465 réponses à ce sujet

[AuraofMana]

Maybe Bible Adventures is more to your liking... seriously, you are too "sensitive" and politically correct. Just go play Barbie or something...

[elucid07]

Moral crusader rants... fun times for all...

[thesovereign]

jlb524 wrote...
It would be OK, if there were positive homosexual relationships shown to balance that out.  There were none.  As I've mentioned, not even the asari were in 'homosexual' relationships as all were with male aliens or had male alien parents.

The asari you give that locket too was with a male human.
There was the male Krogan reciting poetry to the asari.  They were an item.
The asari bartender's 'father' was  a male krogan.
You see an asari shopping with her male salarian father.

When is an asari ever paired with a female?  The Nef/Morinth incident.   But of course, that was hardly a positive portrayl.  Also, there's that asari you talk to as part of Shiala's quest (I can't remember her name).   She's portrayed as a cold-hearted b*tch though and derided b/c she was a pureblood and chose to have pureblood daughters.

It seems like the asari can only be 'straight' and hook up with male aliens of other species, or they can be deviants by hooking up with another from their own species.

Although I would agree that video games tend to be heteronormative and even misogonist I would argue that the Mass Effect IP is only a minor offender. The lack of positive homosexual relationships is a little worrisome and the lack of gender diversity in other species borders on world breaking but ME2 does a good enough job in other areas of the game that I'm willing to give Bioware a pass until ME3 comes out. 

However, I believe your point on the Asari is misinformed. Since the Asari are technically a genderless species (he/she only became necessary when they contacted other species) claiming an Asari-Asari relationship is "homosexual" in the way we deploy the term today is simply incorrect.

If you attempt to complete Shiala's sidequest as a Paragon with high persuade you learn that the merchant in question isn't bitter because she is a pureblood (as other Asari assert) but because her children (and significant other, I believe) were killed in the events of ME1. She takes that anger out on other species as she blames them for their deaths. 

As for Morinth, she isn't "tainted" because of her pureblood lineage but because of a very unfortunate genetic disorder that affects some Asari. It is never states or implied that this disorder to isolated to purebloods. 

In addition not all Asari purebloods are looked down upon, Liara T'Soni is a pureblood with a pretty good reputation. 

I do find it a bit odd that aside from Commander Shepard and Morinth there isn't a female-Asari relationship somewhere in game. I'm hoping this will change in ME3 when Turian, Salarian, Krogan, Hanar, etc females models are added into the game. 

tl;dr
Asari are genderless, claiming that Asari-Asari relationships are homosexual doesn't make sense
ME3 needs Turian, Elcor, etc females and female-Asari couples. 

Just my 2 cents, didn't mean to offend. 

[Rapamaha1]

after reading the books ME2 actually felt more "realistic" than the first game, I dont know why...

ME2 is alot darker than ME1 , you could compare the atmosphere between KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 and you will find out that its pretty similiar to ME1 and 2, maybe some people dont like the darker side of game but I personally prefer it

.

[Erszebeth]

One flaw I felt in the first game was this almost idyllic vision of galactic society as you could see it on the citadel. The darker side was always only implied, giving a really Star Trek feel to Mass Effect. It felt a little bit contrived, lifeless and utopic, and not innovative at all from a sci-fi point of view. Me2 feels a lot more adult in that aspect. But really, it all boils down to what flavour of sci fi you prefer.



Indeed, ME2 main plot is threadbare and yes, rather bad sometimes, but I find I like the overall experience. Finishing the game left me a lot more satisfied than the first one. Probably because the characters are the center of the game this time around. They feel really fleshed out compared to their ME counterparts, and their in game dialog is miles better, too.

[jlb524]

thesovereign wrote...

However, I believe your point on the Asari is misinformed. Since the Asari are technically a genderless species (he/she only became necessary when they contacted other species) claiming an Asari-Asari relationship is "homosexual" in the way we deploy the term today is simply incorrect.

