465 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamShatner]

Ozymandias you write excellent posts. I hope you ignore all the clowns who complain can't be bothered to read them fully.

[Forest03]

I'm just going to skip the last 8 pages and say that I agree -partially- with the topic.

Bioware has free reign with this, and yes, sometimes creative liberties will offend one group or another. That said, I don't have any serious issues with the content in this game, be it in the immersion into dark themes, or the implied background horror stories.

I do feel that ME2's plot line is indeed shallow. However, I am aware that this game, as I stated on another thread, is a narrative bridge. I don't let that detract from what is otherwise very engaging gameplay and wonderfully designed virtual environments. Yes, I was very disappointed with the "grocery list" recruitment, the seemingly endless quests to gain loyalty, and the lack of any true player-influenced interaction within the plot. The only plot elements whose outcomes have great ramifications that could carry over into ME3 are Legion's mission (rewriting or destruction of the Geth) and the status of the Collector base (keeping it intact or destroying it).

A plot line no deeper than male Shepard's stubble? Yes. True implementation of Renegade and Paragon actions that influence the narrative's conclusion? Not really. Still a very immersive and spectacular game? Yes.

Re: NWN. Never even bothered to finish beyond the first city. Man, now THAT was boring regurgitated tripe '

BG1 and BG2 FTW! (And Icewind Dale was pretty good, too).

Modifié par Forest03, 06 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[AngryTigerP]

Llandaryn wrote...

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

It's a young girl, afraid and alone, questioning her sexuality. Nowhere does it suggest that homophobia has been wiped out in 2183.

Actually, I always got the impression that her concern was combination of homosexuality and, more critically, inter-species attraction.

[Melisenta]

Rilke21 wrote...
I share the OP`s concearns about the sexual politics in the game. A male paragon Shepard is offered sex twice within 2 minutes of stepping foot on Illium. Is this really necessary? It does nothing to add to the story, and it actually takes away from any sense of realism. On a side note, isn't it interesting that BioWare games are starting to include lesbian love interests, but male Shepard is about as hetero as you can get? (Or IS he...Susanna Patchouli, anyone?)

You're all concerned about how ME2 is all about sex, asari strippers etc. Yet the OP somehow ignores the Consort and those same asari dancers in ME1, that were mentioned numerous times in this thread already.

PS. And by the way, I (mind I'm a woman) find these asari beatiful. I can go to Afterlife and watch them dance for minutes. And never I felt offended in any way.

Modifié par Melisenta, 06 février 2010 - 01:33 .

[Sabre120]

Cool story bro...wait no, this sucks

[Sabre120]

Also if you don't like the content don't play, if you heard from the writers themselves that they thought they went too far (Which IMO they didn't the portrayal or the excessively violent Terminus Systems was good) then you should be prepared for the worst

[Grunt420]

i agree with everything JGHutch said

[OrionUnas]

Chained_Creator wrote...

*snip because I really don't have anything to say about the plot other than "I disagree most strongly and will not speak to you about it because it will inveitably result in Bad Things."*

--

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

You felt something! Congratulations, you have experienced something in a game that happens in real life. I generally consider it a good thing that people feel sickened and disturbed by regarding people of any sex as "playthings". Promotes happy gender relations!

Ozymandias23 wrote...
In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

Once again, the idea is for you to feel something about the game. Whether what you feel is positive or negative is up to you. That you reacted negatively is a positive in my opinion. Promoting happy gender relations is one thing I am never too busy to do.

Ozymandias23 wrote...
This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

It also shows what happens when you establish projects without enough oversight. Military projects going wrong and ending up with millions wasted, scientific research projects set up with the best intentions that end up with people going mad for various reasons and millions wasted (or stolen), or even worse! Furthermore, some of the children were sold by their familis to the (legitimate to rogue) Cerberus operation. Sold! Children! An indication of just 'how far' humanity has really come, huh? Nevertheless, the game parallels real life in our world as it is today. Nasty, violent, deadly, and unpredictable. I think it did that rather well. +1, BioWare.

