3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Endurance_117]

BrianWilly wrote...

Okay, but I still don't see why that is bad.

Perhaps Bioware wanted to avoid the controversy this time around. Again I don't know why they didn't add same sex relationships, I don't really care. But that might be a reason 

[Ninja Mage]

Yeah Endurance and Blame the Messenger are vomiting up the same bigoted tripe we discused in the last thread...why do they keep doing this

[BlameTheMessenger]

BrianWilly wrote...

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Controversy = Less copies sold

Is there any evidence of this?  I personally have never seen any indication of it; in fact, most games tend to show the opposite reaction.

Mordern Warfare 2 probably scared some people away... And GTA, go ask anybody in a quiet suburb. They will all tell you that the game is violent and disgusting, and the reason kids are being ****s... People want to blame games instead of themselves.

[jselene]

Endurance_117 wrote...

POPULARITY = CONTROVERSY

that is the point

"All press is good press" aside,  DA:O is very popular for an RPG, and the m/m option was revealed in a review
before the game was released.  It's not that Fox didn't catch on to what was happening--I mean, WND is probably one of their major sources--it's that people have moved on from this sort of thing, and freaking out about it doesn't sell.  After getting humiliated in that ME "scandal" I doubt they'd do the same for its sequal.  And even
there, it wasn't the homosexuality that freaked them out--it was that someone called it a sex simulator with rape and whatnot.  They included FemShep/Liara for the same reason they let Cavuto include Hooters girls' as commentators on the state of business in America.  >_<

Also: I'm sure most people are capable of understanding that an option is an option.  The presence of same-sex romance does not FORCE you to go through it, nor does it taint your harddrive, etc.  9_9  Most of the people who'd flip out are the ones who complain about *everything* that doesn't align with their "conservative values".  And most of them don't even play video games.

Modifié par jselene, 03 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[Ninja Mage]

Endurance_117 wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

Okay, but I still don't see why that is bad.

Perhaps Bioware wanted to avoid the controversy this time around. Again I don't know why they didn't add same sex relationships, I don't really care. But that might be a reason 

 If you don't care then stop ****ing about me wanting to **** Thane and leave the thread. You seem to ''care'' enough to deride anything having to do with homosexuality in games

[BlameTheMessenger]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

But why Liara x FemShep then?

:/

That's a lesbian relationship even if they hide under the discount lesbians excuse.

Because Liara is an asari, and there are only one gender asari's..

[Endurance_117]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Yeah Endurance and Blame the Messenger are vomiting up the same bigoted tripe we discused in the last thread...why do they keep doing this

WTF, do you even read what I post? What are you 12?

[I Pyrrhus I]

Yay! More tyranny of the minority.



Heaven forbid that someone disagree with a lifestyle choice, they must be a spiteful, evil little bigot.



Intolerance of intolerance is still...intolerant, your moral high horses don't exist.



The opposition has a right to their opinion without being labeled as haters, for some it may be an objection born of legitimate beliefs, who are you to say?



The only fair solution is compromise, you had your way in DAO, now we get our way in ME2. Thank you Bioware for being fair to both sides of the fence.

[thebuggiman]

Ninja Mage if you really dont like seeing people throw up you find it Disgusting, what if they dont like to see men on men relationships.

i really cant see the problem

[BrianWilly]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Perhaps Bioware wanted to avoid the controversy this time around. Again I don't know why they didn't add same sex relationships, I don't really care. But that might be a reason 

The supposed controversy the first time around was, if anything, far more focused on the heterosexual romances with barely any real attention placed on Liara, and yet in this game they increased the number of romances you could have.  I highly doubt Bioware give that much **** about what Fox News would (inaccurately) say about it.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 03 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[Endurance_117]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

Okay, but I still don't see why that is bad.

Perhaps Bioware wanted to avoid the controversy this time around. Again I don't know why they didn't add same sex relationships, I don't really care. But that might be a reason 

 If you don't care then stop ****ing about me wanting to **** Thane and leave the thread. You seem to ''care'' enough to deride anything having to do with homosexuality in games

12 year old detected. Grow up

[jselene]

I Pyrrhus I wrote...

