197 réponses à ce sujet

[RodolpheBirmingham]

Busomjack wrote...


For instance, I think all smokers should be denied medicare.

You are right, smokers should be denied of medical care and also drivers, communists, parent (they cause overpopulation), people eating Fried food like french fries, fried chicken (cause cancer), et cetera.

[Busomjack]

Lukertin wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
For instance, I think all smokers should be denied medicare.

By the same logic, fat people and people who don't exercise should also be denied medicare.

You're right, they should be denied medicare.  Anyone who has a preventable health issue(preventable meaning they brought it on themselves through their own irresponsibility) should not be given any kind of government health program.

If they can pay for their own sickness, more power to them.  Society shouldn't lift a finger for them though.

[thegreateski]

LEAVE TIM ALONE!

[Ascaladar]

kiyyto wrote...

Really?

Why the hell would an incredibly wealthy, incredibly powerful, incredibly purposed man smoke?
Smoking is so obviously a vice of a poor or troubled person.
The illusive man is neither.

It is pretty dumb that they made him smoke.
It is also dumb that they passed off smoking onto other species, as if they would roll tobacco like humans.
What is more likely is that they have their own, strange vices, and humanity probably out-lawed tobacco anyway.
Pretty dumb overall.

I am not a smoker myself, but people as self righteous as you make me sick. Honestly the health risk of smoke are well known and have been so for years. Anyone claiming to have had no knowledge about this is stupid.

But other then that it is his/her responsability. If they want to smoke I have no problems with that as long as they avoid blowing the smoke directly into my face.  Maybe the Illusive Man just likes the taste and the contact with him is only holographic so why should we even care?

Now to you little fascist troll, I will tell you one of lifes little secrets: You can try to live as healthy as possible, but you will still meet the reaper, just like the rest of us sinners. Sugar, fat, especially in larger amounts can be bad to your health and try not even to read about cancer risks of some food additions or you might get nightmares of it.

[Busomjack]

"Now to you little fascist troll, I will tell you one of lifes little
secrets: You can try to live as healthy as possible, but you will still
meet the reaper, just like the rest of us sinners. Sugar, fat,
especially in larger amounts can be bad to your health and try not even
to read about cancer risks of some food additions or you might get
nightmares of it."

I don't see what point you're trying to make here.  Yes people are mortal and thus we will all die eventually, but does that mean we should not make any effort to live as healthful and fullfilling a life as possible?  The fact that we do die eventually is more a reason to live healthfully than to neglect our health.
I have never heard a health advocate suggest that a healthy lifestyle will lead to immortality.  It can lead to a longer life though and that appeals to many people.

Excess sugar, trans fat, and food additives can be bad for our health too.  What is your point?  Nobody was disputing this?  Why bring it up?

Modifié par Busomjack, 23 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[Borschtbeet]

Busomjack wrote...



"Now to you little fascist troll, I will tell you one of lifes little
secrets: You can try to live as healthy as possible, but you will still
meet the reaper, just like the rest of us sinners. Sugar, fat,
especially in larger amounts can be bad to your health and try not even
to read about cancer risks of some food additions or you might get
nightmares of it."

I don't see what point you're trying to make here.  Yes people are mortal and thus we will all die eventually, but does that mean we should not make any effort to live as healthful and fullfilling a life as possible?  The fact that we do die eventually is more a reason to live healthfully than to neglect our health.
I have never heard a health advocate suggest that a healthy lifestyle will lead to immortality.  It can lead to a longer life though and that appeals to many people.

Excess sugar, trans fat, and food additives can be bad for our health too.  What is your point?  Nobody was disputing this?  Why bring it up?

Dude, just get off your soap box.  I used to be like you, and would virulently speak out against smoking but that ceased after I realized just the kind of people I am dealing with.
People who smoke don't care about their health, they don't care about being a burden on society, and polluting the environment.  By opposing smoking, you are advocating the continued preservation of such people.  Is this really a cause worth fighting for?  We should embrace smoking as the idiot pesticide that it is and be greatful for it's existence because of the people it helps removes from society.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 23 février 2010 - 06:07 .

