465 réponses à ce sujet

[Lmaoboat]

Sounds like someone could use the heavy skin wave upgrade.

[RandomPot322]

Ozymandias23 wrote...


Add to this the portrayal of women in Mass Effect 2 as play things, objects to be used and abused when opportunity permits and the more subtle negative portrayal of homosexuality and I find myself playing a game that treats serious issues in a manner I find unpalatable. In my opinion this is a game with practically no plot that has cynically used real life issues to pad a weak story and to artificially construct a dark, gritty environment for financial gain.

Needless to say all of the above is my opinion, the impressions I formed when playing Mass Effect 2.

Only at certain points are they, and displayed in that way for a reason, to invoke an emotional response from the player, to make the perpetrator as evil. (The Jacob Mission)
The Asari as strippers is different. But you seem to have no problem with the prostitute in ME1, or the strippers in ME1, so yeah.
Also And your negative view in the game is done mostly by a SINGLE person. So your point is that a single person in the game has a negative look on homosexuality, therefore the creators must have that look. Hell, the creators that have basically had homosexual romances in a lot of their games. So sorry that they actually protray actual people with actual varying degrees of beliefs. Mean it's like the person isn't just a carbon copy of someone else.
But you know, Liberals like you often make me feel very dirty being associated with Liberalism.

[Azazel005]

I am sorry you found it so unsuitable, which I suppose is the crux of the issue. I disagree that the presentation of the issues discussed is offensive, rather you feel there placement in a video game or at least this video game innappropriate.



Looking at commander Jacob's loyalty mission as you discussed, it is supposed to be deeply disturbing and confronting. It's ABHORRENT, and yes it does have correlations to certain real world "camps". It's presentation isn't the problem though, it's a morbid situation it sent shivers down my spine and made it hard for me not to just have my character draw my gun and shoot him down. Which of course was the intention. Let's be honest it's difficult to provoke that depth in any form of media, Biowares decision to include such a situation is somehting you clearly disagree with, but the presentation? I defy anyone not to feel horrifed at the actions perpetrated there.



Realistically all the sames themese from the original are flowing on, we are discussing the morals of genocide, progressing forward at the means and purposes and moral dilemmas in such actions. The plot in unto itself is no weaker nor stronger then the original that I can see, it's progression is slightly different more staggered, I see that point but lets be honest neither plot is a staggering work of narrative brilliance.

[Sharn01]

I agree with much of your post OP, mostly the first half.

The story was weak, the character's with the exception of Tali and Garrus were weak, the forced flirting with Jacob made me so angry I refused to talk to him unless it was mission oriented, and the final battle was lame, the the events through the base that led to it where good.

I found the combat even more repetitive then ME1 despite its praise, move to crate, shoot, move to next crate shoot, powers are no longer fun because they all share the same cooldown so you never mix them up, just use what ever is best, and that is usually the same power over and over again with only a few exception's.

If it was not for the greatness of the ME universe in general I probably would not have liked this game as much, but I did enjoy it, not as much as the origonal, but enough to play it a few times again to see a few different things.

I will disagree with your complaint's against the grittiness of the game. It was over done but not bad, and I think some of it fell flat in what was suppose to be an attempt to make you hate Cerberus even more, but was so poorly written it did not tie together well, or people missed it. I will agree that Jacob's loyalty mission was kind of uncalled for, but that was not because of the content, but once again poor writing, people should have been much angrier and there should have been a lot of emotion, there also should have been evidence of people who died defying his father, instead of the women just laying down to be playthings from the get go and every man having no complaints about it.



To sum it all up ME2 thrives on the success of its predacessor, its a good game that lacked in the quality of the origonal and this upsets many people. There are some who refuse to accept it is lacking, and I can see where they are coming from, I too have rose colored glasses for the game, and it has taken a while for it to sink in that it is not nearly as good as the first. The only thing that it truly did better then the origonal is the voice acting which was superb, it fails to meet or exceed the origonal in every other aspect, it may have improved on some area's, like combat, but fell short in other combat area's, so it ends up being a wash.

