191 réponses à ce sujet

[Chained_Creator]

adam_grif wrote...
Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Assuming they haven't actually created perpetual energy devices. Which is beyond ridiculous, more like impossible, to humans. Though, FTL period is impossible for humans, so I'm not sure what limit Reapers really have.

Suppose the scientist from the Cerberus tech team was correct, "A god does not conciously warp reality, it merely does by being there."

adam_grif wrote...
Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

No, I was saying the Reaper itself was 37 million years old. The age is the important number, and that it still functioned after that many years. Time constraints are irrelevant to a being that old.

[Shannara13]

adam_grif wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

That's six years of movement and built-up drive charge with no way to refuel or dissipate charge. Which is a bit silly if you think about it. Maybe if they explain that there were like refueling stations between dark space and our galaxy or something?

Why do you think that they couldn't simply have that much energy stored away? Billions of years of technology advancement can do alot.

Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Yes, I know it's a "fallacy" to assume that, but I would contest that the Reapers really do know more than we know.

Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

You are assuming that we really understand how physics works. E=mc^2 could very well be wrong.

[Sprgmr]

I really doubt they have been traveling to our galaxy, they are waiting for the citadel relay. They are so far outside the Milky Way that it is in their field of view, they can see it, IN IT'S ENTIRETY. the thing is about 100,000 light years across, and they can see it as we see out car from 30 feet away. Scale that relationship up and you realize just how far away they are. traveling in any way other than a relay is just foolish and entirely improbable.

[Shannara13]

Sprgmr wrote...

I really doubt they have been traveling to our galaxy, they are waiting for the citadel relay. They are so far outside the Milky Way that it is in their field of view, they can see it, IN IT'S ENTIRETY. the thing is about 100,000 light years across, and they can see it as we see out car from 30 feet away. Scale that relationship up and you realize just how far away they are. traveling in any way other than a relay is just foolish and entirely improbable.

They made the Relay technology, who is to say they can't just make blind relay like jumps forward. Its not like they need to worry about hitting something.

[greatgeek]

I think that one can reasonably assume that the Reapers have some other way to travel between the galaxy and dark space. IIRC mass relays can only function in pairs, and therefore the Reapers must have some sort of advanced FTL drive system or worm hole creating technology that would have allowed them to place the mass relay that connects to the Citadel.

[truedark]

Sprgmr wrote...

I really doubt they have been traveling to our galaxy, they are waiting for the citadel relay. They are so far outside the Milky Way that it is in their field of view, they can see it, IN IT'S ENTIRETY. the thing is about 100,000 light years across, and they can see it as we see out car from 30 feet away. Scale that relationship up and you realize just how far away they are. traveling in any way other than a relay is just foolish and entirely improbable.

Milky Way is only around 100,000 across.

[zfactor]

Shannara13 wrote...

Sprgmr wrote...

I really doubt they have been traveling to our galaxy, they are waiting for the citadel relay. They are so far outside the Milky Way that it is in their field of view, they can see it, IN IT'S ENTIRETY. the thing is about 100,000 light years across, and they can see it as we see out car from 30 feet away. Scale that relationship up and you realize just how far away they are. traveling in any way other than a relay is just foolish and entirely improbable.

They made the Relay technology, who is to say they can't just make blind relay like jumps forward. Its not like they need to worry about hitting something.

Or they could lock on to relays and FTL travel from anywhere to a relay. 

[adam_grif]

Shannara13 wrote...


You are assuming that we really understand how physics works. E=mc^2 could very well be wrong.

Good point. How about you sit in the middle of a nuclear test site when they're testing them nuclear bombs? You should be pretty confident about it, since after all, E=mc^2 is "just a theory"! I'm sure you'll come out of it just fine.



I'd strongly recommend reading this before continuing:

http://www.projectrh.../rocket3al.html

You can't just say "well its plausible because maybe we're wrong."

Assuming they haven't actually created perpetual energy devices. Which
is beyond ridiculous, more like impossible, to humans. Though, FTL
period is impossible for humans, so I'm not sure what limit Reapers
really have.

Reapers are limited by the author's needs. They are as impressive or weak as the writer needs them to be.

If this setting has perpetual motion machines then it's just compounding on the stupidity.

No, I was saying the Reaper itself was 37 million years old. The age is
the important number, and that it still functioned after that many
years. Time constraints are irrelevant to a being that old.

