191 réponses à ce sujet

[SunfighterG8]

Terminator 253 wrote...

They needed someone to activate The Conduit or Citadel, however, now that Shepard has passed through the Omega 4 relay and survived, this may be their way through.

*shrug* i guess that could be a really weird plot twist...that the omega 4 gate was a back-up plan relay should the main one at the citadel fail to work, and you activated it when you went though with your reaper IFF. Thatd be a huge stretch though...

but I do find it strange that the energy coming from that gate is red, the reapers energy tends to be red if you remember the old citadel battle nazara had weird red electrical currents. Maybe just for gameplay to easily notice the gate, but the red energy to me seems to point to the gate having another function other then just a standard gate...

I dunno...im curious why nobody as really brought it up yet as to why that gate happens to be red, yet functioned just like any other gate..unless it had another purpose too.

[marshalleck]

Keltoris wrote...

To be honest, I'm curious as to 1) who woke them up and how? and 2) Why can't they override the Citadel relay from their end.

Sovereign, presumably. How? Quantum entanglement!

As for remote activation...good question.

[Weskerr]

marshalleck wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

You're right. I never noticed the galaxy in front of them. Still though, we're speculating about universal distances. And galaxies are enormous. Just because they can see the galaxy doesn't mean they can get there. I still think it's more a symbol than the Reapers just deciding to fly there without the help of any mass relays.

It's not that simple.

They either need the relay to get here instantly, or they don't. If they don't need the relays, why did the plot of ME1 exist?

They must have a contingency plan for the Citadel.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if ME3 opens with them somehow activating it and destroying the Council, and that's all the warning the organic races get.

They definitely do have a contingency plan. Remember during the cinematic ending when Harbringer says, "You have failed. We will find another way. Releasing control."

I hope the ME writers can be more creative than having that contingency plan be the same one they had in ME1

Modifié par Weskerr, 02 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

OP, to be blunt and straight to the point...............Saren was there to open the Mass Relay into Dark Space! Fullstop!!!

Not that insignificant mini-relay into the Citadel.

The Citadel IS the Mass Relay into Dark Space.

next time listen to the AI on Ilos.

[adam_grif]

Shannara13 wrote...

Guess what. The day you can explain to me how a Mass Effect Relay works you can argue how possible it is for reapers to travel to the galaxy without one.


P.S. It is actually possible to divide by 0.

1. Irrelevant. We're arguing using in-universe logic and science. In-universe, the science says that drive core charges build up and **** starts happening if it does. In universe, ships need fuel to get places.

2. No it's not. Please don't teach a math class.

If you attempt to divide by zero you don't get a defined answer, because the question doesn't make sense. If I have 8 pieces of pie, and I divide it evenly amongst 0 people, how many pieces of pie does each of the 0 people get? Do each of the 0 people get infinite slices of pie? That can't be right, there are only 8 slices of pie! Do each of them get 8? But that can't be right, there's nobody to give it to! Does each person get 0 pieces of pie? But then you're not even dividing the pie up...

The answer is undefined.

[State_Of_Danile]

Refardless of whether or not they actually get there or how they do it, isn't there somewhere in me or me2 where they are referred to as 'dormant'...how'd they wake up?

[truedark]

adam_grif wrote...

truedark wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

You know that, right?

Obviously, which is why I said I gave up on it last page. For that very reason. A Wizard doing it is the only explanation at this point.

You're forgetting Newton's first law. All the reapers have to do is accelerate to a speed and then they're golden. They can go back into hibernation and still make it.

I already said that exact thing pages back.

The problem is that they AREN'T doing that, because they have only started moving a few years back and ME3 isn't going to take place 15,000 years in the future. It's the commander Shepard story - and It will be a few years at most after ME2.

This implies they're getting here via FTL.

FTL is not subject to inerta here. They need to maintain drive core charge otherwise they drop down to non-FTL speeds.

Heres a good question. Why didn't the black hole that you see after the Mu Relay pull the Normandy in?

If you divide anything by 0 the answer is infinite because you can put 0 infinitely into whatever number it is.

