465 réponses à ce sujet

[Aisynia]

Ozymandias23: Pull the stick out of your ass chica.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Jib's comment,s which I quoted, were referencing the fact that the Asaris we saw were all in relationships with male aliens. None of them seemed to be in relationships with female aliens which is odd for a species were gender has no meaning.

There are no other female aliens in the game. The only other females we see besides Asari are Humans and there is at least one major plot important Asari / Female Human pairing in the game.

[Mox Ruuga]

Nightwriter wrote...


You know what I would’ve liked? It would’ve been neat for me if the Illusive Man had already recruited all your squadmates for your mission. As soon as you enter the Normandy, they’re there. “Here’s your crew, Shepard, I’ve brought you the team that can accomplish this, now it’s up to you”.

They may not like being there – Jack could still be in cryo, Grunt could still be in his tank, various other members could’ve been hired or even dragged there. But you begin the game and there they are, thrown in with each other. It’s crazy, but you have to make it work, you have to find out about these characters and keep them out of each other’s throats.

And then the story starts from there.

Excellent idea. Would have been a change of pace to the standard adventure plot, where you meet your crew along the way.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nightwriter wrote...


You know what I would’ve liked? It would’ve been neat for me if the Illusive Man had already recruited all your squadmates for your mission. As soon as you enter the Normandy, they’re there. “Here’s your crew, Shepard, I’ve brought you the team that can accomplish this, now it’s up to you”.

They may not like being there – Jack could still be in cryo, Grunt could still be in his tank, various other members could’ve been hired or even dragged there. But you begin the game and there they are, thrown in with each other. It’s crazy, but you have to make it work, you have to find out about these characters and keep them out of each other’s throats.

And then the story starts from there.

But then you'd just have the opening moments of Mass Effect 3

I like the whole recruiting of the characters being the major element. I think it will serve as foreshadowing for when Shepard has to go gather entire races to defend the galaxy against the Reapers. The very act of him getting together this very differing group of individuals who would never work together under most conditions is simply one step towards what is to come. To me anyway.

[Skavau]

A Response to Ozymandias. Thank you for replying.

No I am not insinuating any such thing. What I am saying is that if
these kind of issues, such as the Holocaust, are going to used as
'inspiration' for game content then they should be treated in a
respectful way. Bioware didn't do this in my opinion.

The Holocaust was not referenced in the game. You are reading too much into Jack's introduction, which appears to be based on typical themes encountered in many other sci-fi games where people's powers are manipulated and boosted through torture (often as children).

Irrespectively, how could it have been improved precisely? How should Jack's past have been addressed?

I think it's very obvious that Bioware used Jewish history, culture and
religion as 'inspiration' for aspects of Mass Effect 2.

I can see that in the Quarians and name references of some characters.

There have been
several threads popping up on this forum were numerous people have
commented on the references to the Jews. I believe one topic was
entitled 'are the Quarians Jewish?' Not a surprising question
considering the Jewish prayer that Bioware has the Quarian judge recite
during Tali's trial, a prayer that is repeated almost verbatim. I doubt
you could suggest that 'my own sensitivities' have caused me to notice
that link.

No, the Quarians do come across as having Jewish influence. As well as Muslim influence. Although they are for all purposes very secular in actuality (the Quarians, that is).

There are numerous Jewish references through out
Mass Effect 2 which adds to the impression that parallels to events which took place in
concentration
camps were deliberate as opposed to something I'm seeing because of 'my
own sensitivites'. My point is this, if a game contains content that
seems to parallel events that occured during the Holocaust the
developers should, out of respect, ensure that they have something
worthwhile to say about it.

No they shouldn't.

Their objective is to provide entertainment to make money. They do that by producing a good enjoyable game with a good storyline. I believe they have done that (despite some issues). Irrespectively you still haven't explained exactly how they handled the Jack situation incorrectly.

I came across a
discussion the other day about whether Bioware have left themselves
open to accusations of anti-semitism given the Jewish references in Mass Effect 2. Hardly surprising in my opinion.

LOL

I'm sorry, this is beyond emotional outrage. How do you compare a situation with a fictional character being tortured to maximise her powers to that of Auschwitz? Do you compare every torture situation in every form of fiction with that of Auschwitz?

