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ME2: Threadbare Plot and Sickening Story Elements


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#326
Mondo47

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Like a few folk here, I don't agree with everything the original poster said, but I'll give them kudos for a pretty good argument/statement of opinon. Here's my two cents in response (I apologise in advance for the Wall-o-Text experience ahead of time):

I saw ME2 as being very much the dark middle-chapter of a suitably epic story (all the Empire Strikes Back comparisons through the boards suggest I'm far from alone here). So for ME2 the content was suitably grimier and more ambiguous; characters struggled with hard pasts and unpleasant moral choices, while Shepard constructed his Dirty Dozen and assisted them in some way or another in putting their past misdeeds or experiences behind them. Shepard as a character helps them grow out of where they are into a place where they can go into the future and step onto the next page of their lives.

As for the unpleasant elements of the story, ok, I can see how some
people would be offended or distressed by some of them. Epic stories
have though been filled with disturbing themes for centuries; in fact,
sometimes the further back you go, the worse they get - rape, murder,
torture, incest, genocide, fratracide, infantacide, and those are just
the common ones. History itself is full of it, too. I'll agree that the whole young Asari running off to
be pole-dancers, mercs, waitresses and floozys thing was a bit of a
relic of the juvenile James T Kirk school of alien cultures (as in
female aliens are there to be a funny colour, dress in skimpy nothings
and throw themselves at rugged male hero-types), but I was willing to
buy the whole 300-year teenage phase thing and it is a very old trope of sci-fi fiction now. Not a very PC one, but one that will take a while yet to abraid into something less juvenile. That is though a very minor aspect in something as large as the ME series. Sci-fi is a little phallocentric in its politics at times, as is a lot fantasy and horror fiction (though not all, admittedly). Gender politics will always be fighting a tough battle to get correct representation, but no one game/book/movie will ever please everyone.

While it was never said, I saw Shepard's quest in ME2 for the team's loyalty not so much as a means to make them survive, but as a way to make them want to survive; instead of throwing themselves suicidally at the enemy, they fight with a passion to live beyond the final battle, earning either redemption, hope or direction to become new people no longer shackled to ghosts of their pasts (Miranda's envy of normality, Jacob's relationship with his father, Jack's childhood of torture and abuse, Grunt's lack of connection to his heritage, Thane's desire to make amends, Mordin's contemplation of ethics and morality, etc.). Shepard is not so much marching them into doom, but trying to save them from their own personal dooms though facing a greater one.

Just using Jack's origin story as an example (because the character seems to be one people either love or hate with seemingly no middle ground), it could not have in my eyes worked in any other way. Without such a horrible past to have endured, Jack would have been a simple sociopathic criminal with a tendency to drop f-bombs left and right, only brought along to blow things apart and thus as disposable as a bag of demo-charges. The character's endurance of terrible wrongs was responsible for the shape she had grown into, and without seeing and experiencing the unpleasant reality of it, she would have been a character the audience could develop no serious empathy for. Instead understanding her past made me at least want to know more about her and see if there was a way to free her from the bonds of the past. It made her my favorite character of the game, hands down.

Jacob's story had a similar vein, placing him in his father's shadow and using the abhorent events on the planet's surface to demonstrate once and for all he was the better man. That one could have been a little better drawn out in my eyes, but I could see what it was aiming for. Without the moral questions, without the darkness, there would have been much less meaning, and much less to make the characters more detailed. And if you didn't care, empathise, sympathise or just plain like the characters, would you really want to see any of them survive? Or would you just fire them at the Collectors and forget them? Bad things happen to good people in the real world, things that often have no excuse. These events shape them. The game was doing just that, and I feel that the dark, seedy and horrifying aspects of this were needed to paint such a shady world correctly and realistically.

