3059 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesMoriarty123]

KateKane wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

If you don't want to look at the pre-determined angle, lets take it from a dev decision angle. 2 games, 2 option to implement. Denied both times.

So whats the counter argument here?

What is there to argue? Those are facts.
What we're saying is that they should not have denied us the option, and we'd like to see it in the future.

Whether they should or should not have denied you the option in ME1 is moot. They did. And it's only Bioware that even make a concession for the gay community with other games.
The fact that it wasn't present means that to suddenly implement would damage the experience for a lot of people.

[Jimmy Fury]

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Then you disagree with Dr. Muzyka, the guy who ****ing made the character.  I think I'll trust his opinion over yours boy.
Seriously, you just disagreed with the co-president on the character he helped create.  Do you realize how insane that sounds?

Actually Dr. Ray had nothing to do with the creation of Shepard as a character. That was Drew, Casey, and Preston the designers and writer.
Note: Not saying anything about what Dr. Ray said. Just correcting this error. Dr. Ray is in charge of the company not the individual character designs of each game.

But yes, some of us disagree with him. Commenters on the IGN thread quickly questioned why he didn't correct the error by the interviewer about an "abortion mission", They questioned the purpose of his continually mentioning every other BioWare game on the market in questions that were specifically about ME, and I have personally detailed the numbers that prove Shepard is more customizable than the Warden.

I will provide them again.
Shepard: 9 Pos. Combinations of History/Career. 6 Possible Combat classes.= 54 Possible Shepards.
Warden: 7 Pos. Combinations of Origin/Species. 3 Possible Combat classes = 21 Possible Wardens.

Ignore for a moment Dr. Muzyka's title and position within the company and look at it objectively. The numbers simply don't lie. The only difference is some incidental facial features and the fact that you play out the origin mission instead of simply clicking the box. Once you reach Ostagar the game is exactly the same no matter what origin or race you chose.

Now, back to my discussion with Moriarty, Again I apologize. Heroes Distraction.

You make valid points. In fact, in that perspective I even agree with several of them. I may still contend that Shepard's sexuality is in no way set-in-stone, but I can understand your reluctance to see an Iconic character potentially altered. In fact I'll go one better and say that I would only want Shepard to be given a m/m option if it was approached in a way that in no way alters Shepard's history or personality.
If he was suddenly not flirting with half the women in the universe then yes, it would suck to make that change. Then again I flirt with women all the time so perhaps I'm a biased source on the idea of flirtation not equalling ravenous sexual desire...
Anyway moving on.
So we can agree that it would be fine for a future title set in the ME universe to have a main character whose sexuallity is up to the player?
If so then fantastic.

[JamesMoriarty123]

DoctorOctagonapus wrote...

What if my Shepard hasn't had sex with anybody yet? Could you offer any other explanation to why he has all that fine ass under his command and doesn't tap any of it?

Because he just wasn't into them? Abstinance or rejction does not signify homosexuality.

[ReDSH1FT]

Ninja Mage wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

@doctoroctogonopus

Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?

Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.

Muzkya was wrong, in my opinion, because a gay romance isn't really a pre-determined variable. Any type of romance is always going to be a CHOICE. Thats why fem shep can be a lesbian, and why there are 3 different romance options. Story Elements are categorized under pre-defined choices, dialogue options and therefore romance options have never been pre-defined in a bioware game

Sexuality is a huge factor of characters.  Have you taken a literature class?

Icons have to be set in their ways.  Shepard has been compared by BioWare to ladies man James Kirk.  Kirk was known for a few things.  Romancing chicks and kicking ass.

There was NO ambiguity.  Neither is there for Shepard.  It's party of his quality, his characteristic.

[SorenTrigg]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

On the flipside to rejecting the pre-defined theory, if anyone can actually give me a vaild reason why it is an absolute necessity to have a m/m romance I'd be overjoyed. I mean why does there HAVE to be an option, given the extremely small percentage of gay people in the playerbase?

Well, part of the reason (in my mind), is fairness. Females get f/f romance in both games (Liara, and Chambers).
I don't even *play* a male, but still, I wish they would have implimented it.
Of course, I wish they had more f/f options in there too. No Tali made me sad.
We don't *have* to have the option. We don't *have* to have the option for any romance. It would just be nice.

