187 réponses à ce sujet

[nYshak]

Mages cannot inherit a title or become king/queen. This rule may come from the Chantry but I'd guess its how the common Ferelden sees it as well. To make a mage king you would not only have to overrule the Chantry, you'd also have to convince anybody else. Elf or human makes no difference in that case.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Your second play-through sounds like my first one. It was so wonderful, I never had more fun playing a game. It was completely unspoiled, satisfying, and turned all my PCs into Zevran fan-girls. That's how much of an impact the whole game had on me, the player.

Making a elf, who's a mage to boot, queen, can't happen in the world of DA:O. It would break the game lore, its background, just about everything. Now, a human mage, that might be possible, but it would involve a lot of changes to be made.

Alistair is a former templar, he could threaten the Chantry to shut up or be exposed. He could also just overrule the Chantry, and dismember their army somehow. The nobles would be another thing, but perhaps her hero-status would help. However, even that could all end in civil unrest, lickety split.

But an elven mage? I don't know any way that this could even be remotely possible.

Oh, that was all my first play through.  The falling in love was a second time, and was with Zevran, whom I started up with as a fling after being harshly dumped in a crowded room.  The way the whole thing played out is why I'm such a huge Zevran fan girl as well.  It was the contrast, I think, of thinking what was true love turned out to be not enough, and then thinking what was just a casual fling also turned out to be not enough.  I was cautious enough that I cringed at Zevran's reaction to asking him if the gift meant we were married in Antiva -- it was harsh, so I accepted nothing from him.  And you know as well as I do how that ends up playing out, but it was a complete shock that first time.

The first play through, with no guides, no forums, took over 60 hours.  I would get on my computer, looking forward to the next conversation with whomever.

There's no way I feel cheated.  And in all fairness, nothing happened that I didn't have a lot of warning about.  I chose to ignore a lot of the signs.  As a lot of women tend to do.  I wanted things to be a certain way and just discounted things that said something else.

Just as I don't get upset when a book or a movie ends in a way that leaves me sad but fulfilled, I can't even get upset over the unhappy endings in dragon age.  But there are so many happy endings.  They just may not be what you expected.

Edit: I think people end up disappointed because they try to play the game to get a particular ending instead of playing the game and letting the story unfold around them.  I think for the first play through, what is best is to just not reload.  Ever.  Just see how things play out, for good or for bad.  I did reload once in that game, I made a critical change to my party at the gates after listening to one of the goodbyes, but other than that, everything I did stood.  And maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much.  Subsequent games i reloaded and played with dialogs, but for that first game, I just had a heck of a ride.

 So anyway, thank you Bioware writers.  You did a fabulous job on this!

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Points well taken Lion. I'm sure I'm not done venting at all. Perhaps my criticisms are premature in that what she did was betrayal, but we have nothing but speculation and very few facts to assume otherwise. That we might not see her again is something that could very well happen. We may only be "allowed" to observe the consequences of our coupling and be relegated to two sentences on prequel card. I think that would be incredibly dumb on Bioware's part, but then again, I'm not them.



I hope you are correct. I am an optimist despite my negative tone on this particular topic. I'm pulling for your view of things in the end, and am willing to give Bioware a chance to give us an appropriate end (not necessarily "happy" BTW); but, until proven otherwise, I will put nothing past the writers of a genre called Dark Fantasy where the license to kill runs rampant and is trumped only by the weird masochism exhibited by some of its following.



All I can tell you is that to suddenly be rendered a helpless twit (having crowned two kings, convinced Zathrian to end his life for the good of his clan, battled demons in the Fade, defeated dragons, with persuasion/intimidation 4, survival 4, 62 strength, 30 cunning with shield mastery and having cut a swath through a sea of darkspawn and bad guys) felt very wrong to me and way out of character for my PC.



That there might be more to this story and my PC might live to "live" it, is yet to be seen, but I, like you, am hopeful.

[TheLion36]

ReubenLiew wrote...
It is not self righteous, it is stating the facts of the game. And it is of my opinion that you don't need to be queen to be happy, just as it is hers that you NEED to be queen to be happy, and now WE'RE labelled as self righteous.
There is a bias here that is staring me in the face.

I'm not sure this was aimed at my reply stating that we should discuss this while respecting eachothers opions, I didn't mean to label anyone as self righteous, you're entitled to express your opinion and be treated with the same respect... My reply was more aimed at the people making single sentence replies reading something like "Go play Hello Kitty".