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

I think not, once again, opinions shining through. This is true realisim. Life is not all happy and sparkles. In fact, I would go so far to say as most of life is not happy and sparkles. (Yay, more opinion!)

Ozymandias23 wrote...
Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

A perfect example of how humanity is still struggling with its own internal problems even centuries into the future! Progressions is slow among our species. As Samara said, "Your species is the most individualistic I have ever seen." (Paraphrased, I don't remember the exact quote.)

Ozymandias23 wrote...
Ultimately I loved Mass Effect 1 and I want to genuinely thank Bioware for producing such a fantastic game that gave me many hours of enjoyment.  As for Mass Effect 2, it has been a disappointment on almost every level.  Its tone, the story quality, the squad mates, all vastly inferior to Mass Effect 1 in my opinion. I’m afraid it has killed this IP for me and I truly regret my decision to purchase it.

Sorry to hear that, I loved it. Would recommend to anyone that they try it, and that it most likely deserves a spot on the shelf.

I believe her line was, "You're species is the most idealistic I've ever seen.  I like it.  You have three people in a room, and there are six oppionions."

It was something to do to that affect... and I don't remember fully if she said "I like it," or the wording in that point of the conversation, but she does say she likes humanity.

[Rilke21]

Melisenta wrote...

PS. And by the way, I (mind I'm a woman) find these asari beatiful. I can go to Afterlife and watch them dance for minutes. And never I felt offended in any way.

Mel, I didn't mind the dancers at all, and I agree that they're beautiful. My point was more that the sexuality in Mass Effect wasn't gratuitous. It added to the story and to the experience in general. In Mass Effect 2, there are a number of moments when it's just thrown at you for no reason. Shepard is no Geralt, and probably shouldn't try to be.

[Turin_4]

The asari as strippers angle in the game didn't mean women were objectified. First of all, they're dancers in the game, just to quibble. Second, the codex entries on asari, their lifespans, and their activities in the galaxy explain this: asari will be disproportionately represented in 'adventurous' jobs at that stage in their lives because they're still just crazy teenagers, really, despite being quite old by human standards.



Jacob's loyalty mission induced loathing in me, but it was supposed to.



The final reaper was menacing to me, not ridiculous-I really think you took this impression from it because you were so antagonistic towards the game by this point.

[Camo5050]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

As I said

"Mass Effect 2 is a game that has little or no story, what little plot there is, is significantly inferior to the first game in my opinion. Bioware's goal seems to have been to attract a certain type of audience to this game and from what I can see they have callously used certain historical events for the sole reason of creating a 'dark and edgy' feel. I find that inappropriate and consequently posted my thoughts in this forum."

I suppose I'm losing something in translation of my opinions as written in contrast to your original post.  I'm not taking issue with your opinion that you find the story weak and unenjoyable.  It seems fairly evident that you do indeed find the story telling in the second title less engaging and a big disappointment.  The first game was a classically romantic hero's journey.  The second, is not.

What I'm taking issue with is the personal moral offence you convey in implying that much of the content was delivered in a gratuitously immoral fashion, with no other purpose than to titillate the base senses of it's audience.
And, I also take issue with your subtle innuendo that those that may enjoy the second game are themselves, gratuitously immoral.  In short, it seems that there's an underlying tone in your posts that those at Bioware that made the game are bad people and that the game is targeted at those of low moral character.

There is a context to much of the game's content.  Even if you don't observe it as such.  I'd like to think that I'm not just picking shapes out of clouds here and that the dark and uncomfortable themes in the second game are indeed there for a purpose, and not as an advocation.  I can understand that you may be personally morally offended by some of what you see, but what I've been trying to reiterate is that it is a work of adventure fiction.  It's not high-art.  It's pulp story telling; it's not a cultural cornerstone. It's a distraction, not a code of conduct.

