3059 réponses à ce sujet

[Arik7]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...
Though I just came up with another potential explanation to the option's absence from the games. the voice actor of male Shepard may fear of becoming stigmatized. Male actors who play gay characters always end up being questioned if they "liked" the role - in other words, if their private life reflects it - and if they play their cards wrong they may end up typecasted for the rest of their careers, not to mention possible personal problems. I hope that's not the case though, and that the issue doesn't touch video game voice actors.

Mark Meer did record M/M romance dialog for ME1 (with Kaidan).  The audio files are on the disk, but are not used in game.  However, the files can be accessed if you alter gender in a save file.  www.youtube.com/watch

I suspect the ME team was trying to avoid controversy after the FOX nonsense.  In my opinon, all of the romance scenes are underwhelming in ME2.   The ME team should learn from the DAO team and do what is right and fair to the fans. 

I know you just didn't say DAO's romance scenes were good 

I would have prefered the DAO scenes without the underwear, but the implication was more interesting than anything ME2 has to offer.

Modifié par Arik7, 05 février 2010 - 01:39 .

[Justin2k]

jeffindenver wrote...

Gay romance adds much for a number of players and takes nothing from anyone else. 

Time and Resources (writing staff, voice talent, artwork, animation) used on gay romance  that could add for a number of playerscould be used to benefit a larger number of players, including those who would enjoy this content.

For instance, lets say instead of a gay romance they use the same time and effort to create a CGI space battle scene or add an additional questline, subplot etc etc.  That would benefit the gay community and the rest of the players.  But having homosexual scenes only really benefits the gay community.  Therefore it does effectively take away from others. 

[Arik7]

Justin2k wrote...

jeffindenver wrote...

Gay romance adds much for a number of players and takes nothing from anyone else. 

Time and Resources (writing staff, voice talent, artwork, animation) used on gay romance  that could add for a number of playerscould be used to benefit a larger number of players, including those who would enjoy this content.

For instance, lets say instead of a gay romance they use the same time and effort to create a CGI space battle scene or add an additional questline, subplot etc etc.  That would benefit the gay community and the rest of the players.  But having homosexual scenes only really benefits the gay community.  Therefore it does effectively take away from others. 

Okay, why waste recourses on voice acting and animations for the female Shepard?   Why not just add some large-breasted women with lightsabers instead? 

Your argument is flawed.  Sci-fi fans are already interested in the Mass Effect games, with or without star battles.  Same-sex romance options would attract the gay/bi people and heteros who prefer to play as the opposite sex.   Some countries, like Bioware's native Canada, specifically advertize tourism to the gay community, because they know there is a significant market for it.  The ME team should appeal to different types of people.

[Endurance_117]

Arik7 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...
Though I just came up with another potential explanation to the option's absence from the games. the voice actor of male Shepard may fear of becoming stigmatized. Male actors who play gay characters always end up being questioned if they "liked" the role - in other words, if their private life reflects it - and if they play their cards wrong they may end up typecasted for the rest of their careers, not to mention possible personal problems. I hope that's not the case though, and that the issue doesn't touch video game voice actors.

Mark Meer did record M/M romance dialog for ME1 (with Kaidan).  The audio files are on the disk, but are not used in game.  However, the files can be accessed if you alter gender in a save file.  www.youtube.com/watch

I suspect the ME team was trying to avoid controversy after the FOX nonsense.  In my opinon, all of the romance scenes are underwhelming in ME2.   The ME team should learn from the DAO team and do what is right and fair to the fans. 

I know you just didn't say DAO's romance scenes were good 

I would have prefered the DAO scenes without the underwear, but the implication was more interesting than anything ME2 has to offer.

lol no, you've never has sex have you?

[Lightice_av]

But having homosexual scenes only really benefits the gay community. Therefore it does effectively take away from others.

As has been gone through before, you're heavily exaggerating the time and costs needed for a single romance path. It's nothing even near a gameplay feature, or a major scene like a space battle. It's more like the resources of one N7 mission, and would you ever notice that one that might have been there is missing? Dragon Age most certainly didn't lack anything despite of the inclusion of the option.

