3059 réponses à ce sujet

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.

I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?

The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue.

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.

See now it bugs me that a bad-ass has to be straight, gay men can be masculine too, honestly it annoys me how people instantly assume gay=effeminate, that's stupid meda's fault >_<  One of the reasons I want to be able to pursue M/m with shepard is so he can break that sterotupe somewhat, bad-ass galaxy saving man who just happens to romanceo ther guys on the side

True, veiled responses do save them from major backlash

I think having one character who is the option, and one you tell them you're not interested they never bring it up again, might be a good way to go, but then again, you have the slightest hint of gayness there too so...i guess there may be no solution that makes everyone happy

Like I said dude, I don't enforce the stereotype, but it is a stereotype for a reason. Like in my previous post I mentioned Louis, the gay assassin, total badass, just happens to be gay.
You have to admit though, a lot of gay men are effeminate to a degree, and a lot (at least in the public eye) are pacifists.

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

I think it's because we connect, on varying levels based on the player, to our shepard, mainly because of the degree of customization given, it's asking us how we would respond to that situation when we get to choose, so i guess when people tell us what we can and can't do with shepard it gets a little personal, some more than others

Lol and you got to remember though, it is your shepard, if he isn't gay, he isn't, that's all there is to it.

[FataliTensei]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

NO. Shepard is not a fruit.

Couldn't have said it better, agreed. No Shepard is not a fruit

Nope, not a fruit. He's not a vegetable either. Or a pie, for that matter. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's not any type of food stuff.

awesom reply

[LoveAsThouWilt]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Taiko Roshi wrote...

Have any of you poofs probed Uranus yet?

Dude, what are you doing...we've JUST moved away from trolling...

First thing I will agree with you on. Yes.. Just.. wow. Childish much.

[Jimmy Fury]

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
I've hugged lots of my male friends. Doesn't mean I'm all of  a sudden Bi. Gay guys don't get brotherly camaradarie it seems...they just see an excuse to infer gayness.

Seeing an excuse to infer gayness from 2 guys being close, that's actually annoying to me even though I am gay >_<

I ge brotherly camaraderie,  have tons of straight guy friends, we have hugged before and I've felt nothing when we do, mind you they don't know about me, because it seems that straight men infer that gay men are attracted to every male they meet

lol. This is what I meant by my circle of friends giving me a totally flawed world view.
I absolutely get brotherly comaraderie. My best friend is completely straight, knows I'm gay, and the two of us are so close that people assume we're a couple.
The rest of my friends are all straight too and nobody cares about my sexuality in the least.
So yeah.. I don't get the discomfort thing because I don't have experience with it on a meaningful level. I've seen it. I know it exists. But it's a bit like brain surgery to me. I don't comprehend it and I don't try.

Ach. Off topic.

Back to the proper discussion.
Yeah I get that dev's are cryptic but as you said, they'll get flamed no matter what they say. So why wouldn't they just tell the truth? Most of the fanbase is mature enough to accept the truth and I'm sure we would all prefer the truth over a dishonest excuse.
As for resources required, I have to disagree. The dialogue almost never uses gender-specific pronouns. Squad mates are refered to by name and Shep is refered to as "commander" "captain" or just "Shepard". Which means the dialogue is gender-neutral and can work the same no matter who is saying it to whom.
The Kaiden/M.Shep video shows that a simple reallignment of the systems gender-association does all the work. The kissing scene still worked exactly the same way. The only "new" content would be the code required to make any Shep model work in the fade-to-black scene.
I do agree that the lost love backgrounds for Kaidan and Thane are important. Personally I don't think that should limit them in persuing Shepard (Zevran had a similar story about a woman), but I would gladly compromise and forget them completely if the option was introduced in another character.

[JamesMoriarty123]

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.

I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?

The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue.

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.

See now it bugs me that a bad-ass has to be straight, gay men can be masculine too, honestly it annoys me how people instantly assume gay=effeminate, that's stupid meda's fault >_<  One of the reasons I want to be able to pursue M/m with shepard is so he can break that sterotupe somewhat, bad-ass galaxy saving man who just happens to romanceo ther guys on the side

True, veiled responses do save them from major backlash

I think having one character who is the option, and one you tell them you're not interested they never bring it up again, might be a good way to go, but then again, you have the slightest hint of gayness there too so...i guess there may be no solution that makes everyone happy

Like I said dude, I don't enforce the stereotype, but it is a stereotype for a reason. Like in my previous post I mentioned Louis, the gay assassin, total badass, just happens to be gay.
You have to admit though, a lot of gay men are effeminate to a degree, and a lot (at least in the public eye) are pacifists.

