116 réponses à ce sujet

[Focaccia]

They are worried about kids getting the wrong idea? Doesn't this game have a M rating? SO by definition kids can't play the game, so why worry?

[Ferelden Templar]

Roman Catholic here. Same-sex relationships weren't really that much of a bother for me. I just didn't take that path. It exists as an option for people to explore it for their PC. I've known Bioware since NWN, when the option was there. There are worse things you can do than having sex with the same gender in a Bioware game - some stuff that's downright evil. Those are the things that touch my Christian upbringing more. To this day, there are certain darkside decisions in KOTOR that I can't do...

For me personally, it is just a game with branching trees - but it does help you reflect and think on moral decisions. Mordin in ME2 brought up a lot of great viewpoints on morality. These experiences (even as a gamer) can only help strengthen yourself and whatever faith you belong to.

As for the hype, I feel that it just helps the game. Bad publicity is still publicity. Jimmy Kimmel and all the hoopla actually puts Dragon Age in a spotlight. You're part of a misunderstood clique that'll get people curious. They won't know until they've tried it.



To be honest, I was more creeped out by the Broodmother Orzammar sequences. That was really disturbing. But it was an experience nonetheless.

[Maferath]

ronshapard wrote...

Umm, there is more gamer outrage at christians in this thread then there is religious outrage about Dragon Age on the entire internet.

Is there? All I've seen in this thread is people making fun of some idiot fundies... and being laughed at is basically those guys' vocation anyway.

[Gwinever]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

FireDragon076 wrote...

Radical muslims have joined their voices with crazy christians over Dragon Ages gay sex scences.  Condeming the game Zev and Lelianna deeming them the works of Satan.  Seriously?  I really can't tell the difference between Chrisitans and Muslims.  I'm not gonna give these nutjobs a link but you can google Dragon Age Outrage to see what I'm talking about.

I think my favorite was the quote "Another example of liberals forcing you to become homosexual"

Where's your source?

Edit: Sorry, ignore me. Anyway this is nothing new from them religious whackos.

It is nice to see radical christians and muslims agree on something thoug, it's atleast 1 step in the right direction while 2 steps in the wrong direction:devil:

[ZeRux]

Maferath wrote...

ronshapard wrote...

Umm, there is more gamer outrage at christians in this thread then there is religious outrage about Dragon Age on the entire internet.

Is there? All I've seen in this thread is people making fun of some idiot fundies... and being laughed at is basically those guys' vocation anyway.

Well, just read the first post. I have a feeling that the thread starter searched the Internet for cases of religious outrage about Dragon Age just so he could have an excuse for anti-religious rant. On a lot of Internet sites it's quite popular to bash entire religion just because of actions of few deranged loons like Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps.

[Maria13]

[/quote]

It is nice to see radical christians and muslims agree on something thoug, it's atleast 1 step in the right direction while 2 steps in the wrong direction:devil:

[/quote]

Nothing like a bit of gamer bashing to bring people together...

[TheRealIncarnal]

Wonderful! The more radicals hate something the more assured you can be that it's absolutely awesome. I mean, having Radical Christians against it was one thing, but now that you've got the Radical Muslims then you know this game is really a party. We just need to try to get the Radical Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus to unite against this game and it will safely secure Dragon Age: Origin's place as the best thing ever. Also, maybe we can get some Radical Atheists to freak out also just for good measure...

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]Maria13 wrote...

[/quote]

It is nice to see radical christians and muslims agree on something thoug, it's atleast 1 step in the right direction while 2 steps in the wrong direction:devil:

[/quote]

Nothing like a bit of gamer bashing to bring people together...

[/quote]

To quote Alistair: You know, one nice thing about the Blight is how it brings people together...

But you bring up good points. It seems homphobia is one of those morality issues that the extreme Christian nutjobs and Muslim whackos agree fully on. perhaps more gaming companies need to do more to get them riled up. Maybe they will stop fighting wars and killing each other and instead unite to **** and flip out against evil Liberal agendas...

[Gwinever]

[quote]Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

[quote]Maria13 wrote...

[/quote]

It is nice to see radical christians and muslims agree on something thoug, it's atleast 1 step in the right direction while 2 steps in the wrong direction:devil:

[/quote]

Nothing like a bit of gamer bashing to bring people together...

[/quote]

[quote]To quote Alistair: You know, one nice thing about the Blight is how it brings people together...

