91 réponses à ce sujet

[Moonbox]

 Let me start by saying ME1 probably had the best story of any RPG ever IMO.  The overall presentation of the game was incredible.  The 'memorable moments', the ones that make a good RPG great, were almost a constant in ME1.  Ilos was probably one of the best gaming moments for me in over 20 years.  I mean, racing through Prothean ruins chasing after the threat that destroyed them built the emotion and suspense to a level I've never experienced before.  It was almost like those sad Prothean statues there were warning  and encouraging you and that eerie music only built the suspense   Learning about the Protheans' final FU to the Reapers was also awesome.  You all remember how your heart was beating during the Mako race to the conduit.  I know you got butterflies watching the 5th fleet warp in from Arcturus to lay down a whooping.  Where was that in this game???  

I 'liked' ME2, but there were no memorable experiences for me.  BioWare certainly did make improvements from the first game, but I definetly think it was overall a huge step backwards.

I thought the 3rd person shooter mechanics were a lot better.  I really enjoyed it.  I thought the graphics, dialogue and even the character design was better.  I liked ALL of the team members you got to recruit.  

On the other hand, the main plot line of the game (to me at least) was pretty aweful.  Take away the recruiting and loyalty missions and there was maybe 3-4 hours of actual plot-related game there MAYBE.  A full, detailed synopsis of the main storyline could be completed in maybe 4-5 sentences.  

I didn't mind the character recruitment and loyalty missions.  They were fun.  It's just that they were almost completely unrelated subplots that felt more like expansion content than anything else.  It kind of went like this:

"Hey Samara.  I need to you on my team to stop the Collectors.  If I help you out with what you're doing here would you go on a suicide mission with me to stop them???"  

Obviously this is what would happen in the real world right?  I know I would probably drop everything to go on a suicide mission with a total stranger.  You guys would too right?  Pretty much the whole entire game revolved around preparing for the final mission in which you already knew what you were up against and what was going to happen. By the time the final battle came along it was pretty anti-climactic.  You'd already spent hours running a scanning reticule over planets to upgrade your crap.  You completed all the character missions.  By the end I was like, *yawn* "Alright, let's get this over with."

I DID enjoy the game.  It was decently fun.  I feel, however, like I could have skipped ME2 entirely, waited for ME3 and missed nothing in terms of story.  It was a side quest whose only revelation perhaps was that the Reapers harvest species to make new Reapers...but we kind of already knew that from the first game lol. "They're HARVESTING US" - Kaiden Alenko 

Modifié par Moonbox, 01 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[marshalleck]

It was the middle chapter of a trilogy. Those are notoriously hard to do, since they link the introductory part of the story with the resolution.



I see it as being more character-driven than anything, and it succeeded quite well in my opinion. All of the characters are much more interesting than the characters from the first. As for the overall narrative, it effectively established the elements that will come into play in the final game--the krogans and the genophage, the quarians and the geth, the relationship between humanity and the Council and how they're dealing with the Reaper threat. There was a lot of exposition but the resolution is being saved. Naturally that will lead to a feeling of being short-changed in the story department.

[Ozymandias23]

I agree with the OP regarding the thread bare plot. The main plot was the equivalent of Noveria or Feros from ME1.



The shooter mechanic was improved, the new Normandy was excellent, I loved EDI and Legion and actively hated every other new team mate. There were too many of them for me to care or feel attached to and by the end of the game I didn't care who lived or died. I just wanted to get it finished because honestly, I was kinda bored.

[InvaderErl]

Normandy vs Collectors > Battle for the Citadel.

The ship tangling with the Drone ships, taking out the cruiser and finally crashing into the surface of the station were simply epic.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 01 février 2010 - 09:05 .

[Seanylegit]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

I agree with the OP regarding the thread bare plot. The main plot was the equivalent of Noveria or Feros from ME1.

The shooter mechanic was improved, the new Normandy was excellent, I loved EDI and Legion and actively hated every other new team mate. There were too many of them for me to care or feel attached to and by the end of the game I didn't care who lived or died. I just wanted to get it finished because honestly, I was kinda bored.