Please see my response to your previous comment.

Your previous response does not address the fact that the theme of Jack is encountered in other video games, in other forms of literature. Your previous response does nothing to back up your frankly ridiculous claim that the character of Jack was directly taken from a **** concentration camp. Your previous response also does not tell me how you feel about other games that have dabbled with this formula before.

All you did was re-assert that "No, it does reference Auschwitz and I am still very offended!"

Would you by the way have Brave New World or Atlas Shrugged filtered for their offensiveness to victims of fascist states?

Jacob's loyalty mission, the general attitude towards women in the
game. Try playing as male Shepard, then play as female Shepard ...
notice the difference?

What about Jacob's loyalty mission? The women on that planet are represented as a minority, not the norm. The characters all express outrage and contempt for the events on that island. Why have you not by the way referenced the possibility that people could come out of Mass Effect viewing the men as barbarians? The men on Jacob's loyalty mission come off looking far worse than the women. The women are victims, the men are rapists. They garner sympathy, the men hatred.

Also, what "general attitude" towards women in the game are you referring to? You keep talking about it but only reference background Asari dancers in Omega.

Might I suggest you re- read what I wrote.

I have. My point still stands. You are complaining about the portrayal of women vs. the portrayal of men without bothering to back up your claims, or quantify exactly what you mean.

I have only addressed a few posts in this thread for the simple reason
that I don't frequent this forum regularly because of other commitments
and because it has become a fairly unpleasant place to be. Have you
noticed the racial hate threads that have popped up recently?

No, I haven't.

Perhaps, it is just you. I have seen no racial hate threads.

As for the Asari, an interesting perspective, however you seem to
have side stepped the point. It wasn't a comment about Asari - Asari
relationships. Jib's comment,s which I quoted, were referencing the
fact that the Asaris we saw were all in relationships with male aliens.
None of them seemed to be in relationships with female aliens which is
odd for a species were gender has no meaning.

I have no idea. Perhaps it became a part of Asari culture to go for men purely because of a borrowed idea from other races that a father figure ought to be male. Irrespectively, In a game that is so sexually liberal as Mass Effect, I do not think it is plausible for one minute to accuse it of homophobia.

[Skavau]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Jib's comment,s which I quoted, were referencing the fact that the Asaris we saw were all in relationships with male aliens. None of them seemed to be in relationships with female aliens which is odd for a species were gender has no meaning.

There are no other female aliens in the game. The only other females we see besides Asari are Humans and there is at least one major plot important Asari / Female Human pairing in the game.

A very good point which I missed. Bioware have forgone the introduction of female members of species. For some however, we know that Salarian females do not leave Salarian space. Krogan females are deemed to important to Krogan survival.

That does leave Turians though, that have not been accounted for. Albeit I only remember Salarian, Human and Krogan relationships with Asari in Mass Effect 2.

[glasgoo21]

Your anaylisis is harsh, certainly has elements of truth. Still your remakrs would apply to most movies and documentaries out on television.



As for the Asari, yes I agree that they are portriated as sexual animals available for pleasure, but I remember one of the most viewed movies of all times where a similar race was assigned the same role. Furthermore, The Asari show a whole different side when going to their home planet.



Still, I respect your opinion, hear your remarks, but don't share your view.

[WilliamShatner]

glasgoo21 wrote...

Your anaylisis is harsh, certainly has elements of truth. Still your remakrs would apply to most movies and documentaries out on television.

As for the Asari, yes I agree that they are portriated as sexual animals available for pleasure, but I remember one of the most viewed movies of all times where a similar race was assigned the same role. Furthermore, The Asari show a whole different side when going to their home planet.

Still, I respect your opinion, hear your remarks, but don't share your view.

E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial?

[NoShtSherlock]

There have been plenty of racist threads on these boards over the last few days and if you haven't seen them skav, then you're either blind or only see what you choose to see. There was one deleted at the weekend that was from a gamer who said 'the holocaust never happened' I mean how ridiculous is that. Across the internet in several gaming forums people have noticed the Jewish references and the ****s Camps references in ME 2. So I guess there is more than Ozy who has seen this in ME 2.

