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Gay Shepard Part 2


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#2826
FataliTensei

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JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

ctsaxon1983 wrote...

The damn series is almost over. Shepard has been Heterosexual since the beginning. Is a male Shepard all of a sudden gonna be a gay? I doubt it. Stop the damn whining.


Simple statement, but basically sums up how it is going to and how it should turn out.
No option first 2 games, leave it out for the 3rd.



 It's not that big of a deal. Kaiden actually comes and hugs you and says he loves you in the unmodded game. So please give it a rest

 And @ Ryuuichi...I'd want their personality to be fiesty yet caring


I've hugged lots of my male friends. Doesn't mean I'm all of  a sudden Bi. Gay guys don't get brotherly camaradarie it seems...they just see an excuse to infer gayness.

Seeing an excuse to infer gayness from 2 guys being close, that's actually annoying to me even though I am gay >_<

I ge brotherly camaraderie,  have tons of straight guy friends, we have hugged before and I've felt nothing when we do, mind you they don't know about me, because it seems that straight men infer that gay men are attracted to every male they meet

#2827
FataliTensei

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Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.


I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means, to us, it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?

edit: added a qualifer to denote my personal opinion.

Default off isa great idea, that way ppl like red andjames can just pop the game in, ignore the setting and start playin

#2828
LoveAsThouWilt

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Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

If the hetero nature of MaleShep was so pre-defined, then wouldn't my MaleShep have ended up with one of the two women who were romance options in ME1? Or, failing that, I'm sure there would have been some in-game reference to him being a ladies' man. Too bad there was no such thing.

I can somewhat understand not wanting to have your image of your character changed, but that goes for me, too. My MaleShep remains gay, and I remain disappointed that it seems Bioware will not be providing romance options for him due to some claim that he is pre-defined as strictly hetero (though there is no solid evidence in game for this). IMO, anyone who looked at Kaiden and MaleShep in ME1 and didn't see the very clear bromance had some serous blinders on.

I would like to see some m/m romance options - not sex, but romance - for ME3, or ME1/2 DLC. I like to see all my character's romance options open. Something as subtle to pursue as the relationship with Sky in JE would be great, but I wouldn't say no to a more aggressive love interest either. If I can who I pursue for romance, why shouldn't it include m/m once in a while? (Not including f/f, because apparently it's not that difficult to get that included.)


The bromance, the bromance, the bromance!!! Why don't other people what I see in it as well? An unspoken affection for one another. Its romantic. I want it concluded, not starved!

#2829
JamesMoriarty123

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Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.


I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?


The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue. :(

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 09 février 2010 - 04:13 .


#2830
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*

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Ryuuichi009 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Edit about the predined character bit: The main PC in JE was far more predefined than Shepard ever was.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]You
couldn't even customize their clothing or face. So yeah that argument
can burn in a fire. You age, race, height was set after you picked a
certain body for yourself (and all the bodies were of asian orientation
and your race and age were equal across the board), our gender was set
and you had very few dialogue options or choices if any character EVER
was predefined in BioWare history it was the main PC in Jade Empire.

And yet amusingly enough you could be a gay male. Go figure. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png[/smilie]

Poor Jade Empire. Always being forgotten even by the BioWare devs themselves. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie] *huggles*


Horrible
argument.  The main character in JE can be a wide range of archetypes
with several different disciplines, I own the game.  Shepard is an
alliance n7 hetero marine.


And the hero from Jade
Empire wasn't Master LI's top student irregardless of anything
else? You're basically arguing that having different fighting styles
makes them different from Shep who can be an Adept, Infilitrator,
Solider, etc? Really? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]


No,
look at the characters.  Christ how blind are you?  The chosen one is
all preppy, then you got the beast looking dude, and the monk looking
guy.  Mass Effect has an iconic model for Shepard in commercials, box
art, products, etc.

Drop the JE argument, you're failing.


Ha. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]
Nice try trying to hide behind that. "He's ICONIC!" to justify that.
Default Shep is another can of worms. You're arguing why anyone Shep
can't have a gay option. Not why Default Sheploo can't.

But you obviously don't want to actually read into my arguments and want to hide behind your "Default Sheploo!" shield. 

I'm pretty sure Furious Ming was seen all over the box art as well. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]


Yay for my whole valid argument being completely ignored. :wizard:

Modifié par Ryuuichi009, 09 février 2010 - 04:13 .


#2831
Akrim_Drak

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Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Yay for my whole valid argument being completely ignored. :wizard:



Stupid wizard...

Image IPB

#2832
Temper_Graniteskul

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LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

If the hetero nature of MaleShep was so pre-defined, then wouldn't my MaleShep have ended up with one of the two women who were romance options in ME1? Or, failing that, I'm sure there would have been some in-game reference to him being a ladies' man. Too bad there was no such thing.

