91 réponses à ce sujet

[MICHELLE7]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

I agree with the OP regarding the thread bare plot. The main plot was the equivalent of Noveria or Feros from ME1.

The shooter mechanic was improved, the new Normandy was excellent, I loved EDI and Legion and actively hated every other new team mate. There were too many of them for me to care or feel attached to and by the end of the game I didn't care who lived or died. I just wanted to get it finished because honestly, I was kinda bored.

My reaction exactly...after doing a squad mates side quest I quickly forgot about them. In ME I liked certain squaddies so much I had to have them with me as much as possible but in ME2 I found myself picking them based on whether I thought they would be good for the mission. None of them appealed to me and were all rather forgettable.

ME may have had it's flaws but it had way more heart. 

[AtreiyaN7]

Nautica773 wrote...

But for a plot riding solely on these individuals, to have them stand mute through most of the game is rather uncompelling. I feel there should have been more interaction between the Normandy crew and the Collector's. For a main narrative, a few snippets on the derelict Reaper and a quick sojourn to the remote human colony doesn't create the richest narrative experience. Even if every encounter doesn't involve the Collector's some more general threats for the team to face would have also worked to flesh out a strong story.

Okay, honestly in ME1, how many more meaningful reactions did you actually get from anyone about anything?  The only time you really got meaningful reactions in ME1 when talking to someone was after completing a major quest world/mission or at major turning points (the same basically applies in ME2). Otherwise, you were basically left with nothing new and no reactions to anything. You couldn't really talk with your crewmembers outside the Normandy in ME1 and get anything interesting (barring occasional special hotpoints), unless you liked hearing the same comments over and over. I mean, seriously, did anyone really say anything new on the Citadel after going back there X times in ME1? I found plenty of interesting interactions in ME2. If you chat with Legion at hotpoints on that Geth space station, you can get into details about geth hubs, etc. etc. The characters aren't totally mute, and apparently, from what I hear, if you take Garrus and Tali to the Citadel you can actually get some amusing dialogue out of them.

Also, talking to Legion on the Normandy led to plenty of topics that were fascinating. I'm pretty sure that if you compared the amount of personal dialogue from, oh, ME1 Garrus (listed as such to distinguish him from the new & improved ME2 Garrus) to Legion, you get more out of Legion than you did from ME1 Garrus. Legion gives some important insights about Geth society, their beliefs, their evolution and their history with the Quarians. It was all well done, and I think his hesitancy on coming up with a reason for keeping the N7 armor to patch himself after you press him on it indicates that the Geth may be coming close to developing emotions. He said "no data available" as if confused or uncertain how to process it, but I digress. Talk to Thane in certain areas on certain planets, and he'll make comments - ditto for other crew members if you find the right spots. It's all usually unique and doesn't turn into annoying spam comments like you got in ME1. Talk to Samara enough, and she'll even tell you about her run-in with Nihlus.

As for actually recruiting someone  like Thane - hello - you're still in the Terminus systems. You've got enemies to fight besides the Collectors. If I'm facing mercs or other normal humanoids (and even the Collectors), I really don't mind having at least two-three sniper-types with me to choose from (Thane, Garrus & Legion). You're not JUST fighting the Collectors, you still have to deal with problems in Omega and elsewhere. Also, some of  the things each character brings aren't really relevant UNTIL you're on the suicide mission. If you need someone who can lead a team well, then you have Garrus or Jacob for example at the end. If you need someone with tech skills, it's Tali or Legion, etc. etc. You need all kinds of people who are the best at what they do. Sometimes it's because they're leaders, sometimes it's because they're efficient and deadly, and sometimes it's because they have tech skills you need or powerful biotics. They all have their place even though you might not immediately see why they're useful, and that's why TIM selected them.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 février 2010 - 11:04 .

[Moonbox]

Atreiya what you're missing is WHY is Thane joining you. Sure he's a good assassin. Whatever. Why does he want to join you? The galaxy doesn't believe in the Reapers, or the Collectors. Why does a Hanaar-trained assassin all of the sudden want to join a stranger's suicide squad to go fight an enemy most people don't believe in? Oh...sorry. He wants to do something 'good' before he dies. I'm sure he could find a lot of other nice things to do that didn't involve chasing bogeymen with a stranger.



It's the same with most of the other characters.



YES. Some of the character side-quests were fascinating. YES, ME2 had heavier character development. On the other hand, ME2 didn't have a STORY. How many good books have you read that were 500+ pages of character development and no story.



We get it. ME2 was about the characters, but EVERY freaking story ever written is largely about the characters and their mission/story/quest/objective/lives. A story that focuses on the characters should also focus on their conflict. This story doesn't. It focuses on nothing and in the end is about nothing.

