169 réponses à ce sujet

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Pauravi wrote...
  Fanservice or not, their parts were extraordinarily well written and well acted,

Agreed, Tali and Garrus are great examples of the kind of real character development we could have had with the original cast if they hadn't been completely replaced.

Bioware knows that people will get attached to the characters, that is one of the reasons they take such care to write them well and endear them to us.  They are a way to get the player emotionally connected to the story, and scrapping the relationships that they get us to spend so long building is counterproductive to their goals as writers and storycrafters. 

I think you give them too much credit.  They just proved with ME2 that they don't give a vorcha's ass if player's get attached to a particular character or not.  They literally came out and called those who may disagree with their treatment of the old LI's acceptable losses.  That doesn't exactly sound to me like they really care at all what player's think of the characters.

Liara is the way she is for good reason by the way, they didn't screw her up. 

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I'll just have to disagree with you.  She is completely out of character, but considering the general course of ME2 I suppose that isn't entirely unexpected.  /shrug

Tali and Garrus being LI's in ME2 completely contradicts that.

[Wildhide]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Pauravi wrote...
  Fanservice or not, their parts were extraordinarily well written and well acted,

Agreed, Tali and Garrus are great examples of the kind of real character development we could have had with the original cast if they hadn't been completely replaced.

Bioware knows that people will get attached to the characters, that is one of the reasons they take such care to write them well and endear them to us.  They are a way to get the player emotionally connected to the story, and scrapping the relationships that they get us to spend so long building is counterproductive to their goals as writers and storycrafters. 

I think you give them too much credit.  They just proved with ME2 that they don't give a vorcha's ass if player's get attached to a particular character or not.  They literally came out and called those who may disagree with their treatment of the old LI's acceptable losses.  That doesn't exactly sound to me like they really care at all what player's think of the characters.

Liara is the way she is for good reason by the way, they didn't screw her up. 

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I'll just have to disagree with you.  She is completely out of character, but considering the general course of ME2 I suppose that isn't entirely unexpected.  /shrug

You have to read the comic they put out about her following ME1 for it to make sense.

[ShadyKat]

Since ME3 is the Grand Finally of the trilogy, imo it would be weak to make an entire new team. Matter of fact I think their should only be a few new team members. The Reapers were massing to start their attack, so 2 - 3 years isn't passing this time. So I don't see why your crew would abandon you this time. Everyone that survived should be back in your crew, as well as some of the old crew (Wrex, Kaidan/Ash and Liara). All hell looks to be about to break loose in ME3, so I would want to spend 20 hours of the game recruiting new team members. The devs should just wrap the series up with the people we know and trust, but sprinkle in a few new faces.

[Nozybidaj]

yf2489 wrote...

It simply would make no sense to bring in an entirely new cast of squaddies when you spent so much time building relationships with characters for the last 2 games.

We spent an entire first game building relationships with a crew, gaining their loyalty and saving the galaxy.  What sense would it make to remove them from ME2?

See where I'm going with this?  yeah....

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

yf2489 wrote...

It simply would make no sense to bring in an entirely new cast of squaddies when you spent so much time building relationships with characters for the last 2 games.

We spent an entire first game building relationships with a crew, gaining their loyalty and saving the galaxy.  What sense would it make to remove them from ME2?

See where I'm going with this?  yeah....

ME1 had a much larger storyline. and there wasn't even HALF as much character development. You didn't have to do jack to get loyalty. They were loyal and did what you said pretty much no matter what you did. Wrex only mattered depening on your charm/intimidate skill.

ME2 IS character driven and development. To throw away those characters that the ENTIRE game existed around, would create a HUGE point of meaninglessness. ME2 would become essentially inconsequential; it may as well have not existed.

[tmelange]

In ME3, we will find out that after the original attack on the Normandy 1, Shep's body was actually recovered by the Collectors, and the entirety of ME2 was simply a dream sequence while Shep has been in stasis being rebuilt as the Reaper representative. We will have a new hero and Shep will be the bad guy. Thus will the mining of KotOR and the various references to Star Wars come full circle.

Modifié par tmelange, 02 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[Nozybidaj]

KainrycKarr wrote...

ME2 IS character driven and development. To throw away those characters that the ENTIRE game existed around, would create a HUGE point of meaninglessness. ME2 would become essentially inconsequential; it may as well have not existed.

I agree actually.  Only you seem to see that as a bad thing...

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ME2 IS character driven and development. To throw away those characters that the ENTIRE game existed around, would create a HUGE point of meaninglessness. ME2 would become essentially inconsequential; it may as well have not existed.

I agree actually.  Only you seem to see that as a bad thing...

Ah yes, I forgot you were one of those pessimistic naysayers who thought ME2 was atrocious. They should make a museum for such a rare species.

