76 réponses à ce sujet

[konfeta]

I tried out the AoE reave, which probably explains it then.

[SonsofNorthWind]

tetracycloide wrote...

Validating the class with a build approach is largely irrelevant to crafting a build that works, though. Sure, the Sentinel get's 15% more power damage from tech armor and has overload for shields but 'Sentinel' isn't an answer to the question 'what's a quality adept build.'

Oh, minor note that may be relevant.  All of my advice is for Insanity difficulty.

My point was that the answer to the topic "quality adept builds?" may most aptly be answered "no."  After that, there are superior and inferior versions of the adept, but calling any of them "quality" is pushing it. 

I do believe the build you listed is the best that can be done with the current adept in ME2, but it's inferior to the virtually identical Sentinel build for reasons listed above.  

Modifié par SonsofNorthWind, 02 février 2010 - 10:17 .

[lockerlocke]

It'd be nice if Bioware patched the game to allow singularity to strip away shielding.

[Trefecka]

I'm curious why so many people took reave as their bonus skill. While yes, it does allow the very damaging reave + warp combo....it still doesn't solve (what I perceive anyways) the biggest weakness of the adept: the inability to deal with shields.



On Insanity, virtually all mercenaries that you run across have shields (except the occasional vanguard). Thus, without a power to strip shields the adept is regulated to chilling around until your teammates yank the shields off for you. While yes with the appropriate teammates you can strip off the shields of 2 enemies every 4.8-6 seconds, it would go much faster if you assisted in the process.



Thus, IMO at least every adept should grab energy drain as the bonus skill. Defense can handled with smart use of cover and the anti-shield versatility outstrips the offensive boost offered by reave.

[Graunt]

Kronner wrote...

max Warp and Reave = best biotic abilities in the game.

By necessity, not because it's fun.

I'm on hardcore. I guess I might need to switch to normal to get more enjoyment out of this playthrough.

Or just change one setting in the INI file if you're playing it on the PC.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 10:40 .

[konfeta]

the biggest weakness of the adept: the inability to deal with shields.

Tempest SMG is the answer to shields.

[Graunt]

konfeta wrote...

the biggest weakness of the adept: the inability to deal with shields.

Tempest SMG is the answer to shields.

Changing into an Infiltrator and headshotting with disruptor ammo is the answer you were looking for.  There are "quality" Adept builds for Insanity on the PC, but the better builds require Miranda or Thane to always be with you.  For the "default" game...yeah, it's just the boring Reave/Warp setup.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 10:46 .

[Trefecka]

I find tempest to be too inaccurate at the distance I prefer to fight at, plus it leaves you too vunerable to return fire. Safer to just toss a quick energy drain....since it also recharges you own shield you usually end up not losing any shields at all.

[Taiko Roshi]

The best Adept build is an assault rifle. Didn't you hear, ME 2 is a shooter, while your waiting to deploy that warp my Infiltrator has cleared the room and moved on...

I was planning on making an adept but it seems sentinel might be the better choice.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 02 février 2010 - 11:08 .

[konfeta]

Does Energy drain benefit from Adept's power cooldown reduction talents? Or only from the Tech Power Cooldown Reduction upgrade?



On that note, what's the deal with 3 separate bonus abilities that give you the exact same shield boost?

[SsevenN]

davidshooter wrote...

I'm about 3/4 through my first playthru with an Adept. I've reallocated points a few times to get what for me was the best build. I'm flipping back and forth between Vet-hardcore-insanity often playing the same sequence at different difficulty levels to compare.

For me the best build so far has been

Heavy warp
Heavy singularity (wide would be fine too)
Nemesis
Warp Ammo - bonus
Sniper Rifle - bonus

Pull, Shockwave and Throw are all not very effective on the higher difficulties so take your pick.

That is very close to my current Adept build on insanity.

It's about as good as it gets.

(I have assult rifle instead of sniper, but the sniper rifle fits the build better.)