But you bring up good points. It seems homphobia is one of those morality issues that the extreme Christian nutjobs and Muslim whackos agree fully on. perhaps more gaming companies need to do more to get them riled up. Maybe they will stop fighting wars and killing each other and instead unite to **** and flip out against evil Liberal agendas...

[/quote]

I actually wrote that, she misquoted:P

And i was thinking about that quote from Alistar 2 though i didn't remember it completely how he said it (i usually skip it:whistle:)

Also, i don't know if i wanna life in a world where those 2 factions actually get along as they just might push their rediculus standers on the rest of us. Can someone say back to the dark ages?

Modifié par Gwinever, 03 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[steelfire_dragon]

ummmm, I find rape and the murder in the city elf origins to be more outrageous than the gay scene.
(fact that somoene actually has a fit about it, makes me laugh at , but not as much as the fit they through over a teddy bear named Mohammud )


its a game, it doesnt promote homoism.


and as a Christian myself, I have nothing more to say about the matter.

[robertthebard]

Hasn't affected my gameplay, and the morality police haven't come knocking on my door, yet, so I guess they aren't all that outraged about it. Just more people that feel like if you're not living their way, you're doing it wrong. Ah well, no big loss if they don't like me, less people that I have to tell to STFU and go away.

[lqutois]

RangerSG wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I actually haven't seen any religious outrage over Dragon Age. Are you just going to random blogs and picking this up?

Because I can find websites where people claim the earth is a cube. I suppose 'random interweb person outraged at gay sex' isn't as interesting a thread title.

I haven't seen any either. And I'm an evangelical Christian.

Pat robertson did indeed talk about it.  Though I know many evangelical christians who consider him a fool.  I don't consider myself an evangelical (being a member of United Church of Christ...probably the most liberal christian denomianation in existence) but I certainly consider him a fool.  After what he said about Hati I can almost make myself think he will end up in hell.

*sigh*

[lqutois]

said a mom wrote...

Fringies like to hook on to anything popular cuz it gets them a minute of fame - those soldier funeral protesters nutballs showed up at my synagogue earlier this year and had taught their grade school kids to sing a song about how great the Holocaust was ... frankly if we are offending these people I rather think it means we are doing something right!

As a fellow christian I apologize for these people I hope they didn't cause anyone to much pain.  Honestly people who hate like this are the hardest people for me to love.  People who tarnish their kids like this should have them taken away from them.  I believe in the first amendment and free speech but people like this all most make me want to vote for hate speech laws.

[lqutois]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I am Muslim and I think those radicals are imbeciles. It's as if all our problems are solved and a game is the most important thing Muslims should be worried about.

Please help step up to control these people in your country!  As a westerner I really worry about what the crazy voters in my country will force the goverment to do if another large attack happens.  One of the many reasons I believe in alternate power is so we don't have to be friends with governments that fund schools were people are taught to hate me.

[lqutois]

Valadras21 wrote...

I think the whole thing is stupid, really. If you're offended by certain scenarios, don't put yourself in them. Furthermore, you might not want to buy a game rated M for Sexual themes, parial nudity, and blood and violence. That doesn't sound like a game that would support a few Christian ideals.

However, I'll be one of the first to agree that my elf is a beast. You can even ask Leliana...

amen brother

[Jae Onasi]

FireDragon076 wrote...

Radical muslims have joined their voices with crazy christians over Dragon Ages gay sex scences.  Condeming the game Zev and Lelianna deeming them the works of Satan.  Seriously?  I really can't tell the difference between Chrisitans and Muslims.  I'm not gonna give these nutjobs a link but you can google Dragon Age Outrage to see what I'm talking about.

I think my favorite was the quote "Another example of liberals forcing you to become homosexual"

Yeah, I'm fairly conservative Christian, my answer to that is the game does not force you into any relationships whatsoever, much less homosexual ones.  Is it available? Yes.  Do you HAVE to play it? No.  If someone is uncomfortable with that, just don't pick the options to romance a same-sex character. 

[illerianna]

I have a strong, strong dislike for fundamentalists. No, I am not liberal. Conservative, actually. But I do NOT like religion. At all. It's pretty childish, but it stems from a suicide by a (gay) friend of mine. I just keep in mind that these are the SAME idiots who think homosexuality can be "cured," and I frowny-face, get bad memories, sigh, facepalm, and leave.



