169 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrisimo79]

fusilero1 wrote...

I agree, the Squadmates line up should remain mostly the same. Maybe with four/five new guys to fill in any holes (or every hole, if you've managed to lose all your chums). We've spent an entire game focused on building our relationship with them, would be a bit of a waste to throw it all away.

If they have cameo roles they won't be thrown away. And it gives BioWare the chance to put the resources into developing new characters that every Player can use.

yf2489 wrote...

I remember Bioware stating for ME3 there
are no restrictions...its the last game in the trilogy. Expect them to
branch out all these characters in many different directions. They wont
be holding back im guessing for ME3.

That would be great, but BioWare would need a lot more people to work on ME3 in that case.

Modifié par Chrisimo79, 02 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[Andysilv]

One of the things that makes me optimistic about our squad returning is that BioWare have a different team working on DLC so the main team have probably been working on ME3 for quite some time. It will be much easier for BW to expand on old characters who already have a solid foundation than to create a dozen new characters who all need to be built from scratch.



Also, the combat is pretty much perfect as it is, so that doesn't need too much extra work for ME3 & locations like Illium and Tuchanka felt quite underused in ME2 to be honest. So I could see a lot of ME3 taking place in these locations with them being expanded a bit and a few UNCs where we will take the fight to the Reapers.



There aren't many decisions to carry over into ME3 from ME2 either so the main things to transfer would be who lived and who died.



I'm staying optimistic.

[Greyhound144]

When i played through only my Salarian died, but i heard if you were lazy shep could die as well? If this is ture and possible cause of the "Suicide mission" have you ever considered you may not be Shep in me3 rather one of the squad mates who did survive or a new unknown altogether.



Yes people would be pissed and a bad decision on biowares part to do so, but if it were Garrus Tali, Miranda or jacob is could be plausible, even though i hated both Humie chars, Garrus and Tali rule.

my theory is thin due to they bent the knee to the garomance and talimance, well to a degree, not see what a Quarian's face looked like had me pissed!

[screwoffreg]

Tali, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Kasumi, Liara, Ashley/Kaiden, that is a decent size crew there. I am sure there will be some more.

[Direwolf029]

I really don't want them replacing my squad again

[screwoffreg]

Greyhound144 wrote...

When i played through only my Salarian died, but i heard if you were lazy shep could die as well? If this is ture and possible cause of the "Suicide mission" have you ever considered you may not be Shep in me3 rather one of the squad mates who did survive or a new unknown altogether.

Yes people would be pissed and a bad decision on biowares part to do so, but if it were Garrus Tali, Miranda or jacob is could be plausible, even though i hated both Humie chars, Garrus and Tali rule.
my theory is thin due to they bent the knee to the garomance and talimance, well to a degree, not see what a Quarian's face looked like had me pissed!

If Shepard is dead, then that Shepard is dead as in the story is complete for them.

[ShadowAldrius]

add to that fact that any combination of characters could be dead for any number of players and you see how badly bioware ****ed themselves.

The combinations don't really matter. If the default of the game. is that everybody lived, then MOST of the people playing the game will see them alive and as squadmates. I doubt they'll bring back EVERY squadmate. (I can't see both Morinth/Samara and Liara on the same squad.) But there's no reason some of the more major ME2 squadmates can't come back. Particularly since it seems like Kaidan or Ashley are.

[Corben158]

Bioware just needs to force us to have certain characters, bring them back to life like Shep or somethin, because once you start having these variables, The game can split into too many avenues, which makes the game less for everyone.

[magnuskn]

Good point about Dragon Age, I heard a
lot of people completely missed some characters. Maybe I should take
that as an omen as to how a plot which isn't dependent on one or the
other character would work.

But they definitely will have to
make the LI squadmembers be accounted in ME3, and not only in cameo
roles, like the ones from ME1. Tali and Garrus, I need those two!
Especially Tali! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Modifié par magnuskn, 02 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[Tooneyman]

Bioware stated every decision you made in ME 2 will matter no matter what happended and infact it will carry over to the next game. I'm just hoping the game of number ME 3 is what I think it is. All the decision in one last full bundle with a few side missions involved. They said the game was based off of characters and a very character driven plot. Lets put it this way. Say your shepard dies and all the crew. Well liaras got money people she can pay for the revivals if you kept her love interested.