[Arik7]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...
Though I just came up with another potential explanation to the option's absence from the games. the voice actor of male Shepard may fear of becoming stigmatized. Male actors who play gay characters always end up being questioned if they "liked" the role - in other words, if their private life reflects it - and if they play their cards wrong they may end up typecasted for the rest of their careers, not to mention possible personal problems. I hope that's not the case though, and that the issue doesn't touch video game voice actors.

Mark Meer did record M/M romance dialog for ME1 (with Kaidan).  The audio files are on the disk, but are not used in game.  However, the files can be accessed if you alter gender in a save file.  www.youtube.com/watch

I suspect the ME team was trying to avoid controversy after the FOX nonsense.  In my opinon, all of the romance scenes are underwhelming in ME2.   The ME team should learn from the DAO team and do what is right and fair to the fans. 

I know you just didn't say DAO's romance scenes were good 

I would have prefered the DAO scenes without the underwear, but the implication was more interesting than anything ME2 has to offer.

lol no, you've never has sex have you?

Don't be silly.... I'm 27 y.o....

[Justin2k]

Lightice_av wrote...

As has been gone through before, you're heavily exaggerating the time and costs needed for a single romance path. It's nothing even near a gameplay feature, or a major scene like a space battle. It's more like the resources of one N7 mission, and would you ever notice that one that might have been there is missing?

Even so, everyone, 100% of the player base would partake and enjoy an extra N7 mission.
How much % of the playerbase would partake and enjoy a same sex relationship?

It's just selfish for a minority to want a feature that only they will enjoy.  If someone with cancer campaigned about having a cancer stricken character in the game you'd think it was ridiculous.  And there is probably more cancer sufferers than gay people play Mass Effect in all honesty.

As i said previously, if 95% of players were gay, there wouldn't be straight relationships.  It just doesn't make sense to tailor this game to gay people.  Its a sci fi shooter adventure and most everyone playing it is a straight male.

Also this thread is insulting.  If I made a "straight Shepard" thread it would be closed immediately and if i made another i would be banned.

Modifié par Justin2k, 05 février 2010 - 02:05 .

[Lightice_av]

Its a sci fi shooter adventure and most everyone playing it is a straight white male.

What you are consistently ignoring is that game (or any) marketing does not limit to primary demography. Every media has a peripheral demography, who are also taken into account in designing the product, and will provide a wider customer base for the product. This is why FemShep exists. This is why the game is an RPG shooter, and not a shooter. You could just as well argue that the extensive attention to the dialogue options should be switched to more shooter levels in order to appeal to the shooter demograpgy more.

It's not selfish for a minority to seek to be cartered as well, if they prove themselves a significant enough a minority to add to the customer base. If a peripheral demography is attracted, the game will sell more than it would to the primary demography alone, and in result the budget for the following games can increase, as well. Widen your perspective from your monolithic view into the wider range of target demographies, and you understand why cartering to the minorities can be a good business choice. 

Please ignore that post...please guys. I don't want this thread to be locked especially after Chris went through the trouble of moderating it for us.

He was more civil this time than before. I'll give him the benefit of doubt, even though I don't agree with him any more than before.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 05 février 2010 - 02:10 .

[Facetank]

This thread mainly shows the ignorance of many people and how they think gays act. They are not all Fruity, Effeminant, Pansies or Flamers, just like all straght guys are HURRR I LIKE FOOTBALL AND WOMEN ARE OBJECTS HURRR. Grow up, so what if Shep could be gay, no one is forcing you to play him that way.
Plus, would Shep pushing a merc out a window be any less cool if he liked men? No, you just are too ignorant to think out of your bigoted bubble.

[Arik7]

Justin2k

Its a sci fi shooter adventure and most everyone playing it is a straight white male

Then, using you logic, being a female Shepard or non-white Shepard should not be an option? You really don't understand how marketing works. The product must appeal to a wide variety of people.