[Skemte]

... If anything smoking brought realism.. There wasn't THAT many people who smoked I can only think of like 4 to 6 people off hand.. Illusive Man, Merchant Elcore, Batarian mechanic, and maybe 2 to 3 other people.. I don't know where your getting it.

[Lukertin]

Busomjack wrote...

Lukertin wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
For instance, I think all smokers should be denied medicare.

By the same logic, fat people and people who don't exercise should also be denied medicare.

You're right, they should be denied medicare.  Anyone who has a preventable health issue(preventable meaning they brought it on themselves through their own irresponsibility) should not be given any kind of government health program.

If they can pay for their own sickness, more power to them.  Society shouldn't lift a finger for them though.

Your argument is fatally flawed because:
1) Almost every single medical condition or illness, whether cancer or breaking a leg due to a skiing accident, is preventable on the part of the victim.  Got cancer?  Shouldn't have drunk alcohol, or ate TV dinners, or drank coffee from a plastic cup, or gone outside without putting on sunscreen, or taken medicine the results of which are not fully documented.  Got leg broke?  Shouldn't have participated in dangerous activity.
2) Society in fact already pays for everyone else's medical bills, regardless of the existence of a public health system.  You buy medical insurance.  The very structure of insurance requires that you're paying the hospital bills of people who get sick more often than you do.  When companies market and sell goods that are damaging to the public, they get sued, and they have to increase the prices of their goods to finance the costs of foreseeable litigation.  By purchasing their products (which you do purchase whether you realize it or not, the same company marketing some new medicine that accidentally increases risk of cancer probably makes your generic ibuprofen), you also pay for the medical bills of people who bring maladies upon themselves.

[Misterza]

kiyyto wrote...

Zugnokorr wrote...

sigh...

Who cares if there is smoking in a game? Especially with someone like The Illusive Man, I cant imagine him not smoking.

Really?

Why the hell would an incredibly wealthy, incredibly powerful, incredibly purposed man smoke?
Smoking is so obviously a vice of a poor or troubled person.
The illusive man is neither.

It is pretty dumb that they made him smoke.
It is also dumb that they passed off smoking onto other species, as if they would roll tobacco like humans.
What is more likely is that they have their own, strange vices, and humanity probably out-lawed tobacco anyway.
Pretty dumb overall.

How is smoking a vice of a poor/troubled person? That sounds like something out of the 19th century. Is drinking the vice of the mentally unsound? I think it fits TIM 100%. I found it to be quite similiar to The Smoking Man in X-Files.

[Lukertin]

LOL Barack Obama is a smoker. President Barack Obama is the paradigm example of a poor, or troubled person, who is a burden on society by virtue of the fact that he contributes to pollution, and is an example of the type of person the great nicotine pesticide is meant to eradicate from this world.

Modifié par Lukertin, 23 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[Borschtbeet]

I think The Illusive Man's image was inspired by the real life man who used the pseudonym Deep Throat.

Before we knew his identity he was portrayed as a shady man smoking a cigarette.



I think the original poster should've clarified by saying that smoking is a vice with a greater effect on the poor rather than being exclusive to the poor since smoking is obviously going to be more detrimental to people who have to spend a good portion of their income on their drug addiction.

Serves them right though, I have zero sympathy.

[Borschtbeet]

Lukertin wrote...

LOL Barack Obama is a smoker. President Barack Obama is the paradigm example of a poor, or troubled person, who is a burden on society by virtue of the fact that he contributes to pollution, and is an example of the type of person the great nicotine pesticide is meant to eradicate from this world.

I was actually thinking he was more a burden to this country in that he is a weak and ineffective leader and before you ask no I'm not a republican and no I did vote for McCain.
Being that he is a smoker doesn't do him any good either most certainly.