[mmmu]

I don't think the Bioware writers have just written ME1 and ME2 without keeping the last part in mind. They know what they are doing. They don't just suddenly realize now that wait... I don't know what to write anymore. I'm sure they have a sketch in their mind. I don't expect every mate to be written into a big role, but I expect a few to make it.

Liara and Kaidan/Ashley are the best bets, because they can not be dead and I believe that was a considered choice and they have planned notable roles and use for them in the last part of the trilogy.

[KainrycKarr]

mmmu wrote...

I don't think the Bioware writers have just written ME1 and ME2 without keeping the last part in mind. They know what they are doing. They don't just suddenly realize now that wait... I don't know what to write anymore. I'm sure they have a sketch in their mind. I don't expect every mate to be written into a big role, but I expect a few to make it.
Liara and Kaidan/Ashley are the best bets, because they can not be dead and I believe that was a considered choice and they have planned notable roles and use for them in the last part of the trilogy.

Kaidan/Ashley are just as likely to be dead as Tali/Garrus.

I think the ME3 crew will basically be ME1's, minus Ashley or Kaidan and Wrex, with some ME2 survivors and/or new characters. Liara is the only true guarantee.

But Tali and Garrus' collective popularity pretty much solidifies the need for close imo.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 02 février 2010 - 01:32 .

[Nozybidaj]

KainrycKarr wrote...


Ah yes, I forgot you were one of those pessimistic naysayers who thought ME2 was atrocious.

I never once said I thought ME2 was atrocious.  Apparently your foresight is as poor as your interpretation of the story events.  

In fact I thought ME2 as a game is pretty well done overall.  The story and most of the characters are simply too weak to stand on their own.  They are just one part of it though and don't make a whole game.

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...


Ah yes, I forgot you were one of those pessimistic naysayers who thought ME2 was atrocious.

I never once said I thought ME2 was atrocious.  Apparently your foresight is as poor as your interpretation of the story events.  

In fact I thought ME2 as a game is pretty well done overall.  The story and most of the characters are simply too weak to stand on their own.  They are just one part of it though and don't make a whole game.

If the ME2 crew is gone, that leaves pretty much Joker and Shepard knowing about the events of ME2.

The vast majority of the game revolves around building the best team in the galaxy.

Introducing a new crew would make zero sense in a story fashion. The most realistical way for Bioware to do it would be to add the ME1 survivors to the ME2 survives, plus 1 or 2 newbies.


The following seems indicative of your dislike for ME2.

Nozybidaj wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ME2
IS character driven and development. To throw away those characters
that the ENTIRE game existed around, would create a HUGE point of
meaninglessness. ME2 would become essentially inconsequential; it may
as well have not existed.

I agree actually.  Only you seem to see that as a bad thing...

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 02 février 2010 - 01:40 .

[Colonel_Temp]

I think if a character dies, then either their 'plot' would be changed like how Wrex and the krogans are slightly different, or their plot will simply be closed off for your character, or made more difficult. If Tali survives and you help her out then gaining quarian assistance would be easier, if she dies then the quarians would probably dislike you, but that doesn't mean you still couldn't earn their support.

[samuraix87]

i see the me2 squad playing a big role if all lived or some died in me3 why go get more new people if you didnt make the right choices for the suicide mission it should be a a big part of the last game if you came out with everyone alive or dead or with some dead new squadmates would suck i see us having to try and recruit ashley/kaiden wrex and liara in me3

[marshalleck]

Colonel_Temp wrote...

I think if a character dies, then either their 'plot' would be changed like how Wrex and the krogans are slightly different, or their plot will simply be closed off for your character, or made more difficult. If Tali survives and you help her out then gaining quarian assistance would be easier, if she dies then the quarians would probably dislike you, but that doesn't mean you still couldn't earn their support.

The email you get from the Quarian Admiralty when she first transfers to the SR-2 hints this just might be exactly how it plays out. They say if any harm comes to her under your command that they will do everything they can to seek justice.

[Series5Ranger]

SuSuSudio wrote...

FYI - when a writer pitches a trilogy (mostly talking books here, but same applies to games) they pitch the entire series, not just 1 book at a time. The publisher (EA) would not have signed off on ME2 if ME3 hadn't been plotted and planned effectively.

Don't stress

The trilogy was "Pitched" before the EA takeover iirc.

[Series5Ranger]

SuSuSudio wrote...

Now that EDI "is" the Normandy, I really don't see them killing it again. It'd be killing a great character off just when it had started to develop. EDI's on an upward trajectory, she'll be around for a while

Well you Could Download her core AI personality or take out her Quantum Blue Box and then Download her into the new ship.

[marshalleck]

Series5Ranger wrote...

SuSuSudio wrote...

