187 réponses à ce sujet

[ReubenLiew]

No that's the crux of it isn't it? Compromise has always been the only way to a happy life in this world, I don't see why it shouldn't be any different in the game.

What I don't understand about the OP is why she thinks only the human noble is allowed a perfect ending, which means that she somehow understands that only if Alistair is king and she is queen this counts as a happy ending.

Can't a couple just be together without having a great status in society and still be happy?

[Zwomann]

You know... having a game that looks real is one thing... but all the stuff about wanting a realistic ending... I think I kinda tossed out the realistic ending debate when I started playing a game with dragons and magic... lol



All I know is I wanted to be an elf mage... then got halfway through the game and found out by accident the ending and got really pissed off. I wanted to be with Alistair and be queen darnit... that is MY definition of happy and since I have an emotional investment as well as many hours of my life poured in this game... I think I should be able to be smiling and content at the end of the game but wanting more. Not pissed off, disappointed and reluctant to play again. Isn't Bioware's goal to keep evereyone (not just realists) to buy more games and expansion packs?



You can crack on me for being a softie and not realistic... you can argue that I am not looking at is right and that there are indeed happy endings in there... but I feel what I feel and I think a king should be able to pick whatever wife he wants.

[ReubenLiew]

Well then there's your problem.

[ejoslin]

Being queen (princess-consort) is not necessarily a happy ending. My human noble female married Alistair out of duty, not love. The human noble male is not marrying Anora out of love. For both, though, if they do have a true love, if they're lucky, that lover will stay with them (at least one of the romance choices will stay, though the other leaves unless modded). Why is it so wrong staying with Alistair and not being queen? He'll never love another, and that is what truly is important.

And these are choices you are making -- in the example I give above, your lover has no choice in the matter, just stay with you or go. However, you choose to put Alistair on the throne, or not. You already know that mages cannot hold titles and are feared by the people, and that this is a human kingdom, so an elf or dwarf being queen would not be acceptable.

Anyway, there are a lot of mods out there that will change things up and give you the ending you want. I personally feel it cheapens the power of the love, where Alistair is willing to go against all he thinks is right and his duty to stay with the woman he loves. But that is my opinion, and obviously it is not shared by a lot of women.

Edit: And Alistair is not marrying the human noble female out of love -- it's political, though if there's love there, it's an added bonus.  He knows as king he can't marry who he wants -- the fact that the woman he loves is a Cousland is a very happy coincidence.  That's all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[ReubenLiew]

I'm a man, but I agree with Ejoslin on this. Wanting to be queen no matter your rank cheapens the background of the universe we play in. In this case why can't my human be a dwarf paragon? Or even a dwarf be a leader of the elves? Or hell, why can't my non-mage be the Head Enchanter of the Mages circle?

Stuff are in the game for a reason, and demanding that the king put whatever he wants as queen makes the game a whole less substantial, where there are no point to ranks, races or politics.

It'll become those cheesy romantic novels where everyone's happy regardless of how obvious the repurcussions are to the readers, because hey the plot demands they be happy. It's like how the man can get away with raping the leading woman because hell he's hot and he's good with his fingers O_o

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 03 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[Langbein Rise]

If I want to be sure to have a happy ending, I would watch a Hollywood movie...

[Zwomann]

Whatever

[Zwomann]

Ok... I get it... this game is not for people like me. I will shutup... it is what it is. I guess I should be glad I figured that ou before I bought the expansion pack.

[ejoslin]

Heh, an elf, a dwarf, or a mage is not going to be queen in this world, especially at a time where you're trying to unite the country, not divide it, so you can defeat the blight. If that is upsetting, and if you are not playing on a PC, you're probably right. But by only having one acceptable ending, and one that goes against all the game lore, you're cheating yourself. All people are doing is trying to point out to you that there are a LOT of endings there, and while they may not be what you initially envisioned, they can be absolutely wonderful anyway.

[Kohaku]

I agree with ejoslin.



I chose to be Queen in my first play though after carefully metagaming my way though it. It didn't really feel happy. I'm at the point where I don't think any Gray Warden should even hold a political position. That muddies the politics in an already messed up world. Do we really need more backstabbing in Dragon Age? Actually, yes we do. XD



I guess for you Zwomann being Queen is happy. I personally can't see where the happiness comes in but to each it's own.

[Euteras]

shantisands wrote...
From the moment you survive The Joining ... And that made me happy. (Plus i looked super cute when I did it. WIN! )

Very good post. You described how I feel when I'm reading a good book. I feel like I'm there. A part of the story. DA has that quality to it also. A little diversion from r/l is nice every now and then.

[Xavier Eledhwen]

IMO this IS a fantasy game and there is no reason why you couldn't have a fantasy happy ending. As for the "Realism" crap, if you followed that logic, every time you died in battle you would have to restart the game, because dead is dead. Also, if you really want to be realistic, no restore previous game, after all life has no reset button.