The story took the form of character studies more than part of a big, over-arcing plot in my eyes; an interlude on the way to the main event (which Empire certainly is to continue the comparison), and while I agree that the main thrust of the story outside of the new crew could have had some more depth and a couple less plot holes in it, it was certainly more engaging to me than say Dragon Age: Origins was (that's just me personally - I still played DA:O through and enjoyed it, with the exception of one of the final plot twists was just so idiotic to a person with any concept of morality or simple story foreshadowing that there could be no turning back from what seemed an entirely inevitable ending). I loved ME2, enough to play it through a few times now just to explore different plot paths, etc. which I couldn't do with DA:O. Sure, it was a darker (occasionally uneaven) ride, even marching the path of the Paragon, but I certainly don't think they went too far, at least for me. In fact, without it, I don't think it could have functioned as well as it did.

Anyway, that's my own opinion. Thanks for bearing with me. You can wake up at the back now  ;)

#327
Saurel

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I kinda agree with the OP, even though I enjoyed ME2 more than ME1. I personally thought Omega was great, but there were other areas where the edginess seeps in where it doesn't feel like it should. Or it feels as though characters are being overly catty where it ruins the atmosphere (Illium).



ME1 was kind of a game of restraint. ME2 is a game of excess. Both have their strengths.



With excess you get some great things. Omega, the new combat system, some great recruiting missions (Grunt and Jack stand out in my mind). You also get a lot of silly stuff (Human-Reaper, overly Catty Asari, lots of references to fanboy discussions, petty insults to other game genres *see the game store on the citadel* ).



Its a bit esoteric, but I would say ME1's world was a bit more...sophisticated. Which I find hard to say without realizing I'm saying something entirely subjective and open to criticism. But the depiction of the council in 1 was reasonable in 2 its just silly. And there are a lot of sex things that seem included... just to have people go "hehe yeah".

#328
Heimdall

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Mondo47 wrote...

Like a few folk here, I don't agree with everything the original poster said, but I'll give them kudos for a pretty good argument/statement of opinon. Here's my two cents in response (I apologise in advance for the Wall-o-Text experience ahead of time):

I saw ME2 as being very much the dark middle-chapter of a suitably epic story (all the Empire Strikes Back comparisons through the boards suggest I'm far from alone here). So for ME2 the content was suitably grimier and more ambiguous; characters struggled with hard pasts and unpleasant moral choices, while Shepard constructed his Dirty Dozen and assisted them in some way or another in putting their past misdeeds or experiences behind them. Shepard as a character helps them grow out of where they are into a place where they can go into the future and step onto the next page of their lives.

As for the unpleasant elements of the story, ok, I can see how some
people would be offended or distressed by some of them. Epic stories
have though been filled with disturbing themes for centuries; in fact,
sometimes the further back you go, the worse they get - rape, murder,
torture, incest, genocide, fratracide, infantacide, and those are just
the common ones. History itself is full of it, too. I'll agree that the whole young Asari running off to
be pole-dancers, mercs, waitresses and floozys thing was a bit of a
relic of the juvenile James T Kirk school of alien cultures (as in
female aliens are there to be a funny colour, dress in skimpy nothings
and throw themselves at rugged male hero-types), but I was willing to
buy the whole 300-year teenage phase thing and it is a very old trope of sci-fi fiction now. Not a very PC one, but one that will take a while yet to abraid into something less juvenile. That is though a very minor aspect in something as large as the ME series. Sci-fi is a little phallocentric in its politics at times, as is a lot fantasy and horror fiction (though not all, admittedly). Gender politics will always be fighting a tough battle to get correct representation, but no one game/book/movie will ever please everyone.

While it was never said, I saw Shepard's quest in ME2 for the team's loyalty not so much as a means to make them survive, but as a way to make them want to survive; instead of throwing themselves suicidally at the enemy, they fight with a passion to live beyond the final battle, earning either redemption, hope or direction to become new people no longer shackled to ghosts of their pasts (Miranda's envy of normality, Jacob's relationship with his father, Jack's childhood of torture and abuse, Grunt's lack of connection to his heritage, Thane's desire to make amends, Mordin's contemplation of ethics and morality, etc.). Shepard is not so much marching them into doom, but trying to save them from their own personal dooms though facing a greater one.