[Lukertin]

Borschtbeet wrote...
I was actually thinking he was more a burden to this country in that he is a weak and ineffective leader and before you ask no I'm not a republican and no I did vote for McCain.
Being that he is a smoker doesn't do him any good either most certainly.

Don't mix arguments.  The question is whether Barack Obama a burden on society by virtue of the fact that he smokes a pack of cigarettes per day, not the effectiveness of his presidency.

[Borschtbeet]

Lukertin wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...
I was actually thinking he was more a burden to this country in that he is a weak and ineffective leader and before you ask no I'm not a republican and no I did vote for McCain.
Being that he is a smoker doesn't do him any good either most certainly.

Don't mix arguments.  The question is whether Barack Obama a burden on society by virtue of the fact that he smokes a pack of cigarettes per day, not the effectiveness of his presidency.

I think I answered your question already.  Yes he is a burden on society.  It's not just because he's a smoker though but also because he's a weak leader.

I think you may have misinterpreted my viewpoints though.  I don't think smoking is bad thing, it's smokers who are bad people and it's tobacco which snuffs these people out and thus I think smoking has a positive role in society.

[Lukertin]

So Barack Obama is a bad person by virtue of the fact that he smokes?

The entire Native North American population were bad people?

Modifié par Lukertin, 23 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[Borschtbeet]

Lukertin wrote...

So Barack Obama is a bad person by virtue of the fact that he smokes?

The entire Native North American population were bad people?

Are you telling me that all native Americans smoke?  If you're talking about before European settlers arrived I can't really hold the same malice against them because they obviously didn't have the same access to knowledge about smoking that contemporary society does.

Yes I think smoking makes someone a bad person.  Someone who puts selfish indulgence above their own health and the health of others doesn't deserve to have a place in human society and they likely have other personality traits which are equally despicable.

[sirandar]

This kind of talk is a very slippery slope that ends up with lots of mayhem and murder.

Much of human misery is caused human behavior, usually greed, lies and ignorance. The tobacco companies are perhaps drug dealers and the people who smoke foolish ..... that's life.

I know that the large tobacco company in my town closed down to move to China where there is a fresh tobacco uneducated market waiting for them BUT they did pay very well and employ a lot of people. I would say good riddance.

Lets looks at all the other risk factors

1) Trans fats in cheap margarine and processed food: Probably killed as many people as smoking, maybe more.
2) Coffee: May relate to blood pressure and may exaggerate compulsive behavior
3) Drugs: All sorts of health risk depending on the drug
4) Prescription drugs: All sorts of health risk depending on the drug
5) The Internet: Gambling and porn. The way Internet is provided is like telling an alcoholic that in order for the City Hydro Company to provide water, they must also provide vodka at the same time.
6) Fast food: Some OK most bad
7) Individual or racial genetic markers associated with "disease"
8) Not eating certain food groups: Another risk
9) Drinking alcohol, or not drinking alcohol
10) Having a child with someone not distant enough of a relation to you
11) Any form of sex
12) Television
13) Inconsistent exercise
14) Where you live
15) The company you keep

Freedom is an interesting experiment where most pretend they are free but really adopt a fairly rigid code of behavior that may or may not be healthy. It is an ugly experiment in choice and consequence that is far from simple. Deliberate and unintended misinformation abounds. Real information is carefully controlled.

Modifié par sirandar, 23 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[Borschtbeet]

You got to love how people are getting rich off of selling products that are wiping out the vermin of the human race.

Money well earned I say. 

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 23 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[Psython]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Lukertin wrote...

So Barack Obama is a bad person by virtue of the fact that he smokes?

The entire Native North American population were bad people?

Are you telling me that all native Americans smoke?  If you're talking about before European settlers arrived I can't really hold the same malice against them because they obviously didn't have the same access to knowledge about smoking that contemporary society does.

