3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Mikka-chan]

Endurance_117 wrote...
See, the problem with this is **** and ****got were not originally derogatory terms

**** was always a derogatory term

Matter a fact, my friend who is homosexual uses **** all the time. **** can never be replaced since the times of slavery.

The N word, actually, was not always used as a derogatory, just as 'gay' or the f word that is not four letters long were not always derogatory.  (See such books as  '****: The Strange Career
of a Troublesome Word',  and various other articles that you'll find referenced through there... or just follow the roots, even past the Spanish.)   I don't think that has much to do with the topic, but misinformation isn't good when it comes to words of that kind: know them for what they were and what they are, so we can better fight their casual use and not have to deal with such insults.

I wish that there were romance options for a male character who likes other males.  I don't see much point in making an arguement about it, although I hope Bioware is and will pay attention to those who are speaking out.  It is great that Bioware's games are so progressive, and I wish that they will keep up the trend of being progressive and welcoming of all rather then not having such options.   No, I do not believe Bioware should be forced to have a m/m romance in their game and that they are monsters for not doing so, but I do believe that is good that everyone can speak their mind, and I hope people hoping for a m/m romance get what they wish for just as those hoping to romance Tali or Garrus got what they wished for.

[Axis Swordarm]

FlyingFrankMan wrote...

Is everyone gay here?

You'll never know, as long as people treat it as a joke or something to argue over without rhyme or reason.  People aren't asking for an all singing all dancing fabulous Shepard, they're looking at what could have been with regards to the series and its importance on an artistic level if the opportunity for a completely non stereotypical gay protagonist existed.

You might laugh at it on youtube, but for many people such a chance would be meaningful and moving.

[biddypocket]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

FlyingFrankMan wrote...

Is everyone gay here?

You'll never know, as long as people treat it as a joke or something to argue over without rhyme or reason.  People aren't asking for an all singing all dancing fabulous Shepard, they're looking at what could have been with regards to the series and its importance on an artistic level if the opportunity for a completely non stereotypical gay protagonist existed.

You might laugh at it on youtube, but for many people such a chance would be meaningful and moving.

Amen. Shalom. Salam alaikum. Hip-hip-hooray.

Modifié par biddypocket, 03 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Jimbe2693]

I'd have a gay romance with Kaidan, or atleast a strong bromance

[Atmosfear3]

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

[RyuAzai]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

I can't imagine you having an intellectual conversation.

Though I agree a lot with what Axis swordman is saying.

And to the person asking if people are gay, I think it stems from the idea that "Oh everyone in here is a minority and they are gay and agrueing for what they want" (I could be really wrong heer though)

When I think lots of people would be very surprised to find people attracted to the opposite sex very fiercly defending those that make these topics.  Because that is what they believe is right.

You do have to be something, or live someone's pain, to know that it is right or wrong.  Or to feel your own passion for others and their struggles.

Modifié par RyuAzai, 03 février 2010 - 02:35 .

[Axis Swordarm]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

This is the single most damaging post in the thread so far.  It perpetuates stereotypes and is either troll bait that I'm snapping at hungrily like a red snapper on rations or truly misses the point.

Shepard wouldn't change, he'd be the same guy he's always been and that is why it would be positive so posts such as this one have no fuel.  The belief that being gay or romantically involved with someone of the same sex means a sudden shift in personality is harmful, the rugby players who have recently come out have heart breaking stories and they are as masculine as you can get. 

Gay people do not equal a quantifiable culture, they are each unique and the measure of a man is not how he loves, who he loves but that he loves at all.  

[Jimbe2693]

I think the homophobes are just trying to hide their sexuality



We will have gay shepard, no matter the cost...

[RyuAzai]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

This is the single most damaging post in the thread so far.  It perpetuates stereotypes and is either troll bait that I'm snapping at hungrily like a red snapper on rations or truly misses the point.

Shepard wouldn't change, he'd be the same guy he's always been and that is why it would be positive so posts such as this one have no fuel.  The belief that being gay or romantically involved with someone of the same sex means a sudden shift in personality is harmful, the rugby players who have recently come out have heart breaking stories and they are as masculine as you can get. 

Gay people do not equal a quantifiable culture, they are each unique and the measure of a man is not how he loves, who he loves but that he loves at all.  