But I enjoyed playing it anyways even if I didn't like the ending options, and I will most likely buy awakenings

[GregorLightbringer]

I think the issue here is either realistic endings or fairytale endings. Since this IS a fantasy game, it can be whatever the writer wants. Even a balance between the 2. This game is designed to be a dark fantasy so the endings fit. If I wasn't such a idiot about the toolset, I would try to write something as an example.

[Sabriana]

Well, for what it's worth, I so far had:

An initially unhappy ending that turned on its head and into a surprisingly happy ending

One very happy ending

One (on ice) that will be a happy ending

One (in progress) that will also be a happy ending after a few twists and turns.

All my PCs are human females, and not one of them will end up queen. Because

a) Alistair really doesn't want to be king, so he gets Anora as a help-mate and he can go galivating around Ferelden

After what they just been through, they have no interest in the administration, intrigues, and whatnot of state affairs. Power? Whatever for? Being a GW nets them far more respect and admiration, now that they are stuck with it.

c) They have no wish to become pressed into the life of Ferelden nobility, they are far too fond of their independence
Having one of my poor girls end up shackled to the throne would be a cruel thing for me to do to them.

Of course, being a Zevran fan-girl helps tremendously

[Curlain]

Yep, I liked having pathos and sacrifice (one way or another) being part of my ending, and the feeling that my characters didn't come away unscathed. That said, DA is escapism for all of us in one way or another and I don't think there shouldn't be a happy ending for those players who wish for it, there are certainly situations throughout the game that seem dire but you can resolve happily for everyone pretty much (Redcliffe, the Mages Circle, the Dalish and the werewolves etc), personally I would have preferred more consequences in some of these situations but they are as they are. So with that, I think it could be possible to work a happy ending in there for those who wish it, provided it didn't flat out contradict the lore as such (should be stated that Maric at one point in The Stolen Throne would have made, or attempted to make, the elven bard Katerial his queen, whether that was a realistic ambition or not). Maybe where Alistair to attempt to marry such a PC, there would be some more serious consequences in the expansion etc (could even make a interesting future story), but yeah it could possibly have been implemented.

In the end to the OP, it's your game, play it as you like :-)

Modifié par Curlain, 03 février 2010 - 02:40 .

[Sabriana]

Personally, I don't consider the Dalish, Redcliffe, and the Circle happy endings. The Dalish lose a lot of people, and consider poor Danyla

Redcliffe was almost destroyed, and a lot of people died horribly or were turned into undead

The Circle was also nearly anihilated, there were dead bodied all over the place, and a mage was turned into an abomination right before my PC's eyes. Cullen doesn't seem all too happy to me as well, especially because my PC decided to help the mages instead of killing them all off as per his request.

Not nit-picking, just saying....

[Jae Onasi]

Zwomann wrote...

I am just a somtimes gamer - and I love the game - the graphics were good enough for me, I liked the theme (don't get into the space theme ones too much), liked the gameplay (I am a mother of 4 and constantly get interrupted so I love the pausing ability),  I think the voices were *awesome* - and I am TOTALLY in love with Alistair... lol       I know - I am lame.    :-)   They could double his dialog and I still would want more! I smile everytime I think of the line "I haven't had the pleasurrreeeee..." lol    Gosh, I can't wait to get home and find time to play tonight! .....Anyway, I didn't think I could love a game more than Fable, but Bioware got my attention. I will really follow their stuff now. I hope someone at Bioware reads this and takes it as a consideration in the future. There has got to be others that feel the same way about allowing more happy endings...

Welcome to Bioware games--they're awesome.  If you like happy endings, give Kotor a try, too.  If you have the PC version, I would not be surprised to see some mods developed that would allow more happy endings, if they haven't been already.

[Barbarossa2010]

Zwomann wrote...

Ok... I get it... this game is not for people like me. I will shutup... it is what it is. I guess I should be glad I figured that ou before I bought the expansion pack.

Zwomann, that's pretty much the way I feel about it to.  60+ hours in front of my screen, $100+ spent, great effort expended in trying to do things right (leveling, crafting, tactics, decision-making, choosing dialogue options, et al) and all you're being told by those who feel that they are more "realistic" or "complex" is to STFU and go away and play "Hello Kitty."  To paraphrase Morrigan's comment to Leliana, some of you really have that whole self-righteousness thing down pat.  How insulting.  How enviable to get what you want out of the game and dissmiss those who don't as unrealistic, white picket fence, saps. 

The argument that one who desires a happy ending is not being realistic doesn't hold water and, in the end, is very hypocritical.  I mean really, how "realistic" is it to be playing an elf or dwarf, cast magic spells, fight dragons, enter the Fade to battle a Sloth Demon, or magically revive after being struck down in an engagement?   It is the contemptuous dissmissive of an adolescent who thinks they know things that other don't and are somehow part of an exclusive club.  Please.

