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ME2: Threadbare Plot and Sickening Story Elements


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#1
Ozymandias23

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I’ve just finished my first and what will be my only play though of Mass Effect 2 and I thought I’d share some thoughts. Be warned, this is a long one!

I play games for entertainment, for enjoyment.  Mass Effect 1 was a game I returned to time and time again for the sheer pleasure of playing it. In spite of its flaws, it was a lot of fun, had some fantastic characters, an uplifting story that was developed throughout the game and an outstanding final mission. Several parts always stood out for me. The speech the council gives as shepard is made a Spectre. Shepard’s speech to the crew as she takes control of the Normandy. The reveal on Virmire as Shepard finally has the chance to speak with Sovereign. Ilos, Vigil and fighting our way back to the Citadel for the race through the maintenance ducts to reach Saren in time.

The story was exceptional in my opinion. Each main mission introduced another key part of the plot, another clue revealing Saren’s motivations and driving the story forward. The story rose to a crescendo as Shepard and her
team mates went though the Mu Relay, fought their way through Ilos, discovered Vigil and risked everything to return to the Citadel for the final confrontation with Saren, his Geth and Sovereign. I remember the first time I
completed Mass Effect 1, sitting with tears in my eyes as the human fleet saved the destiny ascension.

Mass Effect 1 was not perfect but it had engaging, charismatic characters and an uplifting story that brought me back to it time and time again. From my perspective it was a game with a lot of class and rightly deserved the title of masterpiece in spite of its flaws.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for Mass Effect 2. I found it crass, tasteless and deeply unpleasant. Bioware seems to have forced every nasty thing they could think of into Mass Effect 2 and in doing so utterly destroyed the feel of the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect 2 is not a sequel to Mass Effect 1. It is a spin off. The moments where I actually felt I was playing Mass Effect were all too brief.

The ‘story’ of Mass Effect 2 was unbelievably poor and I find it impossible to believe the same person wrote both games.

There seemed to be no narrative structure to the game. The plot, such as it was, was utterly contrived, unconvincing and frankly embarrassingly bad in places.  I have never played a Bioware game that had such a weak, threadbare story, such stilted dialogue or borrowed so heavily from other sources such as Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Terminator etc. The final battle was absurd. I won’t spoil it for anyone who hasn’t played the entire game; all I will say is that a cameo from Governor Schwarzenegger would not have been out of place. It was ridiculous and utterly inferior to the end game of Mass Effect 1 in every possible way.

Having Shepard die, be rebuilt and be upgraded throughout the game with more and more synthetic parts was pointless and only served as a flimsy attempt to force the player to accept working with Cerberus. It didn’t work on any level in my opinion. The two year gap was a transparent excuse to off load the original squad mates whose personalities did not fit into the type of game Bioware wanted to make. This might have worked better if they had been replaced by characters with equal charisma. They were not, in my opinion, with the only exception being Legion and EDI.

Once Shepard was alive again and the Collectors had been identified as the enemy the ‘plot’ then took on the appearance of a grocery list. Gather specialists, do loyalty missions, gather minerals to upgrade the Normandy and then do the final mission. Personally I found it slow moving and monotonous and frankly I was bored. There were too many new squad mates and it made it difficult to feel any attachment to any of them, even if I had found their personalities appealing, which I didn’t. And whilst the new Normandy was beautiful, I had the overwhelming urge to off load the crew and fumigate the ship.

Though out this period of the game, there was little or no story progression.  The conversations with the squad mates seemed designed to railroad the player into embarking on a new romance. After one conversation with Jacob the flirting and innuendo began, and I could find no dialogue option that simply said I’m not interested. Shepard’s lines were also delivered in a forced flirty tone over which the player was given no control, not one option for her to speak in a normal tone of voice.  As for the crew, even the NPCs, speak to them at all and you had to listen to crass, lewd, suggestive comments. Wander though the bar on Illium and it was the same, crass, tasteless remarks and of course sexual innuendo. Perhaps that is titillating if you’re 15, however as an adult with
a life it became incredibly tedious incredibly quickly. Mass Effect 1 didn’t need to resort to this sort of thing to garner sales.

I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

Ultimately I loved Mass Effect 1 and I want to genuinely thank Bioware for producing such a fantastic game that gave me many hours of enjoyment.  As for Mass Effect 2, it has been a disappointment on almost every level.  Its tone, the story quality, the squad mates, all vastly inferior to Mass Effect 1 in my opinion. I’m afraid it has killed this IP for me and I truly regret my decision to purchase it.