[KainrycKarr]

Mass Effect 2's story was, let's face it, about the crew. Finding, recruiting, and gaining the loyalty of the best possible group of warriors in the galaxy. That was the story.



To completely and utterly ignore/disband that group in ME3, would render ME2 pretty much meaningless. The only people who'd know or care what happened in all honesty would be what? Joker and Shepard?



Come on. A new squad in ME3 would be incredibly weak, storywise.

[EJon]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

If you use Mass Effect 1 as an example then the fate of the ME2 squadmates is very clear. Anyone who could die in ME1 got a tiny cameo in ME2. Everyone can die in ME2 so .... cameo central. I think even Tali and Garrus will be reduced to cameo status.

Casey Hudson has already said in an interview that they're thinking up new squad mates for ME3.

He never said that. He said they weren't going to give us a new squad because its the final chapter and we've already built up friendships/relationships up until that point. At most there might be 2-3 new squad mates, but the ME2 surviving squad, particularly Garrus, Miranda, Tali, and Jacob, are returning as squad members.

[ahall88]

I just hope Liara, Tali, and Garrus return. I would rather have the squad mates from the first to games return, with maybe a couple new ones, then have a brand new squad again. It would make more sense to be working with people you know, with the Reapers coming and all, than have to spend time learning about know squad mates.

[EJon]

Corben158 wrote...

Bioware just needs to force us to have certain characters, bring them back to life like Shep or somethin, because once you start having these variables, The game can split into too many avenues, which makes the game less for everyone.

Then make sure nobody dies in the game. Don't expect them to cater to you if half your squad died. Its your decision, you made it that way. The same way they dealt with Wrex in ME2 is the same way they'll do the squad mates from ME2-ME3. 

[breebel]

The most important question that any writer faces with regards to plot is conflict - resolution. Once all the problems have been resolved, the story ends about five minutes later.

So what we have to do is look at each character and what possible conflicts they might have to further their development:

Tali - still a lot of conflict here. Quarians haven't returned to their homeworld, after all. Her father died because of wanting to fulfil his promise to her - it's only fitting that you get to see that promise fulfilled. Squad member.

Garrus - I really can't think of anything pressing for him to do that would greatly advance the plot. Expect him to be a cameo (perhaps cameos will be a case of when you visit a particular world, that character joins you for that mission? Like a loyalty mission, but grander in scope). If he survives ME2, I would guess that he will leave at the beginning of ME3. Then again, due to fan backlash, he will most likely make it in as a squadie with a new conflict written for him (possibly resulting in him telling the Council and C-Sec to shove it).*

Moridin - again, nothing pressing for him to do. However, I can see him being a non squad member that still stays aboard the ship (like Dr.Chakwas or Kelly). That way, if you kept him alive, you can have the option of reversing the genophage (if you decided to keep the research), which would allow you to recruit the Krogan for the final battle - which means that you can actually get the really, REALLY good ending where Shepherd doesn't sacrifice him/herself. (Just throwing ideas out there). And you can still have conversations with him (talk about the previous mission/what's happening on the ship). But he isn't ESSENTIAL to the story.

Jacob - why exactly did he leave the Alliance and join Cerberus? The reasons he gives aren't very good ones. Plus his loyalty mission seemed contrived to me (it wasn't like he kept going on about how his father went missing before it happened...or maybe I just missed it). Perhaps they were holding something back? Anyway, he'll be back as a Squad Member, if only to balance out the presence of...

Miranda - this one still has conflict. Still has her father chasing her, and we still don't know why he created her in the first place - except for some vague thing about a 'legacy'. Plus, unless the Normandy blows up again, her place on the ship is called 'Miranda's Office'. So expect her to return to active duty. Squad member.

Samara - WILL be replaced by Liara (the reason why she couldn't be romanced, so players couldn't form an attachment to her). Doubt she'll even be given a cameo, as her involvement was merely as a placeholder.

Legion - plot development central with this guy. What are his motivations? Why find Sheperd now, and not help in ME1? Squad member.

Jack - any development of this character would be forced, IMO. If they had made it so the head researcher of the Cerberus facility was still alive, then maybe we would have something. But they didn't, so we don't. Will leave at the start of the game if she survived (like Garrus).*
 
Thane - will be dying. They wrote that into the story so they didn't have to worry about keeping him around (his story would have worked just as well if he WASN'T dying, which means it was a device to write him out). Leaves if he isn't already dead.*

Grunt - I guess his desire for battle is as big a conflict as you can get. It will either be him or Wrex as a squad member.