Modifié par Arik7, 05 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[Lightice_av]

Lightice_av wrote...

I did not post that, but the guy I debated against. I'm on your side.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 05 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[Justin2k]

Lightice_av wrote...
 Widen your perspective from your monolithic view into the wider range of target demographies, and you understand why cartering to the minorities can be a good business choice. 

This makes sense.  Although what you are forgetting is that something such as this could turn straight people away from the game.  Especially the shooter 15-16 year old crowd who would be "oh you turned shepard gay, i don't want to play a gay game".  Enchanted Arms sold extremely badly mostly (besides it not being very good) because it put you with a very camp party member from the outset.  There are people who do not want this shoved in their faces.

There is probably far more of these people playing this game than those who would actually want a gay Shepard.

Besides Shepard has gone 2 games without being gay.  It would be far better for the gay community for ME3 to feature an openly gay character than to turn Shepard gay.  That serves no purpose but to butcher an already established main character just to make a small % of the playerbase happy.  Remember even Female Shepard/Liara is a straight relationship.  Liara is not female.

Modifié par Justin2k, 05 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[Arik7]

Lightice_av wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

I did not post that, but the guy I debated against. I'm on your side.

I know..... formatting error.... Sorry, buddy...

[Skemte]

Justin2k wrote...

jeffindenver wrote...

Gay romance adds much for a number of players and takes nothing from anyone else. 

Time and Resources (writing staff, voice talent, artwork, animation) used on gay romance  that could add for a number of playerscould be used to benefit a larger number of players, including those who would enjoy this content.

For instance, lets say instead of a gay romance they use the same time and effort to create a CGI space battle scene or add an additional questline, subplot etc etc.  That would benefit the gay community and the rest of the players.  But having homosexual scenes only really benefits the gay community.  Therefore it does effectively take away from others. 

  We can say this for just about every feature within the game.. Why have romance options in general? Why have lesbian relationships and no male homosexual relationships..  Why make female character have romances with compeltely alien characters? (Drells and Taurians)..

[Lightice_av]

Especially the shooter 15-16 year old crowd who would be "oh you turned shepard gay, i don't want to play a gay game".

Not only are they legally forbidden from playing the game in the first place, and thus don't belong in the official prediction charts, but they aren't likely to even realize that the option is there. I know people who knew that DAO had one despite of being as subtle as a ton of bricks. There is no need to shove the option on anyone's face - make it easily avoidable, and that's it.

That serves no purpose but to butcher an already established character just to make a small % of the playerbase happy.

I don't quite understand why widening a character's potential sexual orientation could be considered "butchering". All the romance options are the player's personal choices. You can choose to play them or skip them entirely. Everybody's Shepard is unique, and there are many possible justifications for the option both in and off game.



Don't try to start the old debate cycle again, if you're smart. You'll just get yourself banned. You've made your case clear, and you've been responded. Unless you have something entirely new to add, it's time for you to step off the stage.



Goodnight. I'm going to sleep.

[Homebound]

If you want to play a gay/lesbian Shepard, then go for it. But I think people are missing the fact that the majority of the characters in Mass Effect are NOT gay or lesbian. It wouldnt be fair to these characters to suddenly have them "switch sides". It degrades the game, it degrades the story, and it degrades the characters.



Just my 2 cents.

[Arik7]

Lightice_av wrote...

Especially the shooter 15-16 year old crowd who would be "oh you turned shepard gay, i don't want to play a gay game".

Not only are they legally forbidden from playing the game in the first place, and thus don't belong in the official prediction charts, but they aren't likely to even realize that the option is there. I know people who knew that DAO had one despite of being as subtle as a ton of bricks. There is no need to shove the option on anyone's face - make it easily avoidable, and that's it.

That serves no purpose but to butcher an already established character just to make a small % of the playerbase happy.