Just using Jack's origin story as an example (because the character seems to be one people either love or hate with seemingly no middle ground), it could not have in my eyes worked in any other way. Without such a horrible past to have endured, Jack would have been a simple sociopathic criminal with a tendency to drop f-bombs left and right, only brought along to blow things apart and thus as disposable as a bag of demo-charges. The character's endurance of terrible wrongs was responsible for the shape she had grown into, and without seeing and experiencing the unpleasant reality of it, she would have been a character the audience could develop no serious empathy for. Instead understanding her past made me at least want to know more about her and see if there was a way to free her from the bonds of the past. It made her my favorite character of the game, hands down.

Jacob's story had a similar vein, placing him in his father's shadow and using the abhorent events on the planet's surface to demonstrate once and for all he was the better man. That one could have been a little better drawn out in my eyes, but I could see what it was aiming for. Without the moral questions, without the darkness, there would have been much less meaning, and much less to make the characters more detailed. And if you didn't care, empathise, sympathise or just plain like the characters, would you really want to see any of them survive? Or would you just fire them at the Collectors and forget them? Bad things happen to good people in the real world, things that often have no excuse. These events shape them. The game was doing just that, and I feel that the dark, seedy and horrifying aspects of this were needed to paint such a shady world correctly and realistically.

The story took the form of character studies more than part of a big, over-arcing plot in my eyes; an interlude on the way to the main event (which Empire certainly is to continue the comparison), and while I agree that the main thrust of the story outside of the new crew could have had some more depth and a couple less plot holes in it, it was certainly more engaging to me than say Dragon Age: Origins was (that's just me personally - I still played DA:O through and enjoyed it, with the exception of one of the final plot twists was just so idiotic to a person with any concept of morality or simple story foreshadowing that there could be no turning back from what seemed an entirely inevitable ending). I loved ME2, enough to play it through a few times now just to explore different plot paths, etc. which I couldn't do with DA:O. Sure, it was a darker (occasionally uneaven) ride, even marching the path of the Paragon, but I certainly don't think they went too far, at least for me. In fact, without it, I don't think it could have functioned as well as it did.

Anyway, that's my own opinion. Thanks for bearing with me. You can wake up at the back now  ;)


This ^_^

#329
MasterSolo

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Everybody is saying that the plot was weak. I mean seriously...the plot in ME2 is anything but weak. Sure the scale of the plot in ME1 was bigger, there's no arguing about that. But can someone give me an example of a plot, that would be better, more epic and on a larger scale than ME1 and at the same time, be less better, less epic and on a smaller scale compared to ME3 (that would probably involve the galaxy fighting against the reapers...I'm just speculating). It's almost imposible to think of a plot like that. That's why ME2 tries to put more importance on characters. And personally, I felt absolutely proud and awesome, when I got all of my team alive, out of the suicide mission and showing the middle finger to the illusive man. I was very attached to the character and got that same feeling of pure awesomeness when I finished ME2. In the past month I've played both games, 2 times each, being able to compare them, and I can sincerely say that both games are absolutely fantastic.

#330
Saurel

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ME2 needed more Spectres. Thats all I got, Solo :D

#331
SL22

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Please... please can we keep this in one thread? I'm sick of coming on here everyday and seeing "I didn't like the plot," "I didn't like the gameplay," etc.



You have an opinion, I'm fine with that but we don't need separate threads for similar complaints.

#332
MasterSolo

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Saurel wrote...

ME2 needed more Spectres. Thats all I got, Solo :D


Yes...3 more clones of Shepard to boost up epicness.  :D

#333
Saurel

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MasterSolo wrote...

Saurel wrote...

ME2 needed more Spectres. Thats all I got, Solo :D


Yes...3 more clones of Shepard to boost up epicness.  :D


One of the things that seems silly is that the Council isn't more interested in Shepards epic revival and that there aren''t other Spectres out of the hundred or so that might have a clue as to whats going on with either Cereberus or the Collectors.

