191 réponses à ce sujet

[CokaCola Cat]

I think they'll find another way, which has probably already been "set up" in game and will be revealed in ME3.

[Souldead341]

If they can't redirect the relay they have in dark space then what would be the point of constructing a new one inside our galaxy. Since they can't redirect the one they have access to, how would building a new one help in any way. Not to mention they would need to build 2 Relays, one in dark sapce where they are and an end point in our galaxy, because the Relays only function in pairs.



And thats ignoring the whole question of how they would even build a relay inside our galaxy now that the Collectors are dead and presumably there are no other Reapers inside of the Milky Way.

What I was saying is that they wouldn't be able to redirect one of the normal relays due to the fact that a normal relay is much smaller than the citadel.



Even if they can't redirect their current relay, why couldn't they also build a new one in dark space?



We also have no reason to believe that the Collectors were the only race controlled by the Reapers. They could have other groups in the galaxy to serve them. They would only activate one at a time to avoid showing all their cards.



This, like the entire thread, is all just a theory. However, I think that this seems more likely than the reapers being able to overcome the FTL issues.

[Bigeyez]

Solar Flare wrote...

snip

Even at that distance we're still talking thousands of years if they are moving at FTL speeds. 60,000 light years of distance at a dozen or so light years a day is a hellava lot of time.

[Bigeyez]

Souldead341 wrote...

What I was saying is that they wouldn't be able to redirect one of the normal relays due to the fact that a normal relay is much smaller than the citadel.

Even if they can't redirect their current relay, why couldn't they also build a new one in dark space?

We also have no reason to believe that the Collectors were the only race controlled by the Reapers. They could have other groups in the galaxy to serve them. They would only activate one at a time to avoid showing all their cards.

This, like the entire thread, is all just a theory. However, I think that this seems more likely than the reapers being able to overcome the FTL issues.

But they're in dark space. What would they use to build a new relay?

True on the Collectors bit. I wouldn't doubt it if we find more Reaper pawns in Me 3.

[Souldead341]

But they're in dark space. What would they use to build a new relay?



True on the Collectors bit. I wouldn't doubt it if we find more Reaper pawns in Me 3.

Perhaps by taking apart the other relay. Alternatively they could use suppies stored for the next invasion or even take apart some of the many Reapers that we know are there.

[Bigeyez]

Souldead341 wrote...

But they're in dark space. What would they use to build a new relay?

True on the Collectors bit. I wouldn't doubt it if we find more Reaper pawns in Me 3.

Perhaps by taking apart the other relay. Alternatively they could use suppies stored for the next invasion or even take apart some of the many Reapers that we know are there.

I'm sorry but that just seems really unlikely. If that were the answer then why haven't they done that already? Why bother with all their other plans? Why not just create the Relay and stat makin their way towards the Citadel?

[Sharn01]

They are still very far away, it would take hundreds of thousands of light years to cross the galaxy moving at the speed of light, and they are not even in the galaxy. Appearances can be decieving, if they dont find some other method of travel I imagine it will still be a couple hundred thousand light years before they reached any mass relay.

The game does not get too specific on how fast they can move, so it "could" be possible that they can move so fast that they can arrive in a few light years, but if they had the ability to travel at that speed it completely defeats the purpose of the first ME. They would not have needed a relay at that speed, it would have been pointless since there would have been no way to mass a fleet against them even if they just flew in from dark space straight to the citidel, it still would be a complete surprise.

[It IS Lupus]

drhys23 wrote...

i assumed they were still in dark space (which i'm guessing is past the omega 4 relay?) during the ending, but they were gathering. i'm also assuming that if they can fill two whole games witht ehir lackies, finding some in the 3rd one who actually lets them out shouldnt be hard.

the omega 4 relay leads to the Galactic core. not dark space.

[Nigawatts]

screwoffreg wrote...

Except instead of fighting one Death Star, each Reaper is capable of taking chunks of a fleet with it. The game will probably involve Shepard finding another way to be the Reapers, as even a direct fleet confrontation would end in disaster.

A fleet took down Sovereign, they aren't unbeatable. It will just take a massive amount of resources and lives to defeat them. Damnit that's how we fight wars! We throw the Quarians at them  >.>

[Weaponslayer]

Well, they're talking the long way and I imagine FTL speeds are very very high. Also, building mass relays probably takes way too long. I imagine that the standard mass relays have a certain limit to the distance they can travel. Therefore they would need to build another citadel-sized relay to jump that distance from dark space which would take even longer. So the question is, why did they not build more citadel sized relays in the first place as backup? I think that it's due to their confidence since they wiped out all other civilisations for the past millions of years. They thought it would be no different this time. Obviously they were wrong.