They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

[rhyme198]

I don't know if someone has brought this up, but what if that whole "star death" thing from the Tali mission was another way that the Reapers were attempting to come back? I mean, everything in this series seems to come back to them (Geth and Saren in ME1, Collectors in ME2). What do you want to bet that they had more than one plan just like any "evil genius" to reclaim the galaxy and continue their cycle.

[Chained_Creator]

I don't think anyone here is really wrapping their head around the non-difficulty of "time-constraint" for Reapers.



It is a non-factor. Time means nothing to them. Some are evidently millions of years old. Travel between GALAXIES would be possible for a being that lives that long.

[zfactor]

Chained_Creator wrote...

I don't think anyone here is really wrapping their head around the non-difficulty of "time-constraint" for Reapers.

It is a non-factor. Time means nothing to them. Some are evidently millions of years old. Travel between GALAXIES would be possible for a being that lives that long.

But it would be kinda hard to pick up the series after waiting millions of years for them to show up in the Milky Way... 

[marshalleck]

Sprgmr wrote...

I really doubt they have been traveling to our galaxy, they are waiting for the citadel relay. They are so far outside the Milky Way that it is in their field of view, they can see it, IN IT'S ENTIRETY. the thing is about 100,000 light years across, and they can see it as we see out car from 30 feet away. Scale that relationship up and you realize just how far away they are. traveling in any way other than a relay is just foolish and entirely improbable.

It's not so much that it's improbable. To a machine that can "live" forever as long as it has access to materials to repair its body, transit time is meaningless. The reapers had to construct the relays and place them throughout the galaxy at some point in time...the only way to do that would be to physically travel to those locations. Just like humans building a road or laying railroad tracks. At some point, someone had to actually go out to the middle of nowhere and lay some foundation.

No, the problem is this. The Reapers want humans now, not  100,000 years from now (if they travel at the speed of light).

For that, they need a relay. And I'm sure they've got a contingency plan.

[MrGOH]

adam_grif wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

That's six years of movement and built-up drive charge with no way to refuel or dissipate charge. Which is a bit silly if you think about it. Maybe if they explain that there were like refueling stations between dark space and our galaxy or something?

Why do you think that they couldn't simply have that much energy stored away? Billions of years of technology advancement can do alot.

Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Yes, I know it's a "fallacy" to assume that, but I would contest that the Reapers really do know more than we know.

Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

Wait, you speak of FTL as if it were possible
under the current laws of physics, which it clearly isn't. Heck, the
classic line is that FTL implies (or actually is) time travel due to
special relativity. So who cares about whether FTL drives need to be on constantly or if the Reapers just need to accelerate to some multiple of c and let inertia bring them to the galaxy. I mean, common FTL and mass relay use should be breaking causality and allowing people to travel backwards in time.

[neubourn]

The Reapers dont NEED the relay to enter the galaxy, they do it because it is the most efficient method. They built the citadel which becomes the "hub" of the galaxy each time new species rise to that level of space travel, and the Reapers use the Citadel to sneak attack and cut off the head of the chicken so to speak by taking out the leaders in the citadel. They then spend hundreds of years eradicating organic life and wiping out their traces.



In ME1, this plan got thwarted, so they can no longer sneak attack, instead they have to hit the galaxy head on and do it the old fashioned way

[Chained_Creator]

adam_grif wrote...
You can't just say "well its plausible because maybe we're wrong."

In the Mass Effect universe, we are not "possibly wrong". We are wrong. Our understanding of Physics is broken in the Mass Effect universe by Reaper technology. Irreversibly shattered beyond comprehension. FTL travel is not only capable, travel at speeds THOUSANDS of times the speed of light is achievable.

adam_grif wrote...
They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

You know that, right?

[Weskerr]

D3thray wrote...

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

You have no concept of galactic distances do you?  If they were even traveling 100 times the speed of light they're still about 1000 years from reaching the EDGE of the galaxy.  The only remotely practical way for them to get around even in the Mass Effect universe is via mass relay.

That, and also in no way, shape, or form, was it shown that the Reapers were in front of anything. It just showed them all moving in the same direction, surrounded by darkness. It's more a symbol of "they're still coming" despite the fact that Shepard foiled their plans again.

[zfactor]

MrGOH wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

That's six years of movement and built-up drive charge with no way to refuel or dissipate charge. Which is a bit silly if you think about it. Maybe if they explain that there were like refueling stations between dark space and our galaxy or something?

Why do you think that they couldn't simply have that much energy stored away? Billions of years of technology advancement can do alot.

Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Yes, I know it's a "fallacy" to assume that, but I would contest that the Reapers really do know more than we know.

Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

Wait, you speak of FTL as if it were possible
under the current laws of physics, which it clearly isn't. Heck, the
classic line is that FTL implies (or actually is) time travel due to
special relativity. So who cares about whether FTL drives need to be on constantly or if the Reapers just need to accelerate to some multiple of c and let inertia bring them to the galaxy. I mean, common FTL and mass relay use should be breaking causality and allowing people to travel backwards in time.

FTL speed doesn't accelerate the object to greater than the speed of light, it accelerates THE SPACE THE OBJECT IS IN to FTL, causing the object to go FTL from an outsider's perspective.  This is why the crew isn't flung forward or backwards in a relay jump, they are still, space is moving. 

[JimiShep]

Chained_Creator wrote...

I don't think anyone here is really wrapping their head around the non-difficulty of "time-constraint" for Reapers.

It is a non-factor. Time means nothing to them. Some are evidently millions of years old. Travel between GALAXIES would be possible for a being that lives that long.

Sounds right to me

[KalReegar]

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Assuming they haven't actually created perpetual energy devices. Which is beyond ridiculous, more like impossible, to humans. Though, FTL period is impossible for humans, so I'm not sure what limit Reapers really have.

Suppose the scientist from the Cerberus tech team was correct, "A god does not conciously warp reality, it merely does by being there."

adam_grif wrote...
Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

No, I was saying the Reaper itself was 37 million years old. The age is the important number, and that it still functioned after that many years. Time constraints are irrelevant to a being that old.

Apparently they did create perpetual energy, as the Mass Relays are powered by an eezo core that never seems to deplete itself.

[adam_grif]

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

You know that, right?

Obviously, which is why I said I gave up on it last page. For that very reason. A Wizard doing it is the only explanation at this point.

[zfactor]

JimiShep wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

I don't think anyone here is really wrapping their head around the non-difficulty of "time-constraint" for Reapers.

It is a non-factor. Time means nothing to them. Some are evidently millions of years old. Travel between GALAXIES would be possible for a being that lives that long.

Sounds right to me

But it would take long enough that the species they want to destroy would advance to their level...

[Bigeyez]

Chained_Creator wrote...

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

Hell Dark Energy IS the ME universes version or "A wizard did it". With every race already breaking the laws of physics on an everyday basis I wouldn't doubt anything the Reapers can do.

[zfactor]

KalReegar wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Tech advancement is irrelevant because it doesn't stop you being constrained by physics. The limit on energy density is anti-matter, which holds bucketloads of energy. But Six+ years of continuous FTL travel? No way. 37 million years of mass effect fields counteracting gravity? You're joking.

Assuming they haven't actually created perpetual energy devices. Which is beyond ridiculous, more like impossible, to humans. Though, FTL period is impossible for humans, so I'm not sure what limit Reapers really have.

Suppose the scientist from the Cerberus tech team was correct, "A god does not conciously warp reality, it merely does by being there."

adam_grif wrote...
Yes, obviously they know more than we know. But storing 37 million years of fuel on your starship is beyond implausible, beyond ridiculous.

Are we certain that they were there for 37 million years? Since itw as a collector trap and we only found it recently is it possible they dragged the reaper there recently?

No, I was saying the Reaper itself was 37 million years old. The age is the important number, and that it still functioned after that many years. Time constraints are irrelevant to a being that old.

Apparently they did create perpetual energy, as the Mass Relays are powered by an eezo core that never seems to deplete itself.

 
It is probably powered by the same means as a reaper ship (still unknown, possible perpetual...)

Modifié par zfactor, 02 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[321scooter]

The shot of the reapers looking at the milky way is a testament to just how far away they really are.  They can see the ENTIRE galaxy from their vantage point.  That alone would mean they are too far away for conventional travel and need to unlock the mass relay on the citadel.  They don't have the juice to just fly there on their own.

[marshalleck]

Weskerr wrote...

D3thray wrote...

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

You have no concept of galactic distances do you?  If they were even traveling 100 times the speed of light they're still about 1000 years from reaching the EDGE of the galaxy.  The only remotely practical way for them to get around even in the Mass Effect universe is via mass relay.

That, and also in no way, shape, or form, was it shown that the Reapers were in front of anything. It just showed them all moving in the same direction, surrounded by darkness. It's more a symbol of "they're still coming" despite the fact that Shepard foiled their plans again.

Actually it did show them juxtaposed against the backdrop of the milky way galaxy.