191 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

They said they would find another way. It seemed by making human reapers they hoped to build a fleet closer to the galaxy and then jump them in through the Omega relay. With that option gone, I imagine something to do with Dark Energy will come into play. Perhaps they will collapse a star and create a new mass relay of some kind?

[Giantevilhead]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...


It's unlikely that the journey will take them just a few years. It'll probably take hundreds, maybe thousands of years. As for how much the galaxy can change during that time, we don't know what conditions have to be met before the Reapers decide to invade. We don't even really know why the Reapers do all this. If it's part of some kind of grand experiment on the part of the Reapers then there may very well be a certain span of time when they have to begin the extermination in order to get the optimal results they want.

The mass relays in the galaxy can't connect directly to the Citadel. If the Reapers just reached a mass relay on the edge of the galaxy, they would still have to jump through several mass relays to get to the Citadel. That would alert the inhabitants of the galaxy and give them a chance to defend themselves.

If the journey took thousands of years, Reapers wouldn't be a threat to the current galactic civilization.  Hell, in that time, the galaxy itself could advance far enough to challenge the Reapers.

I said that it would probably take the Reapers thousands of years to get to the Milky Way if they don't use the Citadel relay.

The Reapers have been around for at least 37 million years. What makes you
think that the races in the galaxy can create technology to defeat the
Reapers in just a few thousand years?

If someone could hop from one end of the galaxy to the other in a few short days using the Relay network, what makes you think that the Reapers, the machines that created the Mass Relays don't possess the technology to hurl themselves as fast as the Relays hurl objects?

If the Reapers could hurl themselves as fast as the relays then
they wouldn't need to take the Citadel. They would hurl themselves
directly at the Citadel from dark space and arrive there in a day.

The Mass Relays in the galaxy don't directly link to the Citadel (except for the mini Relay in Illos), but there's a Mass Relay in Dark Space that links directly to the Citadel (as the Citadel itself is an inactive Relay that works in conjuction with the Dark Space Relay).

My point was that since the relays don't connect to the Citadel, if the Reapers used the relay network to get to Citadel, it would alert the races in the galaxy to their existence and allow them to put up a defense.

The Reapers, once in the galaxy, would only need the Citadel to map out where they would go to initiate their extinction event.  They wouldn't need it to travel.

Except they do need it to travel as shown in ME1 when Sovereign had to use the Conduit to get to the Citadel instead of using some kind of inbuilt mass relay system.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 02 février 2010 - 04:00 .

[mintek]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

You honestly think they wouldn't have modified their shells in order to reach Relay speeds, assuming they weren't able to do so beforehand? 

And what recoursces would they use to modifie themself? They are in dark space and we just learned they build themself using ppl genetic material. There not much genetic meterial in dark space. Why wouldnt they have done these modifications before? Why does sovereign needed to use the relay to get anywhere? Its just obivious they just cant fly at that speed.

[Bigeyez]

adam_grif wrote...

(I get the impression that mass relay travel is very fast, but we've never been given exact numbers).

Mass Relay travel has to be insanely fast. EDI estimates the trip from the Omega Relay to the Collector base would take 2 hours. The base being somewhere inside the galactic core means you essentially went from one of the galaxys arms to the core in 2 hours. Thats multiple times faster then light speed.

Travel would probably seem instantaneous if you were traveling between relays that are "close" to each other.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that many people in here are making assumptions on the Reapers. Sure Sovereign says the Mass Relay technology is theirs, but that doesn't necesarily mean they can build the Relays, or even built the ones we use. I've always found it odd that if the Reapers did indeed build the Mass Relay network they couldn't just reprogram the relay they have in dark space (the one that leads to the Citadel) to take them somewhere else? If they really built the technology themselves they must have some way of altering where the Relay takes them. I believe someone else built both the Reapers and the Relay network.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 02 février 2010 - 04:09 .

[Giantevilhead]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

mintek wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Considering that the Reapers built the Relays, it's obvious that they'd be able to reach comparable speeds.  The Relay's are just used as roads to get where they're going.  They check the Citadel to see which Relay's have been turned on and which Relays connect to solar systems that are colonized by life advanced enough for their needs. 