You make a valid point however, an ending whether happy or not should fall within or on the boundaries of the rules of the lore.

Modifié par TheLion36, 03 février 2010 - 06:08 .

[Sabriana]

Ejoslin, I so agree on the warning signs my human mage had all through the game, and just ignored. Not only from Alistair and the NPC's but from the game world itself.

Lol about Zevran.

Yes, after being publicly humiliated, my mage was also very cautious. Cautious enough that I got to see the second offering, simply because my mage girl was too spooked by the Alistair heartbreak to accept it if it "didn't mean anything".

What a surprise that was.  I remember sitting at my computer, staring at the monitor, and then going back to a wayyyy earlier save just to see that scene again (and again, and.....).

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Ejoslin, I so agree on the warning signs my human mage had all through the game, and just ignored. Not only from Alistair and the NPC's but from the game world itself.

Lol about Zevran.

Yes, after being publicly humiliated, my mage was also very cautious. Cautious enough that I got to see the second offering, simply because my mage girl was too spooked by the Alistair heartbreak to accept it if it "didn't mean anything".

What a surprise that was.  I remember sitting at my computer, staring at the monitor, and then going back to a wayyyy earlier save just to see that scene again (and again, and.....).

Oh yes.  I did that too.  I could NOT believe it.  That dialog, right there, made up for any and EVERY painful moment I had with Alistair.  It's still my very favorite part of the game.  It's why I have to do that romance.  I still am not tired of that scene.  

[David Gaider]

Sabriana wrote...
Alistair is a former templar, he could threaten the Chantry to shut up or be exposed. He could also just overrule the Chantry, and dismember their army somehow. The nobles would be another thing, but perhaps her hero-status would help. However, even that could all end in civil unrest, lickety split.

Indeed. Even if people didn't actually think the PC was controlling the King's mind (or the minds of his opponents), the idea that it could happen would be too much to swallow. And there's nothing about the Chantry to be exposed, incidentally. The fact that templars take lyrium isn't well-known, but it isn't hidden. The Chantry would be leading the nobility in their charge (and with the Chantry goeth the common folk).

[Sabriana]

David Gaider wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Alistair is a former templar, he could threaten the Chantry to shut up or be exposed. He could also just overrule the Chantry, and dismember their army somehow. The nobles would be another thing, but perhaps her hero-status would help. However, even that could all end in civil unrest, lickety split.

Indeed. Even if people didn't actually think the PC was controlling the King's mind (or the minds of his opponents), the idea that it could happen would be too much to swallow. And there's nothing about the Chantry to be exposed, incidentally. The fact that templars take lyrium isn't well-known, but it isn't hidden. The Chantry would be leading the nobility in their charge (and with the Chantry goeth the common folk).

Ok, thanks.
I got the impression that the Chantry had 'dirty little secrets' from one of the Alistair conversations. He states that the Chantry doesn't let templar's get away, to keep their secrets safe. It's paraphrased, but that's the gist of it.

But, that's only Alistair's take, of course. He has no reason to think kindly of the Chantry, after all.

True enough though, as it stands, the Chantry has the Andrastian countries in an iron grasp.

[Sialater]

Sabriana wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Alistair is a former templar, he could threaten the Chantry to shut up or be exposed. He could also just overrule the Chantry, and dismember their army somehow. The nobles would be another thing, but perhaps her hero-status would help. However, even that could all end in civil unrest, lickety split.

Indeed. Even if people didn't actually think the PC was controlling the King's mind (or the minds of his opponents), the idea that it could happen would be too much to swallow. And there's nothing about the Chantry to be exposed, incidentally. The fact that templars take lyrium isn't well-known, but it isn't hidden. The Chantry would be leading the nobility in their charge (and with the Chantry goeth the common folk).

Ok, thanks.
I got the impression that the Chantry had 'dirty little secrets' from one of the Alistair conversations. He states that the Chantry doesn't let templar's get away, to keep their secrets safe. It's paraphrased, but that's the gist of it.

But, that's only Alistair's take, of course. He has no reason to think kindly of the Chantry, after all.

True enough though, as it stands, the Chantry has the Andrastian countries in an iron grasp.

