for more money.