If you attempt to complete Shiala's sidequest as a Paragon with high persuade you learn that the merchant in question isn't bitter because she is a pureblood (as other Asari assert) but because her children (and significant other, I believe) were killed in the events of ME1. She takes that anger out on other species as she blames them for their deaths. 

As for Morinth, she isn't "tainted" because of her pureblood lineage but because of a very unfortunate genetic disorder that affects some Asari. It is never states or implied that this disorder to isolated to purebloods. 

In addition not all Asari purebloods are looked down upon, Liara T'Soni is a pureblood with a pretty good reputation. 

I do find it a bit odd that aside from Commander Shepard and Morinth there isn't a female-Asari relationship somewhere in game. I'm hoping this will change in ME3 when Turian, Salarian, Krogan, Hanar, etc females models are added into the game. 

tl;dr
Asari are genderless, claiming that Asari-Asari relationships are homosexual doesn't make sense
ME3 needs Turian, Elcor, etc females and female-Asari couples. 

Just my 2 cents, didn't mean to offend. 

Well, OK, you can look at this two ways.   Within the ME universe, maybe 'technically' the asari/asari relationship isn't homosexual.   However, real life people playing the game will view it as such.   Also, there are female quarians...why not show an asari/female quarian relationship?

As for Liara...unfortunately, Liara is losing her reputation as a respectable asari.

[Isethien]

aimlessgun wrote...

I agree with some of the bad things. I had to stop talking to Jacob entirely because of the forced flirting. The story had a lot of holes. Dialogue...probably as a whole a bit worse than ME1.

The dark stuff I had no issue with. Bad things happen. It's a rough galaxy. I'm sorry you were turned off by it, no helping that really.

I think you are undervaluing a lot of the good parts though. If you didn't care about vastly superior combat, then you're going to like this game less. But that doesn't make the combat any less of an accomplishment.

I might be experiencing a bug, but for my female character it was impossible to have a 'flirting' dialoge with Jacob... I dont know wether renegade or paragon has anything to do with that....

[Moonbox]

I couldnt talk to Jacob with my femshep without her getting flirty. I hated him for that reason. My femshep is a lesbian until she meets me.

Modifié par Moonbox, 02 février 2010 - 08:42 .

[Daeion]

jlb524 wrote...

I agree with most of what the OP mentioned.  Some of the stuff they included was offensive, especially...

Ozymandias23 wrote...

Samara’s loyalty mission was another that I took issue with, though for very different reasons.  We’re presented with her daughter, Morinth, a sexual predator, whose victims are killed by engaging in sex with her. We’re instructed to go to the apartment where her last victim Nef, a young girl, lived with her mother. The mother
allows us into Nef’s room where we listen to her video diary in order to find the password to allow us into the club where Morinth stalks her victims. The diary entries chart Nef’s first meeting with Morinth and mentions the beginning of an attraction between them. In one of the diary entries Nef comments that Morinth is a girl, that she’s attracted to a girl and asks ‘am I a freak?’

Why would this make her a freak? Why? Intentional or not, there is a suggestion there of homophobia.

This was just unnecessary. I know 'homophobia still exists in the future and blah blah blah', but BW didn't have to depict it in this manner.  Especially considering that poor Nef dies because of her lesbian fling.  I found it quite offensive.

Add to this the fact that all six romances are straight, and all the asari on Ilium seem to only have male aliens for their 'fathers' or were paired with male aliens (though gender isn't supposed to matter to them)....it seems this game couldn't be more heterosexist.

I have to replay this part but I took it more to be a question of if being a human in love with another species made her a freak, I mean humans have been on the galactic scene for less then 50 years if I'm doing math and guessing Capt. Anderson's age correctly.  I didn't even think about homophobia until people brought it up on the boards.  As for all the Asari having male husbands, the asari with the medical contract for Zues Hope had a pureblood relationship, Samara had a pure blood relationship, and  I believe the matriarch bar keeper also had a pure blood relationship.