[Akrim_Drak]

Arik7 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Horrible argument.  The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes with several different disciplines, I own the game.  Shepard is an alliance n7 hetero marine.

Check out the n7 hetero marine in action:

They didn't kiss! They're still heterosexuals! Silly.

[FataliTensei]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

@doctoroctogonopus

Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?

Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.

OMNISEXUAL. My Shepard romanced Liara and according to Casey Hudson Liara, as an asari, is not a female. So therefore my Shepard could romance a man down the line

Liara is a chick, and no, your fantasy of a ****** Shepard will never come true.  I would pay to watch you guys cry when ME3 comes out.

Why would we cry over that, disapointment is what most of us would feel, the way you reac to hsi very thread leads me to believ you would be the one to have a strong reaction if the opposite came true

[LoveAsThouWilt]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

@doctoroctogonopus

Can you choose not to defeat Saren? Can you choose a different starship? How about the collectors, can you choose not to do the suicide mission?

Predefinition. Shepard also has traits that are his own. He was an alliance n7 marine in EVERYONE'S game. He served under Anderson, etc. He's also hetero.

OMNISEXUAL. My Shepard romanced Liara and according to Casey Hudson Liara, as an asari, is not a female. So therefore my Shepard could romance a man down the line

Liara is a chick, and no, your fantasy of a ****** Shepard will never come true.  I would pay to watch you guys cry when ME3 comes out.

Um cry? Bit absurd. ME3 comes out I will be just as excited as I
was for ME2. I'll still be buying it, and be excited. Having or not
having M/M romance won't change that.

[BrandNewMan]

Arik7 wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...



Hey Ryuuichi, did you ever see this pic I uploaded of Kaidan and maleshep? (not safe for heteros)



i50.tinypic.com/2ztf3mg.png

How did you do this?

A lot of working with the command console. It's an in-game screen shot, so no photoshop was used. I took another one, but it's a tad more revealing on the backside.



Also, that's Shepard's apartment from Pinnacle Station, since I thought it was fitting. I could do the same for femshep and Ashley, but it'd be pretty difficult to get things conveniently covered.

[DoctorOctagonapus]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

DoctorOctagonapus wrote...

What if my Shepard hasn't had sex with anybody yet? Could you offer any other explanation to why he has all that fine ass under his command and doesn't tap any of it?

Because he just wasn't into them? Abstinance or rejction does not signify homosexuality.

Psh. Catholics tell you that?

[Arik7]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Horrible argument.  The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes with several different disciplines, I own the game.  Shepard is an alliance n7 hetero marine.

Check out the n7 hetero marine in action:

They didn't kiss! They're still heterosexuals! Silly.

Come on, Kaidan!.....  Sounds like it's been a while for Shepard...lol

Modifié par Arik7, 09 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[Akrim_Drak]

BrandNewMan wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

Hey Ryuuichi, did you ever see this pic I uploaded of Kaidan and maleshep? (not safe for heteros)

i50.tinypic.com/2ztf3mg.png

How did you do this?

A lot of working with the command console. It's an in-game screen shot, so no photoshop was used. I took another one, but it's a tad more revealing on the backside.

Also, that's Shepard's apartment from Pinnacle Station, since I thought it was fitting. I could do the same for femshep and Ashley, but it'd be pretty difficult to get things conveniently covered.

I loved that apartment, and you should PM the other one. I'm curious as to just how much they modeled >.> Call me pathetic if you will.

[Jimmy Fury]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

DoctorOctagonapus wrote...

What if my Shepard hasn't had sex with anybody yet? Could you offer any other explanation to why he has all that fine ass under his command and doesn't tap any of it?

Because he just wasn't into them? Abstinance or rejction does not signify homosexuality.

Conversely abstinance and rejection do not equal heterosexuality either. Just because Shepard's squad members are all heterosexual, thus preventing him from romancing them, does not mean he is. Just putting that out there.

[FataliTensei]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Then you disagree with Dr. Muzyka, the guy who ****ing made the character.  I think I'll trust his opinion over yours boy.
Seriously, you just disagreed with the co-president on the character he helped create.  Do you realize how insane that sounds?