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

I think it's because we connect, on varying levels based on the player, to our shepard, mainly because of the degree of customization given, it's asking us how we would respond to that situation when we get to choose, so i guess when people tell us what we can and can't do with shepard it gets a little personal, some more than others

Lol and you got to remember though, it is your shepard, if he isn't gay, he isn't, that's all there is to it.

Just having you say that last line has made me all the more amenable to open discussion here. I mean you're right, my Shep is a ladies man, through and through.
You're right about feeling connected to your particular Shepherd though, 2 games and 60 hours is a lot to get to know one character.

The only outstanding issue is that ME is like a film trilogy to me, the backgrounds are so worked into it to suddenly change the format would be more than disagreeable to me.
Also I think this thread would be far better off and prmote a far better response if people would get away from the "Oh well, Kaiden/Thane etc could be Bi" comments. Changing established characters would REALLY damage the game for everyone who ISNT gay. The logic just isn't there, if they were Bi, they'd have made a pass at you already, and the dialogue in game heavily suggests that they are straight. This can't be denied. In fact that's the reason I get more worked up, not so much about the inclusion of a future gay character, but the fact that people want the current ones changed.

[IMTrick]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

You know, as much as some people *might* jump down your throat for that last part, I think it's the most valid reason for *not* including a gay Shep.  If not handled very carefully, there's a chance of making straight guys (the largest sector of the gaming audience, especially for action-based games like the ME series) squirm.  I think that's probably the most likely reason, despite everything else said here, that Homoshep hasn't been getting any lovin'.

I've got to respect that a little (both the marketing decision and your willingness to be up-front about it).  Now, I've been spoiled by BioWare a bit in the past and I still think Kaiden's just a Michelob and a dev with a little extra time on his hands from coming out of the closet, but I can understand BioWare not wanting to make a good-sized portion of their target audience uncomfortable.  I could go into how I think the discomfort is a bit irrational since any hetero ought to be able to throw a "no" at it with no damage done and maybe a compliment taken from it (whether in a game or in a real-life situation), but that's really beside the point.

My point? Not sure I have one, other than that, if Shep ends up in the closet for the entire series, I firmly believe your discomfort with the idea, and that of a whole lot of other straight guys, is probably the one and only reason you may never see Kaiden and Homoshep sharing a bottle of cabernet in the officer's cabin.

Modifié par IMTrick, 09 février 2010 - 04:46 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
I've hugged lots of my male friends. Doesn't mean I'm all of  a sudden Bi. Gay guys don't get brotherly camaradarie it seems...they just see an excuse to infer gayness.

Seeing an excuse to infer gayness from 2 guys being close, that's actually annoying to me even though I am gay >_<

I ge brotherly camaraderie,  have tons of straight guy friends, we have hugged before and I've felt nothing when we do, mind you they don't know about me, because it seems that straight men infer that gay men are attracted to every male they meet

lol. This is what I meant by my circle of friends giving me a totally flawed world view.
I absolutely get brotherly comaraderie. My best friend is completely straight, knows I'm gay, and the two of us are so close that people assume we're a couple.
The rest of my friends are all straight too and nobody cares about my sexuality in the least.
So yeah.. I don't get the discomfort thing because I don't have experience with it on a meaningful level. I've seen it. I know it exists. But it's a bit like brain surgery to me. I don't comprehend it and I don't try.

Ach. Off topic.

Back to the proper discussion.
Yeah I get that dev's are cryptic but as you said, they'll get flamed no matter what they say. So why wouldn't they just tell the truth? Most of the fanbase is mature enough to accept the truth and I'm sure we would all prefer the truth over a dishonest excuse.
As for resources required, I have to disagree. The dialogue almost never uses gender-specific pronouns. Squad mates are refered to by name and Shep is refered to as "commander" "captain" or just "Shepard". Which means the dialogue is gender-neutral and can work the same no matter who is saying it to whom.
The Kaiden/M.Shep video shows that a simple reallignment of the systems gender-association does all the work. The kissing scene still worked exactly the same way. The only "new" content would be the code required to make any Shep model work in the fade-to-black scene.
I do agree that the lost love backgrounds for Kaidan and Thane are important. Personally I don't think that should limit them in persuing Shepard (Zevran had a similar story about a woman), but I would gladly compromise and forget them completely if the option was introduced in another character.