Modifié par truedark, 02 février 2010 - 03:04 .

[Shannara13]

adam_grif wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

Guess what. The day you can explain to me how a Mass Effect Relay works you can argue how possible it is for reapers to travel to the galaxy without one.


P.S. It is actually possible to divide by 0.

1. Irrelevant. We're arguing using in-universe logic and science. In-universe, the science says that drive core charges build up and **** starts happening if it does. In universe, ships need fuel to get places.

2. No it's not. Please don't teach a math class.

If you attempt to divide by zero you don't get a defined answer, because the question doesn't make sense. If I have 8 pieces of pie, and I divide it evenly amongst 0 people, how many pieces of pie does each of the 0 people get? Do each of the 0 people get infinite slices of pie? That can't be right, there are only 8 slices of pie! Do each of them get 8? But that can't be right, there's nobody to give it to! Does each person get 0 pieces of pie? But then you're not even dividing the pie up...

The answer is undefined.

1. Except with Mass Effect Relays. Which the Reapers designed and made...

2. Try studying some higher math than just basic algebra.

[SunfighterG8]

ohupthis wrote...

OP, to be blunt and straight to the point...............Saren was there to open the Mass Relay into Dark Space! Fullstop!!!
Not that insignificant mini-relay into the Citadel.
The Citadel IS the Mass Relay into Dark Space.
next time listen to the AI on Ilos.

BTW, that AI never said for certain that the reapers go out into dark space to hibernate...they just said it was one theory.....but it seems to be taken as cannon..

[Metcalfe14]

adam_grif wrote...
 A Wizard doing it is the only explanation at this point.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Just because YOU don't understand how they do it does not mean that it is impossible.  It's called science fiction for a reason.

Stop letting the minutiae ruin it for you, just sit back and enjoy the ride man.

[marshalleck]

Ninjawaffle23 wrote...

Refardless of whether or not they actually get there or how they do it, isn't there somewhere in me or me2 where they are referred to as 'dormant'...how'd they wake up?

Sovereign periodically woke up, took some readings to determine the state of galactic society, and then went back to sleep. It woke up for good roughly 2000 years before the events of ME1, people speculate.

[serjwolf]

Bigeyez wrote...

Ninjawaffle23 wrote...


I guess that makes sense. I just figure with them being super computer gods they would have soem kind of fail safe or at leats a plan B...
If they are coiming here personally they're gonna be  piiiiiiissed...well as pissed as an "Old Machine" can be...

Presumably their Plan B is what we take down in ME 2.

exactly, case closed

[mintek]

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

They are in front of the milky way in an angle that show them as being able to see the totality of the galaxy itself. That means they are hundread of thousands of light years away. Meaning even at FTL speed shepard would be dead  for a long time before they even arrive. They have a plans, but they always rely on making something able to attack the citadel, first one was the geth army, next one was a human repear consctruction. 3rd one will be something else as harbringer says at the end we will find another way. We will never enter direct combat with the reaper for mass effect 3 mark my words, first its unoriginal and second it makes a single person like shepard useless as you cant defeat a fleet with bullets.

[SunfighterG8]

truedark wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

truedark wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

You know that, right?

Obviously, which is why I said I gave up on it last page. For that very reason. A Wizard doing it is the only explanation at this point.

You're forgetting Newton's first law. All the reapers have to do is accelerate to a speed and then they're golden. They can go back into hibernation and still make it.

I already said that exact thing pages back.

The problem is that they AREN'T doing that, because they have only started moving a few years back and ME3 isn't going to take place 15,000 years in the future. It's the commander Shepard story - and It will be a few years at most after ME2.

This implies they're getting here via FTL.

FTL is not subject to inerta here. They need to maintain drive core charge otherwise they drop down to non-FTL speeds.

Heres a good question. Why didn't the black hole that you see after the Mu Relay pull the Normandy in?