I was more interested in delaying the story as long as possible so I could talk to and help every character because I thought they were all awesome and interesting. lol

When I finally got to the Collectors and I had no more loyalty missions I was a little sad.

Oh well, different opinions.

Modifié par Seanylegit, 01 février 2010 - 09:05 .

[Nautica773]

marshalleck wrote...

It was the middle chapter of a trilogy. Those are notoriously hard to do, since they link the introductory part of the story with the resolution.

I see it as being more character-driven than anything.

This. It's difficult to write a good story that has no beginning and no end. In my humble opinion, they should have put the Reapers on the backburner for a bit and dealt with the Collector's as some sort of unknown. Avoid trying to make a few more minor additions to the Reaper lore and just focus on a self contained adventure.
Anyway, it's more character driven with the unfortunate position of having little character development since most the cast is new and the final mission doesn't really play to their personalities. It was a missed opportunity, but at least the characters themselves are 100x better than the first game's cast.

[DrDoom6]

I actually that it was very well done. The Collectors proved much more a threat the Saren did. Who you truly didn't see all that often, and to find out along the Collector's were not only Protheans but also being controlled by an active Reaper was mind blowing.

[Vandrayke]

Main plot was real thin, but I don't know how much else they could do, since they can't offer the exposition that happens in the first story or the resolution that happens in the final story.



But I thought it more than made up for it with the recruitment missions. Middle stories in series are usually more about developing characters through struggle, and Shepard was really put through the wringer in ME2.

[0Gabe0]

hell no

[Intelwolves]

Invader, true, but the only good part(s) was the Collector ship getting cut to peaces by the SSV 2 Normandy and then the massive explosion of the main Collector base. That's how to get some nice payback. I love it.

[Thrakkesh]

Nope. People have a habit of putting the story of Me1 on a pedestal, but it was about the same level of simple handled with about the same level of character and universe depth. 'WE HAVE TO STOP THIS GUY BEFORE HE BLOWS US UP!" is not all that different from "We have to stop THESE guys before they take our wimminz!" It was the second part of a triology, it advanced the story, fleshed out the new races and set up for the finale.



It served it's purpose. My only complaint was the final boss, which is a little hackneyed but ultimately not that important.

[hanmul]

Story was good, just too short.



Recruit members(15 hours including loyalty quests),

Hit Collectors(8 hours),

and probing..(6 hours)



that's all I remember.

[tertium organum]

Yeah, story was a little weak. And the final mission could have been much better executed. The characters are great but the overall plot line is very thin. I don't know where they go from here. I'll definitely get ME3 but I'm not sure how it's going to work if they use the same formula - there needs to be more substantive main missions with big reveals along with the great characters. Pair down a character or two and make several more hours of the main story. The game feels strangely hollow - the characters have fantastic stories but your reason for recruiting them and using them is not as well told.

[AtreiyaN7]

I will point out again that the "plot" revolves around actually recruiting this team of specialists as your focus and building a strong team that will help you put a final stop to the Collectors. There are several major events with the Collectors in the game, but you can't seriously expect to face Collectors every step of the way. It's a known fact that there's almost no way to predict where they'll show up or when. Horizon was a lucky break (if you can call it that). If the game was only about following them around, you'd probably spend a lot of time on the Normandy just sitting there and if you found them, you'd be reamed and the SR-2 would be toast in short order because you're not prepared. I think important events are being set in motion for the final act, and while some might not appreciate ME2 being more character-driven, I did. Addressing that Kaidan comment - sure, we knew the Reapers harvested organics - we darned well didn't know why until now however.

[Time Well Spent]

I myself totally enjoyed the story and script, though some ME1 characters may have needed bigger roles, the new characters we're all brilliantly written, especially Mordin and Thane. The sequence where Mordin is looking at the female Krogans body and begins to doubt his actions is incredible, a wonder to see a video game surpass even films and TV in terms of writing. The whole game is coated in this dark, foreboding atmosphere. In my opinion Bioware surpassed themselves.

[Moonbox]

marshalleck wrote...

It was the middle chapter of a trilogy. Those are notoriously hard to do, since they link the introductory part of the story with the resolution.

I can understand that.  I wasn't expecting the story to be as good as ME1.  The middle of a trilogy, typically, is meant to flesh out the story, characters and conflict and build up for the finale.  