[Lmaoboat]

The OP would probably like the game a lot better if it was made by PBS. Instead of shooting people, you take your electric car down to the Starbucks and drink fair-trade Chai tea out of a recycled paper cup and talk about diversity and political correctness.

[RandomPot322]

Lmaoboat wrote...

The OP would probably like the game a lot better if it was made by PBS. Instead of shooting people, you take your electric car down to the Starbucks and drink fair-trade Chai tea out of a recycled paper cup and talk about diversity and political correctness.

Now that I couldn't agree with more.

[DJ Doc]

Daniel Ryba wrote...

-snip-
 I suppose comparing ME1 to ME2 is like comparing the original Alien to Alien: Resurrection

Maket that Alien vs. Aliens



I can see how people who, from the goodness of there hearts, played ME1 as pure Paragons (multible times)
do have a problem with ME2.

It's the fallen Hero syndrom you did good all your life than something happens and all of a sudden you end up on the wrong side of town and all your dogooder friends don't give a f*ck about you anymore.

ME2 would be a great interactive movie if that darn timesink called resource scanning wouldn't be but you gotta get that 60+ hours of gameplay for the reviews somehow...

[Sailears]

Barhador wrote...

In my opinion Mass Effect 1 is a
benchmark for interactive story-telling. Coupled with great soundtracks
and voice acting, ME1 gives the most addictive atmosphere in ANY game
I've played in the last couple of years.

Fixed:P

gr00grams wrote...

It was TL:DR, but all I can say is that ME1's story is vastly, and I mean vastly superior.

The convo's were great, but the overall main story was not on the scale of the first.
Other things were better, etc, but just talking pure story, no it definitely does not live up to the first, sorry Bioware.

This is sans romances, as in both they are 'okay' nothing special.
Just the main plot.

The events and revelations on Ilos in ME1 alone, just the dialogue with the prothean VI trump all of ME2's main plot.

Hit the nail on the head.

[RandomPot322]

Curunen wrote...

Barhador wrote...

In my opinion Mass Effect 1 is a
benchmark for interactive story-telling. Coupled with great soundtracks
and voice acting, ME1 gives the most addictive atmosphere in ANY game
I've played in the last couple of years.

Fixed:P

So you ARE an ****.
Good to know.

[Sailears]

Voicing my opinion makes me an ****?

I'm not insulting anyone am I?

[RandomPot322]

Curunen wrote...

Voicing my opinion makes me an ****?
I'm not insulting anyone am I?

Well, you didn't voice your opinion.
You basically corrected someone elses to reflect yours. So you an ****.
See, doing that cheeky little Fixed isn't cute, or clever, it's dickish. So yeah. If you had said "ME1 is better then ME2 for the following reasons" you're not an ass. Changing what other people wrote to fit your view makes you an ass.

[ReplicantZero]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

I play games for entertainment, for enjoyment.  Mass Effect 1 was a game I returned to time and time again for the sheer pleasure of playing it. In spite of its flaws, it was a lot of fun, had some fantastic characters, an uplifting story that was developed throughout the game and an outstanding final mission. Several parts always stood out for me. The speech the council gives as shepard is made a Spectre. Shepard’s speech to the crew as she takes control of the Normandy. The reveal on Virmire as Shepard finally has the chance to speak with Sovereign. Ilos, Vigil and fighting our way back to the Citadel for the race through the maintenance ducts to reach Saren in time. 

The story was exceptional in my opinion. Each main mission introduced another key part of the plot, another clue revealing Saren’s motivations and driving the story forward. The story rose to a crescendo as Shepard and her
team mates went though the Mu Relay, fought their way through Ilos, discovered Vigil and risked everything to return to the Citadel for the final confrontation with Saren, his Geth and Sovereign. I remember the first time I
completed Mass Effect 1, sitting with tears in my eyes as the human fleet saved the destiny ascension. 

