3059 réponses à ce sujet

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Endurance_117 wrote...

So you are saying read and ready are the same word? Cool story bro

So basically you're incompetent.... o.O No i'm saying if you talk to someone who speaks in a way that says Readah, is saying the same thing as if I was to say reader. But way to grasp at something totally irrelevent to make your point. Of course not every word that uses different letters has the same meaning, but Ga and Ger is the product of how people speak, not using different words.

[Endurance_117]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigga

vs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

all the backstory you need. Two words with different meanings

From your own source: 

In practice, its use and meaning are heavily dependent on context.[1] Presently, the word **** is used more liberally among younger members[2] of all races and ethnicities in the United States,
although its use by persons not of African descent is still widely
viewed as unacceptable and hostile, even when used without intentional prejudice. In addition to African Americans, other ethnic groups[3][4] have adopted the term as part of their vernacular.
There is conflicting popular opinion on whether there is any meaningful difference between **** and **** as a spoken term.[5] Many people consider the terms to be equally pejorative, and the use of **** both in and outside African American communities remains controversial.[6] H. Lewis Smith, author of Bury that Sucka: A Scandalous Affair with the N-word, believes that "replacing the 'er' with an 'a' changes nothing other than the pronunciation"[7] and the African American Registry notes, "Brother (Brotha) and Sister (Sistah or Sista) are terms of endearment. **** was and still is a word of disrespect."[8] The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a civil rights group, condemns use of both **** and ****.[5]
Some African-Americans express considerable offense when referred to as a **** by Caucasian people, but not if they are called the same by other African-Americans, or by some other minority, as a term of endearment.[5] In this case, the term may be seen either as a symbol of brotherhood,[9] similar to the usage of the words dude and bro, and its use outside a defined social group an unwelcome cultural appropriation. Critics have derided this as a double standard.[3]
Arhotic English-speakers such as British pronounce "****" and "****" identically routinely.

The term "****, please", first used in the 1970s by comics such as Paul Mooney as "a funny punctuation in jokes about Blacks,"[10] is now heard routinely in comedy routines by African Americans. The growing use of the term is often attributed to its ubiquity in modern American hip hop music.[11][12] Examples include: hip-hop group ****z with Attitude (N.W.A.), A Tribe Called Quest's "Sucka ****", Notorious B.I.G.'s song, "The Realest ****z", The Geto Boys' "Real ****** ****", Jay-Z's "Jigga That ****" and Snoop Dogg's "For All My ****z and ****es". Ol' Dirty Bastard uses the term 76 times in his **** Please album (not including repetitions in choruses).[12] This is reflected in the term's wide use in modern American gang culture. According to a Texas Monthly article about Houston gangs, many Hispanic street gang members call each other ****h.[13]

[Justin2k]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Shepard is NOT Canonically ANYTHING. Please just...stop. If it bothers you so much don't post. Please. Its just...ugh.

So F!Shep somehow doesn't exist? So Shep can only be a renegade? So Shep can only be white? So Shep can only look like default Shep?

Seriously? Where are you getting this from? BioWare's marketing scheme evolves around your Shep being of your own creation. Without that its just Gears of War with interactive dialogue and a worse battle system.

And if ME isn't an RPG where you control your character and give him/her a personality all your own ME isn't an RPG period. There's nothing else making it an RPG EXCEPT controlling Shep. >_< 

Stop getting at me please.  I'm as entitled to my opinion as you and your minority is to yours.

ME isn't really an RPG.  Its a story.  You cannot go to a planet bioware doesnt want you to go even though its there.  You cannot kill someone bioware doesnt want you to even though they are there.  You cannot romance anyone you want, even though they are there.

Games such as oblivion let you explore the entire setting, kill who you like and while they don't include a romance option you can build your characters backstory and goals and orientation.  You cannot with Shepard.  He has a history and a past and a set group of people he/she can romance. 

The only control you have over shepard is whether it is M/F, which one of 5-6 people you romance and whether he does good deeds or bad deeds.

Most of us would hate to see gay shepard.  Most of us recognise you are a minority.   I would like the option to have Shepard go to Earth.  I live with the fact that its not part of the game.  Do the same.  And stop picking up on my posts like some gay right protestor.  Everyone has a right to an opinion.

Modifié par Justin2k, 03 février 2010 - 01:49 .

[sw33ts]

Endurance_117 wrote...

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

You obviously know nothing of the psychology of words. Take a class in it sometime

I have to agree with the other guy, they're the same word. Ending it with an a or an er is meaningless... It's like "mah' and "my" somehow being different now. They're not it's just the way the person saying it talks o.O

So you are saying read and ready are the same word? Cool story bro

Doyou even know your point anymore?  If you look up ready and read in a
dictionary.  You can see they are two different words with two different
meanings and they do not stem from the same word as far as I know.