Arguably the only thing this game did, however, is build on some of the characters.  The problem with this is that most of the characters had nothing to do with the first game and their inclusion in the second didn't fit into the game in any way at all. 

In the first ME, it made sense that Garrus was joining.  He was pissed off with Saren and the Council/C-Sec and he knew you were going after him.  Tali joined you because Saren was trying to kill her.  It made sense.  The character development for them in that game FIT IN with the plot.  

The character development in this game was arbitrary and out of nowhere.  Why is Samara joining my team?  Why am I sidetracking to help catch her daughter?  Other than the Cerberus people and the returning characters from ME1, the only two characters that made any sense for joining were Mordin (he was already researching the Collector plague) and Legion (because he knew about the Reapers).  The others were just contrived filler thrown at us to make the game longer it seemed.    

[vallix]

This is one continuous story. ME2 doesn't form an entirely new plot. They had to find another focus in ME2 because it's the middle, you can't expect some epic finale. I think they did a great job on focusing on the characters, at least the new ones. ME3 will probably have this pants wetting story or at least ending everyone is upset about this one not having. Anyway this is how all big game releases go..

They release
People have a blast playing it
They come and discuss it with fans
Then it gets slowly picked apart overtime, others defend it..

..and eventually the next game is released and the process repeats, it was the same with ME1.

Modifié par vallix, 01 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[Vandrayke]

Thrakkesh wrote...

Nope. People have a habit of putting the story of Me1 on a pedestal, but it was about the same level of simple handled with about the same level of character and universe depth. 'WE HAVE TO STOP THIS GUY BEFORE HE BLOWS US UP!" is not all that different from "We have to stop THESE guys before they take our wimminz!" It was the second part of a triology, it advanced the story, fleshed out the new races and set up for the finale.

It served it's purpose. My only complaint was the final boss, which is a little hackneyed but ultimately not that important.

What made the first story more gripping is that it was all new to all players.  So everywhere you looked, you were finding out something new, and that is always cool.  There was also an obvious antagonist you had to deal with all the time. 

ME2 had to move Shepard into position for the already-inked conclusion, which I thought it did pretty well.  The stage is set, we know the players, and we are all prepped for the epic finale. 

Modifié par Vandrayke, 01 février 2010 - 09:17 .

[Nautica773]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I will point out again that the "plot" revolves around actually recruiting this team of specialists as your focus and building a strong team that will help you put a final stop to the Collectors.

Except all the recruitment missions and loyalty missions are sidequests and subplots. The overarching plot is the Collector's assault on humanity for which you're told everything when you first meet the Illusive Man. Furthermore, the reasons for recruiting the majority of the cast is rather thread bare and most of them are recommended because they're 'good with a gun.'
If the narrative were truly a character driven one, then we would have had a greater exploration of each individual's reaction to the events of the Collector's and seen some character progression and development. We didn't, there's no real input during the actual "Suicide Mission" and the Collector 'Threat' was more of a Collector Concern.

[deimosmasque]

Agreeing with AtreiyaN7 here, you can't say "cutting out the recruit and loyalty missions you have nothing" because that IS the plot. You are recruitment the best of the best of the best in order take down an enemy that seems unstoppable. The Suicide Mission itself is the payoff to the plot, not the plot itself.

Watch the movie "The Dirty Dozen" were plot inspiration obviously comes from, or better yet, read the novel. The actual mission wasn't the focus of that movie, working with the criminals, interpersonal relationships and making them work as a unit was. The mission is practically a footnote in the movie, and in the book it literally is.

My only complaint about ME2's plot is that I would have liked to see MORE friction among the recruits rather than the only two we got. Like Garrus being sized up by Grunt and you have the risk Grunt will try to attack him. Miranda and Jacob fighting over Cerberus's methods. Jack getting in Samara's face because "the Serene little Asari thinks she's better than me!"

That would have added a ton to the game in my opinion, if there was a chase to lose EVERYONES loyalty after their missions were completed.

