Ce sujet est fermé
Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Edit about the predined character bit: The main PC in JE was far more predefined than Shepard ever was.<_
And yet amusingly enough you could be a gay male. Go figure.
Poor Jade Empire. Always being forgotten even by the BioWare devs themselves.*huggles*
Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 09 février 2010 - 03:20 .
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Spatchmo wrote...
Could you guys just not respond to RedSh1ft and and JamesMoriarity123? Red started the "Gay Shepard is a bad idea..." thread and there is nothing you can say that will change his mind, and James was his big (and mostly only) supporter in that thread. I can respect their opinions, but neither of them are particularly civil, and if you take their bait, this thread is just going to get locked.
On topic, I find the IGN interview both condescending and hypocritical, regarding gay Shepard. It would be a different case if female Shepard couldn't be a lesbian. I would like Mr. Muzyki to clarify how Shepard isn't as customizable as the Warden in Dragon Age, and also why female Shepard can be gay, but not male Shepard.
Actually there were a lot of supporters for the other threads. Read my posts, I haven't incited or insulted anyone. Just trying to dismiss our opinions because you can't come up with a counter argument is pretty sad.
FataliTensei wrote...
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Spatchmo wrote...
Could you guys just not respond to RedSh1ft and and JamesMoriarity123? Red started the "Gay Shepard is a bad idea..." thread and there is nothing you can say that will change his mind, and James was his big (and mostly only) supporter in that thread. I can respect their opinions, but neither of them are particularly civil, and if you take their bait, this thread is just going to get locked.
On topic, I find the IGN interview both condescending and hypocritical, regarding gay Shepard. It would be a different case if female Shepard couldn't be a lesbian. I would like Mr. Muzyki to clarify how Shepard isn't as customizable as the Warden in Dragon Age, and also why female Shepard can be gay, but not male Shepard.
Actually there were a lot of supporters for the other threads. Read my posts, I haven't incited or insulted anyone. Just trying to dismiss our opinions because you can't come up with a counter argument is pretty sad.
I believe you wee quite rude to ryuuichi quite a few times >_>
LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
Then make a POINT and be sensible stop falling back on "he's Iconic" "he's predetermined" because it is rubbish that we have already covered as a falsehood.
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
DoctorOctagonapus wrote...
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Jimmy Fury wrote...
Sorry, completely distracted by heroes.
Alright Moriarty let's have a nice civil discussion on a concept of potential middle ground for both sides.
Hendel from one of the novels is a gay biotic marine. If he was included in DLC, Exp., or ME3 then it would not involve any change to any established character. This morning I said I agree with you that changing characters at this stage would be a lousy idea.
Bringing in a new character though, especially one who is an already established part of the universe (and could boost sales of the book by encouraging people to buy that to find out the backstory), is another matter entirely.
Or. What about an Expansion bridging ME2 and ME3 and introducing new characters who can be squad members or contacts in ME3. This would not be a new concept for BioWare as Awakening is bridging DAO and DAO2 and ME:Galaxy introduced Jacob and Miranda.
This Expansion could also function to lay the ground work for a new series of games that follows ME since we all agree that the universe should not die after Shep's story is over.
Also note that this is no way goes against any possible interpretation of Muzyka's statement. Even if you take it as saying no m/m in ME, he clearly states that anything is possible in future games.
If they released a gay character as DLC like Zaeed, and it in NO WAY affected the development and/or outcome of the already established storyline/characters and in ME3 it wasn't present and no reference was made to it if you didn't buy it, then dude, for my money, they could make the ****er tomorrow. Cos I simply wouldn't buy it, and it's no sweat.
As I have previously stated many times, I have nothing against a gay character. One of my favourite fictional characters is Louis from the John Connolly novels. A 6ft tall, sharp dressing bacl assassin, who just happends to be a gay man.
As we're keeping this civil, allow me to try again to represent my position. For me and most ME gamers, Shepherd is something of a gaming icon, enough to rival Gordon Freeman or JC Denton. As Muzyka said, ME is about taking us through Shepherd life, allowing us to tailor parts, but still preserving the central portion of his life. Now if a gay romance had been present since ME1, well there wouldn't be any need for this discussion and I wouldn't oppose it. I mean I played DA through twice and I didn't even REALISE there was a gay option. But the fact is ME isnt DA, Shepherd has a backstory, and an image. Through 2 games he's been entirely hetero, dev's even compared him to the main man, James Tiberius Kirk.
Obviously I understand the desire for a gay man to want to play a gay man in-game, but it's just a little late for all that. I mean the way the thread is written, people say it like it's their right, but as Muzyka says, Shepherd is more defined that any other Bioware PC, he has set attributes. FemShep is included, but thats because there's roughly a 50/50 ratio of men and women in the world, lol. The same cannot be said for Homosexuals.
