3059 réponses à ce sujet

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I'd happily accept Hendel.

[Traumacrazy]

...who is hendel

[jamnkick]

Traumacrazy wrote...

...who is hendel

Character from ME: Ascension.

Though I agree with the Hendel thing, it kinda feels like a cop-out because there's already data for existing characters. But that's my opinion

[Arik7]

jamnkick wrote...

Traumacrazy wrote...

...who is hendel

Character from ME: Ascension.

Though I agree with the Hendel thing, it kinda feels like a cop-out because there's already data for existing characters. But that's my opinion

Yeah, a new character would be preferable.

[Madame November]

I missed 15 or 20 pages... There's a consensus? Recap, pretty please!<3

[Madame November]

ahhhhh.... Well, I love Kaiden too, (although, I am a little pissed at him right now) but any consensus on this issue is a real achievement. 175 Gamer Points!!!!

[Ninja Mage]

Yeah I would be fine with a new gay character as DLC, if it will shut the haters up

[colejossart]

Omg... if it will stop threads like this then put zevran in ME2... christ!

[Nautica773]

Bob5312 wrote...

At the risk of offending, this thread is at 121 pages now, and I'm not sure what more can be said that hasn't been said already.

In the spoilers section there's a Tali thread over three hundred or so pages. Sure, there will be a repeat of discussions and the like, but it is good to leave it in one thread instead of having a million threads debating the same thing cropping up all the time.

[Akrim_Drak]

Yeah I don't see why we're not "allowed" to discuss the possibilities of said topics. I mean if you're not interested in it then why even post? I don't care for Tali and you won't find me over in her threads because it's not something I'm interested in. People baffle me sometimes. *shrugs*

Anyway the only picture we have of Hendel(if you even wanna call it that) is the cover of the novel

(He's the one on the right)

His description though reminds me of this but with shorter, lighter hair. He's also got a bit lighter skin and is more muscular than Duncan. When I compare the two though this is almost the image I had of him. They'd be about the same age too. (and no I'm not saying put Duncan in space and make him gay. I'm just COMPARING appearances...)

Modifié par Akrim_Drak, 09 février 2010 - 05:26 .

[SnowHeart1]

Nautica773 wrote...

Bob5312 wrote...

At the risk of offending, this thread is at 121 pages now, and I'm not sure what more can be said that hasn't been said already.

In the spoilers section there's a Tali thread over three hundred or so pages. Sure, there will be a repeat of discussions and the like, but it is good to leave it in one thread instead of having a million threads debating the same thing cropping up all the time.

What Nautica said.  Without a single thread of many, many pages, there will instead be many, many threads of relatively few pages.  Better to have it all in one place. 

[ZMJ10]

I think no gay or lesbian option is bad because there are obviously alot of ppl who support and or live this way i want to see it an option in ME2 because its just not right to ruin the game for ppl with such an easy thing to do oh and don't pull that (but it not cannon) bull**** because this game is about a character you as a player has customized and developed certain decisions so whatever path the player chooses is CANNON not what the developers or other players think what cannon should be for every single shepherd!! this being said plz do this Bioware be brave in such a violent media ill support u and i am sure there are others that would too.

[ZMJ10]

with the above being said i am not gay or lesbian its just right to give the old world thinking up!!!!!!

[Beskar7]

I actually thought you could have a homosexual romance with Jacob. He kept getting all feely with my male shepard. Turned him down for Miranda.

Modifié par Beskar7, 09 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[tyddrwsau]

A new male character who's interested in men would be just fine with me, so long as his character is well developed. That proviso only seems necessary, given BioWare's usual thorough character writing, because of Zaeed's truncated conversation and character development. I rather liked the mechanic of learning about Zaeed through discussing his trophies, but this would have been better as an augment to, rather than a replacement for, more interactive conversation. If added as additional content for Mass Effect 2 (which would be great), he should integrate smoothly into ME3.



There are a couple reasons that I can see why it's so easy to focus on existing characters like Kaiden or Thane. First, they're already developed and written, we've had the opportunity to get to know and appreciate these characters. It's easy to become attached, and use these developed character examples instead of an amorphous new NPC. After all, people didn't want the opportunity to romance "a Quarian" - they wanted to romance Tali. A generic Quarian is an unknown without any definitive appeal.