Yay! More tyranny of the minority.

Heaven forbid that someone disagree with a lifestyle choice, they must be a spiteful, evil little bigot.

Intolerance of intolerance is still...intolerant, your moral high horses don't exist.

The opposition has a right to their opinion without being labeled as haters, for some it may be an objection born of legitimate beliefs, who are you to say?

The only fair solution is compromise, you had your way in DAO, now we get our way in ME2. Thank you Bioware for being fair to both sides of the fence.

So, in other words, the minority wins when both are included, the majority wins when the minority is excluded?  Ever consider that when BOTH are included, BOTH win? 

[Deviija]

Gay DudeShepard, please. There are enough asari and female aliens running around smooching on FemShep and DudeShep.

[thebuggiman]

Shepard is a bad ass saving the galaxy.. and cause of the gay stereotype it seems wrong having him as a gay person.

like what would you think if Bruce Willis in Die Hard turned out to be gay ?

[Endurance_117]

jselene wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

POPULARITY = CONTROVERSY

that is the point

"All press is good press" aside,  DA:O is very popular for an RPG,  

DA:O is popular for a Western RPG

not popular as a game, nor RPG

[baskiliskos]

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

But why Liara x FemShep then?

:/

That's a lesbian relationship even if they hide under the discount lesbians excuse.

Because Liara is an asari, and there are only one gender asari's..

Yeah, I'm sure that Liara counts as an 'either' gender romance with her beautiful, swelling breasts, thin waist and pert little butt. Those sweater puppies sure got all the gay guys goin', you know what I mean?

No matter what Liara might be in the game's story, she sexually appeals as a female, and any human would look at her and treat her as such. The Asari are also in-game referred to as female. She does not count as a universal answer for the 'gay option'. 

[Justin2k]

I find it selfish that 0.2 or so % of the ME playerbase want something tailored just for them when Bioware could use those time and resources to improve the game for 100% of the playerbase.

[BrianWilly]

thebuggiman wrote...

Shepard is a bad ass saving the galaxy.. and cause of the gay stereotype it seems wrong having him as a gay person.
like what would you think if Bruce Willis in Die Hard turned out to be gay ?

Um I personally would think it was kinda awesome...but besides that point, you yourself use the term "stereotype," as in, you know that it's not necessarily true.  Gay men and women can be badasses, and often are in real life.  Stereotypes exist to be broken, and Bioware has a decent track record of doing so.

[BlameTheMessenger]

baskiliskos wrote...

BlameTheMessenger wrote...

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

But why Liara x FemShep then?

:/

That's a lesbian relationship even if they hide under the discount lesbians excuse.

Because Liara is an asari, and there are only one gender asari's..

Yeah, I'm sure that Liara counts as an 'either' gender romance with her beautiful, swelling breasts, thin waist and pert little butt. Those sweater puppies sure got all the gay guys goin', you know what I mean?

No matter what Liara might be in the game's story, she sexually appeals as a female, and any human would look at her and treat her as such. The Asari are also in-game referred to as female. She does not count as a universal answer for the 'gay option'. 

THen accept it the hard way.... Most men will buy the game... And most men dont find a lesbian sex scene disgusting

[BlameTheMessenger]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

Axis Swordarm wrote...

Though this thread is quickly spiraling off topic, I need to step in.

There's a lot of ignorance on every thread regarding this and though it's hard for myself to get into the mindset of someone who feels same sex characters somehow degrade their play experience I can understand how conclusions are reached. It's important to say first and foremost that there is no gay agenda, I've seen posts about ramming the gay down peoples throats and I've seen simple two sentence responses that are outright prejudiced. This isn't an attempt to hammer sexuality in someones face, it's viewed by gay or bi people as something that is just normal; there is nothing sexual or seedy about relationships, you can love someone and not sleep with them.