Yes I think smoking makes someone a bad person.  Someone who puts selfish indulgence above their own health and the health of others doesn't deserve to have a place in human society and they likely have other personality traits which are equally despicable.

Does anyone else notice the irony here? Everyone should get the same healthcare standards regardless of their own personal decisions. Where do you draw the line between a personal choice that caused a sickness and a victim of circumstance? Are you willing to judge humanity as unfit? Are you willing to look someone in the eyes and deny them healthcare because there selfish choices make them undeserving of there place in human society? You really think everyone who smokes cigarettes has personality traits which are undesirable and despicable? Cigarettes? You must be joking right? 

The way you sound is akin to the perenial manbaby, the one who has some serious issues relating to people. The fact is that you come off as an evil man. One selfish enough to put themselves above others. One without sympathy or remorse. At the very least, one with no friends who smoke which I think says enough about your personality in real life. Your comments are some of the most facist and downright cruel things I have read on these forums. I hate paying taxes, but I care enough to give up a little money to help others in need, regardless of which path brought them to where they are. You would look at a person and find nothing worth saving in their soul? The millions of people who smoke have nothing worth saving? I suppose its not your place to help them because they brought it on themselves. Please rejoin the human race before its too late.

Modifié par Psython, 23 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[piemanz]

I would rather die 20 years early enjoying my life than hang on for another 20 being miserable.The only thing that is certain in life is that at some point you will die,and when your dead your not going to care,trust me.

[Borschtbeet]

Psython wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

Lukertin wrote...

So Barack Obama is a bad person by virtue of the fact that he smokes?

The entire Native North American population were bad people?

Are you telling me that all native Americans smoke?  If you're talking about before European settlers arrived I can't really hold the same malice against them because they obviously didn't have the same access to knowledge about smoking that contemporary society does.

Yes I think smoking makes someone a bad person.  Someone who puts selfish indulgence above their own health and the health of others doesn't deserve to have a place in human society and they likely have other personality traits which are equally despicable.

Does anyone else notice the irony here? Everyone should get the same healthcare standards regardless of their own personal decisions. Where do you draw the line between a personal choice that caused a sickness and a victim of circumstance? Are you willing to judge humanity as unfit. Are you willing to look someone in the eyes and deny them healthcare because there selfish choices make them undeserving of there place in human society? You really think everyone who smokes cigarettes has personality traits which are undesirable and despicable? Cigarettes? You must be joking right? 

The way you sound is akin to the perenial manbaby, the one who has some serious issues relating to people. The fact is that you come off as an evil man. One selfish enough to put themselves above others. One without sympathy or remorse. At the very least, one with no friends who smoke which I think says enough about your personality in real life. Your comments are some of the most facist and downright cruel things I have read on these forums. I hate paying taxes, but I care enough to give up a little money to help others in need, regardless of which path brought them to where they are. You would look at a person and find nothing worth saving in their soul? The millions of people who smoke have nothing worth saving? I suppose its not your place to help them because they brought it on yourself. Please rejoin the human race before its too late.

Actually I don't dissagree at all that people should have the same healthcare standards.  I don't think anyone should be denied treatment but I don't think providing health care is a responsibility of the government either.

Problem I have with government health care is that I think it would encourage more irresponsible behaviour because they're basically telling society that it doesn't matter what kind of lifestyle you follow, our government funded doctors will bail you out.  I don't think it should work that way.
You're right I don't have any friends who smoke as I don't like to associate myself with vermin. 
People who smoke made their decision already.  I understand people make mistakes but if they're not willing to rectify that mistake by turning their life around then they are weak and don't deserve a second chance.
I don't mind paying taxes for public services and social programs but I think the emphasis should be on programs which help people for pursuing responsible behaviour, such as more scholarship programs for students who can't afford college but get good grades.
It shouldn't be to prolong the life of scum who can't even be bothered to take action to salvage their own health.