They can believe, rage, and stomp their feet over whatever they wish, my only beef is that they really seem to enjoy screwing other people over. Oh yes, gay camps. That South Park episode? MUCH closer to the truth than you think. And... Ah, Proposition 8. "Live and let live" is my motto. Believe what you will, but a gay couple (who are VERY much in love) getting married is not the end of the world. :|

[Rrend]

Rape? I only vaguely recall a dialogue option that seemed to imply that was possible with Zevran... is that right? Why is this even an issue given the game has an ESRB rating?

[Legbiter]

lqutois wrote...

Pat robertson did indeed talk about it.  Though I know many evangelical christians who consider him a fool.  I don't consider myself an evangelical (being a member of United Church of Christ...probably the most liberal christian denomianation in existence) but I certainly consider him a fool.  After what he said about Hati I can almost make myself think he will end up in hell.

*sigh*

Robertson and his ilk use stuff like this to get attention.  If he had just said "those poor Haitians, I'm praying for them" then he wouldn't have generated a news story that will generate more interest in him and possibly result in more donations from lunatics.  He's nothing but a businessman who sells air to gullible people.  I would be shocked if the guy actually believes in God.

[BlastedLands]

FireDragon076 wrote...



I think my favorite was the quote "Another example of liberals forcing you to become homosexual"

wow. i need t-shirt with that written on it. seriously, that's an example why many religous people scare me.

edited to add that i'm thinking of these n***-style christians/muslim/whatever-believers, not to offend anyone.

Modifié par Haerja, 03 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[Peeker2009]

If there's one thing all fundamentalists have in common, whether religious or political, it's fear.

In most (maybe all) religious doctrine and political manifestos, there is an attempt to simplify life so that is becomes manageable or easily understood. There are many people who only truly feel content with life when their neighbours (or fellow citizens) share the same values as they do. In other words, the more people who believe in the same thing, the more "true" it is. There is safety and reassurance in numbers.

Fundamemtalist constructs will always be challenged by the big wide world, with all it's complexity and diversity, and their deepest beliefs may start to feel more like wishful thinking rather than universal "truth". For many people this is akin to stripping away their whole sense of self, and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent this.

I know quite a few Christians who simply must believe in the literal truth of everything they read in the Bible, and challenges to their interpretation are simply not welcome. When asking myself whether it's worth discussing the Bible with them, I always have an image of a house of cards in my mind, and ask myself if I am prepared for the consequences. I no longer am, because I have nothing concrete or simple to replace it with.

Back on topic, the more a game/movie/book resembles reality, in that an individual must navigate through temptations - i.e. sex, drugs and violence (though I wanted to say rock'n'roll hehe) - the more it challeneges a religious fundamentalist's simplified world view.

The same can be said for fundamentalist communists when dealing with the concept "freedom of the individual", or fundamentalist capitalists when asked about a governments "social responsibilites". The only difference perhaps is that these challenge the fundamentalists intellect whereas in religion it challenges the very soul.

So, I would just like to say that fundamentalists are not "idiots", they are just extremely fearful of a complex world that challenges their deepest faith, and do not have the inner resolve or strength to maintain their beliefs in the face of contrary opinions or evidence. So they either cut themselves off from the outside world, or fight back like their lives depend on it.

Games are just another battlefield.

*Edited for corrections

Modifié par Peeker2009, 04 février 2010 - 01:14 .

[FireDragon076]

As far as the freedom of speech is concerned. I think people need to remember that with rights come responsibility. I have the right to own a gun, but if I sit on my porch and point that gun at cars that pass by, I lose that right. I lose my rights if I act irresponsible,

Likewise I have the right to drive a car, a right I earned by getting my drivers license. If I drink a fifth of vodka and get behind the wheel of a car, I lose my right to drive.

I do support freedom of speech, but please masses, maybe you should learn to use it with some responsibility.


*Peeker that was an awesome post*

Modifié par FireDragon076, 04 février 2010 - 01:24 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Just looking at modern society lately, it is quite clear that no responsibility comes with freedom of speech these days.

Now I have become quite conservative over the years (too much exposure to liberal stupidity in my humble opinion), and I some unconventional Christian beliefs though I don't claim to be part of any particular church. That said I hate the sort of Muslim fanatics who our soldiers are facing, atheists, and I am no fan of Pat Robertson and other "Christians" who go a step too far.