I don't quite understand why widening a character's potential sexual orientation could be considered "butchering". All the romance options are the player's personal choices. You can choose to play them or skip them entirely. Everybody's Shepard is unique, and there are many possible justifications for the option both in and off game.

Don't try to start the old debate cycle again, if you're smart. You'll just get yourself banned. You've made your case clear, and you've been responded. Unless you have something entirely new to add, it's time for you to step off the stage.

Goodnight. I'm going to sleep.

THIS ^^^

[Skemte]

Just_mike wrote...

If you want to play a gay/lesbian Shepard, then go for it. But I think people are missing the fact that the majority of the characters in Mass Effect are NOT gay or lesbian. It wouldnt be fair to these characters to suddenly have them "switch sides". It degrades the game, it degrades the story, and it degrades the characters.

Just my 2 cents.

  Except in Mass Effect 1 you could two lesbian encounters with a team member and the asari consort..   Furthermore Jack lead on to say that she was bisexual in her dialogue....  

[Justin2k]

Lightice_av wrote...

Especially the shooter 15-16 year old crowd who would be "oh you turned shepard gay, i don't want to play a gay game".

Not only are they legally forbidden from playing the game in the first place, and thus don't belong in the official prediction charts, but they aren't likely to even realize that the option is there.

Not going to argue with you on your pro-gay points as you will not be swayed.  But Mass Effect 1 and 2 have a 15 rating, at least in the united kingdom.  Those people would be far more of a loss to sales than any new customers gained from gay relationships would be a gain.  Most gay people who will play ME are already playing it regardless of not having the option.  Turning Shepard gay in the middle of a franchise would lose customers not gain them.  If they did what they did with DA:O and had it that way from the beginning it would be more accepted.

Please accept there are people who do not want a gay Shepard, there are people who do not want bioware to waste resources on this and there are people who do not feel that everyone should be gay and every piece of media should be gay influenced.

Modifié par Justin2k, 05 février 2010 - 02:28 .

[Homebound]

Lightice_av wrote...


I don't quite understand why widening a character's potential sexual orientation could be considered "butchering". All the romance options are the player's personal choices.

First one must ask, is this particular character the type of person to widen his or her potential sexual orientation? 

Let me put it this way.

Who is more likely to put a bullet in your leg just for kicks?  Zaeed or Tali?

[JoshuaMast]

I'm pretty sure nobody will read this, but I'm going to list a few reasons as why this will probably never be implemented.



1. Bad Press. the news stations will eat this up, and it'll be spun negatively, no matter how tasteful Bioware presents it.



2. Small Demographic. I don't have any statistics on this, but I'm guessing less then 20% of all gamers are homosexuals. ( probably smaller )



3. Money. The amount of money required to include this in ME 3 would be staggering, and I'll explain why.



- You have to pay the writer(s) for the gay story lines (including inevitable rewrites), say about 3-5 story arcs, including what should be a final conclusion at the end of the game.



-You have to pay for the voice actors for dialogue (some may charge more for gay content).



-You have to pay the animators for each dialogue sequence, love scene and final epilogue shot



-Then you have to pay for bug fixes



-There are also small little details that could add to all this, like if they take off the armor, will they show the skin beneath? who will texture the skin? who will model it? someone has to light the love scene and somebody has to use the in-game camera to "film" the scene.



All this adds to a LOT of money and probable negative press for content aimed at a small demographic. In other words High Risk-Low Reward.



I'm not a gay basher. I have three gay family members and they're some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

[Arik7]

Just_mike wrote...

If you want to play a gay/lesbian Shepard, then go for it. But I think people are missing the fact that the majority of the characters in Mass Effect are NOT gay or lesbian. It wouldnt be fair to these characters to suddenly have them "switch sides". It degrades the game, it degrades the story, and it degrades the characters.

Just my 2 cents.

Is anybody proposing to make the majority of the characters gay.    Most people  here just want AN option for same-sex romance.   That would be a significant improvement already, although customizing your squad members would only make the game more enjoyable for everybody.

Modifié par Arik7, 05 février 2010 - 02:30 .