I disagree that Shepard is so pre-defined. for one thing, his entire past up to that point is up to the player. Most of his personality is as well. Shepard can a virtuous soldier or a ruthless douchebag. He can be a pacifist, or a war mongerer. A genocidist, or a humanist. When someone brings up Shepard, whoever comes to your mind may be totally different than what comes to mine. The face, gender, strategies, fighting tactics, and attitudes could be completely changed.
His story is more defined than any other Bioware game however. You cannot choose everything about Shepherd.
You can't choose his race, or at this point his sexual orientation.
You can't choose not to be an Alliance soldier, you can't choose not defeat Saren, you can't even choose exactly what the guy says.
The pre-definition is an issue, but it isnt the main one. The lynchpin of the argument is that they had the OPTION to include it, yet they didn't. Twice. That makes him pre-defined in of itself, as clearly they are preserving his sexual orientation by removing the option to be gay. As previously stated, it isn't the same as allowing you to be female. Half the human race is female. A claim the homosexual community cannot make.
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*
*huggles* 
Modifié par Ryuuichi009, 09 février 2010 - 04:09 .
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
How did you do this?BrandNewMan wrote...
Hey Ryuuichi, did you ever see this pic I uploaded of Kaidan and maleshep? (not safe for heteros)
i50.tinypic.com/2ztf3mg.png
FataliTensei wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
FataliTensei wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
DoctorOctagonapus wrote...
I agree that it's a little late, this ship has probably sailed, and we'll probably not ever see a gay John Shepard. Really I'm just hoping they'll consider it for Sean Jepard or whoever the next big BioWare mascot is.
That would be totally cool in my book. I would be completely ok if Sean Shepard has a ****** option.
Now you're just contradicting yourself...
Wouldn't expect you to comprehend what I've been saying this whole time.
I'm not sure you understand what you're saying....are you a troll? really, just be honest with us
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
What is there to argue? Those are facts.JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
If you don't want to look at the pre-determined angle, lets take it from a dev decision angle. 2 games, 2 option to implement. Denied both times.
So whats the counter argument here?
Ryuuichi009 wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Edit about the predined character bit: The main PC in JE was far more predefined than Shepard ever was.<_
And yet amusingly enough you could be a gay male. Go figure.
Poor Jade Empire. Always being forgotten even by the BioWare devs themselves.
Horrible argument. The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes with several different disciplines, I own the game. Shepard is an alliance n7 hetero marine.
And the hero from Jade Empire wasn't Master LI's top student irregardless of anything else? You're basically arguing that having different fighting styles makes them different from Shep who can be an Adept, Infilitrator, Solider, etc? Really?
DoctorOctagonapus wrote...
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
DoctorOctagonapus wrote...
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Jimmy Fury wrote...
Sorry, completely distracted by heroes.
Alright Moriarty let's have a nice civil discussion on a concept of potential middle ground for both sides.
Hendel from one of the novels is a gay biotic marine. If he was included in DLC, Exp., or ME3 then it would not involve any change to any established character. This morning I said I agree with you that changing characters at this stage would be a lousy idea.
Bringing in a new character though, especially one who is an already established part of the universe (and could boost sales of the book by encouraging people to buy that to find out the backstory), is another matter entirely.
Or. What about an Expansion bridging ME2 and ME3 and introducing new characters who can be squad members or contacts in ME3. This would not be a new concept for BioWare as Awakening is bridging DAO and DAO2 and ME:Galaxy introduced Jacob and Miranda.
This Expansion could also function to lay the ground work for a new series of games that follows ME since we all agree that the universe should not die after Shep's story is over.
Also note that this is no way goes against any possible interpretation of Muzyka's statement. Even if you take it as saying no m/m in ME, he clearly states that anything is possible in future games.
If they released a gay character as DLC like Zaeed, and it in NO WAY affected the development and/or outcome of the already established storyline/characters and in ME3 it wasn't present and no reference was made to it if you didn't buy it, then dude, for my money, they could make the ****er tomorrow. Cos I simply wouldn't buy it, and it's no sweat.
As I have previously stated many times, I have nothing against a gay character. One of my favourite fictional characters is Louis from the John Connolly novels. A 6ft tall, sharp dressing bacl assassin, who just happends to be a gay man.
As we're keeping this civil, allow me to try again to represent my position. For me and most ME gamers, Shepherd is something of a gaming icon, enough to rival Gordon Freeman or JC Denton. As Muzyka said, ME is about taking us through Shepherd life, allowing us to tailor parts, but still preserving the central portion of his life. Now if a gay romance had been present since ME1, well there wouldn't be any need for this discussion and I wouldn't oppose it. I mean I played DA through twice and I didn't even REALISE there was a gay option. But the fact is ME isnt DA, Shepherd has a backstory, and an image. Through 2 games he's been entirely hetero, dev's even compared him to the main man, James Tiberius Kirk.
Obviously I understand the desire for a gay man to want to play a gay man in-game, but it's just a little late for all that. I mean the way the thread is written, people say it like it's their right, but as Muzyka says, Shepherd is more defined that any other Bioware PC, he has set attributes. FemShep is included, but thats because there's roughly a 50/50 ratio of men and women in the world, lol. The same cannot be said for Homosexuals.