I understand that it diverges quite darkly from the classical romantic themes of the first game.  And, I understand that you're disappointed that it's not following the same formula.  However, I also think that it's somewhat unkind to levy a hyperbole of the second game being built around gratuitously base themes, as well as the implication that if someone isn't as offended as you are, then it's a reflection of a morally stunted personality.  If it's not your intent to imply such a tone, then I apologize for reading that sense of self-superiority into it.  However, your unhappiness does seem to come from a place of personal anger rather than an objective disatisfaction of thematic shift.

Thanks.

Modifié par Camo5050, 06 février 2010 - 03:34 .

[Zahxia]

To the OP: I like debate and I was drawn to your side of the argument when you critiqued the pacing of ME2s story which I also thought left a lot to be desired. The collectors were really just something pulled out of someones behind and weren't exactly hounding you through the game as Saren and the Geth were in ME1. The Collector's were completely overshadowed by your party. Kidnapping the crew and threatening to leave me with a less than perfect ending is a pathetic way to get me to care about the final confrontation. ME2s structure is a great way to construct a game by letting us piece everything together and have actions within the middle of the game affect the outcome but the Collector's needed a lot of work. How am I supposed to care about the outcome of a bunch of drones? There was no betrayal element like Saren to give the Collector's a face.

Your argument fell appart the moment you compared Jacob's loyalty mission to the final solution. Being offended about how the women were treated is great since Bioware were fishing to make you upset. But linking camps to the final solution? That's an incredible threadbare argument. (Do-hoh-hoh!) The meaning of the entire mission was pretty much delivered on a silver platter for the player in the conversation with Jacob's father. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  You could pull any number of themes from the mission I mean off the top of my head: classism or Economic Recession. But using the WW2 Germany (since the four letter word starting with N and ending in I is censored) card on the internet? Just wow.

And having the audacity to claim this was the exact intention of Bioware and that according to an E3 interview Bioware was out for controversy for the sake of profit when you're willing to get on the soap box and cry "****'s, sexists and child abusers" just to get people to pay attention to your post. Even better.

All in all a great post I laughed. I cried. I raged. I  you Ozy.

Modifié par Zahxia, 06 février 2010 - 03:34 .

[Homebound]

Anleson wrote...

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

Perhaps the chief purpose of entertainment (or 'art' for that matter) is to make the viewer or participant feel something. If all entertainment only made people feel 'good' then it would be vapid. It has been suggested that the underlying theme in all great works in human history is "man's inhumanity to man". If parts of Mass Effect 2 depicting this inhumanity towards others made you feel sick and disturbed then the writing has conveyed exactly what it was intended to convey.

Emotional Response

+1 Bioware

[Kalfear]

Just_mike wrote...

Anleson wrote...

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

Perhaps the chief purpose of entertainment (or 'art' for that matter) is to make the viewer or participant feel something. If all entertainment only made people feel 'good' then it would be vapid. It has been suggested that the underlying theme in all great works in human history is "man's inhumanity to man". If parts of Mass Effect 2 depicting this inhumanity towards others made you feel sick and disturbed then the writing has conveyed exactly what it was intended to convey.

Emotional Response

+1 Bioware

Lack of emotional connection in Mass Effect 2

+100000000 to Bioware

[Snowraptor]

Well USUALLY, people that watch too many spoilers dont have a good experience with the game. Im guessing you watched too many spoilers

[Nautica773]

You know what my problem with the Asari is?

They make no sense. There's no reason for them to be on the council. What do they bring to the table? The Salarians are noted for being the most intelligent and most scientific. The Turians are the most militaristic and provide the most troops to defend Council space.

The Asari? Blue, female wizards from what I can tell. They have no military of any note, they have no interest in information gathering and it seems they run their sections of space through endless debates.

It seems, without their galactic knockers, the Asari would be lucky to even have an Embassy on the Citadel. They seem more interested in populating bars and strip clubs then contributing in any real fashion to galactic society. Supposedly they represent 'Diplomacy' yet all the big decisions are made through force (Salarians with the Krogan during the Rachni wars, the Turians and Salarians with the Genophage). It seems they represent more 'empty' diplomacy and are just the public face of Council law.