****** both the accepted and derogatory term both come from the same word. 
It's colloquialism and also subjective.  Just because you do not find it derogatory
for someone to call you the slang nig..word does not mean I will not find it derogatory.

Anyways back on topic.  Yay m/m shep.

Modifié par sw33ts, 03 février 2010 - 01:50 .

[biddypocket]

FlyingFrankMan wrote...

How about this.
When you load your ME2 character you can change his sex, making him a transsexual.

Although I would support such an option.......how does this solve anything? Transexual =/= homosexual.

Homosexual = sexuality

Transexual = gender identity.

[FlyingFrankMan]

biddypocket wrote...

FlyingFrankMan wrote...

How about this.
When you load your ME2 character you can change his sex, making him a transsexual.

Although I would support such an option.......how does this solve anything? Transexual =/= homosexual.

Homosexual = sexuality

Transexual = gender identity.

But he can keep his penis

Modifié par FlyingFrankMan, 03 février 2010 - 01:52 .

[RyuAzai]

Justin2k wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Shepard is NOT Canonically ANYTHING. Please just...stop. If it bothers you so much don't post. Please. Its just...ugh.

So F!Shep somehow doesn't exist? So Shep can only be a renegade? So Shep can only be white? So Shep can only look like default Shep?

Seriously? Where are you getting this from? BioWare's marketing scheme evolves around your Shep being of your own creation. Without that its just Gears of War with interactive dialogue and a worse battle system.

And if ME isn't an RPG where you control your character and give him/her a personality all your own ME isn't an RPG period. There's nothing else making it an RPG EXCEPT controlling Shep. >_< 

Stop getting at me please.  I'm as entitled to my opinion as you and your minority is to yours.

ME isn't really an RPG.  Its a story.  You cannot go to a planet bioware doesnt want you to go even though its there.  You cannot kill someone bioware doesnt want you to even though they are there.  You cannot romance anyone you want, even though they are there.

Games such as oblivion let you explore the entire setting, kill who you like and while they don't include a romance option you can build your characters backstory and goals and orientation.  You cannot with Shepard.  He has a history and a past and a set group of people he/she can romance. 

The only control you have over shepard is whether it is M/F, which one of 5-6 people you romance and whether he does good deeds or bad deeds.

Most of us would hate to see gay shepard.  Most of us recognise you are a minority.   I would like the option to have Shepard go to Earth.  I live with the fact that its not part of the game.  Do the same.  And stop picking up on my posts like some gay right protestor.  Everyone has a right to an opinion.

You say everyone has a right to their opinion, and don't attack posts such as yours... But in turn you do the same? And in your view as long as their opinions line in with yours they are okay?

Just because someone wants to fight for what they believe or speak about it, doesn't give you the right to tell them to respect your opinion to disagree with you AFTER you disagree with them.

Or make radical judgements about them being a minority or describing them as a 'gay right protestor'.  What exactly do you mean by that? Do they pick at what people say in a certain way?  Is that suppose to be an unsupportive judgement or a term to show insult? Please clear this up for me.

And while you say Mass Effect isn't a RPG because you can't do this and can't do that.... In Oblivion while I can kill anyone I want, if I kill someone that is criual to the story they can't do.  They just get knocked out.  In the previous game you'd have to reload or not be able to finish the game.

In Oblivion you can go everywhere, but can't go back to other places in the world.  Oh no you can only go to the certain provience you want.  You can't go back to Morrowind.  Even IF you wanted.

By this logic it should make Oblivion not a rpg, and that character you made not yours but the creators of the game?

My point is, video games are ALL limited.  You can't do EVERYTHING.  But the freedom over your character creation is usually what describes a rpg(Even this can be agrued though.)

[Justin2k]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

You know what? Fine. YOUR Shep is a straight, white, male.

Mine is a black female who is in a lesbian relationship with Liara.

MY Shep isn't any less valid than yours regardless of what you say.

Can we agree about that? 

Certainly it's just as valid and we have got off to the wrong foot and I apologise.

I have nothing against homosexuality.  If Shepard was bisexual in ME1 then I wouldn't care if he/she was throughout the series.  But I personally feel that it just doesn't logically make sense to include that now when we've all gotten used to his/her character.  Asides from DA: O I cannot really think of any RPGs that include gay relationships.  I just don't understand why there is the huge thing about making Shepard gay.  There are just some things in the game that you are limited on and cannot do, this is just one of them.  Its not Bioware being homophobic or anything.