<snip>


The ‘story’ of Mass Effect 2 was unbelievably poor and I find it impossible to believe the same person wrote both games.

There seemed to be no narrative structure to the game. The plot, such as it was, was utterly contrived, unconvincing and frankly embarrassingly bad in places.  I have never played a Bioware game that had such a weak, threadbare story, such stilted dialogue or borrowed so heavily from other sources such as Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Terminator etc. The final battle was absurd. I won’t spoil it for anyone who hasn’t played the entire game; all I will say is that a cameo from Governor Schwarzenegger would not have been out of place. It was ridiculous and utterly inferior to the end game of Mass Effect 1 in every possible way.

Having Shepard die, be rebuilt and be upgraded throughout the game with more and more synthetic parts was pointless and only served as a flimsy attempt to force the player to accept working with Cerberus. It didn’t work on any level in my opinion. The two year gap was a transparent excuse to off load the original squad mates whose personalities did not fit into the type of game Bioware wanted to make. This might have worked better if they had been replaced by characters with equal charisma. They were not, in my opinion, with the only exception being Legion and EDI.

Though I don't agree with the OP that BW 'went too far' re the darker plot details in ME2, I did find that ME2's plot and dialogue failed to grab me on an emotional level in the same way that ME1 did.

There doesn't seem to be anything matching the inspiration of Shepard's (paragon) speech when first taking command of the Normandy 1 or Captain Kirrahe's speech on Virmire. Have also noticed that Shepard's paragon responses seem irritatingly naive considering all she's been through - didn't notice this so much in ME1.

The feeling of the awful, cold inevitability of the Reaper threat built up in ME1 also seems to be gone; not because one was destroyed at Citadel, but because they seem to now include some role for organic species in their agenda (the Collectors, and possibly humanity), rather than just annihilating all. I think it was feeling of the Reapers being part of some eternal and terrible cosmic cycle, where organic life was merely an irrelevance, that was so chilling in ME1.

That said, do feel that the mechanics of the game have improved so vastly in ME2 , particularly combat, weapons and upgrades, that I am going to find it hard going back to ME1 to prep my 2nd Shepard for importing to ME2.

Modifié par ReplicantZero, 03 février 2010 - 03:32 .

[jlb524]

Wow, people are really missing the OP's point. It's clear that the OP isn't opposed to mature themes and isn't upset that Bioware wanted to show us the darker parts of the galaxy. The OP is just unhappy with the way Bioware did it. Their manner of presenting these things was tasteless and sometimes even offensive. That's the point the OP is making.

[RandomPot322]

ReplicantZero wrote...

Though I don't agree with the OP that BW 'went too far' re the darker plot details in ME2, I did find that ME2's plot and dialogue failed to grab me on an emotional level in the same way that ME1 did.

There doesn't seem to be anything matching the inspiration of Shepard's (paragon) speech when first taking command of the Normandy 1 or Captain Kilrahe's speech on Virmire. Have also noticed that Shepard's paragon responses seem irritatingly naive considering all she's been through - didn't notice this so much in ME1.

The feeling of the awful, cold inevitability of the Reaper threat built up in ME1 also seems to be gone; not because one was destroyed at Citadel, but because they seem to now include some role for organic species in their agenda (the Collectors, and possibly humanity), rather than just annihilating all. I think it was feeling of the Reapers being part of some eternal and terrible cosmic cycle, where organic life was merely an irrelevance, that was so chilling in ME1.

That said, do feel that the mechanics of the game have improved so vastly in ME2 , particularly combat, weapons and upgrades, that I am going to find it hard going back to ME1 to prep my 2nd Shepard for importing to ME2.

To point out, Vigil did say in ME1 that they did use Organics as they needed.
Hell, Keepers were clearly organics being used the Reapers.

[Lmaoboat]

jlb524 wrote...

Wow, people are really missing the OP's point. It's clear that the OP isn't opposed to mature themes and isn't upset that Bioware wanted to show us the darker parts of the galaxy. The OP is just unhappy with the way Bioware did it. Their manner of presenting these things was tasteless and sometimes even offensive. That's the point the OP is making.