[Taiko Roshi]

konfeta wrote...

Does Energy drain benefit from Adept's power cooldown reduction talents? Or only from the Tech Power Cooldown Reduction upgrade?

On that note, what's the deal with 3 separate bonus abilities that give you the exact same shield boost?

what part of this game is a third person shooter, not a RPG, do you not understand 

[SsevenN]

konfeta wrote...



On that note, what's the deal with 3 separate bonus abilities that give you the exact same shield boost?

I know, it's so freakin lazy of them I want to pull my hair out.

[konfeta]

Pull is probably the best of those 3. It's disable is the longest.

[grumpymooselion]

JoshRose1 wrote...

 I'm on my second playthrough. Using an adept this time. They were amazing in ME1, but since the powers do very little against shields or armor, I am having a hard time.

What skills did you invest in to deal with this problem? Or do you specifically rely on teammates who are good at taking down shields?

Since I am on playthrough 2, I got to choose ammo piercing armor, which helps a bit.. but not enough.

You're going to be reduced to Warp spamming a lot of the time if you're on insanity. When you're able to get the Bonus powers, pick up Reave because that fills in any gap Warp doesn't cover. You'll end up using Warp and Reave and pretty much ignoring anything else. While powers such as Singularity and Shockwave will still have minimal effect on enemies with defenses up . . . it's not going to be worth it to use them since Warp or Reave would have been better choices (depending on the defense type).

The issue with Warp and Reave spamming is that niether are all that fun. Reave does work nicely in allowing detonations, but otherwise they're not visually fun and in actual use they aren't all that fun either. In fact it gets fairly boring. It's a shame a lot of the truly fun biotic powers can't really be used until enemy defenses are done, mostly because when enemy defenses are down they're pretty much dead anyways.

ME1 had its issues, and certainly needed tweaks in biotics here and there, but the biotics were fun to use. In ME2 they can still be fun to use, but you just aren't going to see that as more and more of your enemies have at least one layer of defense, and many have more than one - while others in fact can randomly regen their defenses.

Let us not ignore that enemy biotics don't seem to suffer near as extreme penalties as 'your' biotics. One of them will throw Shockwaves at you that will completely strip your shields (and apparently they will even do this on casual mode). Others will try and use throw or other powers, which, if your shield is up, won't kill you or take down your shield - but do significant damage to your shield, and stutter your movement far more than say . . . your singularity or shockwave would do to a shielded opponent - say nothing of how ineffective pull or throw are on shielded opponents.

The usefulness of Reave really doesn't do anything but outline just how sad it is that some of these fun sounding powers . . . just aren't as useful as Reave. Slam sounds like a great biotic power, but in the end, the way enemy defenses work, leave Reave as being the only real option. Sure, you can take slam - but would it be worth the point investment? How often would you even get to use it? It's sad, because some of the bonus biotics sound fun.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 02 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[Graunt]

Janan Pacha wrote...

JoshRose1 wrote...

 I'm on my second playthrough. Using an adept this time. They were amazing in ME1, but since the powers do very little against shields or armor, I am having a hard time.

What skills did you invest in to deal with this problem? Or do you specifically rely on teammates who are good at taking down shields?

Since I am on playthrough 2, I got to choose ammo piercing armor, which helps a bit.. but not enough.

You're going to be reduced to Warp spamming a lot of the time if you're on insanity. When you're able to get the Bonus powers, pick up Reave because that fills in any gap Warp doesn't cover. You'll end up using Warp and Reave and pretty much ignoring anything else. While powers such as Singularity and Shockwave will still have minimal effect on enemies with defenses up . . . it's not going to be worth it to use them since Warp or Reave would have been better choices (depending on the defense type).

The issue with Warp and Reave spamming is that niether are all that fun. Reave does work nicely in allowing detonations, but otherwise they're not visually fun and in actual use they aren't all that fun either. In fact it gets fairly boring. It's a shame a lot of the truly fun biotic powers can't really be used until enemy defenses are done, mostly because when enemy defenses are down they're pretty much dead anyways.