Well, there was that Templar in the Tower with the Desire Demon who'd essentially been fired for not being dedicated enough.  (The note's on his corpse.) So they do let them go in some cases.

[maxernst]

On my first playthrough now, romancing Alistair as human noble. I've read enough spoilers to have an idea what's going to happen. I'm hoping I can tolerate Anora on the throne because Alistair doesn't want to be king and hasn't been trained for it...so, in my mind an ending with him on the throne isn't really a happy ending for him. But I'll call it as I see it, when the time comes, and if I think it's best for Ferelden & the Grey Wardens, I might still do it.



I also know my character would never bring Loghain into the Grey Wardens...which is fine from the standpoint of keeping Alistair, but then my only happy ending requires the Dark Ritual. I'll wait and see what Morrigan actually says before making up my mind on that. It could be that my ending will be tragic.

[TheLion36]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
All I can tell you is that to suddenly be rendered a helpless twit (having crowned two kings, convinced Zathrian to end his life for the good of his clan, battled demons in the Fade, defeated dragons, with persuasion/intimidation 4, survival 4, 62 strength, 30 cunning with shield mastery and having cut a swath through a sea of darkspawn and bad guys) felt very wrong to me and way out of character for my PC.

hehe true we where rendered helpless but perhaps that has a philosophical meaning as well... We have the strength to do all these things, near godlike almost but we where brought on our knees by love.
I really do expect the Morrigan story to continue, I even think someone from Bioware hinted that her story was not over, what that means for our Morrigan love-life however remains to be seen... Considering her popularity however I don't think she'll be discarded that easily.

I'll at least stay faithful to her with most of my characters in future expansions until she returns, if she never does then my guys will be entering the priesthood or they'll end up being drunk in a gutter somewhere telling everyone who wants to hear about the one that got away...

Modifié par TheLion36, 03 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[Raiynsong]

First off, I wouldn't mind at all the addition of a sappy hollywood ending. I've completed two now and for what it's worth here's my logic



First one: Raven, Elven mage. totally in love with Alistair throughout the game. Ended up putting Anora on the throne and she and Alistair go off together. Logic: Anora, As Log's kid, but supported by me and Alistair, Anora would reunite all of the sides of the situation. She's annoying but politically astute and could serve as queen just fine. Alistair and I had more important work--rebuilding the GW's---because we KNOW that although the blight is over it's not over permanently.



Second one: HN also totally in love with Alistair. Ended up as King and Queen. Logic: Anora was a ****, and would end up just like her dad. Ferelden needed a new King and Alistair was the rightful heir. He did, however, need "help" to rule, because politics aren't his thing. That's where I come in. We reunite the country after the blight. This is critical and more important than just popping out an heir---we probably groom a likely candidate somewhere along the line. In fact, we'll have to because we'll both be dying young. In the meantime, Eamon can handle the politics but we are needed as symbolic "hearts" for the nation.



Both of these endings seem logical to me, both seem to be based just as much on "duty" as on love and yet both allow the love to continue. Shadowing this is the pact we made with Morrigan, and as we age that may weigh on us more and more.



Personally I was happier with the first ending than with the second. It surprised me that Alistair was kind of nasty about my coercing him to be his Queen when he was in love with me (he does later relent but still) and I would have liked a final kiss or something for that ending. In fact, my biggest gripe about Alistair is what others on the forums have referred to as the "old married couple" issue where once you are in love he just stops talking and flirting--you absolutely have to initiate everything. I need a virtual Viagra pill for him. (even so, he is a sweetie)



My third ending I'm going Zevran all the way but I can't help leading on both Leli and Alistair. The char is a City Elf tho, so Zev is her happy ending. She doesn't really trust humans anyway.



So many characters to plan, so little time.

[Barbarossa2010]

TheLion36 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
All I can tell you is that to suddenly be rendered a helpless twit (having crowned two kings, convinced Zathrian to end his life for the good of his clan, battled demons in the Fade, defeated dragons, with persuasion/intimidation 4, survival 4, 62 strength, 30 cunning with shield mastery and having cut a swath through a sea of darkspawn and bad guys) felt very wrong to me and way out of character for my PC.

I'll at least stay faithful to her with most of my characters in future expansions until she returns, if she never does then my guys will be entering the priesthood ...

Good one.  Looks like we'll be forming a new religious order for the Chantry: 

Our Lady's Legion of Drunken Warrior Monks (Tainted Order)