169 réponses à ce sujet

[Terraneaux]

What I don't understand is why Bioware didn't just focus on the characters from ME1 and develop them even further in ME2. Was it really so necessary to create a new cast? Honestly, people got pretty attached to the characters in ME1, why was the decision made to drop them?

[Sursion]

gr00grams wrote...

Well, they wrote more story holes than this as well;

Like who cares if your shepard dies? they can build you again... and again,.... and again...
I realize it was insanely expensive, but still.

It's pretty simple, ME1's story absolutely dominates this ones, but ME2's character progressions are still somewhat better... but that was the whole game... so they should be a bit better.

The collector base was vapourized. There's no way Shepard is coming out of that one.

And I think they're going to put everything into ME3. Obviously there's going to be new squad mates, and obviously not all of the ME2 squad is going to carry-on. I say, 1-3 ME1 Squad, and 3-5 ME2 squad.

[KBGeller]

Terraneaux wrote...

What I don't understand is why Bioware didn't just focus on the characters from ME1 and develop them even further in ME2. Was it really so necessary to create a new cast? Honestly, people got pretty attached to the characters in ME1, why was the decision made to drop them?

I doubt they were dropped, I more expect to see a major return. For example, you happened to notice that the major players from ME1 that had no chance of death and thus are most likely to return in ME3 for everyone are also leaders of major groups?

Wrex has the krogan, Liara has the pirates/thiefs/etc, TIM has Cerberus, You could have the Rachni based on choices and you could have the Geth based on choices. As such, it sounds like a good start to an army to repel some Reaper scum to me.

[Ryouseiken]

My friend brought up a good point. Squad Members who can potentially die in their games (which is just about everyone now except Liara) generally have less script and interaction with the story in general because it might be deemed pointless to create so much diologue or script or plot for a character who could potentially be dead in your playthrough. That's probably why the characters such as Ashley, Kaidan, Wrex, and basically all the cast of ME2 -minus Shephard- will have sparse or minor roles in ME3 and not permanent roles as squad members again.

I just hope they take into consideration how much work they've put into the romance sub-plot and don't compromise it due to this. Also I'm hoping that they at least give a moderate amount of diologue, more to those who are potential romances since obviously those said relationships are the most intimate and close you CAN get to your squad-mates.

[malkuth74]

Yeah plus why introduce new guys. They can't do a repeat of ME 2 with most the story being about building your team.



ME 2 Was a character Driven story line, introducing you to a team that you will stick with, well at least the ones that lived. Doing another story arc of building a new team in ME3 would be a total crock of crap and useless and boring. That is what ME2 was for.



I'm sure we might have a few new faces, but most of our team will be in it. And the default game IE like ME2 start without import will be what the game is built off, and they will work in the deaths with the import options just like ME2 did.

[RiouHotaru]

If you think about it, Bioware hasn't really written themselves into a corner, but they do have certain obligations:

1) Since the canon ending is that the Suicide Mission succeeds...than Legion, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Samara, and Jack must survive if you don't import, as these characters are critical to the success of the mission, in whatever combination (Legion/Tali for tech, Miranda/Garrus for leadership, and Samara/Jack for biotic)

2) The ME2 LI (assuming you had one) has to play an active role.  The only reason the ME1 LI was sidelined was due to the possibility of a total party kill, which destroys whatever character development would exist in ME3.  Since ME3 is the finale, Bioware has absolutely NO reason to hold anything back.  So anyone importing a character means that Garrus/Jacob/Thane/Tali/Miranda/Jack (whichever one you chose) has to survive and play a role.  Thane is the only exception, since his sickness might kill him before ME3 begins.

3) Several of the characters have nowhere else to go, or are loyal to Shepard's cause and have no reason to leave.  This includes Jacob/Miranda/Tali/Garrus.  To sideline them would be a ridiculously stupid mistake.

4) There's nothing saying you can't have 10-12 squadies.  We have 11 as of the end of ME2, adding a few more won't change things enough to ruin them.  And if ME3 is supposed to be longer than ME2, having that many is a perfectly acceptable to the story.