[Geowil]

I think it makes perfect sense if you piece together what some people said in the first page. Even if it takes a few years and lots of energy (refering to FTLT), a reaper was killed. Something that has not happened in a very very long time (evidence the reaper suspended near the Brown Dwarf, it was said it was millions, perhaps billions, of years old). If there was a species capable of killing a Reaper of course they would want to return to the inhabitable galaxy to cleanse it asap instead of waiting for the Citadel relay.

That being said who knows, but for sure it will be divulged in ME3.

Modifié par Geowil, 02 février 2010 - 05:08 .

[Souldead341]

I'm sorry but that just seems really unlikely. If that were the answer then why haven't they done that already? Why bother with all their other plans? Why not just create the Relay and stat makin their way towards the Citadel?

Again, this is all theory. We have no way of knowing how long that star's being aging at an accelerated rate, outside of since the geth rebellion. We know it's already started, and if it is the Reapers trying to build a new gate than it would likely be a parallel option to the Collectors. Both plans would take many years to fulfil, and we know they didn't start the Collectors harvestng humans until after Sovereign failed. If that's the case they started the new Reaper and new relay at the same time. It just happens that Shepherd was in the position to stop the more obvious of the plans.



It just seems more likely to me than the Reapers overcoming the many issues of FTL from that distance in Shepherd's life. They're no real evidence to support this, other than the obvious setup with the star dieing being important in some way.

[tsd16]

Okami_Stormson wrote...

EJon wrote...

In the ending - they were in front of the Milky Way galaxy. They're not far away from attacking.

Uh, they are QUITE a far way away, especially for travel without relay.  Take in mind how long it takes you to travel from system to system inside on "sector" and that you CANT travel from sector to sector except via Mass Relay.

Then realize the fact they're outside the Milky Way disc completely and are cruising in without any form of Relay.

Their incentive for using the relay and wanting to do so is simple. If you could effectively teleport from California to Washington DC in 2 seconds, or drive, which would you use?

I think what most people are dismissing is the fact, obviously this system and worked for the reapers for an amount of time we cannot comprehend.  Its been made clear the protheans were one of many.  I dont see an issue with the reapers having the idea "if it aint broke, dont fix it".   its a better plan than a full bore assault that they can see coming, which would give the galaxy an opportunity to unite and defend itself.  I mean literally though, nobody save a few actually believe the reapers exist, that shows you how good of a plan it is.  If shep or humans were not around at the time, the reapers are finishing up cleanup duties right now on the galaxy.  

 Humans seem to be the wrench that has finally gummed up the works of the reapers system.  As mentioned in the codex, the other races stagnate, they dont really advance beyond the technology they have once they reach the citadel, which is exactly what the reapers anticipate for.  Which is why they set up the relays, for technology to advance how they see fit they make the people dependant on the technology.  The other council races are intimidated by human ingenuity and rapid advancement and adaptation.  with the martian prothean ruins, I wouldnt be surprised to find out that the protheans genetically engineered humans to be more adaptive and ingenious than most naturally occuring species, as a last ditch kick in the ass to the reapers from beyond the grave.


I think im most interested in finding out where the reapers came from, obviously they did require a maker no matter what they say.  Robots are not naturally occuring, no matter what transformers says.  I have a feeling its going to be a story like the geth and quarians, an ancient race created the relays / citadel and a crazy AI, that revolted.  they exterminated their masters, turned their tech into a trap for any other advanced civs that arise.

Modifié par tsd16, 02 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[marshalleck]

Solar Flare wrote...

So if you compare this picture with this map.  upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/236084main_MilkyWay-full-annotated.jpg

It would appear the Reapers are already past one of the outside rings of the Milky Way Galaxy, and are thus, already in the galaxy.  Let me explain, judging by the way the rings of the galaxy are set up (and the subsequent Reaper positioning), I figure the Reapers are about at the 45 degree direction, and somewhere between 45,000 and 60,000 LYs away.

So if I do happen to be right about this, we can stop the "they're gonna be cruising for a million years to get here" argument. 

What do you people think?