[DarchAngelDavid]

I will admit that the main story is lighter then ME1 and there isn't a main big bad to worry about but this game is really about building up your team to help take down the main enemy and to learn more about the ME universe. For me it was done beyond well. I feel like their world is alive now and the characters have so much depth because of it. I felt fear when I sent my team in for the last mission. I was close to them and didn't want any one to die. All of the decisions that made had weight on them and I questioned my own morality at times. This game because it was so character driven made me feel like no other game has. In the end I loved the story and I know more about the ME universe and I am salivating at the mouth to see what happens next. So in a nut shell I am more then ok with the story this time because it is not the first game and didn't need to have the same pacing.

[Thrakkesh]

Arguably the only thing this game did, however, is build on some of the characters.  The problem with this is that most of the characters had nothing to do with the first game and their inclusion in the second didn't fit into the game in any way at all. 

It fit just fine. They were a ragtag bunch that were very good at their job.  You needed soldiers, killers, specialists and everything else.  You're nitpicking. 

In the first ME, it made sense that Garrus was joining.  He was pissed off with Saren and the Council/C-Sec and he knew you were going after him.  Tali joined you because Saren was trying to kill her.  It made sense.  The character development for them in that game FIT IN with the plot.  

Thane joins because he feels the cause is worthy and wants to do something truly good before he dies.  Samara joins because she believes in fighting for worthy causes, and saving the galaxy is pretty high up there. Legion joins because the Geth recognize the threat of the Reapers, and 'making their own future' will be hard when the Reapers blow you the hell up.  Grunt chooses to fight because it's the only thing he has going for his life, and it's about the most brutal fight he can join up.  Mordin goes because of curiousity and because he appreciates a cause that is straight black or white.  Miranda & Jacob are loyal to TIM and believe the threat is real, respectively.  You can gather all this information in game--how did you miss any of it? 

The character development in this game was arbitrary and out of nowhere.  Why is Samara joining my team?

Asari Justicar. She 'feels' your right and basically joins up.

Why am I sidetracking to help catch her daughter?

 Who says you have to? You understand you don't *have* to do it, right? If you, as a player, don't think it's worth it... don't. The RP reason you can put up for it: Because you don't want her to be distracted for the mission. Because you care about your team. Because her daughter is a crazed Succubus and anyone who contacts her is in danger.  Because SHE could be a powerful asset to the team.  It's a role-playing game.  Create motivation.

Other than the Cerberus people and the returning characters from ME1, the only two characters that made any sense for joining were Mordin (he was already researching the Collector plague) and Legion (because he knew about the Reapers).  The others were just contrived filler thrown at us to make the game longer it seemed.    

See earlier explanations.

Modifié par Thrakkesh, 01 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[mscotch]

I found all the characters were much more compelling in ME2. I thought the plot built on the first game fairly well and am extremely excited for ME3. The character mission were really entertaining and I hope they release some DLC that takes place after the final mission to keep me busy until ME3.

[Veex]

I thought the story hinged upon recruiting your squad mates with respect to stopping the collectors. In ME1 you aren't going out of your way to recruit a team, they simply join you as you're going about exposing the Reaper threat. Garrus, Wrex and Tali all meet up with you on the Citadel, Ashley is picked up on Eden Prime. Kaiden is already a part of your crew. You pick up Liara while searching the Prothean dig site.



In Mass Effect 2 you only start with Miranda and Jacob and your mission is to stop a threat you know you can't defeat alone. You can't just go to Horizon or attack the Collector vessel on your own. You need Solus' preventative measure, you need a large and loyal crew to survive the attack on the collector base. Mass Effect you didn't really understand how big the threat was, so you set out to stop Saren on your own and accumulated assets as you went.

[Vandrayke]

I think it's important to note how well positioned Shepard is for the finale. Because of how everyone has treated Shepard, it's a little more noble to be a paragon at the end, and a little more believable to be a renegade, which is really at the center of the ME universe.



In the first game, Shepard got to become a legitimate hero. In the second game, Shepard overcame dying, being scorned by loved ones and by the council, and ultimately having to side with an unfavorable ally in order to win a battle that s/he most likely will get no credit for winning. By the conclusion of the third game, I'm convinced that both renegade and paragon Shepards will feel like the most believable-- and therefore likeable-- heroes out there.