Zaaed - DLC means that not everyone will have got him, so he is not canon and therefore not relevant.

*Of course, plot devices can be written for these characters if enough people want them back.

So of the ME2 characters, we've got Tali, Legion, Grunt, Jacob and Miranda (and most likely Garrus) returning to active duty. If they had wanted the others to return, they would have given them other plot points to resolve. Liara and Kaidan/Ashley will be in, bringing our total squad to 8.

Tali
Legion
Grunt (or Wrex)
Jacob
Miranda
Garrus
Ashley/Kaidan
Liara

Leaving room for 2 more new characters.

"But what if you let your entire squad die?" I hear you ask. Well, if that's the case, tough. You'll have to make do with Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Legion (it's a program, and therefore can't 'die') and the two new characters. Which is 5 - one less character to play with than the original Mass Effect. Remember, dying is BAD.

Of course, if you were that incompetent, I would say your chances of actually having a victory over the Reapers are going to be buckleys and none - which is why the choices you make in ME2 will have a great affect on ME3.

[hawat333]

CptKyleBuddha wrote...

Tali must stay

If this will be the case, all the possible LIs must stay. Include them all or don't include any of them.

[KainrycKarr]

That's what I don't understand. With the exception of one or two forum trolls I've noticed having a specific hate for certain characters, how many people are REALLY going to go into ME2 with an import of mostly dead crew?

[KainrycKarr]

hawat333 wrote...

CptKyleBuddha wrote...

Tali must stay

If this will be the case, all the possible LIs must stay. Include them all or don't include any of them.

I'm perfectly fine with that, it would be fair for everyone to end their story with their preferred LI.

[EJon]

I disagree. You can't just call certain characters placeholders. The only placeholder was Zaeed. Samara is most likely returning, she's sworn to Shepard until the crisis is over. If you guys seriously think that Bioware is going to discard the ME2 squad, after all of the loyalty and trust building, then your in for a surprise. Like someone said above, it renders ME2 useless if you just disband the squad. Your surviving squad WILL be your squad in ME3. End of story.

[EJon]

KainrycKarr wrote...

That's what I don't understand. With the exception of one or two forum trolls I've noticed having a specific hate for certain characters, how many people are REALLY going to go into ME2 with an import of mostly dead crew?

Well thats your problem. You'll have to fix it, or you'll have less of a crew. I'm sure the normandy will get a new yeoman and crewmembers and such - but as for squad mates - don't expect a dramatic amount of "possible" recruits.

[KainrycKarr]

EJon wrote...

I disagree. You can't just call certain characters placeholders. The only placeholder was Zaeed. Samara is most likely returning, she's sworn to Shepard until the crisis is over. If you guys seriously think that Bioware is going to discard the ME2 squad, after all of the loyalty and trust building, then your in for a surprise. Like someone said above, it renders ME2 useless if you just disband the squad. Your surviving squad WILL be your squad in ME3. End of story.

I think what will happen is that new, placeholder squadmates will replace whoever died in your save.

Again, the vast majority of people aren't likely to import with more than maybe 1 or 2 dead crewmembers.

Though the new "placeholders" will definately have actual dialogue and story as opposed to Zaeed. Although to be honest...I liked Zaeed. Cool guy.

[Wildhide]

Having recurring central characters is generally very important to developing a long plot line.  Your audience (no matter the venue) becomes attached to characters and wants to see their story play out, it's what draws them back many times, just as some people are drawn back by the inclusion of new personalities in their favorite IPs.

It would hurt ME2 to not have a number of the characters return, but at the same time there does need to be change up.  It seems to me Bioware set up the potential for NPC deaths as a means of addressing that.  Some of the squad can be culled, and others can be carried over.  And some are set up to never show in ME3 already, Thane is a good example.

Recurring characters are a foundation, it was the whole point of Garrus and Tali, they help set you back into the character and the universe by giving you a point to work off of.  Just as Star Wars where Obi Wan may die; but Leia, Luke, and Han return with Yoda coming in to fill the gap.  Lord of the Rings does it too.  Characters in and out.