ME1 had its issues, and certainly needed tweaks in biotics here and there, but the biotics were fun to use. In ME2 they can still be fun to use, but you just aren't going to see that as more and more of your enemies have at least one layer of defense, and many have more than one - while others in fact can randomly regen their defenses.

Let us not ignore that enemy biotics don't seem to suffer near as extreme penalties as 'your' biotics. One of them will throw Shockwaves at you that will completely strip your shields (and apparently they will even do this on casual mode). Others will try and use throw or other powers, which, if your shield is up, won't kill you or take down your shield - but do significant damage to your shield, and stutter your movement far more than say . . . your singularity or shockwave would do to a shielded opponent - say nothing of how ineffective pull or throw are on shielded opponents.

The usefulness of Reave really doesn't do anything but outline just how sad it is that some of these fun sounding powers . . . just aren't as useful as Reave. Slam sounds like a great biotic power, but in the end, the way enemy defenses work, leave Reave as being the only real option. Sure, you can take slam - but would it be worth the point investment? How often would you even get to use it? It's sad, because some of the bonus biotics sound fun.

PC players can fix the issue with biotics not working on enemies with any kind of defense up.  And if you play it like that, Slam at rank 4 becomes pretty awesome with the second option.  It's like a Stasis that ended up doing damage and everyone can still hit it.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 11:23 .

[tetracycloide]

Trefecka wrote...
Thus, IMO at least every adept should grab energy drain as the bonus skill. Defense can handled with smart use of cover and the anti-shield versatility outstrips the offensive boost offered by reave.

Warp, singularity, and, as far as i know, reave all deal damage to shields even if they appear to be orange and say 'target is affected by shields' in the HuD.  Energy drain is the ideal choice when every target has shields and shields only but when in mixed company, some with some with other protection, or against targets that have shields and armor energy drain does nothing after the shields are all down while reave is useful against everything.

[grumpymooselion]

Graunt wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...

JoshRose1 wrote...

 I'm on my second playthrough. Using an adept this time. They were amazing in ME1, but since the powers do very little against shields or armor, I am having a hard time.

What skills did you invest in to deal with this problem? Or do you specifically rely on teammates who are good at taking down shields?

Since I am on playthrough 2, I got to choose ammo piercing armor, which helps a bit.. but not enough.

You're going to be reduced to Warp spamming a lot of the time if you're on insanity. When you're able to get the Bonus powers, pick up Reave because that fills in any gap Warp doesn't cover. You'll end up using Warp and Reave and pretty much ignoring anything else. While powers such as Singularity and Shockwave will still have minimal effect on enemies with defenses up . . . it's not going to be worth it to use them since Warp or Reave would have been better choices (depending on the defense type).

The issue with Warp and Reave spamming is that niether are all that fun. Reave does work nicely in allowing detonations, but otherwise they're not visually fun and in actual use they aren't all that fun either. In fact it gets fairly boring. It's a shame a lot of the truly fun biotic powers can't really be used until enemy defenses are done, mostly because when enemy defenses are down they're pretty much dead anyways.

ME1 had its issues, and certainly needed tweaks in biotics here and there, but the biotics were fun to use. In ME2 they can still be fun to use, but you just aren't going to see that as more and more of your enemies have at least one layer of defense, and many have more than one - while others in fact can randomly regen their defenses.

Let us not ignore that enemy biotics don't seem to suffer near as extreme penalties as 'your' biotics. One of them will throw Shockwaves at you that will completely strip your shields (and apparently they will even do this on casual mode). Others will try and use throw or other powers, which, if your shield is up, won't kill you or take down your shield - but do significant damage to your shield, and stutter your movement far more than say . . . your singularity or shockwave would do to a shielded opponent - say nothing of how ineffective pull or throw are on shielded opponents.