Modifié par Daeion, 02 février 2010 - 08:55 .

[Daeion]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Dick Sterling wrote...

In ME2 we really dig in to chasing down the Reapers, outside of the controled envirnment. And develop up a team for the big surge in ME3.

At what point in ME2 did we "dig in to chasing down the Reapers"?

As for "develop up a team for the big surge in ME3", mine's all dead.  Now what?

Is your shep dead as well?  Because if so then your story is over.

[Ozymandias23]

Moonbox wrote...

Dick Sterling wrote...

I think it is stupid to put down the ME2 part of the story, when the Shepard/Reaper saga has not concluded yet. When that happens, then pick it apart all you like, but let it resolve first.

It's not stupid.  There wasn't much of a story.  We're not complaining that the 2nd game didn't have a conclusion or that there were loose ends.  We're complaining that the 2nd game's 'story' could have been completed in 3ish hours and that it added nothing to the overall story.  The 2nd part of most trilogies ADD something to the game. This story/game didn't add anything.

'Assembling' a new crew with totally unrelated back stories doesn't really count either, because the first crew was for whatever reason removed.  It seemed to me like the whole story was just a poorly disguised excuse to make a second game. 

This.

I think for me what adds to the pointlessness of assembling a new crew is that every single one of them can die. We've seen how Bioware treated the characters that could die from ME1, so what do you imagine is going to happen to the ME2 squad mates in ME3?

The ME2 squad mates seem nothing more than fluff designed to pad out a very weak story, cannon fodder that will be discarded or given Kaidan/Ash like cameos in ME3. Really, what is the point.

As Sterling said " It seemed to me like the whole story was just a poorly disguised excuse to make a second game."

[Daeion]

jlb524 wrote...

phimseto wrote...

Oh no...the dread heterosexism.

I liked that they had it, because
a. just as there are people who were upset by her wondering that, there are also people today who do have objections to homosexuality and that would speak to their own concerns. It's a blunt, candid question that causes the player to conceretely address the matter on their own terms, for better or worse.

b. it makes Nif's story all the more tragic. This was an important moment in her development (her awakening/discovering of her sexuality) and it was utterly and completely preyed upon by a predator.

 

It would be OK, if there were positive homosexual relationships shown to balance that out.  There were none.  As I've mentioned, not even the asari were in 'homosexual' relationships as all were with male aliens or had male alien parents.

The asari you give that locket too was with a male human.
There was the male Krogan reciting poetry to the asari.  They were an item.
The asari bartender's 'father' was  a male krogan.
You see an asari shopping with her male salarian father.

When is an asari ever paired with a female?  The Nef/Morinth incident.   But of course, that was hardly a positive portrayl.  Also, there's that asari you talk to as part of Shiala's quest (I can't remember her name).   She's portrayed as a cold-hearted b*tch though and derided b/c she was a pureblood and chose to have pureblood daughters.

It seems like the asari can only be 'straight' and hook up with male aliens of other species, or they can be deviants by hooking up with another from their own species.

Because Liara can't hook up with a female shep and didn't kiss me when i first saw her?

She was portrayed as a cold hearted **** because she was so jilted from looseing both her daughters in the attack on the citadel, not because she was a pureblood.  However I know there are the two right by her that are talking about purebloods being a leeser part of society, but that was established in ME when Liara talks about not knowing her father.  Also, my fem shep was hit on by the Asari that I freed from the thorium so I'm failing to see how there aren't options here.  Just because they aren't played up as much doesn't mean they don't exist.

[StreetlightEagle]

It seems that everything wrong with ME1 was fixed in ME2 but many of the amazing things from ME1 were sacrificed in the process. A compromise I don't think I would have made.

[Daeion]

thesovereign wrote...

As for Morinth, she isn't "tainted" because of her pureblood lineage but because of a very unfortunate genetic disorder that affects some Asari. It is never states or implied that this disorder to isolated to purebloods.

Actually I seem to recall Samara mentioning that it only happened with children of pure blood parents.