[Vicious]

It's like everyone said. Expect Cameos. ALMOST everyone has something to do, if they survive. Grunt, for example, is NEEDED, according to the Shaman. So he's going back. Tali needs to go back and stop the Quarians from warring against the Geth when the Reapers are right around the corner. [I SMELL A SIDEQUEST] Miranda will go back to the Illusive Man and take the heat off of you [if you destroyed the base] or be studying new technology [kept the base.]



etc. etc. ad nauseam.

[Treason1]

Personally, I'm of several opinions/ideas:

Since you can basically terminate your entire squad in ME2, I'm not altogether sure that those games where your teammates do survive, will have a significant effect in ME3..just too many variables to cover, for a plot/character driven game. From the looks of things, ME3, quite possibly, will be enormously open-ended..even more so, than ME2.

Should this be the case, then I expect little character impact on the overall storyline..similar to what they've gone with, so far. Each character has an "episode" they "star" in, and a few short comments or interactions in other "episodes" "starring" other characters. Doing this, they'll be able to have any number of potential "surviving crew mates" in your squad/Normandy crew, as they'll have little bearing on the story arc. Tali could be dead, in ME3, if she didn't survive, in which case, in ME3, you don't get her "episode" to play, and you MIGHT get a bit of small talk concerning Shepard's emotions, had they been involved with her, romantically. Other than than, probably not much.

Using the same example, if Tali survives, then you'll have her "episode" to play through, and should she have been romanced, a little extra dialogue/scenes to enjoy, and possible conflict with another LI from ME1, should that have been a variable of your carried over save.



As for the who contemplation of "who will and who won't" be in the squad, should everyone survive....Really, I only see Thane as guaranteed dead. Even if he survived the mission, he's dying anyway. Everyone else could show back up, as I noted before, but they may not have an "episode" to play through, and could just be a talking NPC back aboard the Normandy..with maybe a Joker-esque type mission, during the plot.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

They managed to justfy new powers, new ship, new partners, and such by killing the main character and "rebuilding" him.

Don't get me wrong, both ME plots are great, but the whole "I thought you were dead!" tale is one as old as, say, the Gospel.

The beauty of the sequel is that you can get away with some honestly rediculous corners and plot holes. BioWare has a talent for being REALLY good at taking even cliche plot devices and making them seem fresh with a lemon twist.

BioWare probably has ME3 story outlined before phsyical development of ME2 even began. It's really not that uncommon with trilogies.

The first of any trilogy has to be able to stand on it's own because it is what sells the rest of the franchise, any subsequent titles can really more heavily on the "Tune in next time!" effect. What is bad is when you really too much on it. (Kotor II, Halo 2, Matrix 2)

Modifié par SharpEdgeSoda, 02 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[marshalleck]

Every hour in ME3 of building a new team of miraculously badass badasses that were conspicuously unavailable for the badassery in ME2 is an hour not spent wrapping up plot threads from the first two games.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[Raezaiel]

Tali still has plot left, Garrus really is done, nothing left.

am concenred however, who is cannon to survive, Morinth or Samaara, I killed Samaara. (Died mating with Morinth lol)

Modifié par Raezaiel, 02 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[LotharanAeron]

Considering how it seems they really want to pull out all of the stops in ME 3, I wouldn't be surprised if they do some things that seem a little crazy as far as working in living/dead squad members, etc.



As far the three part story arc usually goes, the first third, maybe half of ME 3 will be not necessarily team building, but unifying all of the elements into an effective whole, and then the rest will be one hell of a rollercoaster ride.

[ClosingRacer]

They could have a True ending where 1 ending is absolute... like example your character lives ( has to be) ..Tali and garrus live and while at that you whole team lives...anyway if they decide if Tali dies they could use her still ...you can use her example of bravery of dying to save humans from the collectors and persuade the Quarians to help you

[ComTrav]

It occurs to me that their ME1-to-ME2 importing is one of the first time something like this has evern been done in a video game.



ME2 to ME3 might expand and refine the concept.



It will be upsetting if all the ME2 characters get sidelined because they could potentially die.

[ShadowAldrius]

The suicide's squads chances of dying don't matter. What DOES matter is... what is the *CANON* ending of ME2. If it's that EVERYONE survived, then EVERYONE can return as a squadmate. Maybe not in a central role, but they'll still be a part of your squad.