I truly don't mean to be harsh, but there are some terrible responses in this thread.  You are certainly free to say that, but others are free to respond.  If you got what you were looking for out of this game in the end, I think that's great (and I truly mean that).  But don't pretend for an instant that that somehow makes you, in and of itself, a more realistic or complex person, or that your expectations are superior to another's.

Hang in there Zwomann.  I, for one, am glad to know that there are others that felt really let down at the end like I did.  You're not unrealistic, you have expectations and are a consumer.  Give it another sequel.  If you don't get what you want in the next installment, it'll be easy to move on and leave the game to the more "enlightened" among us.

[ejoslin]

I actually understand the anger at Alistair's ending. Unless you've been on the forums or reading a guide, it's going to end very badly. I was thinking about what a surprise the Zevran romance end is -- the Alistair romance end is just as big a surprise, but in the other direction. Being dumped, especially when you have a kind of emotional involvement, well, it hurts. As embarrassing as it is to admit that over a video game. I cry at movies, too, though.



My whole thing is, though, in my first play through, I DID end up hurt. And I ended up falling in love despite that a second time though I was a lot more cautious -- I mean literally, I was going through these feelings. And even though my ending was not what I thought it was going to be (I really thought that Alistair would make her queen, or at least stay with her, but he wasn't hardened, obviously). And I had no clue that the fling afterwards with Zevran would turn into a deep, true, lasting love. Nor did I realize that Alistair would not let my Warden kill herself on the archdemon. it was an emotional roller coaster ride. I cried and I laughed and had actual feelings for these characters. And I am looking forward to the expansion, just so I can have more of the unexpected. I won't be here on these forums until I've done at least one playthrough of that, because that experience was too amazing.



This game really does draw you in emotionally. Had I gotten my happy joy ending I was expecting, I wouldn't have gotten the rich and fulfilling ending I actually did get. It was painful and draining at times, but at the end, it was all so worth it.

[Addai]

Zwomann wrote...
All I know is I wanted to be an elf mage... then got halfway through the game and found out by accident the ending and got really pissed off. I wanted to be with Alistair and be queen darnit... that is MY definition of happy and since I have an emotional investment as well as many hours of my life poured in this game... I think I should be able to be smiling and content at the end of the game but wanting more. Not pissed off, disappointed and reluctant to play again. Isn't Bioware's goal to keep evereyone (not just realists) to buy more games and expansion packs?

You can crack on me for being a softie and not realistic... you can argue that I am not looking at is right and that there are indeed happy endings in there... but I feel what I feel and I think a king should be able to pick whatever wife he wants.

A major theme of the game is that if you want to be a good ruler, you have less freedom than everyone else.  If you want Alistair to be able to marry whomever he wants, you can't make him king.  I understand that playing along, your PC is doing the impossible all the time, but to totally break game lore for a fairytale ending would be, IMO, cheap.  Your elf mage is about the most reviled, looked-down-upon class of person that is possible to have in Ferelden.  No way would a human nobility accept her on the throne.  I think a person growing up in that world would understand that as a matter of course.

Now, I suppose they could have made it that Alistair insists on having an elf mage queen and the country goes from a Blight right back into a bitter civil war and you both are deposed and exiled.  But I am guessing that would not be the epilogue card you want to read, either!

[TheLion36]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I truly don't mean to be harsh, but there are some terrible responses in this thread.  You are certainly free to say that, but others are free to respond.  If you got what you were looking for out of this game in the end, I think that's great (and I truly mean that).  But don't pretend for an instant that that somehow makes you, in and of itself, a more realistic or complex person, or that your expectations are superior to another's.

I agree, everyone is free to say what they want and if one person wants a happy ending and the other person doesn't then thats fine and it can be discussed and it can actually be a lot of fun discussing this as long as everyone always respects the other persons opinion... Just because you don't agree with anothers opinion doesn't make his/her opinion childish or stupid!

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Hang in there Zwomann. 

Aye!  

[Barbarossa2010]

Even though I'm not a female, I think Alistair sacrificing himself for a romancing female PC at the end is an ending I get. That is an ending I could live with. I think it is the height of romantic love. Tragic yet beautiful. The bottom line is that there are more options to influence the ending for women playing the game, even if you have to compromise a bit.



No such thing exists for male PC romancing Morrigan, who appears at face value to be the Alistair equivalent for male game players.



All the investment in the game only to be kicked square in the ba!!s at the end , with all options magically stripped to influence the event and no real reason given as to the WHY...well...there's just no equivalent for those who took other paths. I certainly intend no sexism here, but I think you have to be a man, and go through every "love" dialogue option, to see the depth of the betrayal and how heavy handed the Morrigan plot line was.