If you divide anything by 0 the answer is infinite because you can put 0 infinitely into whatever number it is.

because black holes dont actually suck and secondly if you can see the black hole it means your outside its radius of control. It would only effect you once you pass the event horizon at which point you wouldnt be able to see out of it

[marshalleck]

Actually their first move against the Citadel and contemporary races was turning the Rachni against the Council.



Sovereign was trying to take the Citadel for a long time.

[adam_grif]

truedark wrote...


Heres a good question. Why didn't the black hole that you see after the Mu Relay pull the Normandy in?

Because black hole don't "suck you in" unless you're extremely close to them. They exert the same gravitational pull that the star that formed them had. So you won't get "sucked into a black hole" unless you're close enough to get "sucked into a star".

2. Try studying some higher math than just basic algebra.

In "real number" arithmetic, division by zero is meaningless.

http://en.wikipedia....ivision_by_zero

Read all about it!

1. Except with Mass Effect Relays. Which the Reapers designed and made...

Which need stationary way points to fly between. For instance, the citadel. You need another Mass Relay to "catch you" on the other end, aka the citadel.

If they can just fly back using this tech and don't actually need relays, why did the first game exist? Why was it a big deal that Sovreign couldn't activate the Citadel relay? Why don't they just cruise in like this every time? 

Do you see the problem?

Modifié par adam_grif, 02 février 2010 - 03:11 .

[HelterSkelter89]

truedark wrote...

HelterSkelter89 wrote...

truedark wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
They're a self-contained system with nothing eating away at it t decay them. Although impressive, "being functional after 37 million years" is not on the same level (and is at least possible) as "has been firing its engines up constantly for 37 million years without refueling".

We're laboriously working our way toward "A wizard did it."

You know that, right?

Obviously, which is why I said I gave up on it last page. For that very reason. A Wizard doing it is the only explanation at this point.

You're forgetting Newton's first law. All the reapers have to do is accelerate to a speed and then they're golden. They can go back into hibernation and still make it.

even in deep space there are still forces acting on any objects. no matter what point you are at in space you are still under the effects of gravity. you could travel to the opposite side of the universe and you would still be acted on by earth's gravitational pull (yes earth) though it would be extremely weak. so no they could not just accelerate towards the galaxy and get there. if they tried this it would take them hundreds of thousands of years and way way more fuel than they oculd possibly have.

The only force of gravity that is going to have a noticable effect is currently the Milkyways. Which would only speed them up.

it wouldn't really speed them up so much as divert their course towards the largest gravitational pull. fthey could be acted on by any forces nearing them as they were to travel towards the milky way, comets, asteroids, this would all pull them off course. not to mention the effects of other nearby galaxies some of which are relatively close to our own (some would consider them part of it) if you were to just aim for the citadel from deep space and then hibernate for the thousdands maybe millions of years it would take to thrust toward the milky way you would end up in an entirely different spot, maybe even be slingshotted in a completely different direction.

[Bigeyez]

I think you guys are trying waaaay to hard to try and explain the unexplainable here. All the in universe tech is based on Dark Energy, which we have virtually no information on in the real world. It IS the equivalent of "A wizard did it".



Mass Effect physics break our real world physics all the time. Biotics do it, FTL travel does it, Mass Relays do it, hell the Blackstorm does it every time you fire it.

[Shannara13]

adam_grif wrote...

Which need stationary way points to fly between. For instance, the citadel. You need another Mass Relay to "catch you" on the other end, aka the citadel.

If they can just fly back using this tech and don't actually need relays, why did the first game exist? Why was it a big deal that Sovreign couldn't activate the Citadel relay? Why don't they just cruise in like this every time? 

Do you see the problem?

Because using the Citadel gave them a back way in and a suprise attack where they can isolate the entire galaxy from each other. This allows them to take over with minimal to no resistance. If they have to fly in then they will have to face the combined armies of every other race which is not a prefered situation.

[Chained_Creator]

Shannara13 wrote...
1. Except with Mass Effect Relays. Which the Reapers designed and made...

2. Try studying some higher math than just basic algebra.

What, wheel theory?