Modifié par Justin2k, 03 février 2010 - 02:00 .

[FlyingFrankMan]

Yeah video games are all limited, when you choose Shepard's face you can't put a penis on his face can you

[Justin2k]

RyuAzai wrote...
You say everyone has a right to their opinion, and don't attack posts such as yours... But in turn you do the same? And in your view as long as their opinions line in with yours they are okay?

I was angry that everytime i posted an opinion it was being picked apart.  But yes, I was wrong, thanks for pointing that out.  There is no place for intolerance on these forums and I am sorry.

[biddypocket]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...


Certainly it's just as valid and we have got off to the wrong foot and I apologise.

I have nothing against homosexuality.  If Shepard was bisexual in ME1 then I wouldn't care if he/she was throughout the series.  But I personally feel that it just doesn't logically make sense to include that now when we've all gotten used to his/her character.  Asides from DA: O I cannot really think of any RPGs that include gay relationships.  I just don't understand why there is the huge thing about making Shepard gay.  There are just some things in the game that you are limited on and cannot do, this is just one of them.  Its not Bioware being homophobic or anything.

Its fine. But you're still getting the idea that having LIs automatically means people went after them. They didn't. One could just decide to the 3rd game to finally find someone attractive towards them that returns their feelings. To me anyway. One of my Shep's uses a mod that enabled the M!Shep x Kaiden romance. So he is gay and in a relationship.

Not to mention that, if you played as a femaleshep, she could have been bi (We're not getting into the Asari gender debate....wiki says they're female, bioware confirms them as female, they're female. Lesbians. The end).

[RyuAzai]

Justin2k wrote...

RyuAzai wrote...
You say everyone has a right to their opinion, and don't attack posts such as yours... But in turn you do the same? And in your view as long as their opinions line in with yours they are okay?

I was angry that everytime i posted an opinion it was being picked apart.  But yes, I was wrong, thanks for pointing that out.  There is no place for intolerance on these forums and I am sorry.

I think it is just what we perceive Shepard, as what is cannon.

To be honest yes when I think of Shepard I think of White, male, and straight.  Though that is also my Shepard.

I have to go beyond that though, and since bioware has given the opinion that they isn't the only case, that my shepard isn't going to be cannon.

THough I will give you they make it confusing! By using their default shepard!  In ads and everything.  

An another note, these are also usually very emotional issues for people because of their experiences.  Everyone should be able to cast their opinion, without fear of being attacked.

Though in turn one has to believe that if they post someone that disagrees with something someone else posts, they other person will take their post and use it to point out how it disagrees and how they can disagree with them in turn and defend themselves

[NeoGuardian86]

disbarring my real world opinions.

in terms of ingame.

this is supposed to be the gamer's Shepherd.
I've always kind of thought of the Liara as the 'gay' choice. Sure she looks female, but when you really think about it the Asari are really a mono-gender.

However i can let that slide if we got gay members who say 'that doesn't count'.

If it came out in the the finale, that there was a new recuirtable character that could 'possibly' gay?
I wouldn't be against that.
I mean Dragon Age had characters for that demographic.

[Axis Swordarm]

Though this thread is quickly spiraling off topic, I need to step in.



There's a lot of ignorance on every thread regarding this and though it's hard for myself to get into the mindset of someone who feels same sex characters somehow degrade their play experience I can understand how conclusions are reached. It's important to say first and foremost that there is no gay agenda, I've seen posts about ramming the gay down peoples throats and I've seen simple two sentence responses that are outright prejudiced. This isn't an attempt to hammer sexuality in someones face, it's viewed by gay or bi people as something that is just normal; there is nothing sexual or seedy about relationships, you can love someone and not sleep with them.



I don't find certain women attractive, I don't find many guys attractive I still enjoy the romances in Mass Effect as a nice bit of story progression. But I can find something to relate to there, ME is an emotional series and it's only to be expected that people want to reach that deeper level of connection that many on these boards experience.



With Mass Effect there was an opportunity to normalize things, to turn the issue into acceptance. I personally wouldn't have delved into a same sex relationship because as I say I don't find many guys attractive and then it's an intellectual attachment with my tastes so narrow I've only dated a few males.



That's what people are disappointed about on one level, the opportunity for a gay gamer to play an emotionally engaging experience such as Mass Effect and get the full experience as well as not feeling marginalized or catered to specifically. There is no gay standard, they're people and people are different, Shepard could be 90 miles out of straight town and you'd never know. The reason so many masculine guys aren't out is because sociological factors lock them down, cripple them and that is why an outlet like Mass Effect has such a lure.