[Wintermist]

Wintermist wrote...

I agree with the OP and I'm adding my voice:

To start off, why was the decision made to make a second Normandy even though the first one clearly failed and the collectors can see through the stealth? That's how it got destroyed in the first place. Build something sturdier this time and maybe you'll live.

Then there's the plot. The Council as usual are working againt you. And why do they do that? Even after the first game where Shepard claim there are Reapers and Geth coming to wreak havoc did the Council help out. So, they was unprepared when the Geth and a mysterious ship (Oh could THAT actually BE a Reaper, noooooo) do arrive and bust things up.

Now, Shepard and humanity actually do save the day, but does the council believe his story? No, that was just Geth, why would we believe there was a reaper even though there's that one mysterious ship that does fit Shepard's story perfectly. We say NO. That part makes no sense.

Now for the second plot, they should have KEPT the Geth war and used that as a cover for not helping themselves, because no one can spare any resources because they have to fight the Geth still. Ah, so Shepard HAVE to find his crew in obscure places. NOW it makes sense. Some side-missions could actually even be to help fight the Geth.

Why did no one cheer when it turned out Shepard was alive? Still this contempt from the Council. Very tiresome. Throw a big fooken party and celebrate, the hero of the Citadel has returned!

Then there's the collector missions. You escape from your base. Examine a colony. Grab an IFF and finally go to the ending. That is? Did I just spend hours collecting all my crew for this quick ending and this short story? Yeah... I did... *shrug* I could have sat down with them and figured out some very entertaining missions for the storyline with BioWare. I'd do it for free.

Despite all this though, I forgot to say that I did enjoy the gameplay. It was FUN to do the missions such as they were.

[Moonbox]

I'll agree with that. I actually enjoyed the shooting missions for the shooting's sake alone, which is not something I can really say about ME1.

[AtreiyaN7]

If you want to discuss Thane, I believe it's in part due to his philosophy, and if you speak to him enough, you'll find out that he expected to die after the hit on Nassana anyway. You manage to convince him that your mission is a worthy cause. *shrug* If that's not enough for you, sorry. Zaeed is paid to join the mission, and Miranda and Jacob are Cerberus. Mordin, no doubt, finds the idea fascinating just as a scientist. Jack wants to tear things up, and you do kind of get her out of Purgatory. Let's not analyze everyone's motivations, as I don't want to write a paper on it.

You are entitled to see it your way, but "The Dirty Dozen" has been used to describe what the squad is like, and if you have seen the actual movie, then you know that this is what the game is most similar to story-wise. Build your team and lead them through hell on what amounts to a suicide mission basically. I dunno, go watch the movie for reference if you haven't seen it? Perhaps more conflict would be nice, but yeah, I don't know how much you can expect them to squeeze in other than those moments with Jack & Miranda or Tali & Legion.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 février 2010 - 11:06 .

[Moonbox]

That just makes the story so much worse. It's a sci-parallel to the dirty dozen? Way to go BioWare....

[AK118]

tl;dr



but yeah, i was i dissapointed. it was short, too. i feel like i really did't learn anything new about the reapers or the mass effect universe at all. in the last bit, it even felt like i had missed some things, like that harbinger was a reaper. it was easy to guess, but still, it was a surprise.

[brightblueink]

Eh, I disagree. Generally I've found that if I'm not as attached to the characters, I don't get that into the story. I still enjoyed myself in Mass Effect, and I found the characters likeable (outside of Ashley, who took a long while to grow on me), but overall I didn't really feel like I "knew" them, so stuff mattered to me less. Plus, I knew I was going to win, I was the main character. And really, both of ME's stories are pretty standard sci-fi: There's a threat to the human race, so you have to find a way to stop it, and then discover there's an ancient threat that will soon harm the ENTIRE GALAXY unless humanity runs in and saves the day. I could just go watch Avatar again if that's what I really wanted.



In ME2, I really felt connected to all the characters. I wanted to know more about them, and I got it. I had several times where I was brought to tears by something that happened as I played--even for Miranda, who I couldn't stand at first. And the ending felt MUCH more intense to me because I knew there was a genuine chance that I could fail, and that I could lose characters I cared about. So overall I had a deeper personal connection to the story, and that's what really matters to me.



ME2 wasn't perfect, I wanted things to be connected together a little more, I wanted more character interaction like the fight between Jack and Miranda, and it felt a little short. The collectors didn't really feel threatening to me until the first trip to their base. But I still think that overall, the plot and writing was better in the first game. ME1 felt like it had more of a complete plot, but I didn't have much of a reason to care about how it ended.