I would like to see the space women race have some real teeth to back them up.

[Rilke21]

Camo, I think it's less a question of moral upityness and more a question of taste. I doubt that BioWare is full of terrible people who develope games for degenerates. But they did fill Mass Effect 2 with a lot of garbage that took away from the story. I'm the last person who would argue against dark, sexual content in games, but that doesn't mean I like it thrown at me for the sake of faux "edginess."

[HeyUder]

I'm sick and tired of being "politically correct". The OP is being especially ridiculous... you're offended that a race that doesn't actually exist (asari) spends their time dancing in a nightclub in what is already mentioned as the galaxy's den of thieves (Omega)? ******.

[Camo5050]

Rilke21 wrote...

Camo, I think it's less a question of moral upityness and more a question of taste. I doubt that BioWare is full of terrible people who develope games for degenerates. But they did fill Mass Effect 2 with a lot of garbage that took away from the story. I'm the last person who would argue against dark, sexual content in games, but that doesn't mean I like it thrown at me for the sake of faux "edginess."

I agree.  I don't typically like contrived and ham-handed storytelling either.  I also don't like being firehosed with unnecessary thematic displays in order to drive a point home.  And, I most certainly share your doubt that Bioware is full of moral degenerates who just made a game with these dark themes "just cuz it'll sell".  However, objectively I do see a purpose to much of the content in relation to an intended context when I pull back and look at what they were trying to convey.

Granted, they're video game story writers.  This isn't Dostoevsky, Tolkien, or even (dare I say it?) Rowling.  If the writers were that good at storytelling, they wouldn't be working at Bioware.  It can seem artless in comparison, but they do make an attempt, and it's not just a vulgar and gratuitous attempt in my opinion.  It all seems contextual, even if controversial.  It may be clumsy, but it's not corruptive.

Modifié par Camo5050, 06 février 2010 - 04:12 .

[flatlander five]

Ozymandias23 wrote...


I’ve just finished my first and what will be my only play though of Mass Effect 2 and I thought I’d share some thoughts. Be warned, this is a long one!

I play games for entertainment, for enjoyment.  Mass Effect 1 was a game I returned to time and time again for the sheer pleasure of playing it. In spite of its flaws, it was a lot of fun, had some fantastic characters, an uplifting story that was developed throughout the game and an outstanding final mission. Several parts always stood out for me. The speech the council gives as shepard is made a Spectre. Shepard’s speech to the crew as she takes control of the Normandy. The reveal on Virmire as Shepard finally has the chance to speak with Sovereign. Ilos, Vigil and fighting our way back to the Citadel for the race through the maintenance ducts to reach Saren in time.

The story was exceptional in my opinion. Each main mission introduced another key part of the plot, another clue revealing Saren’s motivations and driving the story forward. The story rose to a crescendo as Shepard and her
team mates went though the Mu Relay, fought their way through Ilos, discovered Vigil and risked everything to return to the Citadel for the final confrontation with Saren, his Geth and Sovereign. I remember the first time I
completed Mass Effect 1, sitting with tears in my eyes as the human fleet saved the destiny ascension.

Mass Effect 1 was not perfect but it had engaging, charismatic characters and an uplifting story that brought me back to it time and time again. From my perspective it was a game with a lot of class and rightly deserved the title of masterpiece in spite of its flaws.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for Mass Effect 2. I found it crass, tasteless and deeply unpleasant. Bioware seems to have forced every nasty thing they could think of into Mass Effect 2 and in doing so utterly destroyed the feel of the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect 2 is not a sequel to Mass Effect 1. It is a spin off. The moments where I actually felt I was playing Mass Effect were all too brief.

The ‘story’ of Mass Effect 2 was unbelievably poor and I find it impossible to believe the same person wrote both games.