Plus, there are plenty similarities of between Jack's back stories and stories of camps like Auschwitz etc. Did you ever learn European History at School or University? Or is it just what you've watched on the history channel?

Modifié par NoShtSherlock, 15 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[yoomazir]

Aisynia wrote...

Ozymandias23: Pull the stick out of your ass chica.

yes,so you can put it in your mouth, how does that feel for a change?

as for OP, I agree with some parts like ME2 being subpar to ME but I think those loyatly missions and backstories of your crew were ok,even if most of them were so random.

Modifié par yoomazir, 15 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[Computron2000]

Its a dark tale.



This is not a disney game where its all roses and sunshine. I would have thought the rating would have pointed this out. Trying to ignore that humanity has a darkside means that the teen rated or kids rated games are for you.

[NoShtSherlock]

Computron2000 wrote...

Its a dark tale.

This is not a disney game where its all roses and sunshine. I would have thought the rating would have pointed this out. Trying to ignore that humanity has a darkside means that the teen rated or kids rated games are for you.

We all don't live in US or Canada where it has a mature rating.  In the UK the rating is 15 and to many people 15 year old's are not mature adults?

No-one said anybody wanted sunshine and roses and perhaps if you took your head out of the sewer you could smell any kind of roses:D

Modifié par NoShtSherlock, 15 février 2010 - 07:17 .

[Computron2000]

NoShtSherlock wrote...
We all don't live in US or Canada where it has a mature rating.  In the UK the rating is 15 and to many people 15 year old's are not mature adults?

No-one said anybody wanted sunshine and roses and perhaps if you took your head out of the sewer you could smell any kind of roses:D

Maybe you should start your screaming for a tougher rating

Heck, you could even complain that the game is horrifying to the arabians because the reapers vs the galactic races sound a lot like the crusades!  Or maybe all africans are sickened by the game showing Jacob half naked in one scene as it insults them and demeans their suffering!

We should also complain disney flims like beauty and the beast discriminates against ugly people! Someone somewhere will be forced into killing themselves because of this horrible horrible flim!

Or maybe, just maybe we could just teach the young better

Modifié par Computron2000, 15 février 2010 - 09:52 .

[Skavau]

NoShtSherlock wrote...

There have been plenty of racist threads on these boards over the last few days and if you haven't seen them skav, then you're either blind or only see what you choose to see.

Or maybe I haven't seen them? Perhaps it is just trolls?

There was one deleted at the weekend that was from a gamer who said 'the holocaust never happened' I mean how ridiculous is that.

You must be new to the internet. That person, sir, was probably just a troll.

Across the internet in several gaming forums people have noticed the Jewish references and the ****s Camps references in ME 2. So I guess there is more than Ozy who has seen this in ME 2.

LOL

Sorry, I can't take this complaint seriously.

Plus, there are plenty similarities of between Jack's back stories and stories of camps like Auschwitz etc. Did you ever learn European History at School or University? Or is it just what you've watched on the history channel?

Yes I did. And please tell me how (as the other user has failed to do) you know for sure that Jack's story was directly inspired, based on and because of the Auschwitz concentration camp. I do not accept repeated claims of "its obvious", or the "references are there". I want specific information of how you know that this is true.

[Skavau]

NoShtSherlock wrote...

This is not a disney game where its all roses and sunshine. I would have thought the rating would have pointed this out. Trying to ignore that humanity has a darkside means that the teen rated or kids rated games are for you.

We all don't live in US or Canada where it has a mature rating.  In the UK the rating is 15 and to many people 15 year old's are not mature adults?

No-one said anybody wanted sunshine and roses and perhaps if you took your head out of the sewer you could smell any kind of roses:D

Au contrare, all you and Ozy appear to have been saying is that you're deeply offended, and wish it to be changed to be more respectful on behalf of that. You have no quantified how, or really why - just repeated ad nauseum your sensitivity.

Modifié par Skavau, 16 février 2010 - 02:38 .

[Notho]

Nautica773 wrote...

