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Happy Endings - PLEASE Bioware


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#1
Zwomann

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I am just a somtimes gamer - and I love the game - the graphics were good enough for me, I liked the theme (don't get into the space theme ones too much), liked the gameplay (I am a mother of 4 and constantly get interrupted so I love the pausing ability),  I think the voices were *awesome* - and I am TOTALLY in love with Alistair... lol       I know - I am lame.    :-)   They could double his dialog and I still would want more! I smile everytime I think of the line "I haven't had the pleasurrreeeee..." lol    Gosh, I can't wait to get home and find time to play tonight!

My only complaint is that there should be more ways for happy endings... (spoiler) ... it should have let others besides human nobles end up with him and no one important dying. I mean - I spent how many hours of my life in this game - I want to feel good about it. This is my entertainment when I can claw my way away from the responsibilities of my life - I can't WAIT until I can find time to play the game for a few more hours.

I am not to the ending yet - only just got to Denerim. I wanted a wallpaper of Alistair and did a google search and when stuff like "Alistair dies" and "Alistair rejects you" comes up I freaked and HAD to click on the spoilers - I found out about the ending and started OVER as a human noble. I would have been LIVID and not even considered an expansion pack if I would have gotten one of those nasty endings with my mage after like 100 hours of gameplay...  I know - lame - but I need romance SOMEWHERE - lol. It was unexpected and TOTALLY damn delightful. That's part of the reason why I LOVE LOVE LOVE the game and not just say "It's a great game".

Anyway, I didn't think I could love a game more than Fable, but Bioware got my attention. I will really follow their stuff now. I hope someone at Bioware reads this and takes it as a consideration in the future. There has got to be others that feel the same way about allowing more happy endings... Image IPB

#2
errant_knight

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There's some discussion in this thread as to why some of us don't want a straight forward 'happy' ending:

http://social.biowar...47/index/881240



You will see that there are some who agree, but others (including myself ;) who think that would do the game a disservice.

#3
Barbarossa2010

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Agreed Zwomman. Talking about unhappy endings, try being a male HN PC and romance Morrigan. There's no good way out. It's not an unhappy ending really, but a slaughtering. I think, at least for female PCs romancing Alistair, there are options where you can wrangle a happy ending. With Morrigan, you never will primarily due to dialogue options that are unfair and out of character during the Dark Ritual conversation.

I'm with you, after 60 hours of clawing my way through Ferelden, I ended feeling pretty empty and, honestly, cheated. I enjoyed the game, but really hated my ending.

Happy endings would definitely be preferred, but I guess the writers didn't think we had enough betrayal in the story already, because this is supposed to be "Dark Fantasy," whatever that means. I guess it means hours of investment in the game with bad endings.

Peace

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 01 février 2010 - 09:59 .


#4
Sandtigress

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Actually, minus the fact that **spoiler***** I didn't think Alistair would actually leave the party over Loghain **spoiler** I've been very satisfied with the endings because they felt more realistic than a happy-go-lucky type story, of which Dragon Age has a few but not many.



My Dalish elf and I thought it was fair, though very tragic, that he had to end things with her when he became king. He was right - he needed an heir, she couldn't give him one, probably even if she had been untainted, being an elf. We both appreciated his honor in not stringing us along while he married another woman and had children with her. Doesn't mean either of us LIKED that idea, but it was realistic.



But then, tragic romance seems to be something a forte for me, so I guess that's a part of it. :-P

#5
Zwomann

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Well, I see your point - what I was trying to say that there should be more opportunties to CHOOSE a happy ending no matter how you start out or if you make one wrong dialog choice. You guys can still have your dark stuff :-)

#6
Loerwyn

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Go play Hello Kitty or something.

It sounds harsh, and I apologise, but you don't play dark fantasy games (nor read dark fantasy stories) for happy endings. It's like reading Lovecraft or Poe and expecting everyone to be all happy.

#7
Jaulen

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*bah* Life isn't a happy ending. I've loved all the endings I've gotten so far. It's been a series of amazing adventures and *oopses*



That's what RPing is for, especially in a dark fantasy...you have to find the silver lining in the storm clouds.



This is so much more fun and involved than a *everyone gets a happy ending* storyline. I think THAT'S what makes people care so much about the characters.

It would lose alot (at least for me) if I played and knew no matter what I did or what choices I made everything would turn out smelling like never-dying roses.

#8
ejoslin

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I want to point out that there are plenty of happy endings with Alistair, even ones where he remains with the Warden and stays faithful to her forever. But you can't become queen if you're not noble -- this is a human kingdom. I think the Zevran romance also can give a fairy-tale type ending.



However, there are no hearts-and-roses here. You're still going to die young, you're still going to be living with nightmares for the rest of your short life, you're still going to feel the call of the darkspawn, you're still most likely never going to have children. It's not a pretty world you're in, but you're strong and can survive it, and survive it well. Perhaps even rule a country and find an enduring love. How does it get much better?

#9
Slayanor

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Wow. Really would it be that bad for a few happier options?

#10
Nonvita

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But part of the fun is in not being able to get exactly the ending you want!