[akintu]

adam_grif wrote...
1. Irrelevant. We're arguing using in-universe logic and science. In-universe, the science says that drive core charges build up and **** starts happening if it does. In universe, ships need fuel to get places.

2. No it's not. Please don't teach a math class.

If you attempt to divide by zero you don't get a defined answer, because the question doesn't make sense. If I have 8 pieces of pie, and I divide it evenly amongst 0 people, how many pieces of pie does each of the 0 people get? Do each of the 0 people get infinite slices of pie? That can't be right, there are only 8 slices of pie! Do each of them get 8? But that can't be right, there's nobody to give it to! Does each person get 0 pieces of pie? But then you're not even dividing the pie up...

The answer is undefined.

Your rebuttal on zero is correct obviously

I want to raise the point that the main danger of drive core charge building up is to the crew and sensitive equipment.  Reapers have no crew, and it may be possible without getting too crazy to protect sensitive equipment.  Reapers don't need much fuel to maintain FTL speeds.  All they need is enough to accelerate/decelerate and then enough to maintain the energy requirements for their drive core.

A ship with a crew is not going to be able to cruise for very long at FTL speeds because of drive charge reasons.  So they're stuck accelerating, decelerating, discharging, reaccelerating, decelerating, discharging, etc.  That's going to require lots of fuel.  But if you assume you can accelerate to what, 100s of times light speed?  And then just drift by means of inertia and a huge drive core that doesn't need to discharge, the Reapers could be coming quite fast.  Not mass relay fast, but within a few years fast.

In my opinion, the reason for the Citadel relay is not to ensure they can return in a timely manner, but to ensure there is always a surprise attack location that can decapitate galactic civilization.  I don't think the Reapers are so numerous that they can handle the galaxy without divide and conquer tactics.

[SunfighterG8]

Why is the omega 4 relay's energy red when all the others are white/blue? It behaved like any other gate right? The only other red energy ive seen in this game is from a reaper..

[adam_grif]

Shannara13 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Which need stationary way points to fly between. For instance, the citadel. You need another Mass Relay to "catch you" on the other end, aka the citadel.

If they can just fly back using this tech and don't actually need relays, why did the first game exist? Why was it a big deal that Sovreign couldn't activate the Citadel relay? Why don't they just cruise in like this every time? 

Do you see the problem?

Because using the Citadel gave them a back way in and a suprise attack where they can isolate the entire galaxy from each other. This allows them to take over with minimal to no resistance. If they have to fly in then they will have to face the combined armies of every other race which is not a prefered situation.

Right, but if they can just use this magical "Not regular FTL" propulsion to cross intergalactic distances in short periods of time, and there is no such thing as an FTL sensor, then they can just fly straight past everybody else and take the Citadel before  they can react, exactly like they can using the Citadel relay normally.

It's not like waiting to get here is a big problem since they're doing it now, and they have 50,000 years between cycles. Hell, if they can get to any old relay in the network they can get to the Citadel in minimal time anyway.

[Giantevilhead]

adam_grif wrote...
1. Except with Mass Effect Relays. Which the Reapers designed and made...

Which need stationary way points to fly between. For instance, the citadel. You need another Mass Relay to "catch you" on the other end, aka the citadel.

If they can just fly back using this tech and don't actually need relays, why did the first game exist? Why was it a big deal that Sovreign couldn't activate the Citadel relay? Why don't they just cruise in like this every time? 

Do you see the problem?

Just because people can get from New York to Los Angeles by driving doesn't make plane travel between the two cities obsolete.

The Citadel serves two purposes, it calls the Reapers back from dark space, and it controls all the mass relays in the galaxy. The whole point of taking the Citadel is to make the extermination of life in the galaxy easier and more efficient.

If the Reapers just flew into the Milky Way, it would take them much longer and the residents of the galaxy will be able to put up a much better defense. The Reapers may see themselves as gods but that doesn't mean they're willing to waste time and resources.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 02 février 2010 - 03:19 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Didn't that Harbinger creep say that they would look for another way before leaving the Collector General to die? Maybe they're just mobilizing, not really coming in through the Citadel.