There is no story for Mass Effect 2. I believe there's 3 actual plot moments, everything else is extraneous. Then again, ME2 is the middle of a trilogy which is always harder to do without giving the feeling that you're just kicking time until the finale shows up.
They tried to overcome this with deeper character story lines, almost in the vein of Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back. Sadly, since most of the characters are new, you don't have any real development (Tali and Garrus grew rather nicely though) so that sort of fell short.
However, I have to disagree with you on ME2's squadmates. Almost every single one of them is a vast improvement over the 2 dimensional characters of Mass Effect.

I couldn't agree with you more. When I was watching the promos for some of the new characters I was thinking I was going to hate half of them. Turns out, there's really not a squadmate I can't stand. Everyone's story was very well done in my opinion.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Some people really seem to have nothing better to do than finding things that could possibly offend them.

[Spam Eelam]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Some people really seem to have nothing better to do than finding things that could possibly offend them.

this.

When I play a game, "political correctness" is the last kind of crap I'd want to wade through.

[Skavau]

I get offended when other people become offended and insist the world should change to accomadate their sensibilities.

[Aisynia]

yoomazir wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Ozymandias23: Pull the stick out of your ass chica.

yes,so you can put it in your mouth, how does that feel for a change?

Lol that is more offensive than anything in this game.

My point is, the OP is .. unbelievable.

I can promise you I have been through a lot more than "she" ever has (I can go into detail if you want, I don't care, not a big secret), and I think that it's ridiculous that she finds the Jacob loyalty mission offensive, or that the Asari are with males is stupid, or whatnot. It's like she is just LOOKING for something to get pissed off about. Something doesn't fit perfectly into her little tiny world view, so obviously, it's bad and evil, and bioware are is run by sexist, racist homophobes.

*shakes head*

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Aisynia wrote...

yoomazir wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Ozymandias23: Pull the stick out of your ass chica.

yes,so you can put it in your mouth, how does that feel for a change?

Lol that is more offensive than anything in this game.

My point is, the OP is .. unbelievable.

I can promise you I have been through a lot more than "she" ever has (I can go into detail if you want, I don't care, not a big secret), and I think that it's ridiculous that she finds the Jacob loyalty mission offensive, or that the Asari are with males is stupid, or whatnot. It's like she is just LOOKING for something to get pissed off about. Something doesn't fit perfectly into her little tiny world view, so obviously, it's bad and evil, and bioware are is run by sexist, racist homophobes.

*shakes head*

It'd be so much easier to bear if she were just a Troll, but sadly, she seems to be serious.

[Kwonnern]

Ozymandias sees things that there are not.

Ozymandias see things she wants to see, not things that are existing.

Some people can see the most dreadful things (Auschwitz for example) in everything, even if there are nothing related.

If you find dancing Asari to be revolting, maybe one should avoid the ME-franchise and/or mature games in general.

The games/movies for the younger audience are bound to not have any content like this that you find "crass" etc.

You will find "dancing Asari" in most every part of the world these days, in clubs, in the media etc, to avoid it, you would have to really pick your places to visit, Amish County for example.

Oh, and about Jacobs Loyalty-Mission, just because ONE man in a game is treating women in a certain way, does not mean every one is doing it.

As you could see, Jacob was clearly against it.

There are both good and bad people in the world, with different motivations and tastes, and not everyone is in the same mold.

People are different.

Some people see the Cup as half-empty instead of half-full, and the world as more dark than light

Some people see the things they do not like / irritate themselves on, when they're not exactly there.

I cannot see how anyone could have seen any "Auschwitz" in ME2, was it because Jack was a bald female that was experimented on that made you upset? 

Surely, ME2 was a bit darker than ME1 but still nothing that "merits" such a comparison.

Modifié par Kwonnern, 16 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[d12h8]

You know Ozy I really wanted to write a long thought out response to your thread. But I came to my senses and all I can say is I'm sorry that you cannot enjoy Mass Effect 2 for what it is a great game. I hope you lose a little on that conspiaracy and political correctness crap or your going to miss out alot in life.

[MrBubs]

You know what most of this has boiled down to... whether mature themes should be put in video games. Does it really matter. Bioware wanted to make a game that they thought would be fun to play. If it offends you or you don't like how it plays, you know what you can do STOP PLAYING. I know its hard. It would be really awesome if people accepted first amendment rights and stopped whining