Especially considering how competent Shepard is and he had some trouble getting in. And Saren was fairly competent it seems.

That kind of intervention though probably would have resulted in 4 game discs though. Because I could imagine Shepard being disuaded from being a Cerberus lacky, if the rest of the Galaxy showed any common sense.

#334
Kalfear

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SL22 wrote...

Please... please can we keep this in one thread? I'm sick of coming on here everyday and seeing "I didn't like the plot," "I didn't like the gameplay," etc.

You have an opinion, I'm fine with that but we don't need separate threads for similar complaints.


Dont come here then

The masses are not going to be quiet
Its funny, before ME2 released I would have liked to seen 1 pro shooter thread on the forums rather then the 100 by the same posters (at least these by different people). Didnt see you complaining then?

#335
Moonbox

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ODST 3 wrote...

This thread is sickening. Too bad you didn't enjoy the game. Play MGS4 or something else pretentious.


Sickening thread?  Haha get a life dude.  Strangely enough I found MGS4 to be just as crappy for similar reasons:  Terrible writing. 

Haha, I just noticed...your name is ODST.  No wonder you liked this game. 

#336
Moonbox

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MasterSolo wrote...

Everybody is saying that the plot was weak. I mean seriously...the plot in ME2 is anything but weak. Sure the scale of the plot in ME1 was bigger, there's no arguing about that. But can someone give me an example of a plot, that would be better, more epic and on a larger scale than ME1 and at the same time, be less better, less epic and on a smaller scale compared to ME3 (that would probably involve the galaxy fighting against the reapers...I'm just speculating). It's almost imposible to think of a plot like that. That's why ME2 tries to put more importance on characters. And personally, I felt absolutely proud and awesome, when I got all of my team alive, out of the suicide mission and showing the middle finger to the illusive man. I was very attached to the character and got that same feeling of pure awesomeness when I finished ME2. In the past month I've played both games, 2 times each, being able to compare them, and I can sincerely say that both games are absolutely fantastic.


The plot was absolutely weak.  The plot didn't have to be more epic in scale to ME1.  The plot simply had to expand on the existing story and prepare for the finale.  ME2 didn't do that.  It didn't propel the story.  It was a mashed-together series of side-plots with characters who previously had nothing to do with the story and were given cheesy and convenient reasons for joining the mission. 

The whole game was an aside.  Giving us a new cast of characters and providing us some backstory for them doesn't qualify as story.  How does rescuing Miranda's sister build the story?  What does Jacob's Dad have to do with anything? Why am I spending the whole game going through unrelated side quests for brand new irrelevant characters instead of continuing the story from ME1? 

Everybody is saying the plot was weak for a reason.  You're mistaking the mashing together of a bunch of unrelated character background as 'plot'.  It isn't.  A good writer knows this.  A bad writer gives us ME2. 

#337
Ender_118

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Well then you should obviously wash your hands of it and leave forever now that you've spent hours of your life composing nothing constructive at all.

You apparently hate everything that ever existed without having a better alternative. Find something else to do.

#338
smudboy

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There are obvious problems with the main plot/Shepard.



I did find Jacob's Loyalty mission to be quite out of place.

#339
LOST GAM3R

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Actually, the lead writer for ME2 was not the lead writter of ME1, haha.

#340
RiouHotaru

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Slice Of Bryce wrote...

I actually find you trying to paralell all of the dark story sub-plots with events that took place during the Holocaust, insulting. To compare a mission on a video game with the torture and death of prisoners at Auschwitz is no way comparable in scale. Please refrain from doing this anymore

This.  I honestly don't care if you see some kind of vague parallel OP, you're likely the only person who did.  Same with Jacob's loyalty mission.  Why is it that video games are not allowed to offer morally ambiguous situations and circumstances?  Is it so horrible to you that people cannot be faced with situations where the options aren't as clear as black and white.