[Moonbox]

Brightblueink I see what you're saying, and I agree I felt more attached to some of the characters. Only 'some' of them mind you. The character development WAS better, it's just that it didn't have anything to do with the game's story. I might as well have been watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy for all the 'character development' had to do with the Mass Effect story.



Good characters propel the story forward. Without a story, however, all you're dealing with is meaningless drama.

[The-Person]

Moonbox wrote...

Brightblueink I see what you're saying, and I agree I felt more attached to some of the characters. Only 'some' of them mind you. The character development WAS better, it's just that it didn't have anything to do with the game's story. I might as well have been watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy for all the 'character development' had to do with the Mass Effect story.

Good characters propel the story forward. Without a story, however, all you're dealing with is meaningless drama.

What did any of the teammates in Mass Effect 1 have do with the plot? Why did Tali join? Why did Garrus join? Why did Wrex join?

[Fhaileas]

The ending was a total disappointment. The first game ends with a hugely climactic event. The fight at the Citadel, learning the truth about the Reapers (Virmire in general, actually) and having to choose whether Ashley or Kaidan dies, the fight with Saren...whereas in ME2 you fight an under-construction Terminator (a hilariously contrived and puerile plot device), and teammates living/dying feels arbitrary. Sure, player decision affects the ending, but there isn't enough feedback to tell us why things happened the way they did. The choices aren't as meaningful.

I completed it without anyone dying, and was basically bored by the whole affair. The game just doesn't feel like it's on the same scale as the first. The characters and the interactions between them are very structured, like the mission system. I miss the random banter, since now dialogue is always triggered by you/Shepard. It just feels lifeless. The environments are smaller than the first game, nothing even remotely akin to the Citadel from ME 1 in either scale or scope. The small scale and linearity of the missions to recruit new members/gain their loyalty (as well as other assorted N7 missions) just doesn't compare to the immersive embellishments afforded by the varied planets in ME1.

ME2 just feels like filler. The scanning, recruiting teammates, the story; it all feels like it's setting up for something, and the payoff just isn't there.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 02 février 2010 - 03:55 .

[MatronAdena]

I saw it more or less as the typical middle arch in a series...Sure you don't progress things " a lot" though you do tighten up, or introduce some form of conflict not initially seen into the story. I felt you did learn quite alot actually about why the reapers do what they do, or more over a part of why they do what they do, and how.



As for the characters, I admit I held much much less interest in the new crew ( save for legion ) though the returning crew, and run-ins with the previous ones were great moments with me, and I LOVED how Shepard and _______ actually show joy at seeing each other again ( although 2 of them turn into utter twits, and one of them seems to do so, until you break her down and find her real reasons for acting as such which is easy to miss)



but that all said, I saw it as a bridge, and nothing more. It was exactly what it needed to be.

[Fhaileas]

MatronAdena wrote...

but that all said, I saw it as a bridge, and nothing more. It was exactly what it needed to be.

 I would have been more sympathetic had narrative continuity from the previous game not felt so... disjointed. Not to mention the utter banality of the overarching plot and the retconned lore.

It was an obvious decision on Bioware's part though, ME 2 was supposed to have some measure of association with the previous game but it was purposefully "designed" to stand alone as well lest people unfamiliar/disenchanted with the story and "complicated" mechanics of the first game delve into it without paying homage to its predecessor, not to mention attracting a more expansive "mainstream" crowd.

[PatT2]

Yeah. Race to the bottom. That's it.

To answer the question. Yeah. Problem with the story. Oh, wait. What story?

I'm disappointed. Also the lack of paragon options, period. There's renegade, and more renegade. This isn't about "grey" areas. People who think that have slid too far toward the dark side already. My ME1 Sheps would never do even the 'paragon' options I am stuck with. I'm just not liking the forced renegade/evil route. Oh, sure. I can refuse to get the loyalty of some members by not doing their quest in a way that might please them, but then I don't succeed at my task. Damned if I don't, damned if I do. I feel like I want to take a shower after a few hours with this game.

Never felt that way with a game before. Sure the "mechanics" are nice. BFD.

[Moonbox]

I don't think I learned anything new from this game. The writing struck me as extremely lazy and some of the answers we got were just boring/contrived and convenient excuses to not bother with a decent story.



The whole game to me felt like it was busy work. I didn't feel like any of the characters I recruited belonged on my team. I never 'bought' the reasons BioWare gave me for them agreeing to join my team.



I never felt like there was any urgency to what I was doing because the whole game I knew that the final mission was waiting for me. I knew what was going to happen and what I was trying to do the entire time through. There was 4ish hours of actual plotline in this game and then 15-20 hours of useless filler IMO.