Actually Dr. Ray had nothing to do with the creation of Shepard as a character. That was Drew, Casey, and Preston the designers and writer.
Note: Not saying anything about what Dr. Ray said. Just correcting this error. Dr. Ray is in charge of the company not the individual character designs of each game.

But yes, some of us disagree with him. Commenters on the IGN thread quickly questioned why he didn't correct the error by the interviewer about an "abortion mission", They questioned the purpose of his continually mentioning every other BioWare game on the market in questions that were specifically about ME, and I have personally detailed the numbers that prove Shepard is more customizable than the Warden.

I will provide them again.
Shepard: 9 Pos. Combinations of History/Career. 6 Possible Combat classes.= 54 Possible Shepards.
Warden: 7 Pos. Combinations of Origin/Species. 3 Possible Combat classes = 21 Possible Wardens.

Ignore for a moment Dr. Muzyka's title and position within the company and look at it objectively. The numbers simply don't lie. The only difference is some incidental facial features and the fact that you play out the origin mission instead of simply clicking the box. Once you reach Ostagar the game is exactly the same no matter what origin or race you chose.

Now, back to my discussion with Moriarty, Again I apologize. Heroes Distraction.

You make valid points. In fact, in that perspective I even agree with several of them. I may still contend that Shepard's sexuality is in no way set-in-stone, but I can understand your reluctance to see an Iconic character potentially altered. In fact I'll go one better and say that I would only want Shepard to be given a m/m option if it was approached in a way that in no way alters Shepard's history or personality.
If he was suddenly not flirting with half the women in the universe then yes, it would suck to make that change. Then again I flirt with women all the time so perhaps I'm a biased source on the idea of flirtation not equalling ravenous sexual desire...
Anyway moving on.
So we can agree that it would be fine for a future title set in the ME universe to have a main character whose sexuallity is up to the player?
If so then fantastic.

Thee's always the "If it's you, it's okay" situation - http://tvtropes.org/...IfItsYouItsOkay

totally would be fine with that, it'd make the relationship even more special

[JamesMoriarty123]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Then you disagree with Dr. Muzyka, the guy who ****ing made the character.  I think I'll trust his opinion over yours boy.
Seriously, you just disagreed with the co-president on the character he helped create.  Do you realize how insane that sounds?

Actually Dr. Ray had nothing to do with the creation of Shepard as a character. That was Drew, Casey, and Preston the designers and writer.
Note: Not saying anything about what Dr. Ray said. Just correcting this error. Dr. Ray is in charge of the company not the individual character designs of each game.

But yes, some of us disagree with him. Commenters on the IGN thread quickly questioned why he didn't correct the error by the interviewer about an "abortion mission", They questioned the purpose of his continually mentioning every other BioWare game on the market in questions that were specifically about ME, and I have personally detailed the numbers that prove Shepard is more customizable than the Warden.

I will provide them again.
Shepard: 9 Pos. Combinations of History/Career. 6 Possible Combat classes.= 54 Possible Shepards.
Warden: 7 Pos. Combinations of Origin/Species. 3 Possible Combat classes = 21 Possible Wardens.

Ignore for a moment Dr. Muzyka's title and position within the company and look at it objectively. The numbers simply don't lie. The only difference is some incidental facial features and the fact that you play out the origin mission instead of simply clicking the box. Once you reach Ostagar the game is exactly the same no matter what origin or race you chose.

Now, back to my discussion with Moriarty, Again I apologize. Heroes Distraction.

You make valid points. In fact, in that perspective I even agree with several of them. I may still contend that Shepard's sexuality is in no way set-in-stone, but I can understand your reluctance to see an Iconic character potentially altered. In fact I'll go one better and say that I would only want Shepard to be given a m/m option if it was approached in a way that in no way alters Shepard's history or personality.
If he was suddenly not flirting with half the women in the universe then yes, it would suck to make that change. Then again I flirt with women all the time so perhaps I'm a biased source on the idea of flirtation not equalling ravenous sexual desire...
Anyway moving on.
So we can agree that it would be fine for a future title set in the ME universe to have a main character whose sexuallity is up to the player?
If so then fantastic.