I can somewhat understand not wanting to have your image of your character changed, but that goes for me, too. My MaleShep remains gay, and I remain disappointed that it seems Bioware will not be providing romance options for him due to some claim that he is pre-defined as strictly hetero (though there is no solid evidence in game for this). IMO, anyone who looked at Kaiden and MaleShep in ME1 and didn't see the very clear bromance had some serous blinders on.

I would like to see some m/m romance options - not sex, but romance - for ME3, or ME1/2 DLC. I like to see all my character's romance options open. Something as subtle to pursue as the relationship with Sky in JE would be great, but I wouldn't say no to a more aggressive love interest either. If I can who I pursue for romance, why shouldn't it include m/m once in a while? (Not including f/f, because apparently it's not that difficult to get that included.)


The bromance, the bromance, the bromance!!! Why don't other people what I see in it as well? An unspoken affection for one another. Its romantic. I want it concluded, not starved!

Fair enough. I should have said 'a' bromance, rather than 'the' bromance. As far as my MaleShep was concerned, Alenko was and is the only man for him.<3

#2833
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*

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Akrim_Drak wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Yay for my whole valid argument being completely ignored. :wizard:



Stupid wizard...

Image IPB




That's cute. ^_^ Where did you get it from? 

#2834
LoveAsThouWilt

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Akrim_Drak wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...
Yay for my whole valid argument being completely ignored. :wizard:



Stupid wizard...

Image IPB




Cause he turned the other smiley into a dragon or because he didn't turn him into Kaidan or M Commander Shepard?

#2835
LoveAsThouWilt

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Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

If the hetero nature of MaleShep was so pre-defined, then wouldn't my MaleShep have ended up with one of the two women who were romance options in ME1? Or, failing that, I'm sure there would have been some in-game reference to him being a ladies' man. Too bad there was no such thing.

I can somewhat understand not wanting to have your image of your character changed, but that goes for me, too. My MaleShep remains gay, and I remain disappointed that it seems Bioware will not be providing romance options for him due to some claim that he is pre-defined as strictly hetero (though there is no solid evidence in game for this). IMO, anyone who looked at Kaiden and MaleShep in ME1 and didn't see the very clear bromance had some serous blinders on.

I would like to see some m/m romance options - not sex, but romance - for ME3, or ME1/2 DLC. I like to see all my character's romance options open. Something as subtle to pursue as the relationship with Sky in JE would be great, but I wouldn't say no to a more aggressive love interest either. If I can who I pursue for romance, why shouldn't it include m/m once in a while? (Not including f/f, because apparently it's not that difficult to get that included.)


The bromance, the bromance, the bromance!!! Why don't other people what I see in it as well? An unspoken affection for one another. Its romantic. I want it concluded, not starved!

Fair enough. I should have said 'a' bromance, rather than 'the' bromance. As far as my MaleShep was concerned, Alenko was and is the only man for him.<3


Agree agree agree.

#2836
Akrim_Drak

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No idea ._. I'm just tired! And Ryu I've had that for years, no idea where it came from.

#2837
JamesMoriarty123

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I thought Bromance meant brotherly love? Or am I missing something here?

#2838
darkshadow136

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Jackal904 wrote...

NO. Shepard is not a fruit.


Couldn't have said it better, agreed. No Shepard is not a fruit, and has no place in this game. Hell I disliked that they even slightly incorporating that type of thing in DAO with Zeveren. Also before political peeps jump on my coment. I'm completly non-political I just disagree with the lifestyle choice both personally and within my beliefs.

#2839
LoveAsThouWilt

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JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I thought Bromance meant brotherly love? Or am I missing something here?


Brotherly love can lead to "If its you its okay"

#2840
FataliTensei

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JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.


I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?


The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue. :(

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.



See now it bugs me that a bad-ass has to be straight, gay men can be masculine too, honestly it annoys me how people instantly assume gay=effeminate, that's stupid meda's fault >_<  One of the reasons I want to be able to pursue M/m with shepard is so he can break that sterotupe somewhat, bad-ass galaxy saving man who just happens to romanceo ther guys on the side

True, veiled responses do save them from major backlash -_-

I think having one character who is the option, and one you tell them you're not interested they never bring it up again, might be a good way to go, but then again, you have the slightest hint of gayness there too so...i guess there may be no solution that makes everyone happy Image IPB

#2841
Guest_Ryuuichi009_*

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Yeah Snake and Otacon from MGS have a bromance going on that ventures into Heterosexual Life Parters, Her Two Daddies and Ho Yay all at once. XD

But the Metal Gear Solid series in general has a lot of bromances and ho yay/foe yay/if its you its okay in it.

Yet somehow the fanboys didn't manage to explode over that despite Kojima pretty much going "oh that crazy awesome manly protagonist? Yeah he was into the anti-hero and wants to shag the protagonist because he happens to be a clone of the anit-hero."  >_> Its a sad sad day when bloody Japan seems to be more tolerant than the Western World. (Yeah I know this isn't the case but they already have it in their video games and the world hasn't exploded [even if it does tend to be limited to depraved bisexuals]). Then again if there is ever going to be a gay character that's in the spotlight that's not camp its going to originate in Japan just watch.