I don't find certain women attractive, I don't find many guys attractive I still enjoy the romances in Mass Effect as a nice bit of story progression. But I can find something to relate to there, ME is an emotional series and it's only to be expected that people want to reach that deeper level of connection that many on these boards experience.

With Mass Effect there was an opportunity to normalize things, to turn the issue into acceptance. I personally wouldn't have delved into a same sex relationship because as I say I don't find many guys attractive and then it's an intellectual attachment with my tastes so narrow I've only dated a few males.

That's what people are disappointed about on one level, the opportunity for a gay gamer to play an emotionally engaging experience such as Mass Effect and get the full experience as well as not feeling marginalized or catered to specifically. There is no gay standard, they're people and people are different, Shepard could be 90 miles out of straight town and you'd never know. The reason so many masculine guys aren't out is because sociological factors lock them down, cripple them and that is why an outlet like Mass Effect has such a lure.

Imagine living your life and never being able to say to your friends what you and your beloved did over the weekend, that is what being gay is. The moment it comes up the subject turns to pushing sexuality down straight folks throats, when it's a case of acceptance and desire to live a life without judgment.

In gaming terms this means that the thousand and one ways in which the gaming community seeks to victimize anything that deviates from straight white male are incredibly harmful and Mass Effect could have been ridiculously positive. It would be saying it's ok to be who you are and you can be this galaxy saving hero and still love who you want to love.

Time and complexity for sure are factors in why it doesn't exist, I can even take the view that Shepard is straight as a character. But when you play him as your own it has attachment beyond someone like Wrex or Joker, he is your creation and you carve his path, it's totally understandable and not something crazy that people want this. Why it isn't there has been explained as time constraints and that is fair enough, the recorded dialogue shows there was a commitment to it and that actually makes me happy that the world is moving toward acceptance behind the scenes.

As for the discussion early of feminizing Shepard, you're thinking of gender and that is totally different. The assumption that only straight guys are real men is equally ludicrous, I'm 6'6'' tall, used to play rugby and am as masculine as you can get, I work in gaming and have just started working the old punching bag and I'm openly bi. Making calls like those is what is so harmful and keeps people like myself in suffering and silence while the ignorant, or closeted themselves due to such views, dehumanize us and it is something you truly should be ashamed of because it literally causes people to take their own lives.

Words hurt, many straight, white males especially online don't get this and those who are subjects who encourage them with lines like "I'm black and people should get over it" or "I'm gay and I don't mind being called a ****" misunderstand the depth of pain it causes not outright but by turning people into the other.

In summary, it would have been a beautiful and rare thing that showed gaming is truly more cutting edge than TV and films with a gay protagonist who isn't a stereotype but just a hero who likes guys, but is a missed opportunity and though the desire for it is likely not going to be reciprocated by Bioware this time, the fact dialogue was recorded gives me hope for future games.

Axis Swordarm wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

I think my main issue with it is why?

The bigger question is, why not?

Trying
to shoe horn gay people into shows or series ends up in stereotypes,
this is what causes the sensation that every gay person is a copy. 
That everyone who has ever loved someone of their same gender is either
a bull ****** or an effeminate angel wing wearing dancer. 

The
themes and scope of Mass Effect, let alone the emotional investment
offered a clear doorway to something new and fresh, exciting and truly
artistic in that it breaks boundries.  This isn't a gay character, this
is your character and it would rightfully be lauded.  Shepard would be
Shepard, his personality wouldn't change, he or she would be the gruff
wonderful character we still know but they would be richer for people
who want to be accepted.

It wouldn't mean the game changes in
anyway for omeone playing it now.  On some level I feel that Shepard
doens't have those options because he's a gruff, tough fighting machine
and it was felt that offering him the chance to have a relationship
with Kaiden would damage that image, in many ways it parallels with
real life for many gay people and instead of being liberating creates
another level of frustration.

He can be happy with a woman for
show, but his true feelings in the mind of the player aren't going to
come to fruition.  It isn't about sex, it's about empathy and
understanding, something Mass Effect generates in spades and as such
attracts such discussions which is to its credit.

TL:DR