3059 réponses à ce sujet

[biddypocket]

Ninja Mage wrote...



I'm sorry Kaiden just seemed like he was dying for the c*&^! He even had that cute cowlick on his head and he was sooo cute. My black shep wants Kaiden ;_:

Who doesn't want Kaiden? Adorable...

Andddddd what the HELL happened to this thread?! It's like after I went to sleep, everyone magically became friends, banded together, and started using logic...well, most of us. Awesome. Keep it up!

[La Sangreal]

I would prefer the same-sex romances to be unique, and not just the normal 'I like you' stuff you get from the normal ones. I want the person being romanced to hate Shepard for making them feel controversial emotions. I want a squadmate who despises Shepard for pursuing a same-sex relationship. Maybe their homophobic nature brings them to the point where they try to kill Shepard. I want conflict! I want emotion! Two things I found lacking in ME2.

[Arik7]

La Sangreal wrote...

I would prefer the same-sex romances to be unique, and not just the normal 'I like you' stuff you get from the normal ones. I want the person being romanced to hate Shepard for making them feel controversial emotions. I want a squadmate who despises Shepard for pursuing a same-sex relationship. Maybe their homophobic nature brings them to the point where they try to kill Shepard. I want conflict! I want emotion! Two things I found lacking in ME2.

Sounds interesting, but would people still have hang ups about same-sex relationships in the late 22nd century? Unlikely.    Your idea would be more appropriate for the times of Dragon Age.

[FataliTensei]

More deep dialoge options in general would be nice, perhaps even differing relationship dynamics based on the conversation options chosen.

[Mirandalia]

The same options that existed in ME1 and DA:O should have been made available in ME2 and must definitely be brought back to ME3.

[Arcane Hunter_]

Huzzah for this thread

[RyuAzai]

To be honest, for the talk of a Joker romance, I mean I love Seth Green. But as far as sex appeal goes....



I mean robot chicken is awesome! And family is great! But appeal...



Lots of his movies were really funny! He seems like a wicked funny person in panels too! But...



If you get where I am going with this

[Justin2k]

See now you are talking about romance with minor NPC's or better romances than the straight ones. Where as i thought the issue was having a gay romance at all?  In truth the issue is that you want equality with the straight demographic and would still complain if you were given one gay romance.  In DA: O they gave a gay romance and a lesbian romance option. And there were still threads complaining "why isn't alistair gay?" "why isn't morrana gay?"

The answer is simply that not everyone is gay. I heard between 2% and 9% of people are gay. Of that how many play games? Of that how many would play a shooter rpg set in space?

These threads are mostly made of the same people posting multiple times.  It may seem that there is a huge group clamouring for this to happen because whenever more than 10 people agree on something in a forum they seem like a majority.  In reality gay gamers probably account for less than 1% of Biowares demographic. And yet you want them to devote as much time, money and resources for you as they do to the 90-95% straight male gamers (some of you feel they should devote more), It just isn't going to happen.

Trust me, if 90-95% of customers were gay then every single character would be gay and there wouldn't be any straight romances. But it really is a niche group and you would be as lucky to get one gay romance as for them to integrate a realistic character with speech impediments. There is not equality in games because there is not a big enough gay market.

Isn't a gay-bashing post by the way.  I know you want equality but no matter how many times you post in this thread you are a still a very very small minority.  A vocal one but a minority none the less.  Every gay customer is as valid as every straight customer.  But companies need to market to target audiences, of which gay customers make up a very small number in this instance compared to straight customers.  Its not homophobic, its just business sense.  There would be more people sign a petition to give Tali lightsabers in ME3 than to have a gay romance. 

Modifié par Justin2k, 03 février 2010 - 04:53 .

[BrianWilly]

Justin2k wrote...

There is not equality in games because there is not a big enough gay market.

What about the notion that there is not a big enough gay market because there is not equality in games?

If it's all about business, then why the Liara romance in ME1? Why have gay options in incredibly popular and profitable games like DA: O, Fable I & II, the Sims, and so forth? It has never once hurt any game company's business.

Because at some point artistic and dramatic design has to enter the equation as well, beyond the pure business. Bioware themselves opened the door...with Liara, with their other games, with their emphasis on choice and relationships and character-based decision making, with them proudly touting themselves as a company that doesn't shy away from controversy. There's a reason no one's clamoring for Bungie to turn Master Chief gay.  Well, that's hyperbole; I suppose there must be someone out there someone clamoring for Master Chief to be gay.

In any case, for them to do that all that, and then to put six romance options in ME2 with a marked lack of homosexuality, feels deliberately exclusionary. It is deliberately exclusionary.  If straight male gamers are the only audience, then why are there an equal amount of romance options for straight women in this game?...after all, I'd say women are at least nearly as much a minority in gaming as gays are.  Why have a female Shepard at all, then?

Because of artistic merit.  Because of dramatic impetus.  Because the design concept behind this game was "your Shepard, your choices." I don't think it should be a matter of, oh, we want to force them to devote as much time to gays as they do to straights...rather, it should just be a matter of devoting time to craft good romances options...that include their gay audience, which Bioware obviously has. 