Also OP, your talk about what "teenagers" should or shouldn't be exposed to...the game clearly has an M rating.  If anyone not of the appropriate age is getting their hands on this...then shame on their parents for allowing it, because that's the only way it's happening.  Video games aren't just for kids anymore.  Morally vague or distateful situations should be presented in an objective manner, with ME2 does in SPADES.
Image IPBImage IPB

#341
mhendon

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I really enjoyed ME1. I got into way more than ME2 and I would agree that ME1 had a better story. However, i still really enjoyed ME2. Me2's story was watered down because it was the middle instalment. It is really hard to make a compelling stand alone story for the #2. No one is going to remember the middle of the thing, because it is not terrribly important.



As far as the disturbing elements to the story, I envy you for feeling as sickened by it. It was SUPPOSED to make you sick. That gave it more power and I would be offended if the people at Bioware thought they went too far. Morinth was sick, Jacob's father was sick, the people at the Jack's facility were sick and THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED. .

#342
Llandaryn

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Slice Of Bryce wrote...

I actually find you trying to paralell all of the dark story sub-plots with events that took place during the Holocaust, insulting. To compare a mission on a video game with the torture and death of prisoners at Auschwitz is no way comparable in scale. Please refrain from doing this anymore

This.  I honestly don't care if you see some kind of vague parallel OP, you're likely the only person who did.  Same with Jacob's loyalty mission.  Why is it that video games are not allowed to offer morally ambiguous situations and circumstances?  Is it so horrible to you that people cannot be faced with situations where the options aren't as clear as black and white.

Also OP, your talk about what "teenagers" should or shouldn't be exposed to...the game clearly has an M rating.  If anyone not of the appropriate age is getting their hands on this...then shame on their parents for allowing it, because that's the only way it's happening.  Video games aren't just for kids anymore.  Morally vague or distateful situations should be presented in an objective manner, with ME2 does in SPADES.
Image IPBImage IPB


Mostly agree. I'm an adult. I don't need to be rolled up in bubble-wrap, coddled, and sheltered from the harsher aspects of life. I can also see when a game/tv program/film is subtly drawing attention to things, whilst at the same time, not condoning them. Hell, Star Trek did it all the time. That's how we got from the Federation being a utopian, perfect, incorruptible society in TOS and early TNG, to it having morally ambiguous, even questionable attributes in later TNG and DS9. I mean, hell, DS9... war, oppression, Bajoran work camps, slave labour, torture, exploitation... these sorts of things make a game realistic and believable. I can only run around Utopia for so long before I get bored.

Just my 2.

#343
Shahadem

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I have to agree with you Oz. There were very few positive changes in ME2, and a lot of negative ones.



The very first 1.5 hours of ME1 were the greatest video game experience I have ever had. The battle on the Citadel was almost as spectacular because you were running and gunning your way through an entire army, only to get to Saren and talk him into commiting suicide to save his honor.



Every main storyline mission played through like a seperate movie, and they all came back together at the end. Sure the planet exploration was boring as heck, but you knew when playing that was just pointless filler so it was easy to forgive.



In ME2 only the pointless filler remains. And it's not because I played too much ME1, I still get chills when playing through the first ME1 mission and the battle on the Citadel. I have never gotten that same feeling during any single part of ME2, nor does my character even feel powerful anymore.

#344
NoShtSherlock

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Slice Of Bryce wrote...

I actually find you trying to paralell all of the dark story sub-plots with events that took place during the Holocaust, insulting. To compare a mission on a video game with the torture and death of prisoners at Auschwitz is no way comparable in scale. Please refrain from doing this anymore

This.  I honestly don't care if you see some kind of vague parallel OP, you're likely the only person who did.  Same with Jacob's loyalty mission.  Why is it that video games are not allowed to offer morally ambiguous situations and circumstances?  Is it so horrible to you that people cannot be faced with situations where the options aren't as clear as black and white.