See my post previous to this for the further discussion.
But i;d have to disagree with you on the "compromise" bit. If a gay optoin was to be considered i would VEHEMENTLY vote to preserve the stae of the current characters. Sure some people are Bi, but 99% of men that have a history with women, a loving history, are straight. I mean that's pretty much a given.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I still say the flirting of the Shepard and Kaidan exists in ME1 as stands now. 

Modifié par LoveAsThouWilt, 09 février 2010 - 04:48 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

IMTrick wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

You know, as much as some people *might* jump down your throat for that last part, I think it's the most valid reason for *not* including a gay Shep.  If not handled very carefully, there's a chance of making straight guys (the largest sector of the gaming audience, especially for action-based games like the ME series) squirm.  I think that's probably the most likely reason, despite everything else said here, that Homoshep hasn't been getting any lovin'.

I've got to respect that a little (both the marketing decision and your willingness to be up-front about it).  Now, I've been spoiled by BioWare a bit in the past and I still think Kaiden's just a Michelob and a dev with a little extra time on his hands from coming out of the closet, but I can understand BioWare not wanting to make a good-sized portion of their target audience uncomfortable.  I could go into how I think the discomfort is a bit irrational since any hetero ought to be able to throw a "no" at it with no damage done and maybe a compliment taken from it (whether in a game or in a real-life situation), but that's really beside the point.

My point? Not sure I have one, other than that, if Shep ends up in the closet for the entire series, I firmly believe your discomfort with the idea, and that of a whole lot of other straight guys, is probably the one and only reason you may never see Kaiden and Homoshep sharing a bottle of cabernet in the officer's cabin.

Well, the Kaiden thing is different, See my other post.
But yeah, as for not including a new gay character I mean yeah, I'm not going to lie, it would make me uncomfortable, and like you said I'm probably not the only straight player who feels this way. Irrational as that discomfort may be it doesn't make it any less real.
I suppose thanks are in order for actually seeing where I'm coming from, this is how things go when no one trolls, both sides actually reading and understanding

[JamesMoriarty123]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

I still say the flirting of the Shepard and Kaidan exists in ME1 as stands now. 

Only because you're gay. I see no such thing. At all. Just two old friends.

[BrianWilly]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ryuuchi, you are so not a woman. Lol.
I wasn't trying to troll you, I was geninuely interested. You failure to respond tells me all I need to know. There's no way a woman would go to this length just to see some man on man. In fact, more women are put off by man/man than actually dig it.

But if you are a woman, I just dont get the OBSESSION, especially with Kaiden...mystifying.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, seriously Ryuuchi, as a woman, why do you get off this much on m/m relations? I mean I'm straight and I like to watch lesbian porn now and again, but I don't obsess over it. I'm geniunly interested in the reasoning behind your obsession with gay men? Whats the story?

You seriously don't think a straight person could strongly sympathize with gay people and want to encourage tolerance and equality on their behalf?  Next you're going to tell us that you find it confusing when white people aren't racist.

But then, you yourself helped us out a lot too, simply by constantly keeping this thread at the top of the page for so long.

115 pages and still going strong.  WOOT.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 09 février 2010 - 04:52 .

[Akrim_Drak]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Just having you say that last line has made me all the more amenable to open discussion here. I mean you're right, my Shep is a ladies man, through and through.
You're right about feeling connected to your particular Shepherd though, 2 games and 60 hours is a lot to get to know one character.

The only outstanding issue is that ME is like a film trilogy to me, the backgrounds are so worked into it to suddenly change the format would be more than disagreeable to me.
Also I think this thread would be far better off and prmote a far better response if people would get away from the "Oh well, Kaiden/Thane etc could be Bi" comments. Changing established characters would REALLY damage the game for everyone who ISNT gay. The logic just isn't there, if they were Bi, they'd have made a pass at you already, and the dialogue in game heavily suggests that they are straight. This can't be denied. In fact that's the reason I get more worked up, not so much about the inclusion of a future gay character, but the fact that people want the current ones changed.