Even after realizing and accepting the fact that my CE would never have a happy ending with Alistair, the ending I felt would work "best" for her ended up being subverted by an inescapable change in events. I'd planned to have her sacrifice herself, but Alistair ended up doing it himself, much to her chagrine. Obviously, it's not the type of happy ending you're looking for at all, but after some cursing and yelling and general bouts of anger at not getting the ending I'd planned on, I realized it still gave plenty of opportunity for a more compelling story than the one I'd envisioned. (And she did find happiness with Zevran in the end, which helped me to reevaluate his character for the better.)

For me personally, I don't think happy endings really suit the tone of the whole game. BUT, I do think there are enough happy (or "happy") endings out there for those who want them. Becoming Queen alongside Alistair as an HNF is one, but it's there for other origins too if you're willing to put Anora on the throne and, of course, hand Alistair over to Morrigan for a few minutes.

There's enough variety and surprise that it suits me just fine. 

#11
ciaweth

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I don't think we'll really know who ends up happy and who doesn't until the whole Dragon Age storyline ends, and that'll take years. In the meantime, people will have their ups and downs. Perhaps the characters you like are just on a downswing at the moment, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel you can herd some of them toward. Unless you killed them, that is!

#12
Monica21

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Slayanor wrote...

Wow. Really would it be that bad for a few happier options?

I don't think it would be bad, but I don't think it would be fitting. This is a world where your job is stopping a dark force of evil from destroying civilization. There are going to be difficult decisions and no one can come out a winner all the time.

For what it's worth, I think there are plenty of happy endings given the circumstances. I won't get into them all, but they're there.

#13
TheBlackBaron

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Heh, you wanna talk about unhappy endings, look at the Morrigan romance. It's literally impossible for that to end well and is pretty depressing no matter the outcome. Not that you can really expect anything else - as Frank Sinatra sings, "That's life".

I'm with Jaulen - part of appeal of this game, like most other RPGs (the Fallout series comes to mind), is that you have really have to earn that happy ending, and even then, it may not turn out exactly like you hoped, you just have to try and find the silver lining. That's just realistic.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 01 février 2010 - 10:49 .


#14
Nonvita

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TheBlackBaron wrote...

Heh, you wanna talk about unhappy endings, look at the Morrigan romance. It's literally impossible for that to end well and is pretty depressing no matter the outcome. Not that you can really expect anything else - as Frank Sinatra sings, "That's life".

I'm with Jaulen - part of appeal of this game, like most other RPGs (the Fallout series comes to mind), is that you have really have to earn that happy ending, and even then, it may not turn out exactly like you hoped, you just have to try and find the silver lining. That's just realistic.


Yeah, you can't have everything be happy--there will always be something bad in the mix--so you have to choose what means the most to you. Do you value love and are willing to do whatever it takes to protect that? Or do you value power and find happiness in being King/Queen? Do you value the lives of others enough to sacrifice yourself?

There may not be ways to make everything work, but there are ways to find happiness in most of the endings, even if only a little.

#15
SuperMedbh

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I've had two endings after an Alistair romance, one in which my mage made him king and got dumped. She felt so rotten that she went off by herself for a while with Dog. Actually managed to survive getting jumped by werewolves, despite my not being a solo level player. I think she just took out her aggression on the poor werewolves.



My elf character was much more in love with him, so she put Anora in power despite her (justified) apprehensions. And she took Morrigan's offer, again despite some obvious reasons not to. So, in the end, yes she was with the Man She Loved, but she'd had to compromise on a few lofty principles. But that felt right for a ghetto elf girl-- life hadn't been fair to her, life wasn't going to ever be fair thanks to the taint, so she was for grabbing what little happiness there was out there.



I think both of those story arcs felt a lot more real than a Cinderella happy ever after ending. Not that I'd mind a nice wedding cutscene, mind you!

#16
_Aine_

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From the moment you survive The Joining, you have started a slow death of sorts. You may find moments of happiness along the way, steal them when you can get them, but in many ways the clock is ticking for you. My real-me says awww and at times wants there to be at least a happy and easier option but because it is *not* easy to have one in RL -- escapism wants me to have something tied up with a bow, and pretty. But, for the most part, I don't look to games to fill gaping holes in my real life lol Sometimes, a happy ending is nice though, if only for a moments dream.

Some of my characters start relationships in the game for love, and some for a fun diversion with people they truly *like* even though love may not have one iota to do with it. But many, despite actions with some feeling have resigned themself to a life of satisfaction rather than one of Happiness (happy endings). She steals moments of happiness and pleasure here and there, but knows as a Grey Warden, her life has essential been chosen for her. She is bound and married to her duty, and has forsaken herself anything else (maybe to save her own heart) and when she does fall in love, its an accident as she knows there will be many a tear on all accounts, but decides it is worth it for the time.

This is probably why in some respects those characters feel as they do for the others: She likes Zevran because he makes her smile, and he finds moments of happiness where he can also. Alistair for being her at her most naive and innocent in some aspects...still green i suppose. Loghain even, for turning his back in his needs, for duty - as this is what her life now demands to a great extent that she do as well... ( pre-game era that one mind you.)