This is just a Theory, and I wanted to see how you feel on it Axis Swordarm(Beyond Ryuuichi I see you as thinking in similiar ways that I do)

Beyond humans in general fearing what is different and change,  one theory why males may hate or fear other males that love males more then females is the fear of power.

The fear that this male has the power to 'take you' if you want to. That he desires others of the same sex so if you lose to him he shall take you.  This also is linked to the male struggle of being the one with the power, the 'head of the house hold' in most stereotypes.

I believe this fear is ridiclious, but the instincts in it seem sound.  As almost all hate comes from fear or lack of understanding.  

Then again this is just another theory to explain why someone could hate someone so much for something that will never effect them in anyway. Only if they let it.

[BrianWilly]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

Being gay does not equate to being effete.

Can you also not imagine a lesbian Shepard giving the same speech?  Because she does.

The amount of people saying things like "I don't think Shepard would feel right if he was gay" is hilarious.  It's like they've somehow completely blocked the lesbian option from ME1 from their minds.  There is already an option to make Shepard a lesbian.  That Shepard exists.  She doesn't stop existing just because you pretend really hard.

[FlyingFrankMan]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

FlyingFrankMan wrote...

Is everyone gay here?

You'll never know, as long as people treat it as a joke or something to argue over without rhyme or reason.  People aren't asking for an all singing all dancing fabulous Shepard, they're looking at what could have been with regards to the series and its importance on an artistic level if the opportunity for a completely non stereotypical gay protagonist existed.

You might laugh at it on youtube, but for many people such a chance would be meaningful and moving.

Sorry

[RyuAzai]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

RyuAzai wrote...

Axis Swordarm wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I can't imagine a fairy shepard saving the galaxy and giving a tough-guy speech to rally his team.

This is the single most damaging post in the thread so far.  It perpetuates stereotypes and is either troll bait that I'm snapping at hungrily like a red snapper on rations or truly misses the point.

Shepard wouldn't change, he'd be the same guy he's always been and that is why it would be positive so posts such as this one have no fuel.  The belief that being gay or romantically involved with someone of the same sex means a sudden shift in personality is harmful, the rugby players who have recently come out have heart breaking stories and they are as masculine as you can get. 

Gay people do not equal a quantifiable culture, they are each unique and the measure of a man is not how he loves, who he loves but that he loves at all.  

This is just a Theory, and I wanted to see how you feel on it Axis Swordarm(Beyond Ryuuichi I see you as thinking in similiar ways that I do)

Beyond humans in general fearing what is different and change,  one theory why males may hate or fear other males that love males more then females is the fear of power.

The fear that this male has the power to 'take you' if you want to. That he desires others of the same sex so if you lose to him he shall take you.  This also is linked to the male struggle of being the one with the power, the 'head of the house hold' in most stereotypes.

I believe this fear is ridiclious, but the instincts in it seem sound.  As almost all hate comes from fear or lack of understanding.  

Then again this is just another theory to explain why someone could hate someone so much for something that will never effect them in anyway. Only if they let it.

Interesting. Explains prison rape for one thing.

But I'm not overly good at pschology and sociology I'm afraid. So it sounding sensible and valid to me probably means nothing in the wrong run.

Well, research has come to the conclusion that rape isn't about sex nor is it about pleasure(In a physical means)

It is about power, vioence, and domiance over another human being.   It is one of the most damaging thing you can do to someone, hurting them while pleasing yourself.

The theory borrows from that in ways.

[RyuAzai]

No, I understand exactly what you mean by that now

[BrianWilly]

RyuAzai wrote...

This is just a Theory, and I wanted to see how you feel on it Axis Swordarm(Beyond Ryuuichi I see you as thinking in similiar ways that I do)

Beyond humans in general fearing what is different and change,  one theory why males may hate or fear other males that love males more then females is the fear of power.

The fear that this male has the power to 'take you' if you want to. That he desires others of the same sex so if you lose to him he shall take you.  This also is linked to the male struggle of being the one with the power, the 'head of the house hold' in most stereotypes.

I believe this fear is ridiclious, but the instincts in it seem sound.  As almost all hate comes from fear or lack of understanding.  

Then again this is just another theory to explain why someone could hate someone so much for something that will never effect them in anyway. Only if they let it.