I will add, playing through Dragon Age and having that option(of course silly me fell for Alistair) but the subtle things made a huge difference. I connected with the game SO much better. I still connect with Shepard, but he's single and lonely. I don't mind persay but that's what I feel.

Also on the note of wanting Kaidan/Thane/etc. I think it's mostly wishful thinking/etc. I mean look at how many people fell for Samara? Same situation. I personally liked Kaidan's character but if I had to choose between a new NPC or nothing, it's obvious what I'd pick. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[IceSavage]

Ultimately what it all boils down to is



BioWare made a choice and you don't agree. You may think that talking the topic to death will change their mind, and that is your right, but I don't.





Finally, if you don't like the fact that they don't support a gay Shepard then don't buy the game. It really is as simple as that. If you believe in the topic that much and BioWare doesnt deliver you can only influence a company like this with your wallet.





Gay or No Gay. Doesnt really matter. What matters is if the game is good enough to fork over $50-60 dollars of your money.







Still, this topic to me looks like 10-15 people continously posting. With some lurkers like myself chiming in every now and then... don't you think it is about time to believe that BioWare heard you.



Nevermind, what do I know.

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
It's more a matter of continuity as stated before. The option simply doesn't exist which is a MASSIVE inferrence to MSheps sexual stance. If you look deep enough you can read something into anything, but the facts speak for themselves.

I won't get into real life situations because, honestly, I have an entirely flawed world view due to my circle of friends.
Back on topic though.

I beleive what you just said is the core of why there is so much debate between our sides. You see the lack of option as a sign of Shep's sexuality. Many of us see it simply as something that was removed from the game.
And yes, I understand your position that this signifies that the designers decided Shepard was Straight. The problem is we were told the removal was due to resource restrictions in the first games design. Which means it was intended as part of the character but then taken out for purely technical reasons.
Most of us, me at least, were fine with this explanation. Then we discovered that the same thing was done in ME2 with the m.Shep/Thane dialogue and the f.Shep/Tali dialogue.

So, this brings me to another hypothetical. Would you be opposed to the proposition made on another thread about a gameplay options setting. Nothing that occurs in-game, but a same-sex romance dialogue option switch in the same settings menu as Difficulty level and Subtitles.
Particularly one that with a default setting of Off.
That way, by keeping it at the default setting, Shepards sexuality is never called into question. But those who want to change the setting will be able to. Heck, it could even be argued that it would mean "default Shepard" is straight since the default is Off.
Thoughts?

The option would be a cool feature sure. The implementation of such a thing would be rather difficult though. As it would mean switching dialogue sets and altering the entire flow of the game basically, right down to the tiniest details. Also double the dialogue.

On the Kaiden/Thane thing, the "lost love" was a big part of their characters exposition and background. And it's something a lot of people relate to. This is basically the root of the issue, the fact that 90% or ME players are straight men and women, it's just the demographics. The fact that a FShep can romance Liara (Kelly isn't really a romance, she's just loose as hell and crazy) was a questionable decision by the devs, but Liara IS an alien. (Please can we stay away from this though, the whole alien/gender/female debate, I mention it only in refenerce) FShep can't romance Ash afterall.

Obviously the "there wasn't time" excuse is standard reason for game devs. People have blamed a lot worse on "lack of time" when the root cause was something else. The problem is that an honest response such as "The writers decided they didn't want to pursue the gay option" or "Because of potential media blowback we are not including a gay romance option" would undoubtedly please some people, and just incite flaming from others, hence the reason dev's are always cryptic.

In public perception, Shepherd is an icon. A macho, galaxy saving bad ass. Now the public perception of the average gay man is slighty effeminate/camp pacifist who is possessing of a complex web of sensitive emotions. However true or untrue that is out int he world, its true with regards to the general pop opinion. I think Biowares veiled response is only veiled because to say "No, we're not including the option" would be to incite a flame war and to say "Yes, we are including the option" would be to incite a flame war. Lol.