Modifié par Ozymandias23, 01 février 2010 - 08:42 .


#2
Scire The Warden

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too bad for you that you didn't get to experience one of the best games ever IMO.

Also, half your rant seems to be about having the game be politically correct, which is a little strange, because if you've ever been anywhere in the world you would know that most places in the world aren't all happy and shiny.

Modifié par Scire The Warden, 01 février 2010 - 08:38 .


#3
MrGOH

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TL;DR. GAFB.

#4
Nautica773

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There is no story for Mass Effect 2. I believe there's 3 actual plot moments, everything else is extraneous. Then again, ME2 is the middle of a trilogy which is always harder to do without giving the feeling that you're just kicking time until the finale shows up.

They tried to overcome this with deeper character story lines, almost in the vein of Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back. Sadly, since most of the characters are new, you don't have any real development (Tali and Garrus grew rather nicely though) so that sort of fell short.

However, I have to disagree with you on ME2's squadmates. Almost every single one of them is a vast improvement over the 2 dimensional characters of Mass Effect.

#5
Litos456

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read only a little bit, I get your point.

Your opinion is yours, but it isnt that bad. Just different, more accepted by a larger scale community.

They got another game to fix all this up.

#6
Hokochu

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I couldn't finish reading the OP. Anyway to correct one important fact, no, they had a new lead writer for ME2 because the original is working on ToR. This time around the story was character driven as opposed to story driven and although the plot was not as solid as the first, in return I felt more connected to the characters than I did in the first installment.

#7
aimlessgun

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I agree with some of the bad things. I had to stop talking to Jacob entirely because of the forced flirting. The story had a lot of holes. Dialogue...probably as a whole a bit worse than ME1.



The dark stuff I had no issue with. Bad things happen. It's a rough galaxy. I'm sorry you were turned off by it, no helping that really.



I think you are undervaluing a lot of the good parts though. If you didn't care about vastly superior combat, then you're going to like this game less. But that doesn't make the combat any less of an accomplishment.

#8
Wugger

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Well, you have made some interesting points here, and I am inclined to agree with some, though not as strongly.



I felt the plot was much weaker this time around, however, I felt the characters were much deeper than before (excluding Grunt) and found them easy to empathise with. Though the plot was weak, the writing dialogue-wise was even better, at times witty and at times heart-wrenching.



I did take issue with the over-sexified Morntndnnrftthh (The asari Justicar's daughter), but other than that I enjoyed the more dark sci-fi world. Rape and child abuse are unspeakable crimes, but I think they were approched maturely and I personally did not find it offensive, though it made the descion to shoot Jacob's dad and blow up the facility pretty easy.



I guess you just need to approch mass effect 2 with the right mindset, but maybe this just isn't the game for you?




#9
JRCHOharry

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at least he was nice enough to register his game to post here.

#10
Nautica773

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Ozymandias23 wrote...
In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.


I also wanted to comment quickly on this.
I would have to say, if you actually felt sickened by these moments, then they were expertly crafted. They were suppose to be horrific moments, situations meant to invoke feelings of disgust in the player. Frankly, I felt they were a little weak myself, but it seems that for some people they were a success. 
If you can't explore these issues in art, where can you explore them? You say they have no purpose in entertainment whereas I believe they are the sole reason for entertainment. Otherwise, you get soulless media with no real intrinsic value.

#11
Ozymandias23

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I'm afraid I view it slightly differently. The story was weak, the dialogue cringe worthy in numerous places so 'expertly crafted' is not a phrase I would associate with the 'story' of ME2. There is of course another option which you're overlooking. If you have a friend or family member who has been assaulted the reality of that juxtaposed against Bioware's flimsy attempt to force that kind of content into a game for the sole purpose of trying to make it 'dark and edgy' could also result in people feeling sickened.

#12
Anleson

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Ozymandias23 wrote...
I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.


Perhaps the chief purpose of entertainment (or 'art' for that matter) is to make the viewer or participant feel something. If all entertainment only made people feel 'good' then it would be vapid. It has been suggested that the underlying theme in all great works in human history is "man's inhumanity to man". If parts of Mass Effect 2 depicting this inhumanity towards others made you feel sick and disturbed then the writing has conveyed exactly what it was intended to convey.