The usefulness of Reave really doesn't do anything but outline just how sad it is that some of these fun sounding powers . . . just aren't as useful as Reave. Slam sounds like a great biotic power, but in the end, the way enemy defenses work, leave Reave as being the only real option. Sure, you can take slam - but would it be worth the point investment? How often would you even get to use it? It's sad, because some of the bonus biotics sound fun.

PC players can fix the issue with biotics not working on enemies with any kind of defense up.

And?

I'm sorry, but that's a very unbalanced mode of play. Brining up legitimate issues with a system should not be met with a counter that stips a system away entirely. Even ME1 had a resist system, which was a better idea than this current defenses=some biotics won't work system. Sure the resist system may have needed tweaked, but even that is infinitely better than no system at all.

There are other issues at hand as well, like all the cooldowns being linked (yes I realize there are ways to remove the shared cooldown - but it leaves all powers with 'no' cooldown, instead of something sensible like each power being on its own cooldown . . .).

[HaloKT]

konfeta wrote...

Does Energy drain benefit from Adept's power cooldown reduction talents? Or only from the Tech Power Cooldown Reduction upgrade?

On that note, what's the deal with 3 separate bonus abilities that give you the exact same shield boost?

It's specifications. Barrier is a biotic skill, Geth Shielding is a tech skill. AFAIK they're affected by talents that improve tech/biotic abilities. Therefore you should take the one your class gets more mileage out of. E.g. Barrier over Geth Shielding for Adepts, or Geth Shielding over Barrier for Engineers. The third one - IIRC - isn't modified by talents and therefore inferior to Geth Shields or Barrier on tech/biotic classes.

As to Energy Drain... I've read it's pretty weak, and I've never tried it out myself. Although seeing as it's Tali's skill, I'd guess it will only benefit from tech upgrades/talents, not biotic ones.

[Graunt]

Janan Pacha wrote...
And?

I'm sorry, but that's a very unbalanced mode of play. Brining up legitimate issues with a system should not be met with a counter that stips a system away entirely. Even ME1 had a resist system, which was a better idea than this current defenses=some biotics won't work system. Sure the resist system may have needed tweaked, but even that is infinitely better than no system at all.

There are other issues at hand as well, like all the cooldowns being linked (yes I realize there are ways to remove the shared cooldown - but it leaves all powers with 'no' cooldown, instead of something sensible like each power being on its own cooldown . . .).

Here's the thing, most people that hate the current biotic system really enjoyed using them from the first game.  And guess what? PC players can change the game to play like that instead of complaining about how it doesn't.  Or are you one of those people that think it's "cheating" but would still cry for Bioware to make a patch that does exactly the same thing?

And I can't remember the last time any Lift, Throw, Stasis or Singularity was resisted by an enemy on Insanity in the original game.  What worked for players wasn't always applicable to NPCs.  More than likely you're just imagining some kind of "balance" that wasn't even present in the first game when it came to player abilities.  Try not confusing what I said with "there was no biotic resist stat" in the first game either.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 11:35 .

[tetracycloide]

Graunt wrote...
Or are you one of those people that think it's "cheating" but would still cry for Bioware to make a patch that does exactly the same thing?

Why are you so quick to discount the possibility of a third group that just wants singularity to be as gameplay defining for an adept as tactical cloak, adrenalin rush, tech armor, and charge are for the other classes?

[SonsofNorthWind]

Trefecka wrote...

I'm curious why so many people took reave as their bonus skill. While yes, it does allow the very damaging reave + warp combo....it still doesn't solve (what I perceive anyways) the biggest weakness of the adept: the inability to deal with shields.

On Insanity, virtually all mercenaries that you run across have shields (except the occasional vanguard). Thus, without a power to strip shields the adept is regulated to chilling around until your teammates yank the shields off for you. While yes with the appropriate teammates you can strip off the shields of 2 enemies every 4.8-6 seconds, it would go much faster if you assisted in the process.