See now it bugs me that a bad-ass has to be straight, gay men can be masculine too, honestly it annoys me how people instantly assume gay=effeminate, that's stupid meda's fault >_<  One of the reasons I want to be able to pursue M/m with shepard is so he can break that sterotupe somewhat, bad-ass galaxy saving man who just happens to romanceo ther guys on the side

True, veiled responses do save them from major backlash

I think having one character who is the option, and one you tell them you're not interested they never bring it up again, might be a good way to go, but then again, you have the slightest hint of gayness there too so...i guess there may be no solution that makes everyone happy

Like I said dude, I don't enforce the stereotype, but it is a stereotype for a reason. Like in my previous post I mentioned Louis, the gay assassin, total badass, just happens to be gay.
You have to admit though, a lot of gay men are effeminate to a degree, and a lot (at least in the public eye) are pacifists.

And I already said that for me the one gay character option as you mentioned above would be fine. For some reason I cant explain though, it's something I'd live with, but still would abhor the suggestion that Shepherd could be gay. Maybe it's because of the way its not in the other 2 games, or my view of the character, or just my discomfort with having a gay guy flirt/make a pass at me.

I think it's because we connect, on varying levels based on the player, to our shepard, mainly because of the degree of customization given, it's asking us how we would respond to that situation when we get to choose, so i guess when people tell us what we can and can't do with shepard it gets a little personal, some more than others

Lol and you got to remember though, it is your shepard, if he isn't gay, he isn't, that's all there is to it.

Just having you say that last line has made me all the more amenable to open discussion here. I mean you're right, my Shep is a ladies man, through and through.
You're right about feeling connected to your particular Shepherd though, 2 games and 60 hours is a lot to get to know one character.

The only outstanding issue is that ME is like a film trilogy to me, the backgrounds are so worked into it to suddenly change the format would be more than disagreeable to me.
Also I think this thread would be far better off and prmote a far better response if people would get away from the "Oh well, Kaiden/Thane etc could be Bi" comments. Changing established characters would REALLY damage the game for everyone who ISNT gay. The logic just isn't there, if they were Bi, they'd have made a pass at you already, and the dialogue in game heavily suggests that they are straight. This can't be denied. In fact that's the reason I get more worked up, not so much about the inclusion of a future gay character, but the fact that people want the current ones changed.

Yeah, that's why only through the intro of a new character  would it work, there fans of the characters who've already been created and like you said, for continuity's sake we shouldn't just up and change sexual orientation.  Thane and Kaidan had the chance to be bi, that part of them didn't make the cut unfortunately. I do not want current ones changed, i wish they had been like originally planned in their original games, but in the next installment  f the series they shouldn't just be up and changed.   

[JamesMoriarty123]

BrianWilly wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ryuuchi, you are so not a woman. Lol.
I wasn't trying to troll you, I was geninuely interested. You failure to respond tells me all I need to know. There's no way a woman would go to this length just to see some man on man. In fact, more women are put off by man/man than actually dig it.

But if you are a woman, I just dont get the OBSESSION, especially with Kaiden...mystifying.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, seriously Ryuuchi, as a
woman, why do you get off this much on m/m relations? I mean I'm
straight and I like to watch lesbian porn now and again, but I don't
obsess over it. I'm geniunly interested in the reasoning behind your
obsession with gay men? Whats the story?

You seriously don't think a straight person could strongly sympathize with gay people and want to encourage tolerance and equality?  Next you're going to tell us that you find it confusing when white people aren't racist.

But then, you yourself helped us out a lot too, simply by constantly keeping this thread at the top of the page for so long.

115 pages and still going strong.  WOOT.

It's clowns like you that bring this thread down. We've been having a sensible debate without trolls like you or Ryuuchi for some pages now. Please go away.
And at the risk of provoking a response from you, I find her OBSESSION with it strange. She goes beyond empathise. (Thats right, empathise, not sympathise, to sympathise implies you feel pity)

[Nautica773]

IMTrick wrote...
You know, as much as some people *might* jump down your throat for that last part, I think it's the most valid reason for *not* including a gay Shep.  If not handled very carefully, there's a chance of making straight guys (the largest sector of the gaming audience, especially for action-based games like the ME series) squirm.  I think that's probably the most likely reason, despite everything else said here, that Homoshep hasn't been getting any lovin'.

I'm not sure as many straight guys as you think are as squeamish around another guy hitting on them. I don't know, maybe it's where I grew up, but neither I nor any of my friends would be grossed out by it. It could also be an age issue as well. I mean, what's to be grossed out by someone finding you attractive? 