#13
AtreiyaN7

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Your job, lest you forget, is to put together a TEAM to stop the Collectors. That is the basic plot - to gather the best people, make them loyal and finally put a stop to the Collectors (Reapers, really, since the Collectors are their puppets) plans. Some people may not like that approach, but I did. The characters were deeper, and their individual stories were pretty good. I was more connected to the characters in ME2 than the ones in ME1 for the most part, and Garrus and Tali have certainly developed nicely. As for the level of darkness...life isn't filled with puppies and rainbows. Everything was handled maturely, and I liked what they did. It's art - you're entitled not to like it or how they deal with unpleasant, painful subject matter, but at the same time you don't have a right to try to dictate what level of darkness is "appropriate."

#14
Barhador

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In my opinion Mass Effect 2 is a benchmark for interactive story-telling. Coupled with great soundtracks and voice acting, ME2 gives the most addictive atmosphere in ANY game I've played in the last couple of years.

#15
gr00grams

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It was TL:DR, but all I can say is that ME1's story is vastly, and I mean vastly superior.

The convo's were great, but the overall main story was not on the scale of the first.
Other things were better, etc, but just talking pure story, no it definitely does not live up to the first, sorry Bioware.

This is sans romances, as in both they are 'okay' nothing special.
Just the main plot.

The events and revelations on Ilos in ME1 alone, just the dialogue with the prothean VI trump all of ME2's main plot.

Modifié par gr00grams, 01 février 2010 - 09:06 .


#16
TheKnave69

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I'm sure it will be looked at as Empire Strikes Back (and I'm sure this comparison has been made repeatedly). When released SW:ESB wasn't very well received, but after the trilogy was complete, it was regarded as one of the best in the series. Will this be considered one of the best in the series, probably not, but once the final ME is released, perhaps the story elements will be put into context and you'll see piece as part of a completed whole, rather than as a part.



Just my $.02

#17
Zombie Kronn

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It's interesting that you had such strong reactions to ME2, concerning the Asari being strippers etc on Omega, you have to remember that Omega is like the center of crime and villany in the Terminus systems, this isn't the Citadel, and from what i remember, they even had Asari dancing in the clubs there too, complaining about dark, or sexual content is asinine, sexual content is everywhere, just look at TV commercials, we're surrounded by it.



As has been said previously, the situation of the females on Jacobs mission i supposed to evoke the feeling of revulsion, likewise with Jacks mission, she was raised and exposed to horrific conditions which made her the crazy, hate filled woman she is today.



Bottom line, you're not in the nice, safe area of space anymore, this is a dangerous, seedy place to be, and you're going to see the darker side of life.

#18
mscotch

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I disagree. The fact the game includes some darker elements make it the Mass Effect universe feel more real and immersive. The game's rated Mature and as such the people who play it should not be surprised that certain people are capable of horrific acts. Had they not included some of the darker missions, I think I would feel less emotionally involved in the game.

I find Mass Effect 2 was a huge improvement over Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay and the actual missions. I also enjoyed the story immensely. It was cool being able to visit the Quarian Flotilla and the Krogan homeworld. I found all the characters were extremely well done and I like the direction they took with the Geth.

I hope they relelase lots of DLC up until Mass Effect 3 comes.out

Modifié par mscotch, 01 février 2010 - 09:13 .


#19
Nautica773

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Ozymandias23 wrote...

I'm afraid I view it slightly differently. The story was weak, the dialogue cringe worthy in numerous places so 'expertly crafted' is not a phrase I would associate with the 'story' of ME2. There is of course another option which you're overlooking. If you have a friend or family member who has been assaulted the reality of that juxtaposed against Bioware's flimsy attempt to force that kind of content into a game for the sole purpose of trying to make it 'dark and edgy' could also result in people feeling sickened.

I agree, the story was weak.
The dialogue was cringe worthy in some areas but well written in others. That's because there are numerous writers and varied time spent developing different areas. One bad instance of dialogue does not 'terribly written' make. 
As for your personal interaction with assault, I don't know what you're suggesting. Are you saying that such things should never be explored? They should never be written about? Your complaint that it is sickening now seems that it wasn't accurate enough, not that the situations themselves were badly told. Which suggests that every instance of abuse is the same.
I think you need to be a little more clear with your complaints.

Modifié par Nautica773, 01 février 2010 - 09:15 .


#20
magnuskn

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I would remind you that the Asari are in effect sexless. They only *appear* to be females. I found the role of them and other women in the game to be refreshingly non-sexist, in the way that a ton of the competent and interesting characters in the game are women or ( in the many cases of Asari ) appear to be ones.