Without the Relays, searching every single star system in the galaxy would take entirely too long, and it's likey that the search would burn out their resources, not the travel.

The fact that they built the relay doesent mean their body can move at that speed, if they could they would instantly be in the galaxie and not need the citadel. They cant its as simple as that. They need the relay activated to travel at this speed like any ship. Look at it this way, just because your car can go over 100km doesent mean you can on foot. Same for the reaper because their technologie makes it possible doesent mean they can do it themself.

You honestly think they wouldn't have modified their shells in order to reach Relay speeds, assuming they weren't able to do so beforehand?  They need the Citadel to get data on where civilizations are set up in the galaxy to make their extinction event more efficient.  Since they always attack after the same set amount of time, it's safe to assume that they're low on resources when they come back to attack, so wandering the galaxy for tens of thousands of years to kill off all advanced life is a waste.

And if you don't think it'd take tens of thousands of years, think about this: it takes them a few centuries to purse the galaxy of advanced life when they KNOW WHERE EVERYONE IS.

Did you play ME1? Sovereign, was never able to travel at relay speeds without using a relay. Sovereign had to activate the Citadel relay in order to call the Reapers back from dark space. If the Reapers could travel at relay speeds without using relays, then they would have already taken the Citadel.

[adam_grif]

Bigeyez wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

(I get the impression that mass relay travel is very fast, but we've never been given exact numbers).

Mass Relay travel has to be insanely fast. EDI estimates the trip from the Omega Relay to the Collector base would take 2 hours. The base being somewhere inside the galactic core means you essentially went from one of the galaxys arms to the core in 2 hours. Thats multiple times faster then light speed.

Travel would probably seem instantaneous if you were traveling between relays that are "close" to each other.

That's hundreds or thousands of times lightspeed. Easily.

[Giantevilhead]

adam_grif wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

(I get the impression that mass relay travel is very fast, but we've never been given exact numbers).

Mass Relay travel has to be insanely fast. EDI estimates the trip from the Omega Relay to the Collector base would take 2 hours. The base being somewhere inside the galactic core means you essentially went from one of the galaxys arms to the core in 2 hours. Thats multiple times faster then light speed.

Travel would probably seem instantaneous if you were traveling between relays that are "close" to each other.

That's hundreds or thousands of times lightspeed. Easily.

It's probably more like tens of millions of times the speed of light. 1,000,000 times the speed of light only gets you 228 light years in 2 hours. The galaxy is 100,000 light years in diameter. The Normandy traveled at least a couple thousand light years in 2 hours.

[adam_grif]

Nice. Even better.



Regular FTL is "a dozen lightyears in a days cruise". That gives it 2-5 years to reach the milky way from the local void, if that's where the reapers are.

[Kittykat1984]

The term dark space is actually quite accurate, if you consider that if you were between Andromeda and the milky way you'd be in pitch black. with a handful of little blurry patches of yellow/white light that are extremely dim. Even assuming they are going at 600x the speed of light. it'd still take them decades to just reach the outer rim of the galaxy, much less get to the citadel.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Giantevilhead wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

mintek wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Considering that the Reapers built the Relays, it's obvious that they'd be able to reach comparable speeds.  The Relay's are just used as roads to get where they're going.  They check the Citadel to see which Relay's have been turned on and which Relays connect to solar systems that are colonized by life advanced enough for their needs. 

Without the Relays, searching every single star system in the galaxy would take entirely too long, and it's likey that the search would burn out their resources, not the travel.

The fact that they built the relay doesent mean their body can move at that speed, if they could they would instantly be in the galaxie and not need the citadel. They cant its as simple as that. They need the relay activated to travel at this speed like any ship. Look at it this way, just because your car can go over 100km doesent mean you can on foot. Same for the reaper because their technologie makes it possible doesent mean they can do it themself.

You honestly think they wouldn't have modified their shells in order to reach Relay speeds, assuming they weren't able to do so beforehand?  They need the Citadel to get data on where civilizations are set up in the galaxy to make their extinction event more efficient.  Since they always attack after the same set amount of time, it's safe to assume that they're low on resources when they come back to attack, so wandering the galaxy for tens of thousands of years to kill off all advanced life is a waste.