Since Morrigan was so obviously the plot bridge to the future, and this was how the story was meant to be, I cannot for the life of me understand why she was a romanceable character. It was a WTF moment of rage for most male PCs at the Dark Ritual who had romanced Morrigan. It was was made even worse because all ability to influence events (as had been available to you all along as the most powerful character in Ferelden) magically disappeared. The male PC was forced to sit there, completely out of character, like a mumbling doofus while Morrigan had her way with him and was allowed to remain silent and stay in character. Not a great end to an epic heroic story. There was no upside, no give and take, no compromise and no choice. Do or die, that's it.



My character started his story with betrayal (Howe) and ended with betrayal (Morrigan). Is this where I'm supposed to say "Oh how satisfying, rich, realistic and complex" after sitting for 2 and 1/2 days in front of my TV screen? Don't hold your breath. No amount of Dark Fantasy apologetics will cover the contrived nature of this ending.



Oh did I mention that we foolish saps get to wait 2 or more years to find out if the story actually continues or we are a two-sentence grease spot on a dialogue card?



I'd say the ladies got a better deal with Alistair whatever ending you drew.

[TheLion36]

I've mentioned before that I don't think Morrigan betrayed us, especially when you romance her its easier, for me at least, to justify her leaving when you don't do the ritual, its almost like she's just extremely mad at you for being foolish enough (her words not mine) to throw your life away when an alternative is offered.

Her leaving after the final battle if you do the ritual is harder to explain without any facts tho I still think it is a must for her, something that has to be done. She clearly shows that she doesn't want to leave and is tempted to stay... She reminds me of a soldier who is being sent to fight off in a foreign land while his wife and kids stay at home, he doesn't want to go but duty demands it... One theory I have (and I have several) is that with the soul of the old god and your taint the pull on the darkspawn might be too great...

I found the ending where you go off to search for her regardless of her saying not to follow very romantic... Its not a happy ending yet but it was quite romantic...

I do agree tho that it sucks that we might have to wait for a long time until the story continues, especially when we have to play on with our characters through other story lines... You never know tho what happens in Awakening, we might get to see her again, even if she's not the companion who returns there might be some reason for her to seek us out. Considering the ritual was optional it would make for a nice side quest chain in the expansion...

Who got the better deal, well at first glance I would also say the ladies but we are also pretty biased. On the other hand our ending just screams sequel and she will be back one way or another while Alistairs ending does not...

Modifié par TheLion36, 03 février 2010 - 05:15 .

[ReubenLiew]

It's not realistic within the game's inner logic.

And I will never understand people's entitlement to a game. You may have spent over 100+ hours on the game, but the devs spent over 4 years on it. How is that they are less entitled to THEIR ending than it is to yours? 100 dollars is nothing to the millions they spent.

The game runs exactly as it's universe's logic runs, and within it's own logic it is unacceptable for their human kingdom to accept a non-human, non-noble queen just as it's within it's own logic that your dwarf noble cannot pick him/herself to be the king/queen of Orzammar.

It is not self righteous, it is stating the facts of the game. And it is of my opinion that you don't need to be queen to be happy, just as it is hers that you NEED to be queen to be happy, and now WE'RE labelled as self righteous.

There is a bias here that is staring me in the face.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

<snip>

 And I ended up falling in love despite that a second time though I was a lot more cautious -- I mean literally, I was going through these feelings. And even though my ending was not what I thought it was going to be (I really thought that Alistair would make her queen, or at least stay with her, but he wasn't hardened, obviously). And I had no clue that the fling afterwards with Zevran would turn into a deep, true, lasting love. Nor did I realize that Alistair would not let my Warden kill herself on the archdemon. it was an emotional roller coaster ride. I cried and I laughed and had actual feelings for these characters. And I am looking forward to the expansion, just so I can have more of the unexpected. I won't be here on these forums until I've done at least one playthrough of that, because that experience was too amazing.

This game really does draw you in emotionally. Had I gotten my happy joy ending I was expecting, I wouldn't have gotten the rich and fulfilling ending I actually did get. It was painful and draining at times, but at the end, it was all so worth it.

Your second play-through sounds like my first one. It was so wonderful, I never had more fun playing a game. It was completely unspoiled, satisfying, and turned all my PCs into Zevran fan-girls. That's how much of an impact the whole game had on me, the player.

Making a elf, who's a mage to boot, queen, can't happen in the world of DA:O. It would break the game lore, its background, just about everything. Now, a human mage, that might be possible, but it would involve a lot of changes to be made.

Alistair is a former templar, he could threaten the Chantry to shut up or be exposed. He could also just overrule the Chantry, and dismember their army somehow. The nobles would be another thing, but perhaps her hero-status would help. However, even that could all end in civil unrest, lickety split.

But an elven mage? I don't know any way that this could even be remotely possible.