Also OP, your talk about what "teenagers" should or shouldn't be exposed to...the game clearly has an M rating.  If anyone not of the appropriate age is getting their hands on this...then shame on their parents for allowing it, because that's the only way it's happening.  Video games aren't just for kids anymore.  Morally vague or distateful situations should be presented in an objective manner, with ME2 does in SPADES.
Image IPBImage IPB


In the UK it has a 15 plus rating not a mature rating like it does in America.

Also the difference between show opression and torture and things of that nature on DS 9 is that this was a tv show not a game that is supposed to be a form of entertainment.  A game is suppose to be fun not disturb you, or make you feel sick to your stomach and have stories of rape or child abuse in them.  If the writer or Bioware wanted to provoke emotion then make a movie or a t'v show and add those nasty parts of life in.  But a computer game is suppose to be fun, entertaining etc.  Mass Effect 2 for me was not fun.

Yes, we live in a world where some bad things happen and there is no reason why when respectfully done that these subjects can be shown in a proper way.  Computer games are suppose to be a fun entertainment that lifts you out of reality for a little while.  Games are not suppose to wallow in the worst elements of human society and use these worst elements just so a game can be dark or edgy.

Like the OP I too don't like this game for the way in which many area's of history have been used to make the game appear more brutal, violent, dark and edgy.

Jack/Subject Zero has been brutalized in a Cerberus camp where the back story sounds like she could have been a child who survived the holocaust which is one of the worst times in are own history.  She has been created with a barcode type tattoo around her shaven bald head.  I wonder if any of you had a relative that survived the ****s camps would you still think Jack's back story was rightly done to make her character darker or edgier and would you still think there was no problem with this?  Would you still think it was done in a respectful way?

Or what if one of you had a sister/mother/aunt/daughter who had been raped, molested would you see no problem with Jacob's loyality mission to give his back story a darker edge?

I don't know if this is what the OP means.  But I agree that these themes and back stories to make the games darkier or have a brutal, violent theme should not have been put in the game to make it have a darker edge or make the game sell as a darker sequel.  I don't think these subjects were handled respectfully and they shouldn't have been put in a computer game.

TV Series, Movies or Computer Game are three different areas of entertainment and what subjects could be handled well and fit well in a t.v series or movie are not the same kind of stories that should be put into games whether there for mature adults or 15 plus and that's in my personal opinion:)

Modifié par NoShtSherlock, 11 février 2010 - 05:33 .


#345
The Black Ghost

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Ozymandias23 wrote...


I’ve just finished my first and what will be my only play though of Mass Effect 2 and I thought I’d share some thoughts. Be warned, this is a long one!

I play games for entertainment, for enjoyment.  Mass Effect 1 was a game I returned to time and time again for the sheer pleasure of playing it. In spite of its flaws, it was a lot of fun, had some fantastic characters, an uplifting story that was developed throughout the game and an outstanding final mission. Several parts always stood out for me. The speech the council gives as shepard is made a Spectre. Shepard’s speech to the crew as she takes control of the Normandy. The reveal on Virmire as Shepard finally has the chance to speak with Sovereign. Ilos, Vigil and fighting our way back to the Citadel for the race through the maintenance ducts to reach Saren in time.

The story was exceptional in my opinion. Each main mission introduced another key part of the plot, another clue revealing Saren’s motivations and driving the story forward. The story rose to a crescendo as Shepard and her
team mates went though the Mu Relay, fought their way through Ilos, discovered Vigil and risked everything to return to the Citadel for the final confrontation with Saren, his Geth and Sovereign. I remember the first time I
completed Mass Effect 1, sitting with tears in my eyes as the human fleet saved the destiny ascension.

Mass Effect 1 was not perfect but it had engaging, charismatic characters and an uplifting story that brought me back to it time and time again. From my perspective it was a game with a lot of class and rightly deserved the title of masterpiece in spite of its flaws.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for Mass Effect 2. I found it crass, tasteless and deeply unpleasant. Bioware seems to have forced every nasty thing they could think of into Mass Effect 2 and in doing so utterly destroyed the feel of the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect 2 is not a sequel to Mass Effect 1. It is a spin off. The moments where I actually felt I was playing Mass Effect were all too brief.