Now that EDI "is" the Normandy, I really don't see them killing it again. It'd be killing a great character off just when it had started to develop. EDI's on an upward trajectory, she'll be around for a while

Well you Could Download her core AI personality or take out her Quantum Blue Box and then Download her into the new ship.

It would have to be the very same blue box. The codex entries and developer posts are very specific on this point that transferring an AI's "program" to a new blue box will result in a different personality.

[Souai]

I'm thinking we'll probably get cameos, or at the very most a guest spot on the team for missions that involve them.  I can see ways that the core four could easily have been major characters again in the third game, had it not been for the fact that they can be dead going into ME3. I especially expect to see Tali/Legion
and Jacob/Miranda play a significant part if alive in those two
expected plot points.  Garrus is harder to place into the current
existing information about him.

I'm thinking we may get to see Garrus in some form on a turian world.  I'm hoping he'll lose a bit of the crazy vigilantism edges he fell into in the second game and return to a different job within his home society.  Though thinking about the threat of the Reapers and his actions in the first games this resolution would feel a little forced without a secondary reason, particularly if you romanced him.  Honestly, I have the hardest time coming up for something reasonable for Garrus; he feels inextricably stuck to my paragon female shepard character who had no romantic partner in ME1.  We don't know about his family and turian customs as far as I know, but it would feel like a reach when he's already forsaken about everything for shepard.  I'm very scared that he's going to get killed off in some fasion early in the game if he's not already dead going into ME3 

Tali would appear either as an exile or admiral as part of the negotiation for settling the dispute between the Geth and Quarians, probably resulting in the Quarians getting their homeworld back.  A form of Legion would probably be in here as well.  How is BioWare going to handle the possiblity of Tali being exiled to the Normandy OR being dead?

Then maybe we'll get to see Jacob/Miranda as part of an Earth or sol colony/base mission, that settles the differences with the Illusive man and resolves the choice at the end of ME2.

As for the minor and dying squad characters:

We may get a cameo of Thane on his deathbed, but I don't know, lung diseases are kind of iffy for touching last moments.  I'm guessing if the age of 50 thrown around for Mordin is accurate he's going down around the same time as Thane (I have trouble believing the age) and have a similar cameo early in the game that varies depending on your ME2 status.  Honestly Grunt is probably fine with a cameo for the big battle.  Maybe I'm weird but I didn't feel all that attached to him.  He's born from a tank and finds his place in Krogan society, great.  He'll probably return to it in between the action of the first two games. Jack is so unpredictable it's pretty easy to write her whereever the devs want.  As for Samara/Morinth, I have no idea.  It really would depend on where the plot goes and what modules they have planned.  I would be surprised if the DLC characters do anything more than a quick cameo and drop a handful of lines.

Final notes: 

Maybe it's because I like them so much, but Tali and Garrus are really hard for me to write off the Normandy without something serious happening to either them or Shepard.  Maybe they'll just be around like the crew in ME2 and have a conversation tree with a subsection that only exists if you romanced them in the previous game.  I'm assuming the Cerberus crew is getting axed regardless of the outcome of ME2, maybe the old characters who played an active role in maintaining the ship (Tali, Garrus, Mordin, Jacob, and Miranda) will stick around in the role of the crewmates of ME2 and be replaced if dead by some unknown second option when dead?  I think Tali's window of opportunity to become the new admiral will pass because of the suicide mission regardless, so she could be on the ship no matter the outcome.  Mordin already passed his clinic on and is ancient by Salarian standards; he's probably fine staying on the Normany until he dies.  Chakas, Joker and EDI could probably stay on the ship as well.

tl;dr:

It's hard to say what approach is realistic for living imports to ME3 without knowing the timing of the third act.   The sooner it happens, the more I see a cameo for minor characters, keep major characters (Garrus, Tali, Mordin, Jacob, and Miranda) on the ship with Joker, Chakas, and EDI.  If there's a significant delay in the beginning of the third act because of whatever reason, then I expect the crew to split again and to have guest missions with Garrus, Tali/Legion, and Miranda/Jacob on a turian world, the quarian homeworld and earth/sol. 

[RiouHotaru]

I fully assume that the point of ME3 will have a different focus. In ME1, you were investigating sources to attain information to stop Saren. In ME2, you were gathering a crew to take on the Collectors. Now, with that crew, ME3 will likely involve (depending on whether you're Paragon or Renegade) attempting to either gain the allegiance of the different species against the Reapers (Paragon) or possibly stealing their stuff to develop a countermeasure (Renegade).



I can see where there'd be no point to have both Liara AND Samara on your squad at the same time. I assume that, at least with Liara/Samara, and Wrex/Grunt (assuming Wrex decides to come with you at all) you'll get a choice. As for the rest of the cast? Considering ME3 is no-holds-barred, NOTHING held back, having a group of 13 characters in a game that's likely to be long and epic? Feels completely natural.