On a separate note, I'm pretty sure the gay Alistair/Morrigan camp isn't meant to be taken that seriously, and they themselves know it. For every one person lamenting that those characters aren't same-sex options, there's a dozen more praising DA: O for its inclusion and acknowledgment of gay romance.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 03 février 2010 - 05:22 .

[Justin2k]

My point is more that it is a very small minority of people who are gay, and even smaller who play something like ME.  If someone is gay they probably go to gay clubs, watch gay media and hang out with other gay people so it probably doesn't feel like a minority.  But if you are not in that circle then really it is a very small group compared to the amount of straight people in the world (and especially in gaming).   I know more people with speech impediments, more black people and more wheelchair bound people (i work in a hospital) than I do gay people for example. 

Regarding Liara, I think its more the asexual alien fantasy (which ties in well with the game) than a bisexual advocation.  Bear in mind Liara gave both sexes the same amount of options.  I don't think it was considered a lesbian relationship by the developers (the character admits to being neither male nor female), although I maybe wrong.

Regarding the comment about if more companies included gay relationships then more gay people would play, then you are correct but bear in mind that there are limited numbers they can attract with this feature.  What would attract more people to ME3 for example, gay relationships or PVP on Xbox live?  Not suggesting they should do that, but I expect the latter would attract far more customers.

I don't think it would hurt sales to include a gay relationship, I just feel there are better ways to use their resources to improve the game for the majority of their customers (including the gay market in other ways than relationships), rather than a small percentage.  I think if they did include gay romance it would need to be one character only and not neccessarily a major character (as what they did with DA:O) and not the entire cast as seems to be what the gay market wants, simply because the percentage of people interested simply wouldn't warrant the time/cost of implementing it.

Modifié par Justin2k, 03 février 2010 - 06:09 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Justin2k wrote...

See now you are talking about romance with minor NPC's or better romances than the straight ones. Where as i thought the issue was having a gay romance at all?  In truth the issue is that you want equality with the straight demographic and would still complain if you were given one gay romance.  In DA: O they gave a gay romance and a lesbian romance option. And there were still threads complaining "why isn't alistair gay?" "why isn't morrana gay?"

When was anyone talking about romancing a minor NPC?
If you mean Joker then uhm... frak. no spoilers. Minor is.... not a correct adjective.
The joker talk was mostly us goofing around. superserious thread gets too superserious sometimes.
Please do not assume to know some sort of big secret truth about anyones argument, it's a failure of logical thinking. We do indeed just want a gay romance option. It doesn't matter who it is. Yes, we all have characters that we would prefer romancing but that applies to straight players too.
Would some people still be disappointed? Probably. I never liked Zev and never romanced him in DAO but I was still just happy that the option was there.

The answer is simply that not everyone is gay. I heard between 2% and 9% of people are gay. Of that how many play games? Of that how many would play a shooter rpg set in space?

These threads are mostly made of the same people posting multiple times.  It may seem that there is a huge group clamouring for this to happen because whenever more than 10 people agree on something in a forum they seem like a majority.  In reality gay gamers probably account for less than 1% of Biowares demographic. And yet you want them to devote as much time, money and resources for you as they do to the 90-95% straight male gamers (some of you feel they should devote more), It just isn't going to happen.

A valid argument if it was only the gay male players who wanted it. There are, as evident from this thread alone, plenty of heterosexual females who want the same option. Not to mention lesbians, bisexuals or either sex, and the straight male players who think it's a good idea even if they wouldn't play their Shep as gay.
I don't know just how many people post on these forums on a regular basis, but the Fight for the Love group has 173 members now. Not all of them are gay and not everyone who supports the option is a member of the group so at best it's a percentage of the population that supports the inclusion of a same sex romance.

Isn't a gay-bashing post by the way.  I know you want equality but no matter how many times you post in this thread you are a still a very very small minority.  A vocal one but a minority none the less.  Every gay customer is as valid as every straight customer.  But companies need to market to target audiences, of which gay customers make up a very small number in this instance compared to straight customers.  Its not homophobic, its just business sense.  There would be more people sign a petition to give Tali lightsabers in ME3 than to have a gay romance. 

Vocal minorities get their voices heard quite often actually, but that's not the bit I really want to address.
The gay market is a strong one in just about any industry actually. I believe it was the Rand group that had put together consumer research data showing that GLBT consumers were more likely to be brand-loyal and more likely to upsell a brand to their friends and family even if it's not a product they use themselves.
Just because a huge gay market doesn't exist (it never will be default of gays being a minority...), it doesn't mean it shouldn't be courted. Look at Budweiser. It would easily be argued that the beer market is dominated by straight males. Yet Budweiser has found a loyal following in the gay community due to it's business and marketing practices.
A recent UCSF consumer study (can't find the bloody link right now, will edit when i do) that was looking at the effectiveness of gay advertising found that the GLBT consumer market was the least hit by the recession.
It also found that gay-targeted advertising doesn't work very much. Instead businesses best court a GLBT audience by demonstrating inclusive business practices.