[Murmillos]

There seemed to be a recurring theme that suggested women were play things, to be used and abused when opportunity permitted. This theme carried through to Jacob’s loyalty mission, a mission that I found disturbing on an emotional level and absolutely sickening.

HOW IN THE **** DID YOU MISS THAT EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF YOUR SQUAD WAS ALSO SICKENED BY THIS FACT TOO? ARE YOU BLIND AND CLUELESS?

[Weskerr]

@thesovereign - Asari aren't genderless, they're mono-gendered. It says so in the codex.

[jlb524]

Daeion wrote...

I have to replay this part but I took it more to be a question of if being a human in love with another species made her a freak, I mean humans have been on the galactic scene for less then 50 years if I'm doing math and guessing Capt. Anderson's age correctly.  I didn't even think about homophobia until people brought it up on the boards.  As for all the Asari having male husbands, the asari with the medical contract for Zues Hope had a pureblood relationship, Samara had a pure blood relationship, and  I believe the matriarch bar keeper also had a pure blood relationship.

Nef mentioned nothing about asari, just another girl. 

I don't think Samara had a pureblood relationship, but was herself a pureblood.  I don't think she ever mentions the 'father' of her children.

The matriarch bar keeper says she's 'even had a relationship with another asari', like it's not as good as the others.

My point isn't that there aren't pureblood relations...just that they are depicted negatively.

[Alien1099]

Well I disagree with the OP.

I think some of you see too much into things that aren't there. ME1's gameplay and combat was EXTREMELY repetitive. My biggest worry in ME1 was if I was going to run out of room because I had so many similar weapons that I wanted to sell for no reason (I finished the game each time with 9,999,999 credits and the only thing worth buying were the spectre) instead of omni-geling items I pickup. Driving around for hours in the MAKO on side quests... to get to the same cookie cutter buildings time after time. The overall story was GREAT but it's not Hamlet or anything and actually is arguably a complete and utter rip off of Star Control 2 & 3.

Gameplay boiled down to me holding down my fire button continuously while I ran through enemies mowing them down while I had Overkill and Immunity on. Eventually I didn't even need overkill because I had heatsinks in my gun and the skills to reduce recoil to nothing to give me the same effect. It was fun at first but got boring after a while. There was no challenge.

Now on to ME2. I thought ME2 was a pretty big improvement. The combat was much more well balanced. No more overkill + immunity running around gunning down the crap out of people. No more continuous autofire with unlimited ammo. You had to take cover and actually plan your attacks. I was constantly running out of money because of the useful upgrades I could buy and was never able to afford every single one. 

I loved the direction the story took. Although the human reaper fight was sorta cheesy but it didn't ruin the whole game for me. I LOVED the new Normandy. It is depressing that I'll never set foot on it. I felt like I was on a REAL ship capable of interstellar travel.

My only real gripes with ME2 was just about everything to do with the Galaxy Map. The first game was perfectly fine in this regard. Having to fly around from planet and scan and mine endlessly and travel to the fuel depot to refuel and buy new probes to travel to another planet to scan and mine endlessly and travel to the fuel depot again....................... Yeah terrible idea.

Sorry you didn't like ME2. I and a LOT of other people were pretty happy with it. You can't please everybody.

[jlb524]

Daeion wrote...

Because Liara can't hook up with a female shep and didn't kiss me when i first saw her?

She was portrayed as a cold hearted **** because she was so jilted from looseing both her daughters in the attack on the citadel, not because she was a pureblood.  However I know there are the two right by her that are talking about purebloods being a leeser part of society, but that was established in ME when Liara talks about not knowing her father.  Also, my fem shep was hit on by the Asari that I freed from the thorium so I'm failing to see how there aren't options here.  Just because they aren't played up as much doesn't mean they don't exist.

I'm not even talking about Liara.