It's offensive maybe if you've got the spine of a Hanar.

[JarodKane]

haha I think Bioware did their job perfect if jacob's mission got to you so bad that you had to get on THEIR website and post a full ****in story dedicated to how the story unnerved you or pissed you off...If a game's story can do that than that's good writing, honestly. Take an actor who usually acts good parts if he can act a bad character and make you sincerely hate that person than that's a good actor all around be it him playing a good or bad character.



Now ME2, i won't lie had it's parts that were flat out sexual but that's in the open world. Clubs, strip bars, anywhere with alcohol and the opposite sex is gonna be rather raw about things.



BRAVO BIOWARE, for writing a story good enough to cause a person to write a novel to you about how the game had unnerved them.

[RandomPot322]

jlb524 wrote...

Wow, people are really missing the OP's point. It's clear that the OP isn't opposed to mature themes and isn't upset that Bioware wanted to show us the darker parts of the galaxy. The OP is just unhappy with the way Bioware did it. Their manner of presenting these things was tasteless and sometimes even offensive. That's the point the OP is making.

Well, the problem is what is tasteless and offensive is highly dependent on the viewer, so it's extremely subjective. Some people weren't offended, didn't find it tasteless. Since it is a subjective matter, the OP can't state it as objective fact as to being tasteless.

[cerberus1701]

gr00grams wrote...

It was TL:DR, but all I can say is that ME1's story is vastly, and I mean vastly superior.

No. It's just as trite and cliche as ME.

[jlb524]

RandomPot322 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Wow, people are really missing the OP's point. It's clear that the OP isn't opposed to mature themes and isn't upset that Bioware wanted to show us the darker parts of the galaxy. The OP is just unhappy with the way Bioware did it. Their manner of presenting these things was tasteless and sometimes even offensive. That's the point the OP is making.

Well, the problem is what is tasteless and offensive is highly dependent on the viewer, so it's extremely subjective. Some people weren't offended, didn't find it tasteless. Since it is a subjective matter, the OP can't state it as objective fact as to being tasteless.

Well, the OP did say 'In my opinion' so....

[Sailears]

RandomPot322 wrote...

Curunen wrote...

Voicing my opinion makes me an ****?
I'm not insulting anyone am I?

Well, you didn't voice your opinion.
You basically corrected someone elses to reflect yours. So you an ****.
See, doing that cheeky little Fixed isn't cute, or clever, it's dickish. So yeah. If you had said "ME1 is better then ME2 for the following reasons" you're not an ass. Changing what other people wrote to fit your view makes you an ass.

Ok, let me clear this up.
I thought I was being a little humorous.
I liked how that person had worded their opinion, so honestly I'm hardly deriding it.
I apologise if I seem like a **** to you, but I don't come on message boards trying to provoke conflict.

[RandomPot322]

jlb524 wrote...

RandomPot322 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Wow, people are really missing the OP's point. It's clear that the OP isn't opposed to mature themes and isn't upset that Bioware wanted to show us the darker parts of the galaxy. The OP is just unhappy with the way Bioware did it. Their manner of presenting these things was tasteless and sometimes even offensive. That's the point the OP is making.

Well, the problem is what is tasteless and offensive is highly dependent on the viewer, so it's extremely subjective. Some people weren't offended, didn't find it tasteless. Since it is a subjective matter, the OP can't state it as objective fact as to being tasteless.

Well, the OP did say 'In my opinion' so....

I see, magic words that let me shove my opinion as more important than yours. It doesn't change that the OP is trying to display highly subjective beliefs into an objective light.

[RandomPot322]

Curunen wrote...

RandomPot322 wrote...

Curunen wrote...

Voicing my opinion makes me an ****?
I'm not insulting anyone am I?

Well, you didn't voice your opinion.
You basically corrected someone elses to reflect yours. So you an ****.
See, doing that cheeky little Fixed isn't cute, or clever, it's dickish. So yeah. If you had said "ME1 is better then ME2 for the following reasons" you're not an ass. Changing what other people wrote to fit your view makes you an ass.