The ‘story’ of Mass Effect 2 was unbelievably poor and I find it impossible to believe the same person wrote both games.

There seemed to be no narrative structure to the game. The plot, such as it was, was utterly contrived, unconvincing and frankly embarrassingly bad in places.  I have never played a Bioware game that had such a weak, threadbare story, such stilted dialogue or borrowed so heavily from other sources such as Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Terminator etc. The final battle was absurd. I won’t spoil it for anyone who hasn’t played the entire game; all I will say is that a cameo from Governor Schwarzenegger would not have been out of place. It was ridiculous and utterly inferior to the end game of Mass Effect 1 in every possible way.

Having Shepard die, be rebuilt and be upgraded throughout the game with more and more synthetic parts was pointless and only served as a flimsy attempt to force the player to accept working with Cerberus. It didn’t work on any level in my opinion. The two year gap was a transparent excuse to off load the original squad mates whose personalities did not fit into the type of game Bioware wanted to make. This might have worked better if they had been replaced by characters with equal charisma. They were not, in my opinion, with the only exception being Legion and EDI.

Once Shepard was alive again and the Collectors had been identified as the enemy the ‘plot’ then took on the appearance of a grocery list. Gather specialists, do loyalty missions, gather minerals to upgrade the Normandy and then do the final mission. Personally I found it slow moving and monotonous and frankly I was bored. There were too many new squad mates and it made it difficult to feel any attachment to any of them, even if I had found their personalities appealing, which I didn’t. And whilst the new Normandy was beautiful, I had the overwhelming urge to off load the crew and fumigate the ship.

Though out this period of the game, there was little or no story progression.  The conversations with the squad mates seemed designed to railroad the player into embarking on a new romance. After one conversation with Jacob the flirting and innuendo began, and I could find no dialogue option that simply said I’m not interested. Shepard’s lines were also delivered in a forced flirty tone over which the player was given no control, not one option for her to speak in a normal tone of voice.  As for the crew, even the NPCs, speak to them at all and you had to listen to crass, lewd, suggestive comments. Wander though the bar on Illium and it was the same, crass, tasteless remarks and of course sexual innuendo. Perhaps that is titillating if you’re 15, however as an adult with
a life it became incredibly tedious incredibly quickly. Mass Effect 1 didn’t need to resort to this sort of thing to garner sales.

I also found the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 offensive at times. On Omega the Asari seemed to have been assigned the role of strippers, pole dancers and prostitutes. There seemed to be a recurring theme that
suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

In that mission we were presented with a scenario where a ship had crash landed, the captain had separated out the female crew members and placed them in a camp. He then gave these women to his officers to be used
as play things. The idea was horrific. Perhaps Bioware feel that the suggestion of rape is suitable content for their ‘dark and edgy’ video game but I don’t.  It was uncalled for and I found it sickening and disturbing. For me it evoked parallels with some of the atrocities carried out in ‘camps’ across Europe during World War 2.

This feeling continued into Subject Zero’s loyalty mission where we’re provided with a story about the abuse of children. Children bought or stolen, ripped away from home and family, transported to a facility in crates, half starved and experimented upon, injected with substances to see what effect it would have. The parallels with history are hard to ignore. The children of Bullenhuser Damm, brought from Auschwitz to Neuengamme for experimentation.  Is this really suitable for inclusion in something that is supposed to be a source of entertainment?

I remember watching the E3 reveal trailer and Derek Watts, the art director, talking about how nasty ME2 was in parts and asking his colleagues ‘have we gone too far?’.  Well my answer would be yes, you did.

Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

Ultimately I loved Mass Effect 1 and I want to genuinely thank Bioware for producing such a fantastic game that gave me many hours of enjoyment.  As for Mass Effect 2, it has been a disappointment on almost every level.  Its tone, the story quality, the squad mates, all vastly inferior to Mass Effect 1 in my opinion. I’m afraid it has killed this IP for me and I truly regret my decision to purchase it.


I agree with
-Bad story, bad ending
-Cheesy dialogue at times
-Romances are too blunt and actually take away character dialogue, they are corny and fake feeling as well as unemotional, even if options were expanded from the previous game
-No buildup in plot and not enought real motivation.

1). The squadmates (with the exception of Miranda, who has no emotion outside of her loyalty mission. Also Zaeed, who has no real dialogue, and SuZe, who never really warms up to you unless you decide to follow her romance) are actually very interesting and good, in my opiion. Thane, Mordin, and Garrus are the best characters in this game.

The only problem is for some characters (who seem to exist solely as romance options) there is not enough dialogue when you talk to them. At some point, the only thing you will be able to talk to them about is romance (which, in this universe, means one time sex)

2) I dont think women are really all that mistreated by the game. I agree they are too sexualized, and for characters like Subject Zero, Tali, Morinth, and Miranda it is all too apparent their only real purpose is to serve the player)
-It makes sense for the Asari strippers, because to be honest they were like that in the first game, and there is some explanation for it, as well as some resentment of it by other Asari.

There are some dark story elements in place, but these are not glorified (i.e. the female slaves, the butchering of innocents, etc...). This is a darker game, they said that it would be. These things happen in real life, they can happen in a fictional universe too. In some cases, it makes the stories more emotional and realistic.

#346
Dark Specie

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Well, gee.. I may have some issuses with how Bioware handled the story, the characters and so forth.
But if anything, I can't fault them for the "dark" aspect of the game. The world's not a nice place, and I don't see why Bioware would be wrong about sdhowing this to be vthe case in Me2. I know that there are people who argue that the bad aspects of reality should be heavily toned down because in their opinion, people turn to fiction to forget how harsh reality can be. This is certainly true to some people, but there are also people who  prefers to see reality as it is even in fiction as well. And in the end, one should remember.. In games like this, the hero can actually succeed. How realistic is that if you think about it, really? There eas someone I once saw say that "Independece Day would have been more realistic had the aliens won". Yet the heroes succeeded, just like they can in ME. Isn't that enough? ^_-.

#347
shaneho78

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OP appears to me as someone who is ruled by her emotions rather than reason. The NPC's doubts about her own sexuality does not reflect the writers' homophobia. It mirrors people in real life who do really have doubts about their sexuality. Her dislike of Jacob (albeit partially) based on his father's actions was unjustified since Jacob himself is not the perpetrator. Furthermore, Jacob condemned his father's actions more than anyone. Her opinions reek of genetic fallacy.

Modifié par shaneho78, 11 février 2010 - 07:37 .


#348
Solitas777

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I thought the main story was too short and too boring. I wasn't really that interested in it, and in an RPG the main story should be the centerpiece of any game. The gameplay and technical issues are far superior...but I think we paid too high a price...the main story. I care more for the story than any element in a game. On its own ME2 is a good game...but its not an epic game or even a great game. I did one play through and the second time around I was a 1/4 of the way through and found myself bored. Take that for what you will.

#349
NoShtSherlock

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Shaneho, just because you don't agree with the OP's opinion on this game you have no business making assumptions about their life or their experiences. If you can't be mature enough to agree to disagree then you shouldn't post on threads like these

#350
Destructo_33

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Read the OP and this is what i have to say.

In ME1 you spend your entire time in Council space. This is the clean and ordered society that most people prefer to live in.

In ME2 you spend your time in the Terminus systems. These systems are supposed to be dark and dangerous. like it or not slavery is still present in today's society so its not a stretch at all to say that slavery would be found in other areas of the galaxy.

frankly i think that by using the Terminus systems to contrast Council space in the sequal was a good move on Bioware's part.