I think the problem with saying the Reapers don't need the Citadel relay (or any relay linking to dark space) is that if that's the case, the story of the first Mass Effect should never have existed. They'd just warp in and eat us all.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 février 2010 - 05:46 .

[Rankao]

All the Reapers need to do is get access to one Mass Relay. If it isn't activated they could sacrifice one of the reapers to start up a new one. Now the reapers are ships that have a powerful enough

Mass Core to do the following thing that normal ships can not

1) Land on Planets, ships of that size could not land of a planet without a Mass Core large enough.

2) Turn around fast enough to "rip the bearings of any ship"

Obviously the Reapers would have Mass Core strong enough to bring themselves up to FTL speeds far beyond the norm. The Reapers aren't fast enough to match Relay Speeds, but they are capable to reach an undefined number which is greater than any ship including the Normandy. So let’s assume that Relay Speeds bring ships up to at least 30,000 light years per Nano-second. (The 2 hours was the time for Normandy to reach the Omega 4 relay from the Omega Relay. ) Normandy hit those speeds at the Critical levels meaning that normal ships can't reach near those speeds on a Relay and can't be thrown as far the Normandy was during the Omega 4 jump. So 30,000 light years Per nano-second is our Max with the power of the Relays with a powerful drive core and a low mass ship.

The Screenshot suggest the reapers are relativity close something between 50 kLYs to 300 kLys away. I'm going to go with above 300 kLYs. The next Mass Effect 3 will like place within the next 5 years. However, I'm going to suggest that its either 1 year or Two. This means that the Reaper ships have to travel 1-2k Light Year per day. In the ME universe I would consider this completely possible. In ME universe we are traveling in clusters that are 30 to 100 light years apart. The time to travel at FTL speeds are going to be under a few hours.

So in ME universe FTL is completely capable of reaching 1k Light year per day at a significant fuel cost. The Key words there though are a significant fuel cost. Now let’s use ME2 as a reference point for fuel cost. Traveling more than a few hours at FTL speeds was quite expensive for a small ship like the Normandy SR2. Obviously a single Reaper could not travel 300 kLYs for 300 days straight. However there was countless reapers . It is very likely that harvesting the sentient species and their resources is absolutely necessary for their survival. The need both organic matter and element zero.

So how many reapers where there? Let’s consider that the known oldest reaper was around 100 million (or was it simply in the 1’s of millions? ) years old. Pick a safe number around 200,000,000. 200milliong divided by 50k would be around 4 thousand. Now let’s suggest that the reapers can make anywhere between 1 and 100 new reapers per cycle. Then we would have about 4k to 400k reapers.

Why is the number of reapers important? Because we needed fuel source remember? Where are the reapers going to be able to get fuel source to reach the Milky Way? Cannibalizing other reapers. Likely it would be done voluntarily simply because the survival of the reapers as a whole is at stake (Ironic I know) . This would give a few plot points for the story. 1) Why the reapers were able to reach the Milky Way and 2) Why there are a billion (exaggerated of course) or so reapers as shown in the Preview of the invasion. However 10-20k reapers Is enough to do their job, which is to bring order to the galaxy.

Or maybe because a Reaper invasion makes the storey EPIC!

[RavenholmeCP42]

adam_grif wrote...

If they're using normal FTL, how are they storing several years of fuel? Also, how are they avoiding the drive-charge problem associated with FTL travel? Ships have to stop after a few days of cruise, maximum, to discharge somewhere. You can't discharge into vacuum.

I'd be VERY surprised if they used the same form of FTL as the ships of the citadel races. They very likely have a much more efficient and fast version. The only advantage to relay travel is that it's nearly instantaneous to any other part of the galaxy.

[Weaponslayer]

@tsd16



I'm also interested in the origin of the reapers. My theory is that the first galactic civilisation made themselves into reapers in the manner you see at the end of ME2. As to the exact number of reapers, it's really hard say. Remember that they were unsuccessful with the Protheans so it's no guarantee they can make more of themselves every 50K years. However, to make the story truely epic, I imagine they would number at least in the tens of thousands. Remember, the reapers destroyed civilisations by very cheap means. Seize control of the citadel, destroy the leaders, seize control of all the mass relays and isolate all the systems. Never had they had to fight a unified fleet. So even if their numbers are so huge, I imagine they would first target the lightly defended colonies to harvest what they need. They would take the most logical and least costly path to victory.