In this game, there is no typical happy ending for some, depending on what you think happy endings are. A female elf will never marry her love and become queen. Without dark magic, you or your companion (at minimum ) will die. At best, you will die long before you have grandchildren, IF you can manage to have a child at all....if you manage to SURVIVE at all...

But maybe your idea of happy is destroying the dark threat of the Blight. Maybe happiness is being ABLE to put your love, needs and dreams aside and doing something for humanity, even though this holds your death. Maybe happiness is paving the way for a future for humanity... so it isn't for me in a utopian world but this isn't that utopia.

This is drama. It places me in an epic adventure where I may not get the happily - ever - afters but i DO get a tale worthy of re-telling, a game worthy of replaying and yes, many an angry rant at my monitor. It also has given me many moments of pause, where I sit later, somewhat solemnly, hand over my mouth deep in thought, far from the game but close to some idea it brought to me.

I read the books and more than once I stopped reading because I just had to... WAIT. There are moments of beauty and reverence that can be found in things that hold a lot of pain, discomfort or sorrow. I can't say this game made me happy, but I can say that it made me FEEL like I was a part of that world for a time. It made me laugh out loud, WANT to either kill or save people, like or hate them, regardless for happy or sad, it made me care about the outcome.

For a short period of time, i existed elsewhere within a world refreshingly more difficult than my own :) And that made me happy. :) (Plus i looked super cute when I did it. WIN! )

Modifié par shantisands, 01 février 2010 - 11:50 .


#17
Freckles04

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Shantisands, that's a really nice post. I especially agreed with:



I can't say this game made me happy, but I can say that it made me FEEL like I was a part of that world for a time. It made me laugh out loud, WANT to either kill or save people, like or hate them, regardless for happy or sad, it made me care about the outcome.




I played my first runthrough unspoiled as an elven mage romancing Alistair and the dumping post-Landsmeet shocked me. I felt heartbroken. Over a game!



But I wouldn't trade that playthrough for anything. It wasn't a happy ending, but it was certainly a memorable one with much more impact than a fairytale-type where my hero and I rode off into the sunset.



I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the "happy" endings for DA:O turned out to be not so happy come the expansion and sequels. It just seems like a BioWare kind of thing to do. (And I say that in as loving a way as possible, BioWare folks.)

#18
Gold Dragon

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My Happiest Playthru, ironically, was the City Elf. And she did the Ultimate Sacrifice (all others had done the Dark Ritual).



She had touched so many, that even King Alistair (whom she had deliberately not romanced) was hoping that she would stay with him forever (Bugged, she had accidentally triggered the romance after Landsmeet. And furthermore, had she survived, she would have fled Ferelden never to return.)

#19
Musou1776

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I like stories with happy endings AND GRIFFONS.

#20
Freckles04

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Musou1776 wrote...

I like stories with happy endings AND GRIFFONS.


Maker's breath, it's like talking to a child!

:lol:

#21
TheBlackBaron

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Musou1776 wrote...

I like stories with happy endings AND GRIFFONS.



:lol:

#22
SuperMedbh

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Griffons!

#23
_Aine_

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Freckles04 wrote...

Musou1776 wrote...

I like stories with happy endings AND GRIFFONS.


Maker's breath, it's like talking to a child!

:lol:


:P

#24
Zwomann

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Riding a dragon would be neater... lol

#25
ciaweth

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Freckles04 wrote...

But I wouldn't trade that playthrough for anything. It wasn't a happy ending, but it was certainly a memorable one with much more impact than a fairytale-type where my hero and I rode off into the sunset.


It's funny how used we (and I really am including myself here) are to the concept that a happy ending means the female doesn't ride off into the sunset, romantically unattached.  Cowboys do it all the time, but ladies end up marrying the prince, or whatever.  Getting ditched by Alistair messed me up good, and I avoid that scenario like the plague now, but it highlighted to me that my kickbutt Warden didn't *have* to have him to be happy.

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the "happy" endings for DA:O turned out to be not so happy come the expansion and sequels. It just seems like a BioWare kind of thing to do. (And I say that in as loving a way as possible, BioWare folks.)


Yes, I'm positive that I'm going to regret some of the things I did in all my playthroughs to date.  When the expansion comes out, if they throw too many curveballs, I may have to play through the whole of Origins again.  I'm paranoid about all my decisions now. 
  • O NOES, what if by making Alistair king, I set him up for an assassination, whereas if I'd pissed him off and let Loghain live, Alistair would be alive now?!
  • What if, by hardening Alistair, I made it so that he will eventually get tired of my crap and dump me anyway?
  • If I romance Zevran or Leliana will they someday screw up my life?
  • All the Mage Collective quests:  WTF HAVE I DONE?  Some of this is very shady.
  • Do I want to be messing around with these Red Jenny people?
  • What if I killed the very last high dragon?!
  • How many children have I orphaned just by going and doing what needed to be done to fix the Blight problem?
  • Morrigan = uh, worrisome.
  • Flemeth = uh, worrisome.
  • You get the picture.  :D