Imagine living your life and never being able to say to your friends what you and your beloved did over the weekend, that is what being gay is. The moment it comes up the subject turns to pushing sexuality down straight folks throats, when it's a case of acceptance and desire to live a life without judgment.



In gaming terms this means that the thousand and one ways in which the gaming community seeks to victimize anything that deviates from straight white male are incredibly harmful and Mass Effect could have been ridiculously positive. It would be saying it's ok to be who you are and you can be this galaxy saving hero and still love who you want to love.



Time and complexity for sure are factors in why it doesn't exist, I can even take the view that Shepard is straight as a character. But when you play him as your own it has attachment beyond someone like Wrex or Joker, he is your creation and you carve his path, it's totally understandable and not something crazy that people want this. Why it isn't there has been explained as time constraints and that is fair enough, the recorded dialogue shows there was a commitment to it and that actually makes me happy that the world is moving toward acceptance behind the scenes.



As for the discussion early of feminizing Shepard, you're thinking of gender and that is totally different. The assumption that only straight guys are real men is equally ludicrous, I'm 6'6'' tall, used to play rugby and am as masculine as you can get, I work in gaming and have just started working the old punching bag and I'm openly bi. Making calls like those is what is so harmful and keeps people like myself in suffering and silence while the ignorant, or closeted themselves due to such views, dehumanize us and it is something you truly should be ashamed of because it literally causes people to take their own lives.



Words hurt, many straight, white males especially online don't get this and those who are subjects who encourage them with lines like "I'm black and people should get over it" or "I'm gay and I don't mind being called a ****" misunderstand the depth of pain it causes not outright but by turning people into the other.



In summary, it would have been a beautiful and rare thing that showed gaming is truly more cutting edge than TV and films with a gay protagonist who isn't a stereotype but just a hero who likes guys, but is a missed opportunity and though the desire for it is likely not going to be reciprocated by Bioware this time, the fact dialogue was recorded gives me hope for future games.

[Justin2k]

I think my main issue with it is why?



I mean I can understand that some gay players wouldn't want to do the straight relationships. But lets be honest, I am straight, and I don't fall in love with the characters, find the scenes arousing or anything. Its just part of the game. I played the gay option in DA:O because you could do all at once and I'm comfortable enough with myself not to care about it.



But not everything needs to be gay/bisexual/black/disabled is more my point. I.e soap opera a in england is planning a lesbian relationship. They have set the background up for months and its realistic and natural that these two girls will end up together. Soap opera b decided they couldnt be outdone and threw 2 random girls together who were both straight and literally decided "fed up of boys now". Their storyline is tacky, stupid and an insult to my lesbian friends.



Surely it would be better for a game to have a gay/bisexual character who is well written, well thought out and planned that way than just to have a scene tacked on to appease protesters and the gay gaming community. Thats just my thought. I don't see the need for it in Mass Effect. But then I am not gay, so perhaps if I was my stance would be different, although I feel it probably wouldn't be.



I would personally lobby for game developers to bear in mind the gay market in future (as they have in DA:O) and deliver quality, than change something that is already pretty much set (as far as in game options goes).

[FlyingFrankMan]

Modifié par FlyingFrankMan, 03 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[FlyingFrankMan]

Modifié par FlyingFrankMan, 03 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[FlyingFrankMan]

Is everyone gay here?

[Axis Swordarm]

Justin2k wrote...

I think my main issue with it is why?

The bigger question is, why not?

Trying to shoe horn gay people into shows or series ends up in stereotypes, this is what causes the sensation that every gay person is a copy.  That everyone who has ever loved someone of their same gender is either a bull ****** or an effeminate angel wing wearing dancer. 

The themes and scope of Mass Effect, let alone the emotional investment offered a clear doorway to something new and fresh, exciting and truly artistic in that it breaks boundries.  This isn't a gay character, this is your character and it would rightfully be lauded.  Shepard would be Shepard, his personality wouldn't change, he or she would be the gruff wonderful character we still know but they would be richer for people who want to be accepted.

It wouldn't mean the game changes in anyway for omeone playing it now.  On some level I feel that Shepard doens't have those options because he's a gruff, tough fighting machine and it was felt that offering him the chance to have a relationship with Kaiden would damage that image, in many ways it parallels with real life for many gay people and instead of being liberating creates another level of frustration.

He can be happy with a woman for show, but his true feelings in the mind of the player aren't going to come to fruition.  It isn't about sex, it's about empathy and understanding, something Mass Effect generates in spades and as such attracts such discussions which is to its credit.