And if you don't think it'd take tens of thousands of years, think about this: it takes them a few centuries to purse the galaxy of advanced life when they KNOW WHERE EVERYONE IS.

Did you play ME1? Sovereign, was never able to travel at relay speeds without using a relay. Sovereign had to activate the Citadel relay in order to call the Reapers back from dark space. If the Reapers could travel at relay speeds without using relays, then they would have already taken the Citadel.

You know, I just had an epiphany, so I'm not even going to argue my point.  If Reapers were capable of Relay speeds on their own, then it could've just flew to the Citadel, destroyed the fleet, and had Saren and the Geth ransack the place without getting to Illos.

So yeah, I was dumb.  Carry on, folks.

[Brahlis]

Ninjawaffle23 wrote...
Well this would make sense except for the fact that if the reapers can wait 50 million years, they can't wait another 2 years to get her? I mean they were still pretty far but if they're goin FTL they'll make it pretty quick.

No, no they would not get here quick.This proves you have no idea what you're talking about and this thread is completely pointless.

Do you have any idea just how far out they are at the ending scene of the game? Even going the speed of light, it'd take them hundreds of thousands or more years to get to even the edge of the galaxy.

[TheKnave69]

D3thray wrote...

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

You have no concept of galactic distances do you?  If they were even traveling 100 times the speed of light they're still about 1000 years from reaching the EDGE of the galaxy.  The only remotely practical way for them to get around even in the Mass Effect universe is via mass relay.

Maybe they have a network of unknown relays and they were on their way to a staging area.  According to the mythos, new relays are always being discovered.  How many are still out there...  Good gravy, it's like stargate.

[Giantevilhead]

adam_grif wrote...

If they're using normal FTL, how are they storing several years of fuel? Also, how are they avoiding the drive-charge problem associated with FTL travel? Ships have to stop after a few days of cruise, maximum, to discharge somewhere. You can't discharge into vacuum.

The Reapers are much more advanced so they probably worked out most of those problems. The only problem they have is speed.

[mintek]

TheKnave69 wrote...

D3thray wrote...

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

You have no concept of galactic distances do you?  If they were even traveling 100 times the speed of light they're still about 1000 years from reaching the EDGE of the galaxy.  The only remotely practical way for them to get around even in the Mass Effect universe is via mass relay.

Maybe they have a network of unknown relays and they were on their way to a staging area.  According to the mythos, new relays are always being discovered.  How many are still out there...  Good gravy, it's like stargate.

Mabye but if they did, why would sovergien put his own life in danger to activate the citadel since his signal didnt work, when it could have used a back up relay?

Modifié par mintek, 02 février 2010 - 04:22 .

[Bigeyez]

Who wants to place bets on whether Bioware ignores all these obvious problems with the Reapers being so far away and come up with a "A wizard did it approach", probably having to do with one of the many foreshadowed things in the game. (The dying star, etc)

[Nigawatts]

They are taking a greater risk by doing this. You see by just jumping to the Citadel they can cut off the entire Galactic Government, and then slowly concentrate on locating and stamping out the rest.



It is a very systematic process that allows the Reapers to hold all the cards and pretty much cut the head of the body and then slowly eat the body.



Now they have to enter the Galaxy from the Outer Rim (starwars yo), they'll actually be facing a war since they'll eventually be found. The galaxy will be better able to make good judgments, and will actually be able to put up a fight.



In a sense the original Reaper plan is like shooting fish in a barrel. The current Reaper plan is basically invade the Galaxy and hope the Reaper Fleet can exploit the in-fighting, the racism, and most of all, the lack of trust in Commander Shepard by the powers that be.



Which is why ME3 will most likely involve recruting entire armies to fight the war against the Reapers. And it'll end in a large Battle of Endor type event.

[Souldead341]

What if they have the means of making a new relay in the Milky Way? It's not unreasonable to think that they can't redirct their relay in dark space to another because of scale, since the Citadel is much larger than a normal relay. If they were to construct a new one then they would get into the galaxy and avoid the long distance FTL issues.