The day that happens will be awesome!

Though his love interest will probably be a bishounen or shotacon. <_<

'Tis still Japan.

Modifié par Ryuuichi009, 09 février 2010 - 04:34 .


#2842
JamesMoriarty123

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LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I thought Bromance meant brotherly love? Or am I missing something here?


Brotherly love can lead to "If its you its okay"


Erm, not really. Love and sexual desire are 2 seperate things, but obviously in the natural order of things they go hand in hand most of the time. I've known my best buddy for 20 years, since I was 3, I love him like a brother, but to ever even conceive of being gay with him...hell no.

The only way it leads to that If It's You stuff is if desire was present in the first place, which means you weren't really straight to begin with.

#2843
FataliTensei

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JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I thought Bromance meant brotherly love? Or am I missing something here?


As did I, i think what he means is people who start off a really good buddies and then eventully move onto more, but still maintain that buddy-like behavior even though they're in a relationship.

#2844
Erode_The_Soul

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darkshadow136 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

NO. Shepard is not a fruit.


Couldn't have said it better, agreed. No Shepard is not a fruit


Nope, not a fruit. He's not a vegetable either. Or a pie, for that matter. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's not any type of food stuff.:whistle:

#2845
IMTrick

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darkshadow136 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

NO. Shepard is not a fruit.


Couldn't have said it better, agreed. No Shepard is not a fruit, and has no place in this game. Hell I disliked that they even slightly incorporating that type of thing in DAO with Zeveren. Also before political peeps jump on my coment. I'm completly non-political I just disagree with the lifestyle choice both personally and within my beliefs.


For the record, I totally disagree with yours (though you won't ever hear me dictating what people should and shouldn't include in your games).

#2846
JamesMoriarty123

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FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.


I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?


The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue. :(

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.



See now it bugs me that a bad-ass has to be straight, gay men can be masculine too, honestly it annoys me how people instantly assume gay=effeminate, that's stupid meda's fault >_<  One of the reasons I want to be able to pursue M/m with shepard is so he can break that sterotupe somewhat, bad-ass galaxy saving man who just happens to romanceo ther guys on the side

True, veiled responses do save them from major backlash -_-

I think having one character who is the option, and one you tell them you're not interested they never bring it up again, might be a good way to go, but then again, you have the slightest hint of gayness there too so...i guess there may be no solution that makes everyone happy Image IPB


Like I said dude, I don't enforce the stereotype, but it is a stereotype for a reason. Like in my previous post I mentioned Louis, the gay assassin, total badass, just happens to be gay.
You have to admit though, a lot of gay men are effeminate to a degree, and a lot (at least in the public eye) are pacifists.

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

#2847
FataliTensei

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JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I thought Bromance meant brotherly love? Or am I missing something here?


Brotherly love can lead to "If its you its okay"


Erm, not really. Love and sexual desire are 2 seperate things, but obviously in the natural order of things they go hand in hand most of the time. I've known my best buddy for 20 years, since I was 3, I love him like a brother, but to ever even conceive of being gay with him...hell no.

The only way it leads to that If It's You stuff is if desire was present in the first place, which means you weren't really straight to begin with.


I have a male friend that I've known for a long time, I have a bromance with him, but the sheer though of having a relationship with thim is very unappealing to me, and it's not because of him being unnatractive or anything, it's just a "no" and that's all there is to it.

not necessarily, it's possible, but only for who fall in love with the person and look past the gender, but just for that person, they would never feel anythng for anyone else of that gender, i can understand that

#2848
pfcpartsz

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Was curious at the amount of replies and read through the last few pages.  I hadn't seen anything wrong or thought about it until this thread...

I don't feel Jshep is iconic at all since I've played as a femshep through most of my playthroughs; the female VA is clearly superior to the male one and truthfully I can't resist the girl on girl action lol (sorry!)... 

Players could have played through without any romances at all so saying he's predetermined is crap as he's just that way in your game.  There were alot of awkward glances and talks with Alenko and Jacob as Jshep...  Anderson also has a pic of Alenko on his desk in my game so maybe the future is more open...  hopefully...  Image IPB

If it is truly a game about choices and freedom of those choices, then why restrict the most personal one?

Will allowing that option change your game or your shep?  No. 

It should be an option.  If you don't swing that way then there are other LIs.  I really don't see what the big deal is against it...  Again adding the option wouldn't change your char or how you played through it or changed a character that you helped create through your choices...  Not allowing that option or hiding behind some technical excuse is pretty lame... 

Hundreds of years into the future you'd think they'd be past these early 21st century arcane constructs.  Image IPB

#2849
Taiko Roshi

Taiko Roshi
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Have any of you poofs probed Uranus yet?

#2850
JamesMoriarty123

JamesMoriarty123
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Taiko Roshi wrote...

Have any of you poofs probed Uranus yet?


Dude, what are you doing...we've JUST moved away from trolling...