Really, your squad won't be as central to ME3 as it was in ME2, so there's just a lot more leeway regarding it. ME1->ME2 just doesn't work as an example, because of the CENTRAL ROLE your squad plays in the game. Plus Ashley/Kaidan played a small role because they were love interests, not because they could die. Otherwise Liara wouldn't have played the medium-sized part she did.

It occurs to me that their ME1-to-ME2 importing is one of the first
time something like this has evern been done in a video game.

Well. Other than Quest for Glory. Which was like... 20 years ago.

Modifié par ShadowAldrius, 02 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[wraith1113]

After going through this topic, I'm thinking at some point in time a Bioware ME3 Dev / Story Lead had a reaction similar to



"Oh... what do we do now... ****..."



There might have even been some hyperventilating, but that is pure speculation.

[ComTrav]

Another thought: Maybe Bioware set ME2 up this way partly to drive interest in the third game. Surely everyone know is wondering how they'll do the linking-in.



I can't imagine they committed to ME2 being a suicide mission before having at least some idea how returning characters would play out in ME3.

[MountainPuncher]

For anyone who argues that Bioware would never put in the time to record tons of dialogue for characters some players may not see (due to them being dead), look at Dragon Age:



You can miss Leliana and Sten by not visiting the inn.

Shale is optional.

Dog, while minor, can be lost by not healing him before Ostagar's battle.

You can kill Zevran.

You can use Morrigan to kill Wynne.

You can then tell Morrigan to leave, if I recall correctly. I think the only real mandatory members are Alistair and...what...Ohgren? Can you tell him to leave as well?

[ComTrav]

MountainPuncher wrote...

For anyone who argues that Bioware would never put in the time to record tons of dialogue for characters some players may not see (due to them being dead), look at Dragon Age:

You can miss Leliana and Sten by not visiting the inn.
Shale is optional.
Dog, while minor, can be lost by not healing him before Ostagar's battle.
You can kill Zevran.
You can use Morrigan to kill Wynne.
You can then tell Morrigan to leave, if I recall correctly. I think the only real mandatory members are Alistair and...what...Ohgren? Can you tell him to leave as well?

Significant dialogue for SPECIAL GUEST CHARACTER, too.

And you need Oghren for the Deep Roads, but I think you can get him to leave after.

[MountainPuncher]

Exactly. I don't understand why they should shunt every character from ME2 into the corner just because they should have died. Especially because there's plenty of room for Garrus to keep developing, especially if you had him get progressively more Renegade through the two games. It just seems like a colossal waste of time to get us attached to all these wonderful characters, only to throw them out for new ones. It worked (mostly) in this game with Wrex and Liara/Ashley/Kaiden, but why hide away all these new favorites for the LAST GAME in the trilogy? As in, the LAST TIME we'll probably get to even talk with them and watch them grow as characters! Throwing them into minor positions would just be insulting.



Plus, designing the last game in a sequential trilogy to appeal to newcomers to the series (ie: removing old characters so new people won't get as confused about them) seems more than a little silly. By the time ME3 comes out I imagine anyone interested in the games will have at least played ME2. You have to plan for people who haven't, but catering to them? That's just weak and unsatisfactory for the rest of us.

[gamergamergamer]

again youre assuming every player had all crew members survive. they cant make your LI feature if shes dead, same with any other character that was part of your squad. they all have the potential to die and that means bringing them back for me3 is a a huge amount of work, even more so than bringing wrex back for me2 would have been, because now you have 10 potential characters that need to be fully voiced and animated that any number of may not be used.  add to that fact that any combination of characters could be dead for any number of players and you see how badly bioware ****ed themselves.

[MountainPuncher]

yf2489 wrote...

I remember Bioware stating for ME3 there are no restrictions...its the last game in the trilogy. Expect them to branch out all these characters in many different directions. They wont be holding back im guessing for ME3.

I'm hoping they stay true to this and really make past decisions matter.  If your old crew died in ME2, just use all the new members to replace them.  If they didn't, pick and choose who stays aboard the Normandy.