There seemed to be no narrative structure to the game. The plot, such as it was, was utterly contrived, unconvincing and frankly embarrassingly bad in places.  I have never played a Bioware game that had such a weak, threadbare story, such stilted dialogue or borrowed so heavily from other sources such as Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Terminator etc. The final battle was absurd. I won’t spoil it for anyone who hasn’t played the entire game; all I will say is that a cameo from Governor Schwarzenegger would not have been out of place. It was ridiculous and utterly inferior to the end game of Mass Effect 1 in every possible way.

Having Shepard die, be rebuilt and be upgraded throughout the game with more and more synthetic parts was pointless and only served as a flimsy attempt to force the player to accept working with Cerberus. It didn’t work on any level in my opinion. The two year gap was a transparent excuse to off load the original squad mates whose personalities did not fit into the type of game Bioware wanted to make. This might have worked better if they had been replaced by characters with equal charisma. They were not, in my opinion, with the only exception being Legion and EDI.

Once Shepard was alive again and the Collectors had been identified as the enemy the ‘plot’ then took on the appearance of a grocery list. Gather specialists, do loyalty missions, gather minerals to upgrade the Normandy and then do the final mission. Personally I found it slow moving and monotonous and frankly I was bored. There were too many new squad mates and it made it difficult to feel any attachment to any of them, even if I had found their personalities appealing, which I didn’t. And whilst the new Normandy was beautiful, I had the overwhelming urge to off load the crew and fumigate the ship.

Though out this period of the game, there was little or no story progression.  The conversations with the squad mates seemed designed to railroad the player into embarking on a new romance. After one conversation with Jacob the flirting and innuendo began, and I could find no dialogue option that simply said I’m not interested. Shepard’s lines were also delivered in a forced flirty tone over which the player was given no control, not one option for her to speak in a normal tone of voice.  As for the crew, even the NPCs, speak to them at all and you had to listen to crass, lewd, suggestive comments. Wander though the bar on Illium and it was the same, crass, tasteless remarks and of course sexual innuendo. Perhaps that is titillating if you’re 15, however as an adult with
a life it became incredibly tedious incredibly quickly. Mass Effect 1 didn’t need to resort to this sort of thing to garner sales.

I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

Ultimately I loved Mass Effect 1 and I want to genuinely thank Bioware for producing such a fantastic game that gave me many hours of enjoyment.  As for Mass Effect 2, it has been a disappointment on almost every level.  Its tone, the story quality, the squad mates, all vastly inferior to Mass Effect 1 in my opinion. I’m afraid it has killed this IP for me and I truly regret my decision to purchase it.

tl;dr

Shut up, I liked the game. No matter how hard you don't.

[Atmosfear3]

Camo5050 wrote...

Ozymandias23 wrote...

As I said

"Mass Effect 2 is a game that has little or no story, what little plot there is, is significantly inferior to the first game in my opinion. Bioware's goal seems to have been to attract a certain type of audience to this game and from what I can see they have callously used certain historical events for the sole reason of creating a 'dark and edgy' feel. I find that inappropriate and consequently posted my thoughts in this forum."

I suppose I'm losing something in translation of my opinions as written in contrast to your original post.  I'm not taking issue with your opinion that you find the story weak and unenjoyable.  It seems fairly evident that you do indeed find the story telling in the second title less engaging and a big disappointment.  The first game was a classically romantic hero's journey.  The second, is not.

What I'm taking issue with is the personal moral offence you convey in implying that much of the content was delivered in a gratuitously immoral fashion, with no other purpose than to titillate the base senses of it's audience.
And, I also take issue with your subtle innuendo that those that may enjoy the second game are themselves, gratuitously immoral.  In short, it seems that there's an underlying tone in your posts that those at Bioware that made the game are bad people and that the game is targeted at those of low moral character.

There is a context to much of the game's content.  Even if you don't observe it as such.  I'd like to think that I'm not just picking shapes out of clouds here and that the dark and uncomfortable themes in the second game are indeed there for a purpose, and not as an advocation.  I can understand that you may be personally morally offended by some of what you see, but what I've been trying to reiterate is that it is a work of adventure fiction.  It's not high-art.  It's pulp story telling; it's not a cultural cornerstone. It's a distraction, not a code of conduct.