Yet I haven't heard a word about Dragon Age "outrage" unless people go actively seeking out that outrage. And if you look hard enough you can usually found outrage over anything.
Personally I find the whole gay thing in DA or ME2 rather disgusting but evidently some people wanted it, and the only complaints I have are due to that development time being wasted for people like myself. And the expected negative press.

Now I have read things online from those with views pretty much opposite of mine that make me red in the face with anger. I don't think fear is related to fanaticism but the anger because you think "these morons want to ruin everything."

Modifié par ReconTeam, 04 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[RangerSG]

Peeker2009 wrote...

If there's one thing all fundamentalists have in common, whether religious or political, it's fear.

In most (maybe all) religious doctrine and political manifestos, there is an attempt to simplify life so that is becomes manageable or easily understood. There are many people who only truly feel content with life when their neighbours (or fellow citizens) share the same values as they do. In other words, the more people who believe in the same thing, the more "true" it is. There is safety and reassurance in numbers.

Fundamemtalist constructs will always be challenged by the big wide world, with all it's complexity and diversity, and their deepest beliefs may start to feel more like wishful thinking rather than universal "truth". For many people this is akin to stripping away their whole sense of self, and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent this.

I know quite a few Christians who simply must believe in the literal truth of everything they read in the Bible, and challenges to their interpretation are simply not welcome. When asking myself whether it's worth discussing the Bible with them, I always have an image of a house of cards in my mind, and ask myself if I am prepared for the consequences. I no longer am, because I have nothing concrete or simple to replace it with.

Back on topic, the more a game/movie/book resembles reality, in that an individual must navigate through temptations - i.e. sex, drugs and violence (though I wanted to say rock'n'roll hehe) - the more it challeneges a religious fundamentalist's simplified world view.

The same can be said for fundamentalist communists when dealing with the concept "freedom of the individual", or fundamentalist capitalists when asked about a governments "social responsibilites". The only difference perhaps is that these challenge the fundamentalists intellect whereas in religion it challenges the very soul.

So, I would just like to say that fundamentalists are not "idiots", they are just extremely fearful of a complex world that challenges their deepest faith, and do not have the inner resolve or strength to maintain their beliefs in the face of contrary opinions or evidence. So they either cut themselves off from the outside world, or fight back like their lives depend on it.

Games are just another battlefield.

*Edited for corrections

The problem with this argument is there is an underlying assumption that one has to be "afraid" of what one disagrees with. Quite frankly, I've always thought a great deal of projection goes into such a claim. Most people who claim Christians are "homophobes" are actually living in fear of a "V for Vendetta" style Theocracy that is not the aim of even 1% of so-called "Fundamentalist" Christians.

I have no personal problem with same-sex relationships being made in a game, because it's a GAME. It's not the real world. And the character I make is not real-world me, and may not share any of my own views. That's why it's called "Role Play." I'm not "afraid" of same-sex relationships. That does not remove my right to comment on whether or not they are constructive in society. But when those they disagree with "all" react out of fear, they are making a nice little box they can shove beliefs they do not take seriously away in. They are intentionally ridiculing the intellect and the rationality of those they disagree with.

And that is intellectual hypocrisy. If you want your own argument taken seriously, you must take seriously the intellectual arguments of those who disagree with you. If you insist on using Allinsky's Rules for Radicals and ridiculing those you disagree with, do not be surprised if your own arguments also come in for ridicule.

[Creature 1]

RangerSG wrote...
And that is intellectual hypocrisy. If you want your own argument taken seriously, you must take seriously the intellectual arguments of those who disagree with you. If you insist on using Allinsky's Rules for Radicals and ridiculing those you disagree with, do not be surprised if your own arguments also come in for ridicule.

Please, there is no intellectual argument against homosexuality from fundamentalist Christians.  Their views are based upon a handful of Bible verses, and not at all upon actual facts and research.  Peeker is right.  The foundation of their belief is a literal and prescriptive interpretation of the Bible.  Without this literal interpretation, there can be no moral argument against homosexuality.  Fundamentalists defend their opinions on homosexuality, the role of women, the theory of evolution, and other such topics with such vehemence because they fear that if they drop the ball on one of these and allow that the Bible may be interpreted nonliterally or nonprescriptively on these topics, they'll lose the whole.  If the Creation story can be thought to be figurative, perhaps the Crucifixion and Resurrection are figurative as well--and there goes your afterlife. 

<--Ex-Evangelical Christian.