[piemanz]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Psython wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

Lukertin wrote...

So Barack Obama is a bad person by virtue of the fact that he smokes?

The entire Native North American population were bad people?

Are you telling me that all native Americans smoke?  If you're talking about before European settlers arrived I can't really hold the same malice against them because they obviously didn't have the same access to knowledge about smoking that contemporary society does.

Yes I think smoking makes someone a bad person.  Someone who puts selfish indulgence above their own health and the health of others doesn't deserve to have a place in human society and they likely have other personality traits which are equally despicable.

Does anyone else notice the irony here? Everyone should get the same healthcare standards regardless of their own personal decisions. Where do you draw the line between a personal choice that caused a sickness and a victim of circumstance? Are you willing to judge humanity as unfit. Are you willing to look someone in the eyes and deny them healthcare because there selfish choices make them undeserving of there place in human society? You really think everyone who smokes cigarettes has personality traits which are undesirable and despicable? Cigarettes? You must be joking right? 

The way you sound is akin to the perenial manbaby, the one who has some serious issues relating to people. The fact is that you come off as an evil man. One selfish enough to put themselves above others. One without sympathy or remorse. At the very least, one with no friends who smoke which I think says enough about your personality in real life. Your comments are some of the most facist and downright cruel things I have read on these forums. I hate paying taxes, but I care enough to give up a little money to help others in need, regardless of which path brought them to where they are. You would look at a person and find nothing worth saving in their soul? The millions of people who smoke have nothing worth saving? I suppose its not your place to help them because they brought it on yourself. Please rejoin the human race before its too late.

Actually I don't dissagree at all that people should have the same healthcare standards.  I don't think anyone should be denied treatment but I don't think providing health care is a responsibility of the government either.

Problem I have with government health care is that I think it would encourage more irresponsible behaviour because they're basically telling society that it doesn't matter what kind of lifestyle you follow, our government funded doctors will bail you out.  I don't think it should work that way.
You're right I don't have any friends who smoke as I don't like to associate myself with vermin. 
People who smoke made their decision already.  I understand people make mistakes but if they're not willing to rectify that mistake by turning their life around then they are weak and don't deserve a second chance.
I don't mind paying taxes for public services and social programs but I think the emphasis should be on programs which help people for pursuing responsible behaviour, such as more scholarship programs for students who can't afford college but get good grades.
It shouldn't be to prolong the life of scum who can't even be bothered to take action to salvage their own health.

Yea,the current sytem is awesome,america is world renowed for it's healthy lifestyle.

*sarcasm*

Modifié par piemanz, 23 février 2010 - 07:34 .

[Spesiel van LoE]

Come on! Can't we just let each other breath a little?

We ****ing need to respect each other instead of peeing against the wind,



So, they are smockers in the game. Big deal! I was much more disappointed by the fact there is no depiction of multi-racial relationship, and/or same sex relationships.

[sirandar]

piemanz wrote...

I would rather die 20 years early enjoying my life than hang on for another 20 being miserable.The only thing that is certain in life is that at some point you will die,and when your dead your not going to care,trust me.

Ahhhh  .... the sadest augument of the truly foolish.   They pretend that a behaviour like smoking magically takes a few years off your life but doesn't effect you at all until them.  While this may be partly true for the minority, it is not what really happens.

It is quite possible to be very healthy and vital well past your fifties. Significant smoking effects start at 30 and hampers your health during the time when you could be at or near your peak.   The greater question is why bother being at or near your peak after 30 and why so many people don't really care.

[Borschtbeet]

Spesiel van LoE wrote...

Come on! Can't we just let each other breath a little?
We ****ing need to respect each other instead of peeing against the wind,

So, they are smockers in the game. Big deal! I was much more disappointed by the fact there is no depiction of multi-racial relationship, and/or same sex relationships.

You do know Jacob is a scroggable character, don't you?