I understand that it diverges quite darkly from the classical romantic themes of the first game.  And, I understand that you're disappointed that it's not following the same formula.  However, I also think that it's somewhat unkind to levy a hyperbole of the second game being built around gratuitously base themes, as well as the implication that if someone isn't as offended as you are, then it's a reflection of a morally stunted personality.  If it's not your intent to imply such a tone, then I apologize for reading that sense of self-superiority into it.  However, your unhappiness does seem to come from a place of personal anger rather than an objective disatisfaction of thematic shift.

Thanks.

I think this is perhaps the most educated post I have ever read on a gaming forum.

Kudos to you good sir/madam

[red dragon of baldur's]

Okay after reading your form I have to say that there are some flaws with it

1: Drew Karpyshyn DID NOT write Mass Effect 2's story Marc Walters did. if you look at the credits in ME 1 you will notice that Karpyshyn is the lead writer, and in 2's credits Karpyshyn is listed second beneath Walters who is the lead writer.



2: I found that Samaras story is probaly one of the best BioWare quest's I have ever played. The fact that Morinth is a sexual predator really creeped me out, since I was playing at night it fealt like a semi horror film. This pulled me into the story.

Plus the thing about Nef feeling like a freak for being attracted to a woman is what is happening in cultures today.



3: The portrayal of woman has already been answered so no need to go there.



4:The Idea of Shepard dieing was a really good start to a new addition of this series. it helped me feel more into the story than I already was.



5:I think that I have answered all that I feel like. if I want to add more later ill edit my post later.

[mass_zotz]

If that's the way you feel well that kinda sucks for you. I really liked it. Anyway to me, you sound like that the galaxy would be a much happier place, but I really liked that it was much dark because you are in a different part of the galaxy where it is more unjust, unlawful and corrupt. I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.

Modifié par mass_zotz, 06 février 2010 - 05:06 .

[AngryTigerP]

Nautica773 wrote...

You know what my problem with the Asari is?
They make no sense. There's no reason for them to be on the council. What do they bring to the table? The Salarians are noted for being the most intelligent and most scientific. The Turians are the most militaristic and provide the most troops to defend Council space.
The Asari? Blue, female wizards from what I can tell. They have no military of any note, they have no interest in information gathering and it seems they run their sections of space through endless debates.
It seems, without their galactic knockers, the Asari would be lucky to even have an Embassy on the Citadel. They seem more interested in populating bars and strip clubs then contributing in any real fashion to galactic society. Supposedly they represent 'Diplomacy' yet all the big decisions are made through force (Salarians with the Krogan during the Rachni wars, the Turians and Salarians with the Genophage). It seems they represent more 'empty' diplomacy and are just the public face of Council law.
I would like to see the space women race have some real teeth to back them up.

They were also the first species to locate the Citadel. The founders are kinda important, no?

Modifié par AngryTigerP, 06 février 2010 - 05:08 .

[Nautica773]

AngryTigerP wrote...
They were also the first species to locate the Citadel. The founders are kinda important, no?

Until some barbaric civilization rises up and kills them.
Sure, them founding the Council is impressive. But, at least from history, starting something doesn't amount to much. If the Asari didn't have something to back their interest aside from... I guess tradition... it stands to reason that they would have been ousted by a combined force between the Salarians and Turians. I would just like to see them offer something to the universe other than eye candy.
And, it would also be nice, if they were used as an avenue to explore gender roles and expectations. I don't see why the 'all female race' couldn't have had one of the best armies in the galaxy, or at least a decent one. I was a little disappointed to basically see the Asari are space "women" in that they represent everything commonly associated with that gender. 
Anyway, that's neither here nor there and it's unlikely to be addressed. So the Asari will basically continue 'not making sense' for the rest of this trilogy.