The simple fact is that the GLBT market is a good one to court even if it's not a major part of your target audience. Why? Because gay consumers pay attention to these things and they remember the companies that prove themselves inclusive. Word-of-mouth is one of the best things a company can generate and the GLBT market is one of the most talkative.

[LyonVanguard]

instead of making a gay shepherd, Bioware should make a toolset for the pc. That way the modders can take care of stuff like that which Bioware as a company wouldn't feel comfortable doing.
Its still odd why they make a gay female but not a gay male.

[JamesMoriarty123]

The OP said it would be simple, lol. Aside from the reams of extra dialogue that would need recording.

I 2nd the 2nd poster, Shepherd is NOT a fruit.

I'm not homophobic in the slightest, it just irritates me that people think it SHOULD be an option. No, it shouldn't.

[Justin2k]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

A valid argument if it was only the gay male players who wanted it. There are, as evident from this thread alone, plenty of heterosexual females who want the same option.

There.

"Evident from this thread alone."
"Plenty".

Thats the problem.  Forum threads are no way of guaging public interest.  Because the people posting on forums are a huge minority.  So many people play games that never touch forums.

Go to WoW forums.  See how many mages complain about their class.  There are 2 million registered WoW mages.  Their whole forum is people complaining.  But their forum is 200 or so mages out of 2 million.  So you could say 1 million, 8 hundred thousand and 800 mages are perfectly happy.

Its the same here.  There is 3 threads of gay people and females wanting gay relationships.  In total the amount of unique posters advocating this is less than 100.  Go and see the ME sales figures and work out a percentage and tell me if it really is "plenty" of people who have asked for this feature.

As I said.  Vocal minority.  If you hang out with people with the same opinions as yourself, you feel that your opinion is the right one.  But there are so many people out there that differ.

I don't care if there is a gay relationship or not.  But I'd rather they spent their time doing something that would benefit every player and not 1% of them.

Modifié par Justin2k, 03 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Endurance_117]

LyonVanguard wrote...

instead of making a gay shepherd, Bioware should make a toolset for the pc. That way the modders can take care of stuff like that which Bioware as a company wouldn't feel comfortable doing.
Its still odd why they make a gay female but not a gay male.

Because the Asari don't care who they mate with, they have no male in their species

[BlameTheMessenger]

Mass effect is not a COMPLETE roleplaying game. You are still SHEPARD and shepard is a mothereffin' badass. How would it make him look penetrating ass with Jacob or Thane.... or grunt...

[Skemte]

Don't see why not, Dragon Age Origins had that option afterall.

[Ninja Mage]

We've already discussed that **** Blame the Messenger. You know what screw it. I'm just making a fem shep and giving you all the finger!!! lol

[Endurance_117]

Skemte wrote...

Don't see why not, Dragon Age Origins had that option afterall.

Dragon Age =/= Mass Effect

[Skemte]

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Mass effect is not a COMPLETE roleplaying game. You are still SHEPARD and shepard is a mothereffin' badass. How would it make him look penetrating ass with Jacob or Thane.... or grunt...

  One of the meanest and most feared defensive linemen came out to say he was gay when he finally retired like 5 years back or so.. Being gay doesn't some how mean you are a sissy, there are gays in the US military that are amazing soldiers..    Though I am not gay myself, I find the ignorance and overall bigotry of this thread hilarious.. 

[BlameTheMessenger]

Yes but DAO was a different game... DAO was a classic style RPG game.. There was more conversation options and more choices and stuff... ME doesn't really compare to DAO, cause in DAO you are your OWN char right from the start where as with Shepard.. There is basically two chars.. Good guy or ****... None of the character choices is gay

[YakoHako]

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Mass effect is not a COMPLETE roleplaying game. You are still SHEPARD and shepard is a mothereffin' badass. How would it make him look penetrating ass with Jacob or Thane.... or grunt...

Oh, I forgot that everyone that isn't a straight white male is highly inferior and weak.

[Skemte]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Skemte wrote...

Don't see why not, Dragon Age Origins had that option afterall.

Dragon Age =/= Mass Effect

  Do tell me why there wouldn't be a gay relationship in Mass Effect as opposed to Dragon Age Origins.. Both are made by the same company, both were mass marketed on multiple platforms (even more then Mass Effect)..  Why do people care about this request to begin with? Thats whats bothering me, are people this bigoted or are they just trolling?

[BlameTheMessenger]

Skemte wrote...

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Mass effect is not a COMPLETE roleplaying game. You are still SHEPARD and shepard is a mothereffin' badass. How would it make him look penetrating ass with Jacob or Thane.... or grunt...

  One of the meanest and most feared defensive linemen came out to say he was gay when he finally retired like 5 years back or so.. Being gay doesn't some how mean you are a sissy, there are gays in the US military that are amazing soldiers..    Though I am not gay myself, I find the ignorance and overall bigotry of this thread hilarious.. 

Yes that is true, and i agree.. Nevertheless the gay community is generally seen as sissy.. The game has to be fun for everyone, and not just either tolerant people or homosexuals. I dont like it that way but that is just how things are... but seriously.. think about it, Shepard + Jacob -.-