A very major element that seems to factor into homophobia is the idea that somehow just being around gay people is going to turn you gay.  This was (and remains) the loudest rallying cries for all the "PROTECT OUR CHILDREN" groups throughout the gay marriage debates.  They would, whether they truly believed it or not, perpetuate the fear that simply allowing homosexuality would start turning straight people gay.

You can unfortunately see a lot of this attitude in these forums as well.  How many responses have we seen just in this thread alone from people who claim that, if there were a gay option, evidently they would simply have NO CHOICE, apparently they just wouldn't able to RESTRAIN THEMSELVES from clicking all the gay dialogue paths? "If there was a gay option, my Shepard would turn gay!!" I mean, it's silly and it's funny when you say it out loud like that, but people honestly believe this.  They simply cannot process the "option" portion of the phrase "gay option," because the prevailing fear that has been driven into them by the right wing is that there is no "option." For them, there is no middle ground, it's black and white.  If you acknowledge gay people you are acknowledging that you are gay.  If you like gay people it means you're gay.  If you support them it means you are ON THEIR SIDE which means that you are ONE OF THEM NOW, OH NO.

I mean, I swear to Buddha, this is what people actually believe and teach their children.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 03 février 2010 - 03:08 .

[Axis Swordarm]

RyuAzai wrote...

This is just a Theory, and I wanted to see how you feel on it Axis Swordarm(Beyond Ryuuichi I see you as thinking in similiar ways that I do)

There's a wealth that could be added to this, but I think it strays off topic a touch as it is a very deep philosophical discussion that goes down so many paths, as interesting as it is.

Sociological factors are huge in deciding how people express themselves and definitely the fear angle is valid, but I'd personally say that power is another factor.  It is easier for someone to assume that thing are black and white, society has decreed that being gay is being weak and so people want to be viewed as strong, being strong is most easily shown through vindictiveness or through the act of disinterest and casual degradation.

Compassion is harder, because being compassionate is part of being weak to the mindset of those who have rigid world views.  Empathy is not something that is welcome.  Creating the Other is important in this and that comes through fear and power, you fear the Other, you want to be superior to the Other and you also want them to be strong as to make it righteous for you to hold any view you wish.

So gay people are simultaneously terrifying, almighty in their ability to "convert" and yet weak and feminine to the patriarchal society we have.  It requires either a huge will to believe such things or a total lack of desire to understand because you want to be powerful and that requires you to remain ignorant and casual in how you view the Other.

The fear shows here in that people disparage those who want to feel attachment to their character and request it, because if any game makes sense and would break boundries it would be one such as ME, where the character is clearly defined and heroic with a full personality that you can influence.  Making them gay wouldn't alter that at all but it would break stereotypes down.

Why is that fear shown?  In this thread it come sup in the view that gays are both weak, effete and "fairies" while also a powerful force with an agenda that threatens the fabric of society.  It is a fascist outlook in that the enemy has to be both invincible and able to threaten the powerful while also feeble and easily beaten. 

Modifié par Axis Swordarm, 03 février 2010 - 03:09 .

[Axis Swordarm]

Just a note, I don't mean fascism in the totally political sense, though that is how it works (Fascism can never win wars because it has to both underestimate and overestimate the enemy, so the quote goes). I don't want anyone assuming I'm making a political statement there as this thread has done a good job of avoiding politics and religion, and the discussion works far better for it.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Why does everyone hate straight white males T_T I feel so discriminated against because i'm not allowed to understand anyones pain

Modifié par SorrowAndJoy7, 03 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[RyuAzai]

Of course.



And I admit, I do stray off topic in many ideas .



For my part all the arguments people have highlighted people of used( And some people have used) Are many of the same arguments that people have used against any group or change that comes through humanity.



I hate calling the idea of being attracted to the same sex as 'change' though, as it is not one in the least. It has been around as long as we have been. And I guess change should apply to peoples perception and what we are raised to believe.



And to move back to my point, if I have lost it, these are many of the same words used against many people fighting to be treated just the same as others.



And in all those case until now we have found those arguments to be invalid and wrong. I just wish people could hurry and find that light as people have in the past.(As long as it took)

[BrianWilly]

I love straight white males...