As for the pole dancing, etc., the Asari know how their appearance affects other races and in their maiden years look for adventure.



And in regards to the other things which you did dislike, i.e. Jacobs and Jacks missions, BioWare very obviously designed them so that the player should be revolted by what happened to those women and kids. I found myself often horrified by the things happening, but as a player I could *do* something about them.

#21
Chained_Creator

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*snip because I really don't have anything to say about the plot other than "I disagree most strongly and will not speak to you about it because it will inveitably result in Bad Things."*

--

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

You felt something! Congratulations, you have experienced something in a game that happens in real life. I generally consider it a good thing that people feel sickened and disturbed by regarding people of any sex as "playthings". Promotes happy gender relations!

Ozymandias23 wrote...
In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

Once again, the idea is for you to feel something about the game. Whether what you feel is positive or negative is up to you. That you reacted negatively is a positive in my opinion. Promoting happy gender relations is one thing I am never too busy to do.

Ozymandias23 wrote...
This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

It also shows what happens when you establish projects without enough oversight. Military projects going wrong and ending up with millions wasted, scientific research projects set up with the best intentions that end up with people going mad for various reasons and millions wasted (or stolen), or even worse! Furthermore, some of the children were sold by their familis to the (legitimate to rogue) Cerberus operation. Sold! Children! An indication of just 'how far' humanity has really come, huh? Nevertheless, the game parallels real life in our world as it is today. Nasty, violent, deadly, and unpredictable. I think it did that rather well. +1, BioWare.

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

I think not, once again, opinions shining through. This is true realisim. Life is not all happy and sparkles. In fact, I would go so far to say as most of life is not happy and sparkles. (Yay, more opinion!)

Ozymandias23 wrote...
Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

A perfect example of how humanity is still struggling with its own internal problems even centuries into the future! Progressions is slow among our species. As Samara said, "Your species is the most individualistic I have ever seen." (Paraphrased, I don't remember the exact quote.)

Ozymandias23 wrote...
Ultimately I loved Mass Effect 1 and I want to genuinely thank Bioware for producing such a fantastic game that gave me many hours of enjoyment.  As for Mass Effect 2, it has been a disappointment on almost every level.  Its tone, the story quality, the squad mates, all vastly inferior to Mass Effect 1 in my opinion. I’m afraid it has killed this IP for me and I truly regret my decision to purchase it.

Sorry to hear that, I loved it. Would recommend to anyone that they try it, and that it most likely deserves a spot on the shelf.

Modifié par Chained_Creator, 01 février 2010 - 09:16 .


#22
JGHutch

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Troll, but smart troll thats what you are OP sorry to say, you can try to hide it behind your guise, but your still trolling, nuff said. How can I tell your a troll? You mentioned Nef and her mentioning liking another girl and you where most likely one of the people posting about no f/f and m/m romances, so cry me a river and go play something else! kkthxbai! Image IPB

Modifié par JGHutch, 01 février 2010 - 09:18 .


#23
Ozymandias23

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@JGHutch - don't even start with that nonsense. If you've nothing to contribute there are plenty other threads that might be more to your liking.


#24
GHOST OF FRUITY

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Some good points and some i'd agree with. But I personally liked the fact that nothing ever felt 'safe' in ME2. The same goes with the characters - all were so different and varied in their motivations and personality. It's the sign of a well written character if they divide opinion. Jack I hate with a passion - really hate in fact! But to get that kind of response means that there is something to her as a character.

The story? Well I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's never easy to tell the second part of a three part story, and I felt Bioware did very well. It has it's links to the story of ME1 and sets things up nicely for ME3. It's tough for them in that so much has yet to be revealed in terms of the story when ME3 appears, so much of ME2 will put up more questions than answers.

I think some are forgetting that ME2 is a trilogy and the main crux of the story is yet to be told. We'll probably only be able to really guage how good ME2 is as a story once people have played ME3 and know how things end.

Modifié par GHOST OF FRUITY, 01 février 2010 - 09:24 .


#25
TuringPoint

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The OP didn't read any of the books for the Mass Effect universe, I take it. All these terrible elements were addressed in those books.



Frankly, I found Mass Effect 1 a little more disney than necessary, a little unbelievable. Mass Effect 2 is a story you have to put some thought into, not that ME1 wasn't - but you have to put thought into what's going on in Mass Effect 2 in order for it to work. If you're not willing to do some of the work, then I guess, it's a pretty flimsy example of storytelling. I've always enjoyed a challenge, personally.