Thus, IMO at least every adept should grab energy drain as the bonus skill. Defense can handled with smart use of cover and the anti-shield versatility outstrips the offensive boost offered by reave.

At least on the Xbox, Reave actually works pretty well on shields.  I realize it says its ineffective, but on Hardcore anyways it can strip full shields off a target.

[SonsofNorthWind]

Trefecka wrote...

I'm curious why so many people took reave as their bonus skill. While yes, it does allow the very damaging reave + warp combo....it still doesn't solve (what I perceive anyways) the biggest weakness of the adept: the inability to deal with shields.

On Insanity, virtually all mercenaries that you run across have shields (except the occasional vanguard). Thus, without a power to strip shields the adept is regulated to chilling around until your teammates yank the shields off for you. While yes with the appropriate teammates you can strip off the shields of 2 enemies every 4.8-6 seconds, it would go much faster if you assisted in the process.

Thus, IMO at least every adept should grab energy drain as the bonus skill. Defense can handled with smart use of cover and the anti-shield versatility outstrips the offensive boost offered by reave.

At least on the Xbox, Reave actually works pretty well on shields.  I realize it says its ineffective, but on Hardcore anyways it can strip full shields off a target.

[Permutation]

Graunt wrote...

PC players can fix the issue with biotics not working on enemies with any kind of defense up.

How? Is this a tweak of an .ini file?

[konfeta]

Okay, for those wondering on clarifications, I just did a few side by side tests in a single battle against shielded targets on Insanity (not barrier or armor opponents; Adepts own those anyway).

1. Singularity - Does indeed disable shielded opponents. They stand there, twitching like morons when hit by it. Works especially well if one of them is unshielded, because the follow up warp on the unshielded guy nukes them all for lulz damage. However, you WILL want Widen singularity. This thing's AoE on Heavy is too small to fully take advantage of this property.

2. Shield Drain - Awesome. Restores your shields and instantaneously strips the shields of any enemy mook you encounter. Bonus points for being affected by Biotic Mastery. If you want that one skill to shore up your adept's greatest weakness, get this skill in AoE version.

3. Pull - Yes, Singularity is superior in terms of the fact that it actually disables targets and can hit after the fact of you firing it. However, Pull has two very distinct and noticeable advantages over Singularity at which I recommend at least 1 point in it. Advantage number one - it has a ridiculously low cooldown, which means it is the best (fastest) skill to set up a Warp detonation. It's a 1 point wonder in that respect. Advantage number two - it is the longest lasting disable. Not as big of an advantage as the low cooldown, but it is helpful in some situations.

If you are maxing this ability, always, always pick AoE evolution. It already lasts far more than you need, and the AoE just means you will often score more than 1 pick up.

4. Reave - I still don't understand the infatuation with this thing is. I tried both AoE and Heavy versions. It deals its damage against shields instantly, which means it is worthless at shoring up the Adept's only real weakness - shielded enemies. The disable, regeneration stopping, heal, and stun are very nice, however, what this means is that Reave is redundant and takes up a valuable power slot that could have been picked up by an Ammo Power, Shield Boost, or Energy Drain.

So, guys, don't pick Reave. Reave supplements improves your already absurd ability at cleaning house with opponents that have had their defense bars stripped with a small heal. Eneregy Drain, on the other hand, gives you what is basically Overload that heals your shields instead of damaging Synthetics. This is awesome.

More importantly, picking Reave locks you team mate choices. Picking Reave means you have to join the ranks of those who complain that Adepts are all about Warp/Reave spam. Join the cool people club, pick Energy Drain, and have fun with Biotic physics with greater freedom on your team make up without resorting to mods.

Honestly, after playing Adept for 40 hours on Insanity, my only complaint is that Throw is unapolagetically ****ty (barely any damage or disable duration, with Warp being superior at flinging flying targets thanks to the kablooey) and that Shockwave is lackluster..

Modifié par konfeta, 03 février 2010 - 02:22 .