If an option was present from the very start, Sexual Orientation = Hetero/******, then I wouldn't be against that. It surely isn't that hard to understand that as a straight man I don't want my Shepherds sexuality brought into question. And yes, if a gay man started flirting with me in real life I'd feel pretty uncomfortable too.

It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.

[Ninja Mage]

I'd want to see a super X rated version of that BrandNewMan...with kaiden on bottom lol

[Akrim_Drak]

FataliTensei wrote...

Thee's always the "If it's you, it's okay" situation - http://tvtropes.org/...IfItsYouItsOkay

totally would be fine with that, it'd make the relationship even more special

They did it with Garrus, why not do it again. That one was quite a stretch as it is...

[JamesMoriarty123]

Lol, it's sad that you guys create and save and obsess over gay pics of computer characters. Argue your poin sure, I get that, but all this gushing and obsession, it's just sad as hell.

[Arik7]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, it's sad that you guys create and save and obsess over gay pics of computer characters. Argue your poin sure, I get that, but all this gushing and obsession, it's just sad as hell.

Not as sad as your obsession with gay threads. 

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
Then you disagree with Dr. Muzyka, the guy who ****ing made the character.  I think I'll trust his opinion over yours boy.
Seriously, you just disagreed with the co-president on the character he helped create.  Do you realize how insane that sounds?

Actually Dr. Ray had nothing to do with the creation of Shepard as a character. That was Drew, Casey, and Preston the designers and writer.
Note: Not saying anything about what Dr. Ray said. Just correcting this error. Dr. Ray is in charge of the company not the individual character designs of each game.

But yes, some of us disagree with him. Commenters on the IGN thread quickly questioned why he didn't correct the error by the interviewer about an "abortion mission", They questioned the purpose of his continually mentioning every other BioWare game on the market in questions that were specifically about ME, and I have personally detailed the numbers that prove Shepard is more customizable than the Warden.

I will provide them again.
Shepard: 9 Pos. Combinations of History/Career. 6 Possible Combat classes.= 54 Possible Shepards.
Warden: 7 Pos. Combinations of Origin/Species. 3 Possible Combat classes = 21 Possible Wardens.

Ignore for a moment Dr. Muzyka's title and position within the company and look at it objectively. The numbers simply don't lie. The only difference is some incidental facial features and the fact that you play out the origin mission instead of simply clicking the box. Once you reach Ostagar the game is exactly the same no matter what origin or race you chose.

Now, back to my discussion with Moriarty, Again I apologize. Heroes Distraction.

You make valid points. In fact, in that perspective I even agree with several of them. I may still contend that Shepard's sexuality is in no way set-in-stone, but I can understand your reluctance to see an Iconic character potentially altered. In fact I'll go one better and say that I would only want Shepard to be given a m/m option if it was approached in a way that in no way alters Shepard's history or personality.
If he was suddenly not flirting with half the women in the universe then yes, it would suck to make that change. Then again I flirt with women all the time so perhaps I'm a biased source on the idea of flirtation not equalling ravenous sexual desire...
Anyway moving on.
So we can agree that it would be fine for a future title set in the ME universe to have a main character whose sexuallity is up to the player?
If so then fantastic.

If an option was present from the very start, Sexual Orientation = Hetero/******, then I wouldn't be against that. It surely isn't that hard to understand that as a straight man I don't want my Shepherds sexuality brought into question. And yes, if a gay man started flirting with me in real life I'd feel pretty uncomfortable too.

It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.

not necessarly, you haven't had any male team mates that were bi or gay, so the option has never been explored, implmenting it in the last game wouldn't really be off continuity, since there hasn't been an opportunity for m/m romance since no options were available in the last 2 games.

[DoctorOctagonapus]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, it's sad that you guys create and save and obsess over gay pics of computer characters. Argue your poin sure, I get that, but all this gushing and obsession, it's just sad as hell.

I actually second that. This is starting to seem like one of those fan-run message boards that focuses entirely on all the possible love-combinations of the characters.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Arik7 wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, it's sad that you guys create and save and obsess over gay pics of computer characters. Argue your poin sure, I get that, but all this gushing and obsession, it's just sad as hell.

Not as sad as your obsession with gay threads. 

Oh it's way sadder. Creating the gay content then sharing it amongst yourselves to obsess over...that's just something else man.