We already know that the star in the quarian system is collapsing. If I remember correctly, element zero is formed in dieing stars. This would likely give enough to make a new relay. If they could do that, then they would gain access to the current relay system without needing the citadel.

[screwoffreg]

Except instead of fighting one Death Star, each Reaper is capable of taking chunks of a fleet with it. The game will probably involve Shepard finding another way to be the Reapers, as even a direct fleet confrontation would end in disaster.

[Kittykat1984]

the real reason as I understood if they don't want to come by FTL is that it would be such a drain on their systems. They only have so much power etc, and traveling all that distance would put them in desperation when they arrived.

[Giantevilhead]

Kittykat1984 wrote...

The term dark space is actually quite accurate, if you consider that if you were between Andromeda and the milky way you'd be in pitch black. with a handful of little blurry patches of yellow/white light that are extremely dim. Even assuming they are going at 600x the speed of light. it'd still take them decades to just reach the outer rim of the galaxy, much less get to the citadel.

Andromeda is 2.3 million light years away from the Milky Way. If you were in the middle of the two galaxies, it would take over 1,900 years to get to the Milky Way traveling at 600c. It's more likely that the Reapers are still in the Local Group. The closest galaxy is the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, which is about 25,000 light years from earth and 40,000 light years from the galactic center.

[Kittykat1984]

Aye

[mintek]

Souldead341 wrote...

What if they have the means of making a new relay in the Milky Way? It's not unreasonable to think that they can't redirct their relay in dark space to another because of scale, since the Citadel is much larger than a normal relay. If they were to construct a new one then they would get into the galaxy and avoid the long distance FTL issues.

Probably one of the best theory so far. We wont ever fight the army of reaper directly. We just stop their plans to come in, the next victory over their plans will prove to be a definitive victory type of thing. Perhaps reaper just all die if they dont get here in time.  ''We will find another way'' could be anything but it means they are working on a plan to get here, which is whats been happening since me1 and even before during the rachni wars. If it was as simple as flying in the galaxie they would have done that as soon as they saw the citadel didnt work few thousand years ago insted of trying all differnt type of attack against the citadel to warn us.

Modifié par mintek, 02 février 2010 - 04:31 .

[gethspy]

sorry to be all fanboy about it but this is simply them deciding "f&%k it we'll go the long way" witch still costs them months or even years as well as the element of suprise

[Bigeyez]

Souldead341 wrote...

What if they have the means of making a new relay in the Milky Way? It's not unreasonable to think that they can't redirct their relay in dark space to another because of scale, since the Citadel is much larger than a normal relay. If they were to construct a new one then they would get into the galaxy and avoid the long distance FTL issues.

We already know that the star in the quarian system is collapsing. If I remember correctly, element zero is formed in dieing stars. This would likely give enough to make a new relay. If they could do that, then they would gain access to the current relay system without needing the citadel.

If they can't redirect the relay they have in dark space then what would be the point of constructing a new one inside our galaxy. Since they can't redirect the one they have access to, building a new one wouldn't help in any way. Not to mention they would need to build 2 Relays, one in dark space where they are and an end point in our galaxy, because the Relays only function in pairs.  (And if they CAN redirect the one they have in dark space, why wouldn't they just do that instead of waste all this time trying to find other ways into the galaxy)

And thats ignoring the whole question of how they would even build a relay inside our galaxy now that the Collectors are dead and presumably there are no other Reapers inside of the Milky Way.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 02 février 2010 - 04:39 .

[Solar Flare]

marshalleck wrote...

So if you compare this picture with this map.  upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/236084main_MilkyWay-full-annotated.jpg

It would appear the Reapers are already past one of the outside rings of the Milky Way Galaxy, and are thus, already in the galaxy.  Let me explain, judging by the way the rings of the galaxy are set up (and the subsequent Reaper positioning), I figure the Reapers are about at the 45 degree direction, and somewhere between 45,000 and 60,000 LYs away.

So if I do happen to be right about this, we can stop the "they're gonna be cruising for a million years to get here" argument. 

What do you people think?

Modifié par Solar Flare, 02 février 2010 - 04:39 .