Again, I get the subtle reasons why that asari was acting like a *****, but most people won't though.  Any positive portrayl of homosexual or 'pseudo-homosexual' relations is subtle and easy to miss for most.  Heterosexual relations (and heterosexism in general) are thrown in your face. 

And, I wouldn't call one littlle flirt a decent option.   I think you are grasping at straws now.

[4lice4nn]

The real world sucks. If you want to play a game that does not reflect this, let me direct you to HKO.



You are complaining about how Asari are portrayed... Oppression exists. Have you ever considered the fact that maybe there aren't as many open doors of opportunity for them? All over the REAL world, women are forced into doing less than noble jobs to pay the bills. It's just a fact of life.



It seems to me, after reading your super long rant, that you are looking for a complete escape from reality. Perhaps this game was just not meant for you to play. Like I said, if you want happy, cheerful, UNREALISTIC crap, please head on over to HKO.



Sure, this game is very unrealistic overall (super powers are just one of the many examples I could list), but what gives it that little bit of realism that it does have is the people and your interactions with them. The things a lot of these characters have experienced throughout their lives could be mirror images of some of our own experiences. Bad stuff happens to people. Why are you trying to run away from that?



Besides, it's just a game. If you were so disappointed, you could have turned if off at any time. Methinks you're just here to troll, honestly. If I disliked a game as much as you seem to have disliked this game, I would have said **** it, and walked away a long time ago. >.>

[Atmosfear3]

Obviously the OP did not understand what Bioware meant when they said ME2 was going to be a much "darker" game. You seem to be under the impression that all those atrocities you mentioned have all been abolished in real life society when in reality all those things are still present today. If anything, ME2 relates better to real people than ME1 did which felt a little too go-happy-Disney if you ask me.

[AM50]

Dick Sterling wrote...

AM50 wrote...

@Sterling

Agreed. Not many liked the Empire Strikes Back or Two Towers until their respective final parts were released. I hated ESB until I watched the Trilogy at once when I was older.

Empire Strikes Back is my favorite.

The final chapter of the Shepard story will shed light on alot of ME2. Likely making ME2 more enjoyable for some,  because now the holes have been filled.

ME1 was a setup, an intro into the ME universe, using Citadel space(a controlled envirnment) as the back drop. ME1 identified the antogonist. In ME2 we really dig in to chasing down the Reapers, outside of the controled envirnment. And develop up a team for the big surge in ME3.

ME3 will tie all the loose ends, and we will know the full story, and be able to enjoy it for what it really is. I think the writers have done a great job so far....but they will ultimatly be judged on how it all ends. And thats fair.

Exactly. Which is how a proper trilogy should go. Now that I have seen all 3 of the Star Wars movies, I love ESB. Its my favorite movie of all time. ME2 is gonna seem tiresome and "threadbare". That's how a good trilogy should feel. People love the first cause it is a new and exciting story. The second is the defining of plot, character, and background which can feel boring at times. And the third is the long-awaited conclusion of the story where everything finally meshes together.. That is how a proper trilogy should be.

[MacedonianWolf]

You totally missed everything that Bioware was trying to say.



Asari being portrayed as strippers on Omega? That shows the state of society on the station, just like in real life. Same with Jack's loyalty mission. Atrocities like that happen every day, they're not going to exclude it just because it isn't happy and kid friendly. It comments on the state that the galaxy is in: not everything is perfect, there are atrocities being commited. It's a living breathing galaxy, and for you to draw some of the conclusions that you did is, by the very definition of the word, ignorant.



If you didn't like the game, fine, that's one thing, but I think you missed Bioware's big picture.

[Melisenta]

Sickening plot elements? Child/women abuse? Oh, COME ON! You're in Terminus systems after all! It's not administered by the Council. It's a haven for all sorts of illegal activities, slavery, piracy and what not. It's supposed to be dark and nasty at times, as opposed to the Council controlled space we see in ME1.

[Fredgtrer]

How many people who play this game are homosexual or bi? How many people are heterosexual? Why is it bad that there are mostly heterosexual couples in this game?