Second, those pre-recorded lines of dialogue that flesh out the same romantic opportunities for male Shepard and Kaiden, female Shepard and Ashley, and apparently elements of male Shepard and Thane or Garrus all create the feeling of missed opportunity and the knowledge that what we've asked for is already so close to done. Saying that these were cut from final release doesn't diminish the disappointment many of us feel upon discovering their presence however un-implemented. This also makes it harder to accept the idea "it never happened, and adding it now would be a ret-con!"



To use a recent cinematic example, in the recent movie production of the _Fellowship of the Ring_, the scene detailing the gifts of Galadriel was not present in the theatrical release. It was added back in for the extended DVD edition. Because we didn't see that scene on opening day in the theatre doesn't mean it didn't happen - we know it did, we know it was filmed, and we got to see it added back later. This is a true example of a completely predetermined narrative from a third person narrative view, by the way. We don't get to Renegade interrupt to say "Galadriel takes the Ring!! Terrible as the Sea it is!" For Mass Effect, there are a limited number of options, but we get to choose among them. Of those choices, romantically, male Shepard romances Ashley, Liara, Nobody, or.... Kaiden "if only that weren't cut from the theatrical release." That, I think, is where the preexisting character wishes most strongly originates. That's reinforced by similar content present, but not fully implemented, in the sequel.



As for who a hypothetical gay teammate and potential love interest could be... that's a wide open slate. The general idea embodied in the "anti-Shepard" concept isn't bad: the "beloved rival" is a time tested trope that can make for some very compelling chemistry. It might be a little hard though - who in the Universe is really set up to be a compelling and believable rival for Shepard without becoming an enemy? Shepard is a Force To Be Reckoned With in the galaxy. Writing a rival who can genuinely be at odds, but still could be a friend gets complicated.



Most of the people who have posted in favor, here, seem to prefer a character who is masculine and heroic in his own right. I like that idea, too. Shepard doesn't need a tagalong, but someone who can actually be his Partner.



To close, I've seen some writer and developer interviews where these folks have said that a same-sex romance is hard to write in general. I would say this is only true if one accepts that such a romance has to be fundamentally different from any other relationship. Observe how so many on this thread are happy to think that male Shepard or female Shepard had the same lines of dialogue with Kaiden or Ashley. Nothing different, just acted out by a Shepard of a different gender. In DA:O, I might imagine that a tactful scripting of Zevran's "do you have a problem with that?" lines may have been the hardest part. In the imaginary future of Mass Effect, perhaps our gay space hero doesn't need to worry about "do you have a problem with that?" issues. He can say: "Shepard, I think you're really cute." Shepard can say: "You're not so bad yourself!" or "Thanks, but not interested" and proceed from there.

[Jimmy Fury]

tyddrwsau wrote...
[many great things snipped for space]

I think you are absolutely spot-on about the desire for Kaidan. It has even been stated clearly that some of the Kaidan fans want that romance because of the history between Kaidan and Shepard.

The problem with that is, Kaidan and Shepard do not have a romantic history in any unmodded version of the game. People may read into certain lines and looks that something was there, but the simple fact is the romantic dialogues provided by the code-mod did not appear in the finalized game.
Including him as a romance option at this point would make the m/m relationship less than the m/f relationship that could be persued with female Shepard. They would not have had the same conversation about Ashley, they would not have had the same interaction in ME2. The relationships would be completely different.
It would have to be explained by specific targeted dialogue between Kaidan and male-Shepard detailing why the romance option wasn't present before, at the begining of the story. Such dialogue would not work in conversation with female-Shepard because the option already existed.

Yes, modding the game allows you to play out the romance with male-Shepard exactly the same way as it does with female-Shepard thus bypassing any need to explain why it wasn't there.
But that's not fair to 360 players. We have no mod. We have absolutely no way to "fix" the romance in the first game. We will never have a savegame in which Kaidan and Male Shepard are in a relationship. 

So quite simply, as much as we may want it. It is neither realistic nor fair to anyone because:
-Making the two romances different, with different histories, is the embodiment of Seperate-but-equal. "You can have kaidan you just can't have the history he has with fem.Shep"
-Any explanitory dialogue would literally require resources be used solely to satisfy the desires of a small portion of the fanbase. This is special treatment and it's unfair to the large portions of the fanbase that also want something specific.
-Companies simply do not patch 3-5 year old games (3 if patched now, 5 or more if patched in when ME3 comes out). It doesn't happen. Especially when it isn't to fix a technical problem but to retcon (literally) a story element.
-We do not know if patches would even work on the 360. We only know that the dialogue made it into the PC version. It's impossible to know if it made it into the 360 version.