I disagree that Shepard is so pre-defined. for one thing, his entire past up to that point is up to the player. Most of his personality is as well. Shepard can a virtuous soldier or a ruthless douchebag. He can be a pacifist, or a war mongerer. A genocidist, or a humanist. When someone brings up Shepard, whoever comes to your mind may be totally different than what comes to mine. The face, gender, strategies, fighting tactics, and attitudes could be completely changed.
His story is more defined than any other Bioware game however. You cannot choose everything about Shepherd.
You can't choose his race, or at this point his sexual orientation.
You can't choose not to be an Alliance soldier, you can't choose not defeat Saren, you can't even choose exactly what the guy says.
The pre-definition is an issue, but it isnt the main one. The lynchpin of the argument is that they had the OPTION to include it, yet they didn't. Twice. That makes him pre-defined in of itself, as clearly they are preserving his sexual orientation by removing the option to be gay. As previously stated, it isn't the same as allowing you to be female. Half the human race is female. A claim the homosexual community cannot make.
Well alot of that is present in most BioWare games. Take DA. You can change your past and certain moral decisions, but you're always a Grey Warden, you're always fighting the darkspawn, and you're always towing that poisonous **** Morrigan. Really, aside from the Origin story and the occasional shoehorned "Hello you are race X and class Y" the conversations were pretty rigid. In fact I'd wager that the possible Wardens are actually less or about equal with the possible Shepards.
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
Modifié par Ninja Mage, 09 février 2010 - 03:27 .
BrandNewMan wrote...
Hey Ryuuichi, did you ever see this pic I uploaded of Kaidan and maleshep? (not safe for heteros)
i50.tinypic.com/2ztf3mg.png
LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
OMNISEXUAL. My Shepard romanced Liara and according to Casey Hudson Liara, as an asari, is not a female. So therefore my Shepard could romance a man down the line
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*
ReDSH1FT wrote...
Ryuuichi009 wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Edit about the predined character bit: The main PC in JE was far more predefined than Shepard ever was.<_
And yet amusingly enough you could be a gay male. Go figure.
Poor Jade Empire. Always being forgotten even by the BioWare devs themselves.
Horrible argument. The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes with several different disciplines, I own the game. Shepard is an alliance n7 hetero marine.
And the hero from Jade Empire wasn't Master LI's top student irregardless of anything else? You're basically arguing that having different fighting styles makes them different from Shep who can be an Adept, Infilitrator, Solider, etc? Really?
No, look at the characters. Christ how blind are you? The chosen one is all preppy, then you got the beast looking dude, and the monk looking guy. Mass Effect has an iconic model for Shepard in commercials, box art, products, etc.
Drop the JE argument, you're failing.
Nice try trying to hide behind that. "He's ICONIC!" to justify that. Default Shep is another can of worms. You're arguing why anyone Shep can't have a gay option. Not why Default Sheploo can't.
I don't think there will ever be any agreements between the two sides, or one side is convinced by the other. So the same argument will keep going and looping. Obviously we are not going to give up asking for gay romance and they might or might not get tired and quit. I think it's a good idea to just ignore their posts.LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
Then make a POINT and be sensible stop falling back on "he's Iconic" "he's predetermined" because it is rubbish that we have already covered as a falsehood.
Check out the n7 hetero marine in action:ReDSH1FT wrote...
Horrible argument. The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes with several different disciplines, I own the game. Shepard is an alliance n7 hetero marine.
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
FataliTensei wrote...
JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Spatchmo wrote...
Could you guys just not respond to RedSh1ft and and JamesMoriarity123? Red started the "Gay Shepard is a bad idea..." thread and there is nothing you can say that will change his mind, and James was his big (and mostly only) supporter in that thread. I can respect their opinions, but neither of them are particularly civil, and if you take their bait, this thread is just going to get locked.
On topic, I find the IGN interview both condescending and hypocritical, regarding gay Shepard. It would be a different case if female Shepard couldn't be a lesbian. I would like Mr. Muzyki to clarify how Shepard isn't as customizable as the Warden in Dragon Age, and also why female Shepard can be gay, but not male Shepard.
Actually there were a lot of supporters for the other threads. Read my posts, I haven't incited or insulted anyone. Just trying to dismiss our opinions because you can't come up with a counter argument is pretty sad.
I believe you wee quite rude to ryuuichi quite a few times >_>
Asking her what her fascination in m/m romance is as a woman? How is that insulting? She didn't respond so I drew my own conclusions. Fair play.
ReDSH1FT wrote...
LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
ReDSH1FT wrote...
@doctoroctogonopus
Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?
Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.
OMNISEXUAL. My Shepard romanced Liara and according to Casey Hudson Liara, as an asari, is not a female. So therefore my Shepard could romance a man down the line
Liara is a chick, and no, your fantasy of a ****** Shepard will never come true. I would pay to watch you guys cry when ME3 comes out.
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