I would be surprised to not see a lot of the characters return as squad with a few new additions.  ME1 character's I'd expect to come back, too.  Liara is an obvious one, Wrex less so, but he'll likely be involved as a support character.  

This last statement is purely my opinion, but I think ME3 will not be nearly the epic climax if all the characters you've interacted with for so long suddenly are sidelined.  It tends to hurt writing more than help it.  Garrus, Tali, and Joker are 3 of my favorites (Mordin is right up there, too), and I think a lot of that has to do with how central they've been.  I can't see the game as nearly appealing with a loss of those three, for me anyways.  And I didn't even really like Garrus in ME1, but he developed in a very interesting way, and I want to see that keep going.

I expect Garrus and Tali are a foil for Shepard and I'd be a bit surprised if they aren't still central in ME3 as your main sidekicks.

TLDR is:  Removing all the characters that have made up Shepards life in ME1 and 2 will likely damage the plot of ME3, I wouldn't anticipate a fully new squad.  Expect something along the lines of ME2, with characters from the previous 2 games coming back, some central to the game like Garrus and Tali, so more tertiary like Kaiden and Liara.  And some of the previously tertiary characters in 2 taking on more central roles.

[grayfox4000]

Because of the complexity of mass effect 2 I think anything is possible for mass effect 3. There will be a wide range of possible outcomes and everybody will be playable in some way in ME3. Also if they can rebuild shepard they sure as hell can rebuild anybody who died. I think how they will do it is like this.



Anybody who dies in ME2 and ME1 will just not show up in ME3. Or will be rebuilt. All the old characters are critical to the end story of ME3. I don't think a new cast will cut it with fans. Bioware makes that the fans want. If we want all the original characters in the game we are going to get it. Same way we got our Tali fan service. I also demand a extension on the Tali romance continued in ME3 I want to bloody marry her and stuff after we kill the reapers d@me it.



Because everything you choose in ME2 will have big impacts in what happens in ME3. Games are evolving and ME3 will prob be far more complex the ME3 as they perfected the system in ME2 as it is. They can do things faster now. ME3 was being made at the same time ME2 and ME1 was being made so I don't think there will be a issue.



I think you will beable to recruit the ones who got powerful after you help them finish what they started in ME2. And I don't think Tali will go for a seat in the fotila fleet. Well you can always exile her and force her to stay with you. Shes not going to leave you if you exile her and then fall in love with her. She doesn't even like goverment stuff. Its clear through the whole game she loves you from the start of her recruiting mission, and more so in her trial. If you tell her key things she will admit it in some way before the romance even.



I don't think they will just brush that aside in ME3. Because the game was made to carry on where you left off. If they are true to their system they will allow any possible outcome happen. I beleave bioware planned this from the start as they already said all 3 games where thought of at the same time and are to be linkable as one game though save games and the choices you make will be more well known in the 3rd one then in any of the others and ME2 was pretty critical to who you'd be able to play as in ME3 who ever survives from ME1 to ME2 will be playable in ME3.



They'd have to. It only makes sense to go down that path. Also notice you make allies of others even big ones like a possible alliance with the geth. Thats going to be a big turn around in ME3 if you choose that path as a possible allie in ME3. You can just do soo much in ME2 it will be insane to see how ME3 turns out with all your choices. Best game continuation ever with the saved game and choices idea.

[Nozybidaj]

Pauravi wrote...
  Fanservice or not, their parts were extraordinarily well written and well acted,

Agreed, Tali and Garrus are great examples of the kind of real character development we could have had with the original cast if they hadn't been completely replaced.

Bioware knows that people will get attached to the characters, that is one of the reasons they take such care to write them well and endear them to us.  They are a way to get the player emotionally connected to the story, and scrapping the relationships that they get us to spend so long building is counterproductive to their goals as writers and storycrafters. 

I think you give them too much credit.  They just proved with ME2 that they don't give a vorcha's ass if player's get attached to a particular character or not.  They literally came out and called those who may disagree with their treatment of the old LI's acceptable losses.  That doesn't exactly sound to me like they really care at all what player's think of the characters.

Liara is the way she is for good reason by the way, they didn't screw her up. 

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I'll just have to disagree with you.  She is completely out of character, but considering the general course of ME2 I suppose that isn't entirely unexpected.  /shrug