So as much as I adore Kaidan and as much as I would love to reply 1 and 2 with him as a romance, I simply do not see it as a reasonable course of action on BioWare's part.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

I would still like to see DLC to 'unlock' the existing m/m Kaiden romance option, and for Garrus/Thane if it existed in ME2. Probably wishful thinking on my part, but as DLC people who weren't interested in it would not have to buy it. It might overly complicate ME3 if Kaiden plays a larger role, but then Bioware's got a track record of developing Kaiden m/m for the game even if they leave it out of the final version. Bioware, if you're listening and you're inclined to do the same for ME3, DLC to open that longed-for romance for all three games would not go unappreciated. Especially for those of us console ME'ers without the ability to implement a third-party mod.

That said, probably the best option for the games as released would be a completely new character in ME3 that allowed for m/m. Foe Yay could be an interesting option, with friendly or not-so-friendly rivalry; it could develop into a romance a number of different ways. I don't know anything about the books, so I'm neutral about Hendel; though I'm not certain how likely the writers would be to throw in an established character from the books. As long as the character is well written and the dialogue is decent, it's all good.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 09 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...
I mostly agree with you except the whole "unfair" bit. Truth be told even if there's another MM option it still wouldn't be fair because any straight or lesbian Shep could have had a relationship throughout the trilogy. So that argument means very little to me. Actually the fact that M!Shep and Kaidan would go from close friends to lovers in a longer period would endear the relationship to me and place them on nearly the same level as a romantic F!Shep x Kaidan relationship.

Then again that's just me. The game doesn't necessarily need to be patched, there's nothing wrong with friendship/admiration turning into love in the last game.

Then again that's a staple of the rivals turned lover trope. They don't go from rivals straight to lovers. Tends to be rivals, friends THEN lovers. But this is all YMMV.

That would still require seperate dialogue though. Our biggest defense against the people accusing us of wanting special treatment and special use of resources is that the dialogue was exactly the same in the modded scenes.
New dialogue solely to provide background to Kaidan/M.Shep or Ashley/F.Shep would be directly against our own defense.

[Wittand25]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...
I mostly agree with you except the whole "unfair" bit. Truth be told even if there's another MM option it still wouldn't be fair because any straight or lesbian Shep could have had a relationship throughout the trilogy. So that argument means very little to me. Actually the fact that M!Shep and Kaidan would go from close friends to lovers in a longer period would endear the relationship to me and place them on nearly the same level as a romantic F!Shep x Kaidan relationship.

Then again that's just me. The game doesn't necessarily need to be patched, there's nothing wrong with friendship/admiration turning into love in the last game.

Then again that's a staple of the rivals turned lover trope. They don't go from rivals straight to lovers. Tends to be rivals, friends THEN lovers. But this is all YMMV.

That would still require seperate dialogue though. Our biggest defense against the people accusing us of wanting special treatment and special use of resources is that the dialogue was exactly the same in the modded scenes.
New dialogue solely to provide background to Kaidan/M.Shep or Ashley/F.Shep would be directly against our own defense.

Not really
                           " Shepard there is something that I wanted to say to you before Ilios, but back then I thought that we would have enough time to talk later and that the mission was more important. But now that I have a second chance I dont want to let it pass without confessing that my feelings for you are more than friendly "
works well enought for starting a m/m or f/f romance.
So considsering that I believe that female Shepards will get a second chance to romance him even if they have not persued the romance in ME1 there does not need to be much special dialog for the m/m-romance

But frankly my Shephard went throug such a long dryspell that he would even accept Conrad as LI so I dont really care who will be a m/m option aslong as someone is.

Modifié par Wittand25, 09 février 2010 - 07:13 .

[Akrim_Drak]

Wittand25 wrote...

But frankly my Shephard went throug such a long dryspell that he would even accept Conrad as LI so I dont really care who will be a m/m option aslong as someone is.

Hey now... I had a weird creepy stalker love/obsession thing going with Conrad! I was so BLAH when they broke him in ME2. still hoping he gets fixed.