Ok, let me clear this up.
I thought I was being a little humorous.
I liked how that person had worded their opinion, so honestly I'm hardly deriding it.
I apologise if I seem like a **** to you, but I don't come on message boards trying to provoke conflict.

Yes, humorous, cause i haven't seen that fixed joke done before. Also it certainly doesn't imply that "my opinion is better", oh know, not at all. Yeah, you liked how they worded it, except that it was not about something you liked. So you know, instead of just taking the wording and use it yourself, you quote them, saying what you like. See how that's a little dickish?

[cerberus1701]

Uh-oh. There are bad people in the galaxy. Stop the presses.

Everything the OP takes issue with happens here.

And you think the galaxy as a whole should be immune.

Or is it more that you just don't wanna be reminded of it?

Modifié par cerberus1701, 03 février 2010 - 03:44 .

[blazer619]

Well first thing i have to say is i have never posted on a forum before, i just get great enjoyment out of the arguments between people but the OP arguments frustrated me so i have to join in. I know all of this has been covered by people but i need to say it to get it off my chest



Firstly, stop saying that the asari are portrayed as "objects" because they are pole dancers or sexual predators (Morinth)..... Asari do not have males or females like we humans do in the ME universe. Its explained frequently in both ME1 and ME2 and also the books. And they also do not engage in sexual intercourse so your argument about Morinth is just a big fail. Asari and their mates undergo a mind meld where they share each others experiences, memories and feelings. Morinth did the same thing but forced it on her victims and as she was extremely powerful she overpowered her victims nervous system and caused their brain to haemorrhage. I fail to see how a mind meld makes someone a sexual predator seeing as they didn't engage in sexual intercourse. As for their position in the galaxy... Asari are dominant. They are one of the most advanced races, they have the strongest biotics, their military force is feared around the galaxy and they live for ages. Seems to me that bioware favour these "female" aliens heavily. Oh and one more thing about this, when Nef asks herself "am i a freak" Like many other people have said it's most likely because she is attracted to another race. Humans are still relatively new to the galaxy so the idea of inter-species mating is still a little hazy im sure. Trust people like you to jump to conclusions and immediately assume its a cheap shot at homosexuals. I work with a homosexual, he is a good friend of mine and when i experienced that part of ME2 i didn't once think that bioware was homophobic.



My second response is to you bagging the story line. With all stories that are divided into three parts the second is usually always less engaging than the first and third. ME2 serves its purpose as a bridge between the frist and third games and imo it did it well. As for the characters... you complain that there are too many of them.... but put things in perspective. Shepard is going up against the Reapers, alot of Reapers. Im pretty sure he would need a fairly large team backing him up. Seems a litle unrealistic having 6 people going up against thousands of super evolved machines dont you think?



And finally your whole rant about the dark and disturbing parts of the game... seriously if you think thats bad go watch Clockwork Orange. One of the most controversial movies evern made yet it made a generation question the things they believe in. As far as video games go mass effect is the closet thing to a movie/book i have ever come across so i applaud the writers for bringing in some controversial aspects to the game because it engages the players and helps immerse them into the ME universe which is exactly what the developers want, for people to think they are acutally in the game.



You're entitled to your own opinion but seriously some of your arguments were just weak

[pmalygris]

well I am sorry that you didn't enjoy this game. I imported my Paragon over from ME1 and have been completely riveted by the story, the quests, the fights and the graphics.

Beauty as they say, is in the eyes of the beholder.

This game already has me in a qaundry. I really want to play ME3 but at the same time, I don't want these characters to end. I really enjoyed the first romance between Shepard and the Asari Justicar, the frisson was there, but the code demanded that we did not and could not go further. 

 I think the writing was really well done but again I didnt and wasnt looking for comparison to other sci fi stories, the great themes or classic literature. I am just enjoying this great story and game and loving the superb acting, directing and art.

Maly