It's like a girl you don't find attractive admitting they're attracted to you. You tell them you're not interested and you move on from there. Or, perhaps there is a greater distress associated with that situation in America. I can only assume you're American, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

I still say the flirting of the Shepard and Kaidan exists in ME1 as stands now. 

Only because you're gay. I see no such thing. At all. Just two old friends.

I have to admit the animation when shepard walks up to kaidan is a bit...ho-yay-ish, but once they start talking it's clear it;s just 2 friends talking.

[Erode_The_Soul]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

And at the risk of provoking a response from you, I find her OBSESSION with it strange. She goes beyond empathise. (Thats right, empathise, not sympathise, to sympathise implies you feel pity)

Not to further the arguing, but just chiming in as a lurker: your own obsession with her feelings on the subject is a bit creepy.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Nautica773 wrote...

IMTrick wrote...
You know, as much as some people *might* jump down your throat for that last part, I think it's the most valid reason for *not* including a gay Shep.  If not handled very carefully, there's a chance of making straight guys (the largest sector of the gaming audience, especially for action-based games like the ME series) squirm.  I think that's probably the most likely reason, despite everything else said here, that Homoshep hasn't been getting any lovin'.

I'm not sure as many straight guys as you think are as squeamish around another guy hitting on them. I don't know, maybe it's where I grew up, but neither I nor any of my friends would be grossed out by it. It could also be an age issue as well. I mean, what's to be grossed out by someone finding you attractive? 

It's like a girl you don't find attractive admitting they're attracted to you. You tell them you're not interested and you move on from there. Or, perhaps there is a greater distress associated with that situation in America. I can only assume you're American, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Im English actually

EDIT : Ryuuchi, a lot of people have agreed that your posting pics and creating gay scenarios and obsessing is sad. You're just a troll. Back to talk about me to someone else as you don't want to come right out with it. Read the last few pages, this is what happens without trolls like you. sensible debate.

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ryuuchi, you are so not a woman. Lol.
I wasn't trying to troll you, I was geninuely interested. You failure to respond tells me all I need to know. There's no way a woman would go to this length just to see some man on man. In fact, more women are put off by man/man than actually dig it.

But if you are a woman, I just dont get the OBSESSION, especially with Kaiden...mystifying.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Lol, seriously Ryuuchi, as a
woman, why do you get off this much on m/m relations? I mean I'm
straight and I like to watch lesbian porn now and again, but I don't
obsess over it. I'm geniunly interested in the reasoning behind your
obsession with gay men? Whats the story?

You seriously don't think a straight person could strongly sympathize with gay people and want to encourage tolerance and equality?  Next you're going to tell us that you find it confusing when white people aren't racist.

But then, you yourself helped us out a lot too, simply by constantly keeping this thread at the top of the page for so long.

115 pages and still going strong.  WOOT.

It's clowns like you that bring this thread down. We've been having a sensible debate without trolls like you or Ryuuchi for some pages now. Please go away.
And at the risk of provoking a response from you, I find her OBSESSION with it strange. She goes beyond empathise. (Thats right, empathise, not sympathise, to sympathise implies you feel pity)

lol ryuuichi isn't troll

[JamesMoriarty123]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

And at the risk of provoking a response from you, I find her OBSESSION with it strange. She goes beyond empathise. (Thats right, empathise, not sympathise, to sympathise implies you feel pity)

Not to further the arguing, but just chiming in as a lurker: your own obsession with her feelings on the subject is a bit creepy.

It's just been a running thing with her/him over the last couple of days, just trying to figure her interest in it.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Enough with the troll calling eh? We were having a good debate up till now...

[IMTrick]

FataliTensei wrote...

I have to admit the animation when shepard walks up to kaidan is a bit...ho-yay-ish, but once they start talking it's clear it;s just 2 friends talking.

Hehe... it's the bicep flex, I tell ya.  The casual rub of the back of the neck and the arm flex every time Shep walks by (especially when it's coupled with a slow turn and an uncomfortably long silence)? No straight guy does that.

[FataliTensei]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Enough with the troll calling eh? We were having a good debate up till now...

yeah let's avoid troll calling unless it's bltantly obvious